When choosing new Speakers, what matters most to you?
When auditioning new speakers have you ever listened to a pair you thought you really liked only to realize you didn’t like them at all after seeing their measurements/specifications? And I’m not talking about speakers that would be too difficult for your electronics to drive but rather, you just didn’t like their waterfall plot, or their frequency response or some other measurement even though subjectively, you loved the way they sounded? Conversely have you ever listened to a pair of speakers you did not care for only to change your mind after seeing their specs?
Assuming speakers can be easily driven by your home electronics, in other words, no compatibility issues related to sensitivity or impedance, what is the single most important thing you look for when finding speakers you’ll enjoy listening to? How do you go about confirming the speakers you buy will be enjoyable to listen to in your home system?
Good thread although I got confused, more than normal, with the buy American and auto sub-discussions. Entertaining but not necessarily helpful to select speakers🙂!
Comments were made more than once that the speaker needs to fit the room and that specs are important.
How do you review specs and graphs to understand if a speaker will fit in a room?
I believe someone mentioned waterfall graphs and I am not sure what those tell me and if they are part of the "fit the room" discussion?
A good transient response, good bandwidth (flat to 40Hz at least), excellent timbral quality, pleasing or at least unobtrusive looks, seamless crossover, freedom from sibilance, and good dynamics.
If I'm spending more than £3000, and it certainly looks like I will have to if I'm hoping to get any upgrade from my Tannoy Berkeley's, then an exemplary spec sheet is also a must (esp dispersion/radiation patterns).
Loudspeaker upgrades are notoriously difficult affairs. It would be very easy to go around in circles I'm sure.
If I had to chose only one quality, then it would have to be that they don't annoy.
Close to full range as possible for me, if appropriate for the space.
Like others have said, check measurements after you audition, then forget about the measurements. The pied pipers of measurements are brain-locked into a reactionary cult that despises personal emotional response to equipment. F em.
Driving a Camaro once was balls out fun. The drag coefficient vis a vis a Taycan doesn't mean sh*t.
Good morning.. I heard these at a show a couple of years earlier. When I sold my Vonschweikert speakers and moved to a smaller room, I wanted something efficient and smaller that fit the room and worked with lower powered amps. I also liked the hardwoods and craftsmanship that these bespoke speakers had. They are also truly efficient as described. Natural sounding and allow all my changes upstream to come though.. very pleased with the sound and ability to drive them easily..
I wish I had an unlimited budget but I don't, so after I determine what speakers are within my budget, "musicality" matters most. I am most interested in a speaker that to my ears recreates both voice and instruments to how I believe they should sound. Over time I have realized I tend to be particularly partial to speakers with a realistic depth of sound and that don't sound "harsh" or cause listening fatigue.
I guess in the end it is all very subjective but I would like to believe it is a logical subjectiveness.
Sonics first: after several demos in different systems the speakers I consistently love (emotional engagement) are Magico and YG. I figured I can reproduce the sound at home if I properly support them with adequate components and room treatments.
Measurements- neutrality and transparency second. I want to hear as uncolored as possible the music and component upgrade
Price- try to get my preferred as economically as possible. YG priced too high. The Magico A3 sounded too lightweight so was leaning to a used S5 mk2, but settled on the A5 which is a bargain at it’s price point
@mikem , these are intriguing; never heard (of) them. Did you audition first before settling? And if so, linking this to the OP - what made you choose them? Curiosity's got me now... 😀
To me, I think it is very important to look for very efficient speakers. This not only allows to drive them with less power and as a result might help to reduce the overall cost of the system. If you drive these with amplifiers that have plenty of power this allows the sound to be transferred to the speaker with ease. This extra power also allows for greater head room and in turn might reduce distortion. I equate this to driving car with 200 HP and another with 400 HP at 100 mph. The 400 HP car is going to support a speed of 100 mph with ease. If you were to insert the word resistance into the equation, a speaker with less resistance will have to work less and the less it has to work the lower the distortion. However, the next thing one must consider is the speed by which the speakers can react to the signals it is given. However, all of this will affect how different styles of music sound better as well. We might think then of the speaker as a musical instrument to produce the right amount of resonance desired for the styles of music played.
I am a rookie and certainly I do not know what the rest of us knows. I am just trying to mentally figure this out. I also agree it is important to take into account the size of the room, along with things like the amount of hardwood floors, rugs and furniture to absorb the right amount of sound.
I kown Carbon Miller might have the correct answer to this question.
Fitting the speakers to the room is most important. I had a wonderful pair of Vonschweikert VR7’s that worked beautifully in my dedicated large listening room..
When we downsized and I lost my dedicated room to the now smaller Den, the VR7’s had to go along with some large tube mono blocks.. what a shock it was having to basically start over. I went for a mid tower, Daedalus Athena V2’s, for size and their efficiency so I could use smaller lower powered amps.. Took a few years to get to this point.. very pleased now with my sound.. as good or better when sized and matched properly.. i went through a bunch of equipment and another pair of speakers before I got it right..
Measurements to me have some meaning, but I would seek out speakers that have a known good reputation for good performance in most rooms in the real world, over measurements. I read allot of success stories about Devore Fidelity regarding. I also believe that a smooth off axis response both horizontal and vertical, is important for success in rooms as well.
What graphs? Most speaker builders don’t share any such graphs. Many speakers don’t get reviewed by folks who list all the graphs and test data. So with many, actually most speaker models, you will never see any data beyond the standard spec stuff.
It is not perfect, but if you learn how to read those graphs, you can learn a lot about how it will interact with your room.
I understand how to read them, but was agreeing with @vinylvalet ’s statement that we should not decide on speakers solely on measurements alone. I absolutely concur that measurements provide an idea of how they’ll perform in your listening room. More importantly, since the measurements are taken in a controlled environment - you’re able to compare different speakers without having to lug them into your listening room.
interesting someone else values Vienna acoustics. i have only recently acquired a pair. i haven’t heard that many current speakers in my system, but it seems perfect
I listened to a pair (forgot which model) many moons ago at a dealer, and they weren’t my cup of tea (purely subjective, of course). A bit too smooth (if that’s even a thing), though I can see their appeal if that’s the sound you’re looking for. I listened primarily with classical music; perhaps with something like rock they would have sang.
2. Determine the max dimensions that suit your room
3. If looks matter then take that into account too
4. Do your research and make a shortlist
5. Go to a shop and listen to your fav music
6. Realize that at home they will sound different, negotiate a trial period
7 Don’t be surprized you ended up with a pair of speakers that were twice the budget, twice the size, and ugly as hell ... but they just blow you away and evoke emotion with how they sound.
interesting someone else values Vienna acoustics. i have only recently acquired a pair. i haven't heard that many current speakers in my system, but it seems perfect
Quite an interesting range of responses. I always look at frequency response first and it must designate the 3db roll off point. I don't want to have to use a sub. As opposed to what someone else said about size. I recall a statement that Nick Mason made of speakers. "They ought to be big enough to put your granny in." seems like good advice to me!
ANY speaker review, measurements or not, is just a nudge in the event you are shopping and wish to demo something. Its ok to buy gear without hearing it, however, I believe strongly that the purchaser should never whine about it working or not working out well in their system. Especially if they don't take a system approach and buy the gear to use in the manner that the manufacturer intended. I scroll right on past when someone can't understand why a certain well reviewed 4 ohm/85db rated speaker sounds bad with their 2 wpc tube integrated amplifier.
Except any decent speaker review would include a range of measurements both on axis and off axis, and if they have good equipment can give you an idea of total energy (estimated room curve). It is not perfect, but if you learn how to read those graphs, you can learn a lot about how it will interact with your room. You can also identify things that will almost always be a problem.
BTW, I respectably disagree with buying speakers based solely on measurements.
Agree here too; frequency response and other measurements are typically done in a controlled, maybe anechoic, environment. They will measure much more differently in each of our listening rooms.
@vinylvalet,do you mean measurements or specifications? Specifications are for all intents and purposes meaningless when it comes to loudspeakers. How a speaker is going to perform is based almost entirely on it's design. Frequency response characteristics can be adjusted but to what end? This really needs to be done in the speaker's final location.
Where is this size phobia coming from? In order to make low bass a speaker needs to be larger. All those tower speakers with 6" woofers do not make low bass. A speaker's loudness limit is usually determined by it's tweeter. For arguments sake, lets say we have the worlds best 1" dome tweeter. I can put that tweeter in an enclosure with two 6" woofers and have a lovely little tower speaker or bookshelf. I can take the same tweeter and stick it in a much larger enclosure with two 6" midrange drivers and two 12" woofers. Both speakers will go just as loud but which one is going to make better bass? One guess only. Which speaker is going to be more enjoyable to listen to? Does the room size make a difference? The larger speaker is going to sound much better in any size room for two reasons, it makes more and lower bass and there is much less distortion in the midrange because those drivers have been relieved of the long excursions bass requires. As a rule of thumb bigger speakers are better. They are also more expensive so, you get the sour grapes attitude you frequently see and hear on this website. My speakers are HUGE and I love every square inch. There is not a single smaller loudspeaker I would care to own, even ones that are extremely more expensive. As most women know, size is everything:)
They need to be small enough to hold under each arm. Speakers are so expensive that the only one's I'm going to like I'm probably going to have to steal, so being small enough to make a quick getaway with is essential.
US manufactured speakers offer better value since shipping speakers from overseas adds considerable cost, especially these days with all the logistics issues..
So, that would be a big factor for me; biggest bang for the buck. And, IMHO, Legacy is the best value in USA made speakers.
I agree with Ted. So many instances where folks have speakers way too big for their rooms. But those folks are primarily buying with their eyes and not their ears. Often pushed in that direction by highly skilled but fundamentally dishonest salesmen.
BTW, I respectably disagree with buying speakers based solely on measurements.
It personally depends on you. Different people have different preferences. I personally go for specs over brands such as bass, audio quality. After that, I look for a medium Brand. Last but not least I always look for the return policy of that Brand because last time I bought Airpod and I was really fed up with the apple return policy and the services they provide. So what I recommend is to go for those who give better services not Big brands.
Yep, your right, she was a Chrysler! Good memory banks you have. It was kind of a dark blue, with a huge triangular looking grille, and downright ugly.
And to OLDHVYMEC,
I'm another one of those Snap-on Freaks. They are still here in the garage. I don't know how much money is in that set of boxes, but I'm betting you could by a pretty nice house with them. I know the day I retired we weighed the box (as the forklift loaded it in that dually Ford PU truck) that it weighs over 1100 lbs.. I was a heavy Equipment mechanic for Ralston Purina for 36 years. Same job with United Technologies for the previous 8.
And I know guys, I'll try to stay on topic from now on.
I know the sound I like and as soon as I heard Vandersteen’s I stopped looking.
I love the immediacy of 'Steens. First introduced with a Model 3A (non-Sig), I found them only intriguing until the dealer put on some Baroque; very coherent sound. However, they were a bit too laid back for me (at the time), so ended up landing a really good deal (clearance) on a pair of KEF 104/2s.
Got reintroduced with a Model 5 (pre-"A" and Carbon) at a Hi-Fi show. Didn't think that Vandy sound could've been improved on, but I was wrong. But - couldn't afford, so I ended up with a pair of Dunlavys they were selling on clearance prior to going out of business.
And... Quatros (wow...). Been looking to move upwards, and they've been in my crosshairs... but gads - the $$$!
....going back to what we 'were' chatting 'bot....;)
Specs if available, waterfalls pref'd, typ. graphs at least.
Listen if possible. If 'they' won't play what I do, " 'bye..."
...but, that's 'then', and now is Now.
8 pairs of speakers/drivers, 3 of which DIY.
The drivers, not a box for.....
Other than my Heils., I like mine...and liking how they measure as such.
No place to go but up.....*damn*L*
Small rooms are a PIA, but one needs to regard the space as an extension of the speaker itself, so position and room treatment are paramount. DSP should serve to 'fine tune' as opposed to 'sledge hammer' into 'refinement'...
...which generally doesn't work all that well. YRWVary....🙄
@nitrobob.... Just a point of clarification. Recheck your memory banks on #2 on your list. No such thing as a '64 Plymouth Newport...Chrysler Newport yes but Plymouth, no. There were four fullsize Plymouth model names in 1964...Savoy, Belvedere, Fury and Sport Fury. If somebody already brought this up then sorry, but I didn't read past the car list.
nitrobob, I've bought ONE new car in my life. I see 3 homes vs cars and PUs in your list. I've know several mechanics that spent the same amount on tool truck purchases until the day they died. 100-500K in tools. Kinda like people that are addicted to Gambling and traveling. Not one bit of difference. My tools are so old the nickel plating on my old Snap On is wore to the copper. Many were my fathers. Of course there is a pick up load or two more, I'd give away to some NUT that wants to be a mechanic.. Good luck with that BAD idea..
Hardest job on the GD planet, being a heavy duty mechanic at 185-210lb. I had to live in a Gem for 40 of the 50 years just to keep from getting hurt.. I seen many a man bite the big one behind being a HD mechanic.. They all should go on strike and get paid right.. WAY under paid. Like a brain surgeon salary is about 1/2 of what I should have been paid.
There are 5 oldhvymecs somewhere out there in skin I left behind, alone and 5 big swimming pools of sweat. No it was not worth it.. I feel like Mike Tyson after Buster KOed him. "What Happened"? A drip of Thorazine please, about 1/2 throttle will work. :-)
Regards
Think about that stupid robot in the original "Lost in Space", I ain't THAT robot.
Yeah, cars were cheap then….and not entirely reliable….nor safe….nor environmentally friendly. I had a 1968 Plymouth GTX with a 440 six pack in high school. It was stupidly fast, got about 7mpg if you kept your foot out of it and those drum brakes were merely suggestive of scrubbing off speed. LOL.
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