What speaker could safely be ordered without hearing it first?
Hi everyone,
I’m in the midst of my speaker search and curious about something.......as noted above. There are some brands I would be interested in based on reputation, reviews, looks etc but may never be able to hear first.
I’m curious what the collective group thinks would be a safe choice having never heard them first. I know there are variables as in size of room, current gear etc. Just want to see what people would suggest. The one I would note based on what I have read is Joseph Audio. I’d also be curious if people would say the same about Borresen.
So it may be a frivolous exercise but I’ll ask the question anyway. Let me know your thoughts.
None can be ordered “safely”. Speakers are part of an audio chain whose job is to create “subjectively” pleasing music. I’ve spent years demoing the best speakers I could find, then tried to replicate the favored sound within my budget. If the OP is asking for the the best choice without trying, then maybe it’s a probability question aka maximizing the probability of success by choosing a popular seemingly universally appraised speaker. |
If I’m you I’d do all the research I can and then buy used as others have said. If they don’t work out you can sell and move on for little/no loss if you buy wisely. Also hard to see going wrong with Fritz if he offers a return policy. @phishhhhh4 I tried to get my band to play “Backwards Down the Number Line” that I think is great and would be fun to play, but they’re idiots who have their heads stuck in 70s - 80s rock. Very frustrating. |
Speakers are the most subjective link in the music chain of all, even tge moreso by being placed in a different room than whatever "typical" room they were designed for, and whatever electronics they may have been voiced for. To that end, after many years of making and building customs for others, I finally built my endgame speakers. People seem to like them, but I have no doubt they don't conform to anyone's idea of what great measured performance is, and that's on purpose. I listen subjectively. So any speaker may be safe for you to buy unheard, but it's also a safe bet IMO it won't be exactly what you wanted in your own system in your own room. |
If you find Castle speakers on the used market for a few hundred bucks, then get that. That may as well be my final answer. You'll get real veneer and decent drivers/parts. Some sellers are so desperate that they even give away the optional wooden stands for free. Unlike with JBL or Klipsch, you won't get any recognition from the audiophile community. But you won't overpay for something that's "just fine". Castle is like the most uninspiring brand with the least curb appeal. Castle is just like Harbeth without the name recognition and the same bland design. That's great for your wallet. It's kind of like a buying an Infinity on the used car market. The depreciation is insane because nobody cares. I see beat-up Honda Civics sell for more.
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I would suggest some of the youtube reviews by some of reviews with high traffic. Old timer story......In 1970 or so the only place you could buy stereo equipment at a discount was out of NY with ads in the back of Stereo Review. Being from a small town in Minnesota, mail order was your only option. I bought a pair of Altec Lancing Santana speakers, monsters with 15" woofers, walnut cabinets and slate tops, large end tables really. You had to tear out an order form, fill in your stuff, add up the cost, write a check and send it off to NY and then wait. I had them shipped by freight (only option) and my mother took me down to the local train depot and we picked them up in dad's truck. I think I paid under $400 for the pair with shipping. Ahhh, nostalgia! |
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"The best transport" is an ongoing thread-theme, here, and there are a handful of other highly-regarded transports that are mentioned repeatedly. In fact, I bought one of them, the Pro-Ject CD Box RS2 from TMR and ended up returning it due to the ergonomics. At that point, the best alternative unit fitting my budget was not available for purchase with a return policy and in a rare exception, I opted to break my own self-imposed rule. This nearly turned into a disaster as the unit was quite forward sounding in my system. Fortunately, I was eventually able to tame the sibilance and fatiguing highs via cable and footer swaps. BTW, my speakers, DAC and integrated are all on the the warm side of neutral and none of the various reviews I’d read mentioned the forward quality of the unit in question. I only came across references to this "after the fact", courtesy of a forum member who happens to be a dealer. You must naturally follow whichever path works best for you but in my case, the experience I’ve described underscored two things; 1) buying gear I can demo at home and return if necessary is the best way to go and 2) reviews cannot be wholly relied upon.
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@kokakolia I spent hours to find Castle prices. There is nearly zero current pricelist or seller contact, and the ones I found are 2 years old from Australia. Castle's map on the web site for where you can buy it is completely broken. It's a joke in terms of how and where to buy them. Have a freaking link that works! You can make a car better than a Porsche for half the price, if you don't have a "buy" button, it doesn't exist |
Yes, kinda, as in you're rolling some dice. It may work out grear or at least very good. People do it a lot and have verygood luck very often. But it isn't quite as certain as hearing them first. Important to remember, though, that even hearing them in a shop is not a guarantee. As has been pointed out, different setting, electronics, cables (even though they don't matter at all) etc. |
With caveats and a basic understanding for room size (no LS3/5a in large rooms) placement (no Magnepans up against the wall), and power (MAs are esy to drive, moderately efficient, Maggies need more) I can't imagine anyone being disappointed with Monitor Audio's current line up, especially the Silver series or Magnepans. The Wow/$ ratio is just too much in thri favor. |
@grislybutter Castle is UK based. So these speakers show up on the local classfields in Europe for rock-bottom prices because the brand recognition is low (you can thank Castle for that). |
Hi everyone, Great to see so much participation, thanks much for this. I just want to reinforce of course I want to listen first, but as many of you have acknowledged it’s not always possible. Heck I live in Chicago and there are some brands that you can’t get near without flying. Also I totally get buying used and then flipping out of them if it doesn’t work. Many have asked about budget. So far I’ve not been blown away by much but that’s a story for a different thread. I’d say 10-30K. Some strong votes for Joseph, Magico, Harbeth and even Montior Audio. My current MA’s shine as noted below.....I’m surprised I didn’t get anyone voting for Wilson. I do also want to add that my room is VERY well sorted. Have had the main Axpona setup guy from my local award winning dealer over and he said my setup was "near perfect" and that "I’ve seen people spend a lot more and get a lot less" than I am getting out of my current setup. Just because you don’t have some fancy diffuser on the wall doesn’t mean you can’t use furniture for first order reflection, as an example. I’ll try to take some of the comments and feedback and answer as best I can. @falconquest forgot about Legacy and you are correct, nearly universal praise. @ltmandella and good reminder on ProAc....getting a lot of love here but reviews seemed to indicate very bass heavy. Good looking and great fit for my room size wise. @fertguy thanks for compliment on table. I grew up with that heavy thing and shifted it back home when my step brother passed. @hysteve recently heard the Magico A3 and really liked it, but that’s also a story for my other thread. A bit low on WAF but not out of the question. the ones with color are really neat. @mbmi your post made me look up the X3...and a local dealer has them and some Focal’s I would like to hear. Thanks for this that does look like great value. @wsrrsw on the bluesound upgrade I hear you...but demo’d a Lumin at home and the sound was marginally better but the user experience atrocious. Have my eye on HiFi Rose. @phishhhhh4 2 nights Alpharetta this weekend, very much looking forward to it. @kennyc "If the OP is asking for the the best choice without trying, then maybe it’s a probability question aka maximizing the probability of success by choosing a popular seemingly universally appraised speaker." Nailed it! This is the crux of the question. @soix shout out to you for suggesting a very fun song. @panzrwagn using MA Silvers today...and paired with my very friendly room noted above i’m having a hard time....some demo’s that should rock my world don’t because the dealer rooms don’t always cooperate and speakers that should be a clear upgrade leave me wanting more. In home might be the play? @jayctoy no decisions yet. But have to say i’m intrigued by something like this, which is a good example of "not able to listen first". https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lisb5bd1-raidho-td-3-2-speakers-full-range Thanks all, more feedback welcome. Again shocked I didn’t get a vote for Wilson on this one. |
mtbiker29 Chicago is in a great area for used equipment. I live in SC and most of my gear is used and came from your region. I picked up the A3s from Kenosha WI almost new for 60% of retail. They weren’t even broken in yet. Amp from Chicago, DAC from Indianapolis. Whatever speaker you finally decide on, with a little patience, you can find used at a good price (unless it is a launch model. I find US Audiomart a very good source. I’ve also used the Canuck version of the mart twice with success. Good luck! |
@OP, we (Dutch & Dutch) are currently working on an in-home demo program which should be off the ground within the next few weeks. The 8c, an active speaker, might not be for you, but it’s one of the most accurate (in-room, not just anechoic) speakers available, work exceedingly well in untreated rooms. With that said, we do feel that the only way to properly evaluate whether a product is right for your situation is in situ.
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Having owned a Audiostore I would ask ,what is your other equipment, room size and $$ budget all 3 things count in building system synergy for example if you have a Sonus Faber which is a bit warmer, or Wilson all tubes would be too much of a good thing in warmth., that’s just a example , and also what type of front end Thst too can be tubey warm sound if you had say a Lampizator. |
I purchased my Theil 3.7s without hearing them first but had 2.4s prior so I was familiar with the sound. Very happy with my decision. Before I purchased the 2.4s I did some serious speaker shopping and listening however. I was surprised at the differences between some of the reviews, what I expected to hear and some of what I heard. Ideally, I would want to audition them in my listening room but there are a few brands that I would have confidence in like Wilson, Magico and Joseph Audio. |
+2 for the Dutch & Dutch 8C's. They are the most beguiling speakers I've ever heard. I purchased them without hearing them first and consider them to be my endgame speakers. These monitors throw a cardioid dispersion pattern, which help eliminate first wave reflections and have onboard DSP to balance out room modes. They go down to 17hz (-3Db) in my room and are incredibly detailed, minus the listen fatigue that usually accompanies high resolution presentations. If that weren't enough the designers are working on soon to be released integration with BACCH (cross talk cancellation software plug-in) that does what 3D glasses do for your eyes will do for your ears. This is truly revolutionary technology that once heard is near impossible to live without. |
I don't think it's a bad question, it's just an out of place question. In a professional studio you can buy speakers that are known in the industry and that have good polar patterns. In a home you usually don't start with a clean acoustic canvas so you have to at least understand the acoustics of your room first to qualify your guess about what speakers would sound good in the room. Big leaps in acoustic dispersion design of speakers in the last few years buy Magico, Wilson, Joseph and the like.
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I would say depending on the budget preferably a speaker you can try before you buy, has good reviews, and is not fussy about room placement. Make sure to choose a size that is suitable for your room size and will likely have synergy with your amp. If your amp is on the warm side, probably best not to get warm sounding speaker and vice versa. Some suggestions would be Klipsch RP500 or 600m for small rooms and apartments if a little on the brighter side works. Very easy to drive, sound great at low listening levels, and bass isn't over bearing. Also have excellent reviews. Steve Guttenberg gave the 600m Product of the Year Award. Similar to these (Sony SS-CS5) for a lot less money; Cheap Audio Man said they were one of the best sounding speakers to him regardless the price, he said they had a similar sound signature to 600m but he liked the Sony's better. Go figure... Another excellent choice with sound rearing slightly to the brighter side woud be the Emotiva B1+ Airmotiv speakers. They're a direct online distributer and accept returns if your not happy. They are one of Cheap Audio Man's best bang for buck pics. Super detailed, he liked them better then the higher end Kef bookshelfs everyone raves about. A lot of unbiased reviews on You Tube. As for a warm sound signature, Wharfedale 1st comes to mind. Make sure room acoustics are decent before auditioning. Any speaker won't sound great in a poor sounding room. The room is the most important to SQ, then speaker placement, and then synergy of components I believe is how it goes. Good Luck! |
+1 |
I live in a state that is more or less an audio store desert unless you count Best Buy. I’m in the similar situation you find yourself in, in that, how do I go about buying or demo’ing speakers for my system. This means I’m trying out the limited line of speakers offered by larger on-line retailers like Crutchfield or Audio Advice. Both of which I’ve purchased recent component upgrades from and been very happy with. I’ve also found a few direct-to-consumer speaker companies that I may demo for my system. My short list of options is based on my listening criteria of moderate listening volume in a largish room. Limited to stand mount speakers due to Wife Acceptance Factor. Narrowing down to the following: Aperion Verus V8B Martin Logan Motion XT B100 MoFi Source Point 8 Sonus Faber Sonetto II KEF R3 Meta JBL L82
When I"m able to build my listening room / library in a few years I'm getting the Vandersteen 2CE Sig 3 floor standers.
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I don’t trust anybody else’s ears. They’re not attached to my head, and regardless of what any reviewer says in even the most comprehensive of reviews, that guy doesn’t know my room, my tastes, or my experience, and I’ve returned one too many speakers. My favorite speakers I've owned over the years have all been auditioned, and could have been returned. Here’s a recent thing: I was considering a pair of well regarded Volti Audio Razz speakers since I like horns, and they state on their site, "Volti Audio does not accept returns of product for any reason." That’s a direct lift from their site. Make a deposit and they keep the money...period. OK...Volti Audio will not be getting any of my money for any reason (maybe if they kidnap my grandson I’ll have to make an exception, but that seems unlikely). The designer/owner claims they get very little criticism and extremely few issues with their precious speakers, and warranty their speakers for AN ENTIRE YEAR. Yeah man...he also claims he’s there for his customers if issues arise. All true perhaps, but nope...no Razz for me! |
