In relation to Looks Matter - In relation to ones 'better half' showing a tolerance for a item to be used for the occasional replay of recorded music using a a Archaic Medium to produce the facsimile of the recorded data when the Stylus is reading the Modulations.
The device required to enable this type of replay to occur soon becomes a Dust Collecting Carbuncle in the Space they are trying to have a feel good factor about.
The Archaic Medium on show will be as welcome as a Naked Picture of ones Mothering Law above the Marital Bed Head Board.
Man Caves are Marriage Savers for good reasons.
Every Man with a Partner Sharing their Living Space needs a Man Cave or alternatively, a Friend who is salvaging their own relationship through having a with Man Cave, hopefully their is a Friend who has shared interests.
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I've owned a Mofi Ultradeck for almost two years. In that time, it's been a pretty a solid turntable, requiring little to no intervention. I think it sounds a little more tone rich the the Technics I also tried at the time. However, one thing I wish I would have known before I purchased it, is that is has a very heavy 24g tonearm. That heavy of a tonearm can be a bit limiting in cartridge choices. Though all the MoFi (rebadged AT) cartridges would be compliant.
Music Direct says they have installed many out of compliance cartridges on them, and other people have posted on various forums about using out of compliance cartridges, but I'm not so sure I want to spend $1k plus on a cartridge to find out.
I probably would have gone in a different direction had I have know. Either with a Sota Escape with an Origin Live Silver tonearm or a VPI.
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It's in a living room and needs to be wife approved. So yes. Looks matter. Looks matter in all of this hobby. Don't kid yourself. Someone else had the same ridiculous notion of why one would buy a record player without records. That's ridiculous and dumb as hell. Why would one have records without a player??? BTW genius, I do have an extensive classical LP collection that was my dad's. Vibration isn't an issue. It's been checked.
Thanks
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You care too much about how it looks. Why are you getting into vinyl if you don't have a large record collection (this coming from a 90% vinyl guy)? If you are putting the TT into a spot where it is subject to excessive vibration, plan for spending $$$ to address that, unless you don't intend to listen to it (which it sounds like is the case).
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Wasn't quite finished..I have 2 tonearms and the super polytable would be terrific.
Best of luck
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VPI makes a fine TT & I have used mine for decades. I have implemented multiple tweeks with the assistance of George Merrill. Link : https://www.hifigem.com/polytable/
His Super Polytable would be on my short list if I were just starting out with vinyl or wishing to upgrade. Check out the link and all of his offerings. Most highly recommended.
It's all about the sound!
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As a complete curve ball proposal, the following will fit the proposal quite fittingly.
There will not be too many who disagree with the Purchase Values of the Items in the Links.
There will also not be too many who disagree with the use of such Items as a TT > TA > Cartridge > Plinth. In my view at such asking prices, it is a great starting place, which if all goes well as a used item sale, will be one that is most likely to appreciate in value.
There is always a risk to buying Vintage and Imported, but many many have done this and there are those that remain doing it as well. I myself have numerous purchases made from the site in the Links with only a couple not working out exactly as planned.
Add $300ish as the additional costs for a combined shipping and Import Tax.
The First Link gets a TT > TA > Cartridge > Plinth with the TT's Electronics having been refurbished and the claim made the function is proven.
The TT as a lone item has the evidence shown it is working at both 33 and 45 rpm.
The Tonearm as a lone item has a massive following for its qualities.
The Plinth as a Lone Item is a Mass Design, it will be one that can be contentious as there is the endless debate about a Material and Structure used for a Plinth, especially Mass vs Light Weight. On the same sales site, there are Wood Structure Plinths as well, these could be veneered to create a aesthetic that has extra appeal and fits in better with a rooms decor.
https://www.fromjapan.co.jp/japan/en/auction/yahoo/input/p1073298992/
https://www.fromjapan.co.jp/japan/en/auction/yahoo/input/l1155224548/
https://www.fromjapan.co.jp/japan/en/auction/yahoo/input/1156118058/
https://www.fromjapan.co.jp/japan/en/auction/yahoo/input/h1156210363/
The following is not my recommendation as a Cart', it is a pointer to what can be achieved as a Purchase. Of this actual Cart' is supplied and capable of 400 hours of good replays? This outcome would be close to $00.50c a replay, which is a Bargain. If the Cart' proves to be very attractive in use, it is one that can be retipped to offer another 1000ish Hours at approx' $00.50c per replay, the attraction is being maintained and the Bargain of usage cost is extended for the longer term.
https://www.fromjapan.co.jp/japan/en/auction/yahoo/input/w1156131679/
As in all Used Item Sale Purchases CAVEAT EMPTOR is ones best friend.
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My old VPI 19-4 has rubber/spring sprung suspension and works well as is in preventing vibration problems. My VPI TNT6 has a terrible Delrin footer suspension and is used on top of a Townshend Seismic Sink (fantastic combo). So, when purchasing a VPI table, analyze the suspension because it could be excellent to terrible requiring a platform (such as the newer Townshend spring suspension footers or platform. Only changed belts (many times) in 42 years for 19-4 and TNT6.
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I bought the VPI HW 19 Mk II with a Sumiko MMT arm and a Koetsu Black in 1985 from Sound By Singer.
I was going to upgrade to a VPI Classic around 2010, but Harry (Weisfeld: the "HW") told me that for $800 to $1,000, I can save myself $4,000 by simply upgrading the HW 19 to a Mk IV and I will have a table that is as good or better (the design philosophy change was forced on them by the EPA: no more lead rings in the platter). So I did.
I am taking it in to VPI to mount a new Jelco 750 arm and to give the table a lookover and tune up later this month.
In other words, I have a table that I have been using for 39 years. I expect to use it for another 25 years or until I die, whenever is later. Can’t beat that for value. BTW someone there told me that 82% of all their tables are still in use.
VPI has great products, and they "take care of their family" of customers after they close the deal.
As for arms, both have detachable shells. That’s allegedly not the best thing, but I need the convenience of switching cartridges. I am still getting terrific sound, so I stay with the convenience.
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If you're buying a used Scout that comes with one of their unipivot tonearms included in the purchase price, and if you don't want a unipivot, I do in that case understand your conundrum. The solution might be any one of the following: (1) Ask the seller to keep the tonearm and reduce the price accordingly, or (2) buy and install the stabilizer that I think VPI sells for their unipivots. Although unipivots are not held in high regard on this forum, they are not so terrible as all that, especially when stabilized, and your system is not going to suffer. Or (3) find another deal for a VPI without tonearm. Then buy separately the tonearm you desire, whatever that is. You are by no means restricted to VPI in your choice of tonearm.
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The Link will show asking prices for VPI across a few years with the most recent to compare. It should help identify where noticeable depreciation can occur with certain models.
Knowing depreciation can help be the deal maker/breaker on certain purchases.
My TT Purchases over many years have always appreciated, this is the better place to be, if one is totally satisfied with their TT’s capabilities.
https://www.hifishark.com/search?q=VPI
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Very true Lewn. Unfortunately that would probably put the scout above my budget. Maybe I'll email vpi to see what options they for that table that wouldn't blow my budget. I know the arms they list on there site are all over 1k
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If you have the money to build a wall mounted shelf, do it. De-coupling from the floor works.
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Scout is a turntable. There is no reason you could not mount a non-original (that is, a tonearm that is not unipivot) on a Scout TT. Dozens of tonearms qualify.
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The Scout is. Unless their site hasn't been updated
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NewerVPI tonearms are not unipivot.
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I’ve had several VPI TTs and would recommend them.
I’ve got a Prime 21 with a gimbal arm but wouldn’t be scared of the Unipivot.
I run a Soundsmith Zephyr MI cart but the Otello would be a good cart to go with.
Go with a VPI…
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Thanks. I think I'm over the vpi thing now. The unipivot kinda scared me off. The isolated drive also is a bit impractical for my real world scenario. So that's another mark against vpi and kinda rules out the Michell Technodec. I'm now on to Rega or EAT or a used Avid Volvere if the price is right. My default is think will still be MoFi.....maybe. this kinda sucks but fun at the same time. I'm driving the wife nuts. Thanks for everyone's input. I
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+1 @noromance technics is very solid and extremely easy to work with..
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I have had Two VPI Primes, and would discourage the unit and brand for workmanship issues. It will require the addition of dual pivot, the tone arm lowering devise was replaced twice still doesn’t lower slightly or straight. In addition I had the send back the Speed Controller, hum and indicator light. I’m so frustrated with VPI. And everytime returns had to go thru dealer rather than direct waisting more time. Rethink VPI
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My Marantz TT-15S1 is a nice TT (made by Clearaudio), but if you prefer a different TT, I would recommend that you consider the Hana ML moving coil cartridge and the Sutherland TZ Vibe phono stage. The Sutherland is lesser known, but there are a lot of really good reviews of the Hana ML cartridge. That pairing brought my vinyl playback to the point that it gives my digital setup a run for it's money.
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I've thought about that believe me. Thought process is to get good enough gear that with the swapping of tubes or carts it will satisfy my itch for years to come. The other rout as you suggested, I've went down with my digital end and within a year I had completely revamped my system. So in the long run I would have been money ahead with better gear to start with. Problem was I didn't have the knowledge or know what I was missing. Hence the rabbit hole of pursuing better sound. I know what pretty damn good sounds like now. So I just assume to start my analog journey at about the same level as my digital set up and do it in such a way that allows growth and not get discouraged because the sound is inferior to what I have already. I hope that makes sense. Not saying it's the correct way of thinking of things it's just how I'm looking at it.
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Are you sure you want to go whole-hog on a turntable right off the bat? Might it not be better to start with something a bit less expensive (but still fine) to "get your feet wet?"
For instance, a UTurn Audio Theory with an Ortofon 2M Bronze for $1,239? Or a Technics SL-1500c for $1,299? There are many others in that price range.
Just a thought. You'll get at least 90% of the performance for 40% of the cost of a mid-line VPI or similar.
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3 to 4 k. I have looked at projects. They may be in the running. Aural is selling a used avid in my range that looks killer. I'm like a kid in a candy shop....too many choices.
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What is your price point? Have you looked at Project TT's?
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If your Ortofon is not that great it's worn out (go to Soundsmith for repair) or is not set up correctly. I have a Windfield on my VPI arm and it sounds great. Some complain of VPI's unipivot arm....I attached their optional 2nd pivot.....happy.
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I had a VPI scout and used it for about 20 years. VPI may not be a good choice if you like to switch cartridges (I currently rotate between 3 cartridges on a regular basis) If you do want to do that a different tonearm may be indicated (one with a removable head shell).
I currently use a rega turntable which is very easy to set up and installed a grace tonearm on it from the 70's.
VPI is good but a bit fussy to set up.
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@grislybutter said "Maybe vinyl is not dead, after all..."
I firmly believe that one day, maybe in 50 years, maybe in 150 years, vinyl will be played on the moon and on Mars and listened to via a tube amp. ;-)
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@chayro +1 for the glass of water trick. Excellent. Just like in Jurassic Park.
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Note that Technics have a new upgraded model coming out without the DJ functions so it looks clean. You can buy aftermarket wood surrounds if that suits. SL-1300G.
Pairing it with a Nagaoka MP500 (and a SpinClean record cleaner) would get you running.
us.technics.com/products/grand-class-turntable-sl-1300
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I've always had a turntable. I have several hundred albums, but a small collection compared to most vinyl guys.
About a year ago, I decided to see if vinyl could sound as good as cd. I bought a Marantz TT-15S1 which comes with a Clearaudio Virtuoso Ebony Wood cartridge. Used a Sutherland KC Vibe phono stage. Despite good reviews, the cartridge didn't blow me away. I next bought a Hana ML moving coil cartridge and upgraded the phono stage to a Sutherland TZ Vibe. Now, it sounds really good.
I bought quite a new albums including some pricey quality pressings. Played vinyl for a number of months, but after upgrading my streamer, interest in flipping records fizzled.
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I just talked to a local dealer and he has a Clearaudio Performance DC table with a Clarify Carbon tone arm and Virtuoso V2 cart. He says it's in mint condition. Asking 3300. Anyone have a thought on that deal?
It's just an OK deal. For example, I just traded in a Performance DC with the Tracer tone arm. I paid $5600 new with a Hana ML cart. The issue is the Clarify arm is 2 levels down from the Tracer and the Virtuoso V2 isn't as good as the Hana, both $1200 list. I think you can do better for $3300.
I have no experience with VPI, but the 2 Ortofon carts in the Upscale package are not that great.
Lastly, James Connell at Raven is the real deal. A musician, recording engineer (mostly classical) and an all round good guy.
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another interesting option in your price range is the Thorens TD-1500.
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Sorry wasn't done
Ortofon 2m black 500
Soundsmith zephyr MIMC ES $1700
Soundsmith Otello ES 400
Sound like a good deal?
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Thanks puptent
Upscale Audio has VPI Super Prime Scout 21 with the 10.5: arm,and VTA on the fly (not really sure what that is) for $3899 and they are giving a choice of 4 cartridges:
Ortofon 2m bronze $300
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Yeah, go with the Vpi... If nothing else, it will hold its value a little better. I have a Michell, actually the '23 Transcriptors with the Onyx arm. The lift off dust cover (which I prefer... Lower the attached lid when playing; a raised cover is a noise and distortion antennae) was easier to find than a drive belt. The Vpi is a more well known product with a bigger aftermarket. The only thing I would suggest is staying away from the Uni Pivot arms on a first TT., and factory support from Vpi is at hand. As to cartridge start out with a MM like Ortofon M2 series, Black or Bronze, or another high quality unit...Clear Audio, maybe. I recently purchased a second hand "upgraded" (many MM can move up with a stylus upgrade) Nagaoka, which has proven to be impressive. And since I've been disposing the disposable income on these things for 50 years I have a nice collection of Shure V15's (The real money goes to JICO), Most MM carts utilize a replaceable stylus. Which, in a way, becomes something like tube rolling. and it's set up set up set up.
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Of the three turntables in the initial post, two are modern art without a practical dustcover. I've tried that route, and have found that I prefer to have a dustcover from the factory as a part of the table itself.
There are large plexiglass covers available in the aftermarket, but they require additional space, and a spot to place that cover when you want access.
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Well said Kerrybh
Thank you
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I own the Clearaudio performance DC and I have enjoyed it very much. I’m no expert but it sounds like the deal you have been offered isn’tpretty good if what he has is truly in mint condition and that’s a big if. I’ve also owned Rega which I think delivers a lot of performance for the money.
Honestly, I think you would be pleased with the clearaudio but that’s also true of the others on your list. Make sure the cartridge produces the sound you like, it’s every bit as important as the table in my view.
It sounds as if you have thought this through and I think you will really enjoy the vinyl experience. As others have said it’s a lot more work than streaming. Most of my listening is streaming because of the convenience but when I have time for an extended session, I still find that nothing is like vinyl. To my ears, well press vinyl is still better than streaming. And I think I have a pretty good digital set up. It is subjective, however, and some disagree. What sounds better to me may not at all be the case for you and I would take those who “know”what you will like with a big grain of salt
I agree with you that owning physical media is a kick. It takes time and money to build a vinyl collection But it seems that you have thought that through and I wouldn’t be too discouraged by those who are not attracted by its charms, We all like something different.. In fact, one of the great enjoyments to me is finding a good used record store and combing through a lot of old junk to run across a vintage pressing in great condition.
good luck. I think you’ve got a lot of great advice here but in the end go with your gut. Folks tend to recommend what they have chosen because it’s what they know, and I suspect it also validates our own decisions in someway. I would be a little wary of those who say this is what I bought so that means it will absolutely be the best for you, something we all tend to do.
this is a very Subjective hobby. There might be an extremely well built machine or cartridge that I love, but it may not produce the sound that is pleasing to you. There is no better guide than your own ears
enjoy
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Will do. I went to hifi dealer today to listen to a Clearaudio table. He had it hooked to a Hegel. It was ok. I asked for it to be hooked to a tube amp that was in the room and Holly crap....the sound stage about doubled.
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Go To a Record Store, especially one of these new Boutique Type places. You will not be the Oldest in the Store and certainly not the Youngest.
These Shops are established businesses, and their new inventories of Import Items are seen as a Big Thing with their Customer Base.
There is a keenness for Vinyl, there is evidence in many ways to prove this. Even if with Vinyl not being off the scale as a mainstream product.
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I’m shocked that I bought a Technics SL1210G, and even more shocked that I’ve had it for over 3 years and have never thought about upgrading it. I had VPI Classic 3, Classic 1, Clearaudio Solution and VPI Aries prior to the Technics, man, I love the Technics, love changing cartridges, and easy to live with
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Dogberry,
I've inherited a bunch of old classical LPs from the 50s and 60s that were my fathers. I'd like to listen to them. Besides that, I'm 50 yrs old now and finally have some disposable income which I'm choosing to spend on the HiFi hobby because I enjoy it and my wife does too. Although she won't readily admit to it. So that's it in a nut shell
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I literally came across two people this week in their 20s and 30s getting into vinyl without a single album and I gave them all the help I could.
Maybe vinyl is not dead, after all....
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Japan, where Technics products are nominally manufactured by a large conglomerate is hardly a 3rd world country. (I say "nominally", because some of their lower end models are apparently now made in Malaysia.) Nor is the UK a 3rd world country, the nominal home of REL. I think what you mean is that you want a TT made in USA. Then your choices are VPI and SOTA, period. Clearaudio are made in Germany or outsourced to a dreaded 3rd world country.
Also, there are big differences between an older Technics SL1500 and any of the newer G series TTs (SL1200G, GR, GAE, etc), all in favor of any of the latter. Technics have very recently introduced a G2 version, as well.
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OP: I bought LPs and cassettes back in the day. Between my wife and I, we had quite a lot of LPs, but after moving to Canada from the UK, I started into CDs and left my Garrard deck behind. Then I inherited all my brother's LPs (he was replacing them with LaserDisks and did not want his wife to know...). So nearly twenty years ago I decided to buy a turntable again (it was a Rega Planar 3) and have never looked back.
But what you did not mention is whether you already own any LPs. I'm not sure I'd do it (even from my current perspective, with two turntables, four tonearms and a pile of spare tonearms and cartridges)) if all I had was CDs and SACDs. The digital disks sound nearly as good (after many, many CD players), but I needed to be able to play LPs that were not available on CD. Having started, I now buy on LP as a first choice, and CD if vinyl is not available or is crazy expensive. Should you (or anyone else) start on that road if you don't own any LPs? Hard question!
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Thanks again all for your knowledge and words of caution. I like tweaking with things and love gound sound so it's sounds like analog will be rewarding.
I just talked to a local dealer and he has a Clearaudio Performance DC table with a Clarify Carbon tone arm and Virtuoso V2 cart. He says it's in mint condition. Asking 3300. Anyone have a thought on that deal?
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Get the MoFi, it's a great deck, and easy to live with.
Got into vinyl a little over 2 years ago, last time I purchased a record was in the late 1980's. No idea what happened to all my old records, or even my old stereo, think my little sister stole it when I left for the service, anyway...
Vinyl is very analog. Think about that for a second. Everything about it is analog. From taking the record out of the sleeve, put on the TT, run your carbon brush over it, turn on TT, lift tonearm, place on record... It's all manual, and analog. As other have said, records need to be cleaned. Even new ones have crap all over them. You will also invest in a record cleaning supplies. It took me about 6 months before I purchased an ultrasonic machine. Expect to spend another $500-3000 on cleaning kits.
The needle also needs to be cleaned all the time. Even a clean record can pull grit out of groves. Thought I was doing a good job with that, until I bent my needle trying to clean it, that was hopefully a one time mistake.
Then there is setting up, out of box you don't need much, but once you change a cartridge, or really want to dial in one, you need all the setup tools. Another $100-1000 there. A good digital scale is almost a must. It also saves a lot of time.
Now let's talk about storage, records are heavy, and take up a lot of space. I got a 800 LP storage unit, that was filled in less than a year. Got another one, and had to rearrange my music room.
After all this, you will start to fine tune everything. Getting better cables, better needles, better carts, isolation platforms, speed boxes, etc.....
My point is, getting into vinyl is a lot of work, it takes a lot of time, effort, and money. It's so much more involved over any other music medium. Sadly, vinyl is also getting more expensive, records have gone from $20-25, now $30. Almost everything is a double or triple LP $40-75.
It does sound better over other mediums, helps me connect to the music, almost forces me to listen to entire albums, brings me enjoyment. Finding a hard to find album is almost like winning the lotto, until you see how much it cost! I try to budget $500 a month for records, sadly go over that a lot. Just picked up a sealed Hendrix, that I have been searching for.
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