Turntable suggestions for a newbie

A little over the price of the Belt Drive models listed id the Direct Drive option from Technics, possibly stretching out to the 1200G model will really bring something very special, Speed Control concerns won't need to be budgeted for further down the line either.

The dealer you buy from can and should assist you with the cartridge. But placement is a big issue. Take half a glass of water and put it where you plan to place the table. If the water wobbles a lot when you walk around, you will have problems.

You ask if location is a legitimate concern. For perspective from a current owner of the MoFi deck with that exact concern, head over to PS Audio's website and go to their forum. Look up the thread " Too much subwoofer activity." Seems that the MoFi deck has some issues, at least for that owner. My vote would be for the VPI if you can swing it. I had one the original Scouts for several years and it was a solid, reliable, good sounding well designed table. I'd be concerned about the location issue causing potential problems though. 

System looks good. Why are you "getting into analog?"

I have an older VPI Prime and enjoy it.

I think your other choices would do you well also.

Your choice of phono stages bothers me as you would be sending the signal from a $3k TT (more with cart) through a $400 phono stage.  Maybe for the Mofi but not the Scout.

Bottleneck?  The phono stage would be your limiting factor.  

IMO the phono stage is just as important as the TT/cart and I would spend more on the phono stage than the TT.  In fact my phono stage is the most expensive component in my system.

Noromance, I'm getting into vynle/analog for a few reasons. First, I want to experience the pure analog sound. Second, just owning the physical albums with the art and inserts I think is cool and important.  Third, I feel that when you take the time to place an LP on the table one is more apt to sit and listen more intently instead of thinking about what song you're going to stream next. At least for me I think that would be true. And finally, the Raven Blackhawk should be a nice improvement in all around SQ over my Anthem AVR. 

Flattire, i had the same concern about the phono stage so when I started focusing in on the Raven products I called them and spoke to James Cahn. Not sure if he's an owner, a designer or both. I asked him what pre he recommends  and one of them was the Schiit believe it or not. Reasoning is that the Schiit pre is very well made, low noise and very simply made.  It has one job to do and does it well without adding any coloration or to the signal so what you put in is what is sent out. So I figure that I'll take him at his word as I would doubt that he would recomend a pre that did a disservice to his product. 

I have had my VPI for many years.....most vinyl players are a pain to set up....but there is a great joy in reading, following suggestions and enjoying the results.  VPI the company is very helpful ...as would be the dealer you get it from.  Don't be afraid of a well cared for used VPI.  Enjoy!!

The idiot that is trying to steer you away from SCHIIT doesn't know from where he speaks. I have one.  I have several friends that bought one. Overall concensus; - - - Fantastic performance for a bargain price.

I am also a strong supporter of the TECHNICS SL-1200G turntable. Very high-quality performance. Easy to set up properly, SME style head shell which allows easy interchange of cartridges if tastes so require. Extra counterweight for heavier cartridges such as the GRADO "wood series" MM cartridges (a true musician's cartridge) Heavily dampened and isolated. Also, as a side bar; an excellent table to allow upgrades from "FUNK FIRM" to state of the art performance. Do a little research. I think you will agree.

Oh yes, as far as VPI is concerned, I have no mis-giving's whatsoever. Also, an outstanding USA manufacturer of turntables and, as stated, a good company to work with.

My recommendation was steered more in the direction of the fact that you are a "newbie" as far as turntable music reproduction is concerned. There are almost an infinite number of considerations that can affect how good your TT setup will do what you are hoping for. Even your choice of music plays a great part in the end result, largely due to the fact that most "POP"; "HOP."; and "STEEL"; recordings have been recorded and mastered under less that optimal conditions. Especially, older vinyl. Then there is the matter of cleaning and restoration of records that have been handled and stored under less-than-ideal conditions. If you want the best a record can offer, sound wise, you had better consider a record cleaning machine. VPI makes those also. In that sense, be careful of products that offer miracles and produce nothing. And of course, there is the consideration of a cartridge and maintaining one properly. Another consideration that can make a world of difference, in wear and performance. The truth is, the deeper you delve into the wonderful world of vinyl, the more expensive it can get to maintain, unless of course you just don't give a damn. Unlike CD' s and digital downloads, vinyl is somewhat akin to "marriage". Be careful and choose wisely "grasshopper".

Thanks all. Very helpful.  I think I'm going to steal clear of an isolated drive table as physical placement of the unit and my lack of knowledge would be an issue.  They sure look bad ass though. I think I'll keep an eye out for a used vpi as suggested by stringreen. MoFi is still in the running and I've added clearaudio.  I've got a slight problem spending playmoney on stuff made in 3rd world country's.  That's why I'm not considering technics.  I know they are a solid brand and I'm a frigging hypocrite because I own 2 RELs.. ..nobody's perfect.

Axpert, 

Thank you for you advice as well. Very informative, but I don't think flattire was trying to dissuade.  I think he was just giving honest advice from his experience,  and therefore not an idiot.   BTY...what that amp u posted?

WOW! Let me get this straight, you want to buy a turntable, and what records are you planning on playing? New records? Do you even own one real record? When you spend money on a higher resolution turntable and then play horrible sounding copies and Repos and just plain bad made records from horrible master sources , No Bueno. Sure you can stick to the great companies like RTI, MFSL,Hot Stampers ect...and pay a lot! You might get lucky searching for old original clean records at the used record and antique stores and estate sales, Ya! So, if none of that scares you away, then get a 2 inch slab of granite cut big enough to put under the turntable,use small rubber washers under it so you wont have a vibration issue. And remember! The Phono Preamp is the gateway to great vinyl sound :-) Also, get a nice High output MC cartridge like a Dynavector 10X5 Highly recommended.

MATT M

If Vinyl becomes the go to Source, then in relation to the mechanics of the TT, interest in the importance for this area for Vinyl Replays will most likely have commenced to become an interest.

Speed is an early concern to come to the Forefront, a DD TT, certain TT of this drive has Speed pretty much nailed within the initial purchase cost.

Adding on a Speed Control Device to other Drive types for a TT, can add substantially to the cost of the set up. 

Keep in mind that the Skoll has balanced inputs, so you might consider a turntable that has balanced outputs. I have the Skoll, and I am happy with my Thorens TD 1601. I run a Nagaoka cartridge with it. I enjoy the arm lift and shutoff features.

Vinyl is it. Pure bliss. You will love it more than streaming can ever give you. Nescafé vs. the richest espresso…

OP,you REALLY should read this entire thread before you take 1 more step!
https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/vinyl-what-if

Then I would strongly suggest not to buy a friggin TT. If all you want one for is to say "hey look I have a Turn Table" Which is obviously the case.

Check out SOTA! They come with a REGA tonearm and an optional cartridge!

https://sotaturntables.com/product-category/urban-series/

Just don't care for the looks of sota. Except their really expensive ones. 

MattM.  Sorry if I'm not cool enough to be in your elite vynle club. Probably a bit lonely there anyway.  Maybe one of the other nice cool guys on this thread will let me in their club and teach my the ways of thy Holly Vynle 

Thanks again all!!

All fine TTs to be sure...

I went the direct drive route with a Technics 1500 SL and used the Funk Firm mod kit 10 to get it VERY quiet. I love it. Technics makes a hell of a TT and the 1200 series that others have mentioned is even better. One thing to consider is that while belt driven tables have their charms, they are way more fussy and typically have little to no features. The Technics, on the other hand, has instant start/stop, perfect speed stability, change from 33s to 45s with a push of a button (most belt driven tables require you to take the platter off and change belts) and tons of tone arm adjustments (that last one is the most important by a mile).  

I'm not saying you'll be disappointed with the list you've assembled, they are all very high quality TTs. Just sharing my personal experience...

Good luck!

I've lived with a MOFI Ultradeck for several years now. Upgraded to a HANA ML cart and added a Parasound JC3 Jr. phono pre. For me it's a great set up. Solid, firm, black backgrounds, it's dynamic and detailed, never harsh. Right now I feel I would be hard pressed to make a significant jump in performance and enjoyment, without a serious cash infusion. 

Technics (or other tt) with removable head shell is a must have feature for me. Easier to install cartridge and use multiple head shells with mounted cartridges dependent on sound profile I want. 

Get the MoFi, it's a great deck, and easy to live with. 

Got into vinyl a little over 2 years ago, last time I purchased a record was in the late 1980's. No idea what happened to all my old records, or even my old stereo, think my little sister stole it when I left for the service, anyway...

Vinyl is very analog. Think about that for a second. Everything about it is analog. From taking the record out of the sleeve, put on the TT, run your carbon brush over it, turn on TT, lift tonearm, place on record... It's all manual, and analog. As other have said, records need to be cleaned. Even new ones have crap all over them. You will also invest in a record cleaning supplies. It took me about 6 months before I purchased an ultrasonic machine. Expect to spend another $500-3000 on cleaning kits. 

The needle also needs to be cleaned all the time. Even a clean record can pull grit out of groves. Thought I was doing a good job with that, until I bent my needle trying to clean it, that was hopefully a one time mistake. 

Then there is setting up, out of box you don't need much, but once you change a cartridge, or really want to dial in one, you need all the setup tools. Another $100-1000 there. A good digital scale is almost a must. It also saves a lot of time. 

Now let's talk about storage, records are heavy, and take up a lot of space. I got a 800 LP storage unit, that was filled in less than a year. Got another one, and had to rearrange my music room. 

After all this, you will start to fine tune everything. Getting better cables, better needles, better carts, isolation platforms, speed boxes, etc..... 

My point is, getting into vinyl is a lot of work, it takes a lot of time, effort, and money. It's so much more involved over any other music medium.  Sadly, vinyl is also getting more expensive, records have gone from $20-25, now $30. Almost everything is a double or triple LP $40-75. 

It does sound better over other mediums, helps me connect to the music, almost forces me to listen to entire albums, brings me enjoyment. Finding a hard to find album is almost like winning the lotto, until you see how much it cost! I try to budget $500 a month for records, sadly go over that a lot. Just picked up a sealed Hendrix, that I have been searching for. 

Thanks again all for your knowledge and words of caution.  I like tweaking with things and love gound sound so it's sounds like analog will be rewarding. 

I just talked to a local dealer and he has a Clearaudio Performance DC table with a Clarify Carbon tone arm and Virtuoso V2 cart. He says it's in mint condition.  Asking 3300. Anyone have a thought on that deal?

OP: I bought LPs and cassettes back in the day. Between my wife and I, we had quite a lot of LPs, but after moving to Canada from the UK, I started into CDs and left my Garrard deck behind. Then I inherited all my brother's LPs (he was replacing them with LaserDisks and did not want his wife to know...). So nearly twenty years ago I decided to buy a turntable again (it was a Rega Planar 3) and have never looked back.

But what you did not mention is whether you already own any LPs. I'm not sure I'd do it (even from my current perspective, with two turntables, four tonearms and a pile of spare tonearms and cartridges)) if all I had was CDs and SACDs. The digital disks sound nearly as good (after many, many CD players), but I needed to be able to play LPs that were not available on CD. Having started, I now buy on LP as a first choice, and CD if vinyl is not available or is crazy expensive. Should you (or anyone else) start on that road if you don't own any LPs? Hard question!

Japan, where Technics products are nominally manufactured by a large conglomerate is hardly a 3rd world country.  (I say "nominally", because some of their lower end models are apparently now made in Malaysia.) Nor is the UK a 3rd world country, the nominal home of REL. I think what you mean is that you want a TT made in USA.  Then your choices are VPI and SOTA, period. Clearaudio are made in Germany or outsourced to a dreaded 3rd world country.

Also, there are big differences between an older Technics SL1500 and any of the newer G series TTs (SL1200G, GR, GAE, etc), all in favor of any of the latter. Technics have very recently introduced a G2 version, as well.

I literally came across two people this week in their 20s and 30s getting into vinyl without a single album and I gave them all the help I could. 

Maybe vinyl is not dead, after all....

Dogberry,  

I've inherited a bunch of old classical LPs from the 50s and 60s that were my fathers. I'd like to listen to them.   Besides that, I'm 50 yrs old now and finally have some disposable income which I'm choosing to spend on the HiFi hobby because I enjoy it and my wife does too.  Although she won't readily admit to it.  So that's it in a nut shell

I’m shocked that I bought a Technics SL1210G, and even more shocked that I’ve had it for over 3 years and have never thought about upgrading it.  I had VPI Classic 3, Classic 1, Clearaudio Solution and VPI Aries prior to the Technics, man, I  love the Technics, love changing cartridges, and easy to live with

Go To a Record Store, especially one of these new Boutique Type places. You will not be the Oldest in the Store and certainly not the Youngest.

These Shops are established businesses, and their new inventories of Import Items are seen as a Big Thing with their Customer Base.

There is a keenness for Vinyl, there is evidence in many ways to prove this. Even if with Vinyl not being off the scale as a mainstream product. 

Will do. I went to hifi dealer today to listen to a Clearaudio table. He had it hooked to a Hegel.  It was ok.  I asked for it to be hooked to a tube amp that was in the room and Holly crap....the sound stage about doubled. 

I own the Clearaudio  performance DC and I have enjoyed it very much. I’m no expert but it sounds like the deal you have been offered isn’tpretty good if what he has is truly in mint condition and that’s a big if. I’ve also owned Rega which I think delivers a lot of performance for the money.

Honestly, I think you would be pleased with the clearaudio but that’s also true of the others on your list. Make sure the cartridge produces the sound you like, it’s every bit as important as the table in my view. 
 

It sounds as if you have  thought this through and I think you will really enjoy the vinyl experience. As others have said it’s a lot more work than streaming. Most of my listening is streaming because of the convenience but when I have time for an extended session, I still find that nothing is like vinyl. To my ears, well press vinyl is still better than streaming. And I think I have a pretty good digital set up. It is subjective, however, and some disagree. What sounds better to me may not at all be the case for you and I would take those who “know”what you will like with a big grain of salt

I agree with you that owning physical media is a kick. It takes time and money to build a vinyl collection But it seems that you have thought that through and I wouldn’t be too discouraged by those who are not attracted by its charms, We all like something different.. In fact, one of the great enjoyments to me is finding a good used record store and combing through a lot of old junk to run across a vintage pressing in great condition.

good luck. I think you’ve got a lot of great advice here but in the end go with your gut. Folks tend to recommend what they have chosen because it’s what they know, and I suspect it also validates our own decisions in someway. I would be a little wary of those who say this is what I bought so that means it will absolutely be the best for you, something we all tend to do.

this is a very Subjective hobby. There might be an extremely well built machine or cartridge that I love, but it may not produce the sound that is pleasing to you. There is no better guide than your own ears

enjoy

Well said Kerrybh 

Thank you 

Of the three turntables in the initial post, two are modern art without a practical dustcover. I've tried that route, and have found that I prefer to have a dustcover from the factory as a part of the table itself.

There are large plexiglass covers available in the aftermarket, but they require additional space, and a spot to place that cover when you want access.

Good point

Yeah, go with the Vpi... If nothing else, it will hold its value a little better. I have a Michell, actually the '23 Transcriptors with the Onyx arm. The lift off dust cover (which I prefer... Lower the attached lid when playing; a raised cover is a noise and distortion antennae) was easier to find than a drive belt. The Vpi is a more well known product with a bigger aftermarket. The only thing I would suggest is staying away from the Uni Pivot arms on a first TT., and factory support from Vpi is at hand. As to cartridge start out with a MM like Ortofon M2 series, Black or Bronze, or another high quality unit...Clear Audio, maybe. I recently purchased a second hand "upgraded" (many MM can move up with a stylus upgrade) Nagaoka, which has proven to be impressive. And since I've been disposing the disposable income on these things for 50 years I have a nice collection of Shure V15's (The real money goes to JICO), Most MM carts utilize a replaceable stylus. Which, in a way, becomes something like tube rolling. and it's set up set up set up.

Thanks puptent 

Upscale Audio has VPI Super Prime Scout 21 with the 10.5: arm,and  VTA on the fly (not really sure what that is) for $3899 and they are giving a choice of 4 cartridges:

Ortofon 2m bronze $300

Sorry wasn't done

Ortofon 2m black 500

Soundsmith zephyr MIMC ES $1700

Soundsmith Otello ES 400

Sound like a good deal?

another interesting option in your price range is the Thorens TD-1500.  

I just talked to a local dealer and he has a Clearaudio Performance DC table with a Clarify Carbon tone arm and Virtuoso V2 cart. He says it's in mint condition.  Asking 3300. Anyone have a thought on that deal?

It's just an OK deal. For example, I just traded in a Performance DC with the Tracer tone arm. I paid $5600 new with a Hana ML cart. The issue is the Clarify arm is 2 levels down from the Tracer and the Virtuoso V2 isn't as good as the Hana, both $1200 list. I think you can do better for $3300.

I have no experience with VPI, but the 2 Ortofon carts in the Upscale package are not that great.

Lastly, James Connell at Raven is the real deal. A musician, recording engineer (mostly classical) and an all round good guy.

I've always had a turntable. I have several hundred albums, but a small collection compared to most vinyl guys. 

About a year ago, I decided to see if vinyl could sound as good as cd.  I bought a Marantz TT-15S1 which comes with a Clearaudio Virtuoso Ebony Wood cartridge. Used a Sutherland KC Vibe phono stage.  Despite good reviews, the cartridge didn't blow me away.  I next bought a Hana ML moving coil cartridge and upgraded the phono stage to a Sutherland TZ Vibe.  Now, it sounds really good. 

I bought quite a new albums including some pricey quality pressings.  Played vinyl for a number of months, but after upgrading my streamer, interest in flipping records fizzled. 

Note that Technics have a new upgraded model coming out without the DJ functions so it looks clean. You can buy aftermarket wood surrounds if that suits. SL-1300G.

Pairing it with a Nagaoka MP500 (and a SpinClean record cleaner) would get you running.

us.technics.com/products/grand-class-turntable-sl-1300

@chayro +1 for the glass of water trick. Excellent. Just like in Jurassic Park.