I’m in my mid fifties and I recall 30 years back mid-fi to me fell into the NAD, Adcom, B&K…. For high-end I considered Mac, some of the Counterpoint offerings, Cary…. so forth. I had another post going where I mentioned I acquired an Onkyo home theater receiver that retailed new for $1,100. Yet another agoner responded that it does not rate as mid-fi. We all have our opinions of course. So right or wrong here.
How do you define the parameters of high-end versus mid-if? By money range, by brand…?
For those of you who equate higher prices with high fidelity have you ever seen the youtube channel where Danny Ritchie from GR Research compares some hi-fi, high cost speakers to more budget friendly and shows his viewers what they get for the money? Quite an eye opener. More money shelled out does not alway lead to better sound.
Thanks for the channel recommendation! It seems very interesting...
I know first hand that price tag means not so much that what most people think , and even the superiority of some speakers design over an other, to shine means an optimal room acoustic control...
My Mission Cyrus 781 so good they are, were inferior to The Tannoy Dual gold 12 inches legendarey design i owned for 40 years... But they never were, like in most audiophile rooms, never rightfully embedded, then they never touch the sound quality i feel with the inferior Cyrus, in a room completey controlled acoustically for them...
The Tannoy was too big for my listening conditions at the times, not knowing anything 12 years ago i begin my journey modifying 8 pairs of headphones, with success, but longing for better all along the way... I decided to go back to speakers again. i made the mistake to sell the two Tannoy pairs which needed refoam to finance my new audio journey...That gives me 2000 bucks...These Tannoys were mythical stuff...I sold them on the spot without bargaining...
I tried many speakers smaller one, because in my actual conditions, even if i own a dedicated audio room, it is a small room 13 feet square with everything on the desk beside the computer screen...
Not ideal... One speakers is even in a corner few inches from the wall...😁Nother location was possible...
But with acoustical, electrical and mechanical controls enbeddings experiments, i succeed in a few years to embed the Mission Cyrus so well than they beat anything i ever listen to...
Read me right, i dont brag here about my branded name speakers but about the improvement coming from the three embeddings working dimensions controls i put in place... Especially acoustic one...
Then i regretted to have sold the too big Tannoys, but now i dont lament it at all...
Acoustic is Queen...
But watch the electrical noise floor of the house, and vibrations uncontrolled, they will kill S.Q. if uncontrolled...But only acoustic will make everything shine in 3-D colors ...
Upgrading is no longer appealing, i am even afraid to upgrade, because i may in spite of a small improvement in details, regret the 12,000 bucks necessary to upgrade my three components...
I paid my system 500 bucks used : the speakers Mission Cyrus and the Sansui AU 7700, and peanuts for the sublime Christophe Mariac SPS design dac new in a bid...
I am lucky... But i worked my luck hard with these electrical, mechanical and acoustical controls... It was fun , more fun that the ephemeral pleasure of an upgrade piece , because the S.Q. i know now come from my hand and beat most upgrade i would have made without them ...
My best to all and to you for this youtube audio site....
For those of you who equate higher prices with high fidelity have you ever seen the youtube channel where Danny Ritchie from GR Research compares some hi-fi, high cost speakers to more budget friendly and shows his viewers what they get for the money? Quite an eye opener. More money shelled out does not alway lead to better sound.
In this day and age, if something sounds “mid-fi”, it just means you bought the wrong stuff. Fix that! Hifi can be had for a pittance these days. A pair of Grado headphones and a smart phone to stream from will do to start. Move up to a pair of Vanatoo active speakers and voila…..more hifi for practically nothing. Ditch the junk if it does not sound good !
The size of your wallet, and the amount of envy for those who can afford a better system 😁will never rival my pride being able to create one at very low cost !
bobpyle and I are in complete agreement. Once the million dollar audio HI-FI system is completed... who listens to it? Is it not primarily that person who owns it? So is it not only the owner's opinion that matters... if its HI-FI?
You have a real talent for posting absolute nonsense. Complete hogwash. Sensitivity has nothing to do with this discussion.
And once again we have those with the innate ability to understand the motivations of others who spend more than what is "proper" on their systems. Of course better sound has nothing to with it.
There are different levels if HI-FI. I guess it is difficult question. Everyone's ears are different, tastes are different. I would define HI Fi as being pure sounding music with a full bodied spectrum of sound and dynamics. Not a bose wave radio though they sound good. After you reach a certain dollar level you have to pay out much more $$$$$$$ to reach the next level. You get to the point where for me I get very happy and do not need to upgrade for a few decades. Spending money on HI Fi is not a hobby for me. Enjoying a great sounding system is a joy in life and a blessing.
Answer: your income. What you can afford is seen inevitably as the "low-end" of audiophilia. The highest end is always to dream for, whether $5,000 or $500,000. Does really high quality sound demand that? No, not at all. But human nature does.
'Mid-Fi' is an arbitrary marketing term thrown about loosely by those with something to gain by creating artificial barriers to entry. And painting products, even entire brands with that brush, they hope to justify there own products and brands exorbitant pricing. Case in point is Marantz. Their products span pricing from $500 to $10,000. A $500 receiver is of necessity a cost engineered product; a $9,000 integrated amp, decidedly less so, and clearly a 'high-end' product. Yet despite impeccable technical execution, I have heard it derided as 'too mid-fi'. That is simple snobbery with some unacceptable implied overtones.
If anyone bothered to listen to the one hour 45 minute YouTube interview with founder of Merrill Audio that user danager posted above, they would be treated to a discussion of real High Fidelity as he advertised. A discussion of how “I did it myself because I didn’t see anyone else doing it” (paraphrasing Merrill), “the weaknesses of other’s approach is . . .” (again, paraphrasing), and “with my approach, the challenges were ‘a,’ ‘b,’ ‘c,’ which we met by doing ‘x,’ ‘y,’ ‘x.’” (Once more, paraphrasing). Really intelligently laying out the challenges which every audio engineer must meet and overcome. We have our transformers custom made, and our supplier won’t tell us how they do it, but they meet our specifications. One of our competitors (and friends), has his capacitors made to his specifications and tests each one. What are the plates on top of the case? They help with the vibrations in the case— I could go on. But, the point is, the ultimate product is sound like no one has ever heard before. That is High Fidelity, because someone cares, because everything matters. And yes, it costs five figures (but not six), so yes, it is expensive, like it always was, it it is attainable, given a lifetime, or the greater portion of it.
Mahgister and Moonwatcher are exactly correct. I was just making a joke. We should all be happy with what we have if it meets our budget, and we are satisfied.
As cd318 stated. "Mid-fi" was and is mostly a marketing term to make you think you need to spend $$$ more than you want for a given level of quality in sound.
Everything is an engineering to price compromise at ANY level. But the goal is or should always be the same: Provide as good a full-range sound as possible with good dynamics without coloration.
Of course it seems that 80% of consumer speakers don’t follow that paradigm and too often intentionally color the sound. Some manufacturers even tout that as their "signature sound". Or boost the bass for bass heads. People coming from crappy earbuds into this hobby are impressed by that of course, but then later find themselves wanting something more balanced.
So, at the end of the day, when you reach a level of hearing all the detail you desire with music sounding as real as possible, I think you are "there".
It is all an illusion. No speaker I’ve ever heard sounds as real as a real instrument because it is NOT the real thing. Yes, they can come close and that is a good thing. But even people listening from another room can distinguish the difference.
It is pretty amazing though. A piece of paper flapping can be made to sound like a flute, a bass drum, a human voice. Great physics for sure.
This is a hobby after all. Something to enjoy on the journey, doing some experimentation, and finding out what compromises suit you.
By definition I think most of us know that things such as Bluetooth speakers, most earbuds, and such are either Lo-fi or Mid-fi. Then moving up to a decent AVR and speakers should get you to a good place, then moving up to separates get you even more.
Spend $400, $4000, $40,000. Somewhere in there you should find what you are looking for within the limits of technology. Just don’t forget to factor in your room acoustics of course.
Compared to the 1950s we are living in a great era for quality sound at all budget levels. Not bad.
I just wish more younger people would get into this hobby and keep it going. I'm not sure all the niche higher end manufacturers will be able to stay in business with a declining clientele.
High-end, mid-grade vs mid-fi, hi-fi… It depends partly on the equipment and partly on the listener. There is no perfect answer. Have an idea of what you are trying to achieve, know your budget and try to stay within it while on your quest but, most of all, really listen to the music. All of that is the joy, for me.
When à product gives as possible the real sound as the recording : than we speak about high-end. ! Does it means The price of the equipment :: no ! P.ex.: The Ear Yoshino 509, VAC, Zanden… gave à pure sound ! That’s high-end for me .
High-fi / Mid-fi : steps to archieve à higher level of qualtty.. But to each his own pleasure and fun. An amplifier very good coloered with à “clock” in the front and very expensive (heard him several times). Is mid-fi for me : why? You don’t approach the authenticiteit and puriteinse of the music…. But it will be different for everyone. Enjoyed what “you” like !
To the above “least colored” with all due respect I totally disagree a large amount of high end is heavily colored but it’s euphonic coloration as defined in music theory it sounds better it gives a good visceral experience it is not necessarily the smallest deviation from accuracy
You must have a verified phone number and physical address in order to post in the Audiogon Forums. Please return to Audiogon.com and complete this step. If you have any questions please contact Support.
