When choosing new Speakers, what matters most to you?

Vega. Cool.

My friend in high school had a Vega with a balanced and blueprinted 400. Rear end was shortened and tubbed. That thing moved…

I just now moved my speakers upstairs in the large living room from the basement which was my man cave. We sold the pool table we never use. The reason they were not at their full potential is their wide dispersion. They sound fan f ing tastic in the new space. So I would add dispersion to the things to consider. I have them listed for sale now and they are staying! Very happy although I can rarely crank them now! Double edged sword. 

How amenable to modification. Its a mystery to me how few speakers optimized by factory.

Simple for me, I want real live, flesh and blood performers in my room.

@imhififan, I can put 20.7s in a closet and make then sound good. The only limit on speaker size is the width of the door. Computer speakers in a department store will certainly not work well.

Specifications and measurements are two entirely separate issues. Specifications can lie, measurements do not. How many of you out there in Audiogon Land actually measure your systems? 

A loudspeaker's design will tell you a lot about how it functions in certain respects. It will not tell you how it sounds.

A loudspeaker will sound different in two different rooms because the rooms sound different.

In thinking about my own experience, I just bought a new pair of loudspeakers and I had never been in the same room with a pair. Not only this but I had them built to a specification that had never been done before. Fortunately, they are performing beyond all expectation. I have done similar experiments before resulting in total failure. Experience is the best teacher. In truth I have had decades of experience with similar loudspeakers so I knew exactly how they would perform. This is determined by the physical characteristics of the speaker. I was not worried about how they sounded because I can make them sound however I like. But, if a speaker can not image no amount of monkeying around is going to get it to do so.

You have to determine what you expect out of a loudspeaker and  the physical characteristics such a speaker should have. The way a speaker images, the size of it's sound stage, the way it radiates sound are not accidental. They are by design.

A speaker's frequency response will vary wildly from one room to the next. In this day and age with DSP amplitude, time and phase are easy to deal with. You measure and tell the computer what you want it to do. 

Expectations are different. I expect a system to be able to simulate the sound and sensations of a live performance given the right program source and with any genre. A system that struggles to get down to 40 Hz can not do this. It is missing an entire octave!  3dB down at 40 Hz/1 meter is 10 dB down at 4 meters. So much for bass. Only line source arrays produce life sized images and they are inherently more efficient radiators of sound into the environment. They sound more powerful. The room is much less important to a line source dipole. They radiate in a very specific and predictable pattern and positioned correctly have far less interaction with the room. You hear more of the music and less of the room. Only horns are as predictable. 

djones51

Only the 67-69 Z-28s Chevrolets Camaro used this "Special High Performance" engine package. It was intended to cement their advantaging in the SCCA Road Racing Series that required no more than 305 cu. in. maximums. Chevrolet used a 283 Crankshaft with a 350 cu in Bore. This combination came out 302. The short stroke, big bore package was much faster revving and accelerating than their 305 engines that were made for street cars. They also incorporated a Duntov 30/30 solid lifter camshaft and underrated it (deliberately) to 290 HP so the young kids buying them could afford the insurance cost.

Hope this cleans up your confusion

I thought GM used 305' cu in , Ford the 302. I had a 68 SS 396 Camaro. 

tomic601

No. All I have is pictures of both those Z-28’s. I bought the first one with paper route money and drove it to high school. That 302 cu in engine made a lot of noise but was only a 14 second car. So, I talked my dad into letting me buy a crate engine.. a 427/430 L-88 and install in that car. Before it was over it had 4.88 gears, Hayes aluminum flywheel, Lakewood traction bars, Hooker Headers. Can you imagine letting your kid drive that animal to HS? It ran 11.88 @ 116 and in its day, on those little tires it was a wicked SOB.. The hardest part to believe is a paper route had the buying power to purchase such neat things. We grew up in the best of times, didn’t we?

I never buy NEW! Only used - and quality vintage! Altec, AR, Coral, Dahlquist, DCM, EPI, Infinity,JansZen, JBL, Klipsch, KLH, Ohm, Quad, Rectilinear, Rogers, Sansui, Snell, Spreakerlab, Wharfedale ... I have various models on hand! Not much interest in present day stuff!

@nitrobob did you keep the early Z ? good on ya, nice collection ! My Dad worked at New Departure H…. we had no lack for super precision bearings ;-)

I am a drifting Robot burning up Caddy tires, my teacher is Hunter S

Jim

ghasley

No not a Cosworth. But you obviously know your way around cars, not many people knew about them. Amazingly that old slime green Vega is the car I met my wife in. I knew she was a keeper as anybody that was driving THAT thing certainly didn't have much income. She sure as heck wasn't after me for my money! LOL .

But it did have a pair of "Mind Blower" Speakers in the back. Maybe it was the future audiophile in me she was after .. Ha Ha 

@nitrobob 

#19 on your list....a Cossie?

cindyment

Your right. You need to let people buy how they want to insead of being critical. The thread was labeled "what is your requirements" ... I listed mine, and you don't like them. I don't tell you how to buy, and  I sure a hell won't be critical or condescending towards others that don't view my requirements, but you just did me. Let's move on ...,

@nitrobob , started to type a response, but too many threads are going off the rail with politics. I suggest starting a new thread. I will just say that I support local when possible, but I will not reward incompetence long term. At some point "support local" turns into "abuse my good will". I won't accept the latter.

there is no one single aspect. For me there are three: precise timbre, precise soundstage and lifelike dynamics. apparently those qualities do not translate well to measurements because i owned a pair dynaudio contour 60 which measure right... but they sound timbrically completely wrong and sound stage is completely messy.

CINDYMENT,

"Why did you have to ruin his day by telling him the truth about all the foreign cars he had purchased and drove.
I grew up in a GM town, went to school and am good friends with all the union assemblers and I will tell you that I never have and never will buy a vehicle that they had their hands on."

"Even they will tell you that 75% of gm vehicles are now built in Mexico and Canada in non union plants."

You’re going to tell someone that has been a lifetime union member, and President for the last 10 years of a 46-year career (before retiring) about what has happened to the labor movement? LOL Your funny.. I lived it. Just look over my lifetime of car purchases and you will soon understand that if everyone had myself and wife’s buying requirements (Including Speakers !) America would not be flat on its ass to China, Japan, and 3^rd world markets. Try and find one car in this list that is not American built, by American Unionized workers and with all the Profits going back to an American owned Company. Please preach to someone that has not held the line, because I have. I’m 65 now, and I will keep doing what I’m doing as it’s how I was raised. Too late to change now… These are my lifetime of 19 cars and trucks, my wife could produce 19 of hers, but you get the point.

1. 1963 Dodge Polara (Slant-6)
2. 2) 1964 Plymouth Newport
3. 3) 1966 Dodge Polara
4. 4)1969 Z-28 Camaro (Gold)
5. 1969 Z-28 Rally Sport (Silver)
6. 1968 Chevrolet Impala Wagon
7. 1970 Cadillac Deville
8. 1973 Corvette L-82
9. 1984 Dodge window Van
10. 1984 Z-28 Camaro
11. 1985 Iroc Camaro
12. 1976 Ford Coachman MH E-450
13. 1986 Lingenfelter Corvette 383 Package
14. 1994 Chevrolet Cavalier
15. 1998 Chevrolet Cavalier
16. 2009 Chevrolet Malibu LT
17. 2010 Chevrolet Malibu LTZ
18. 2017 Chrysler Pacifica Limited (Built in Canada by UAW workers)
19. 1976 Chevrolet Vega 5 Speed

https://www.decware.com/paper49.htm....Hi Efficient speakers explained by an expert....Steve Deckert from Decware....

How the speakers sound in my space. I will never buy a pair of speakers that I cannot audition at home.

Dynamics, tonality, and flat response. Not a stickler for dead flat but some speakers with large deviations from flat may sound amazing on some kinds of music but won’t be a good all-arounder IME. 
 

im a robot

Disregarding brands and types of speakers, I will go for the ones that make an instrument sound like it is in the room with you. Any acoustic instrument recorded well should sound lifelike.  These are the speakers made for extended listening sessions.

Even they will tell you that 75% of gm vehicles are now built in mexico and canada in non union plants.

Do you believe everything you are told?  Most GM vehicles sold in the US are manufactured in the US. Not all, but >50%. I don't have a handle on Mexico, but would expect, and a quick Google indicates all or close to all of their facilities in Canada are union shops. GM has the highest percentage of US content in its US made vehicles. GM sell AND makes more cars in China that the US now. For clarity, they are sold and made there.

Passenger car MFG is moving out of the US and Canada because the sales are not there, and overall costs are lowest near your customers. Mexico can ownership is growing. Pickups and SUVs, are where the sales are in the US, and there is still strong MFG in the USA of those.

Another point, is it is best to look at dollars, not total numbers. It is lower cost vehicles being shifted into production in the Mexico and other lower cost centers, higher dollar vehicles not so much.

for those who don’t get all the braincells washed by Faux, try reading a few books..

I would suggest :

The Reckoning by David Halberstam

and 

Boom, Bust, Exodus: The Rust Belt, Maquilas and a tale of two cities by Chad Broughton

or

Factoryman by Beth Macy

of course, these are nuanced, detailed and not the polarizing crap you have been fed.

And yes, i have managed in both union and other shops with up to 5k team members. I live by the saying “ you get the union you deserve “…

While Tesla might pay well, Elon certainly chaffed at recogniz8ng the danger of Covid. You can’t buy safety.

They have to sound like live music..... and horns do that for me.    Don't really care about specs.... how do they sound is more important 

I called up the chick with the Stradavarius….said I’ ll have what you got, but in Audi Phantom Black Pearl…

Another in a series of agenda driven, self serving questions… 

BTW, while i own 7 pairs of speakers, my favorites measure great, win awards and come from a reputable made in USA company in business since 1977. 

@cindyment

Why did you have to ruin his day by telling him the truth about all the foreign cars he had purchased and drove.
I grew up in a GM town, went to school and am good friends with all the union assemblers and I will tell you that I never have and never will buy a vehicle that they had their hands on.

Even they will tell you that 75% of gm vehicles are now built in mexico and canada in non union plants.

I bought the speaker that I liked and then built my system around them. I know the sound I like and as soon as I heard Vandersteen’s I stopped looking. I then went on the journey to put the rest of the system in place. We all know the journey never ends and is a wild but fun ride. Never forget to find the time to enjoy the music!

A well known brand for sure. American made is great but not a deal breaker. We make very very good speakers in USA but you all know this. Matching the amp I have to the speakers, synergy is a must. If it is not smooth, efficient, non-distortion at high levels, etc... I move on quickly. The British brands have a few nice products . I wish I could try some quad amps and speakers some day, so good! 

How close the speakers are at portraying the live event, whether it be a chamber ensemble, symphony orchestra, intimate jazz performance, or an outdoor rock concert.  No speaker that I've run into can replicate that spectrum perfectly - there are always compromises with any design choice.

Only two speakers I've encountered that got close to ONE of those aforementioned mile markers:

Wilson WATT/Puppy 5s reproducing Horowitz on stage

Dunlavy SC-IV/As playing an acoustic performance of "Hotel California".

That said - the Wilson wasn't able to "do live" as well as the Dunlavy; and that speaker had a hard time not getting "gritty" with solo instrument performances.

Just  answering the title of the thread.....The Trim & Cover.  Only Magnepan for me, so there aren't a lot of choices beyond the size of the room.  😆   

The real choice is designing a room to build around a set of 20.7

Wide band/Full  Midrange speakers only for me. 

Nothing else, I want fidelity

Bass/low frequency response, since it is one of the most difficult characteristics to get right in a passive speaker system.

For me it's how they sound at low volume for extended listening sessions.(3-5 hrs) I have little intrest in 'blast volume'. You can't get concert levels in most rooms due to limitations in room shape, height to and depth. Set your speaker outdoors and tell me how they image. They don't. Do you listen at different volumes? Does the image change? Your ears adjust after awhile at low volume rather than getting numb. I adjust my system with a sniffer of DJ 1942 and some comfortable slippers.

Noske..

I actually demoed the Tekton Double Impacts and liked the Legacys much better. Not slamming the Tektons, they were ok, but there was something about that tweeter array that sounded goofed up to me. Could not really put my finger on it, but it wasn’t for me.

ted_denney

Ted I know all about Tesla. Just spent some time in one last week as my son has one and visited us during Thanksgiving. But I won’t buy one if unionized shops have something comparable. I’m seriously looking at a new Electric Powered Pickup Truck. The new Ford 150 looks pretty amazing.

And more power to Tesla. That is exactly how you keep unions out! Match or EXCEED union contracts!

@nitrobob what about Tesla? They offer better pay and benefits than all current UAW contracts, so a better compensation and benefits package for their workers who are not paying union fees (tax) to the UAW who would otherwise provide them less pay and benefits than Tesla does. Or is this about union solidarity over higher benefits and pay for workers? Tesla also has the highest percentage of American sourced parts of any automobile manufacturer in North America.

@nitrobob I understand Tekton speakers sound very good and well regarded on this forum and, importantly, meet some of your patriotic preferences.

So yes, speakers (and anything else) are included. ...To me, who made it, and what country owns the company that made it is important and at the top of my requirements.

Noske

Is that aimed at me? My wife makes all her own clothes, so that’s not an issue. LOL.. But if I bring her nonunion jap crap as gifts in any form, I’ll be getting a ration of @#**T. After having a husband that was Union President UE Local 718 Lancaster Ohio for 36 years, she knows and remembers who’s paying for our pension, healthcare and most importantly, our lifestyle. So yes, speakers (and anything else) are included. Don’t worry, there are only 10 % of the USA unionized and after were all dead it will be a non-issue. To me, who made it, and what country owns the company that made it is important and at the top of my requirements.

That being said, sometimes there are none available with the above standards, but I always make sure I try ..

Phew, I’m relieved that this is just about buying speakers. Try buying intimate apparel for one’s significant other without knowing measurements.

Women know this fact intuitively, of course.

cindyment

"Used to drive a Toyota Camry. It had more American content than any other car manufactured at the time."

You must have missed that part about UNION made. That was a two-part requirement of mine for Automobiles, not one. And every dime of that Camerys profit goes back to Japan. I don’t send that country a dime if don’t have to, especially when it not necessary.

Accuracy.  Do the speakers reproduce EXACTLY what you feed them?

With Magnepan products, the answer is YES.

With other products, the answer is NO.

Crystal clean high frequency tweeters. I like domes as they are not as placement finicky. Good linear bass response that you can feel when you add volume. I also am a fan of front ports to enable the speakers to be placed close to the wall. I also like the "live sound" that speakers like JBL provide. Just makes the music seem more real. Good for toe tapping. I like speakers that make me move.

1. Flat frequency response on axis, and (as much as possible) off axis.
2. Reproduces the full range of audible frequencies.
3. Cardioid dispersion pattern to minimize rear and side reflections.
4. Holographic - speakers should 'dissapear' so with closed eyes you can't pinpoint (by ear) from where the sound is coming.
5. Aesthetics/placement/approval factor

For me, these should be the philosophical pillars of every speaker maker.

I find that listening to a full range of well recorded human voice (spoken word) is very revealing of colorations and crossover issues. If a speaker passes the test: you can make yourself believe you are listening to a live voice, it’s going to do well on all kinds of music.

For most speakers, I find, you know within 10 seconds you are listening to the kind kind of electronically reproduced voice that you could never confuse with a live person’s.

Also listening to the treble/soprano sections of naturally recorded choral music -- (Faure’s Requiem [Kings College Choir] I use often), or Paul Desmond’s sax on Time Out tracks, is very revealing of upper range crossover smoothness, and colorations.

Good speakers are revealing of less than perfect recordings. Music that can sound lively and sweet on cheaper speakers can sound un-engaging on really good speakers. But then listen to, say, Diana Krall’s "Walflower" and then you hear what you are paying for.

I had pair of ProAc EBS studios for about 30 years. Just sold those and now have an ATC set up. Very happy.

(a) price, (b) appearance (can I stand to look at it long-term), (c) size (will it fit, reasonably, in the target space), (d) compatibility with existing electronics, at least short-term, (e) can I live with the tweeter long-term, or will it give me ear burn?, (f) does it accomplish my upgrade goals? (g) (probably equally weighed with (a)) sonics

The only thing I don't understand is the type of speaker people listen to. Why on earth would a speaker that sounded great when I was 30, sound worse at 67? That's just it for me, they don't. They still sound great, why keep looking. I know what certain drivers sound like. Even if something is wrong, usually I know how to fix certain kinds of drivers to sound right for me. 

I also know there are cone and voice coil drivers that sound good, but there is always something missing unless I use at least a ring driver/ dome or better yet small push/pull planars or ribbons.. It's the speed that I'm use to and like so much.
I like soft domes in a LS or a single too. A good A/B valve amp don't hurt either. :-)

Regards

"When auditioning new speakers have you ever listened to a pair you thought you really liked only to realize you didn’t like them at all after seeing their measurements/specifications? "

No! Why on earth would I do that? If they sound good, they sound good, end of story. Sites like ASR look at numbers and not at sounds.

I don’t care how it measures if I don’t like the way it sounds. And if I like the way it sounds then why do I care how it measures. It’s not like I have the option to EQ my ears and I doubt they have a flat curve.

The most important spec is price. Why torture or tease yourself with options grossly out of reach? Likewise, you can’t just ignore amplification because if the speakers require different amps then that needs to be in the budget. Reviews and subjective evaluations are much more likely to pique my interest than any measurement can. But they’re also less likely to deter me if I’m already interested. Confirmation bias is human nature. We look for data to support the conclusion that we want.

Bottom line is I’m going to check price and amp compatibility (as relates to price) before anything else, and then look for reviews because I don’t have any experience correlating specs to whether or not a snare hit, cello, or vocal is going to sound right. 

1. DESIGN. I don't mean that they 'look kool' but rather that they look like they were shaped by an honest sonic objective and that everything...every element defers to that objective. I'm a big fan of Tannoy Legacy and Klipsch Heritage. Timeless design in the broadest sense of the word. Lastly, I need to look at it and it needs to looks interesting.

2. EFFICIENCY + IMPEDANCE. Both together need to be easy. I want more than 91db efficiency and no less than a 4ohm dip. 

3. BIG DRIVERS. I now less prefer small speakers with high excursion and prefer large surfaces producing effortless, velvety bass even at very low volumes.

4. FULL RANGE RESPONSE. I like the simplicity of not having subwoofers. So the LF response needs to reach below 40hz.

5. ADJUSTMENTS FOR HF. I have an 8k notch (loss) in my left ear. My Tannoys allow me to juice the left tweeter a tad to make up for it. This is an amazing feature for someone like me.

When you buy them what are you going to do with them.  Listen to them.  I therefore suggest you listen to them. Specifications are very unlikely to tell you what they sound like, even if they are an honest and accurate presentation, which many specifications are not.

“Auditioning” some speakers as I write this. (Sort of…)

Ive had a speaker design in mind for a while, ordered the parts, built the enclosure and spent several days tweaking  the crossover and damping. They are at a point now where I need to listen to them for a while to see what is missing and what is bothering me.

No measurements as of yet. There was obviously some math that needed to be done prior to any of this happening based on specs of the driver and the components. Since CV19 happened I’ve built at least 3 dozen pairs of speakers. I’ve been working towards the pair I am currently listening to. 

Not sure I really care how they measure, but I will be doing detailed measurements as I may take them to market. (Which is what the last year and a half has been about - building, listening and trying things)

So, the question is timely for me as I met with my business partner earlier today and discussed what I thought the problem with the the sound presentation was. He didn’t hear anything out of place, and I explained what I thought was off and how I planned to address it.  Then we discussed measurements and what to do if they measured terribly. Am I all of a sudden not going to like them? Does it invalidate what I’ve worked towards, designing and building a speaker that I, and everyone who has listened to them,  really enjoy?

Emotional resonance, tonal presence, contrast, clarity, balance, physicality and impact are what I listen for. Do they present an engaging image of the recording? Not a live performance, but rather the recording.

Much study has gone into these, but in the end it’s about how they sound. I have never bought speakers based on measurements beyond the basics of sensitivity, impedance and size. 

detailed specs are a great guide but they only go so far for me. i MUST be IN THE ROOM with the speakers, playing MY music ONLY, what i am familiar with. if it sounds musical but doesn’t image well, FAIL. if it images like 3D holography but sounds bad, FAIL. gotta be the whole package, with imaging AND great sound [with a notably luxurious never-flagging EASE] that never fatigues, never is edgy even with harsh-sounding material IOW it doesn’t make edgy-sounding stuff more edgy. the system must make low-level signals clearly audible with no straining to hear. my present system using Thiel cs.5 speakers does this, and before that my maggies did it. the energy 22 pros had it about like my thiels. the snell class A [revised] had it. a speaker i couldn’t afford or even have room for, the magnapan tympani IIIs, they had it in spades. so to answer the OP’s query, it can’t just be one thing. obviously, if the speaker is a 2-ohm power drainer and amp wrecker, it is disqualified no matter how otherwise splendidly it performs as i can’t afford a krell monster amp or its ilk. so there are practical considerations as well.