Turntable recommendation
My wife and I are looking into getting a turntable. It would get light use as we mostly stream music via Qobuz. Current system is Bluesound Node, Yamaha CD-S303, Schiit Saga+, Schiit Vidar, NSMT Chorus 25 speakers and NSMT EXP15 sub. We do not have a record collection as of yet. Based on current gear and the fact that it will get light use. What makes sense? The $379 Yamaha CD player gets light use as well. Seems like a reasonable place to start budget-wise unless its all junk at this price point.
Why bother? If you are happy with streaming, why would you want to commit to the expense of building a vinyl option? A good turntable is expensive. A good cartridge is expensive. A good phono amp is expensive. Building a vinyl collection is very expensive. Spending that much for something that will get "light use" makes very little sense. Vinyl is a commitment, not a whim.
|
I get tremendous enjoyment out of my (now classic?) old Technics SL-1200 MK2 with an Ortofon Red cartridge. Many on this forum insist that anything less than a mega thousand TT (only belt drive accepted) equipped with a MC cartridge feeding into a multi thousand-dollar phono amp will pass muster, As they say, let your ears be the arbiter. You are operating in the same price sphere as myself. Unless you are a golden ear, lots of great options out there for under $1K, all in. |
If you want new with warranty a Schiit Mani (phono preamp) and a Rega P1 (it comes with a decent cartridge) would run around $750. I listened to the P1 last year when I was demoing a pair of speakers and liked the sound through a Rega integrated/phono amp. The Mani is positively reviewed. Fluance decks (less expensive than Rega P1) seem to be well received, but they lack VTA adjustment which would make them a no-go for me (others don't seem to mind).
DeKay |
As someone who listens to 95% or more vinyl, I have to say that if you’re currently used to streaming and CD, unless you’re committed to a significant investment I think you’re setting yourself up for a disappointment. Vinyl on a budget is pretty much an oxymoron today. That said, vinyl can also become an obsession and provide a musical experience like no other (IMHO), but it does come at a steep price. Best of luck to you whatever path you choose! |
Under $500 is not worth it, closer to $1K to start in my opinion. I'd suggest one of the Rega models also, multiple price ranges, they can come complete with a decent cartridge, so no fiddling with set up. Their whole line gets great reviews. Easy to resell if you get into serious record playing/collecting, it's also a good match for your current system or even if you upgrade a bit. I would agree that most of the Technics tables are a good choice also. I have owned them in the past. I own a small record collection (100 new and used) and own a Rega P6 with their installed cartridge. I disagree with those discouraging you. True, you may not use it much, I use my table maybe 2-3 times a week, but enjoy spinning and buying albums none-the-less. |
First of all, what are your plans as far as buying LP’s (please don't call them "vinyls". Records is fine ;-)? And what music do you like and listen to? If your disposable income limits your LP budget, and you are intending to buy only new LP’s, assembling a music library is going to take you quite a while. A lot of LP enthusiasts have been so for a long time, slowly building a library over the years. Are you young enough to start now? As far as gear upon which to play LP’s, unless you stumble upon an amazing deal (a yard or estate sale) $379 ain’t gonna cut it. A good record cleaning machine (a virtual necessity for used LP’s) alone will cost you at least that much. On the other hand, if you have a local source for cheap used LP’s (and the music you favour is available on them), you can get a quality "starter" record player for maybe $500. A used Rega or AR ES-1 would be good choices. Add A Schitt Mani phono amp and a Record Doctor cleaning machine, and you’re in business! As others said above, figure a grand to get started. If you’ve never experienced the LP phenomenon, be forewarned: it is addicting. ;-) |
I recommend this Audio Technica to get started NOTE: ALL phono signals are weak and non-equalized, they need to be both pre-amplified up to LINE level and EQualized via industry standard RIAA. (Bass gets boosted/highs get cut) AT120 has a built in Phono EQ, to boost and convert non-equalized phono signal to LINE, so it can be connected to any LINE/AUX input, IF you have a separate MM Phono Input (moving magnet cartridge type, most common) , you can turn the eq in the TT off. ............................................... IF you really get into LPs, then you might want to upgrade: 1st a better cartridge, 2nd a 'better' TT |
@elliottbnewcombjr +1! This AT turntable for $328 is a very good choice! I'd add the Schiit Mani ($160) and a Grado Prestige cartridge ($90). The Mani and Grado are considerably better than what comes with the AT. Regarding the advice about a record cleaning machine - you don't need one if all you play are brand new LPs. Those don't need cleaning! Stay away from secondhand LPs - surface quality varies widely depending upon prior usage. Just buy new ones. |
For a budget of $1K the Pioneer PLX1000 ($699) with the Schiit Mani ($160) plus Grado Prestige ($90) and AT record weight ($38) comes in under the wire! Check out the review of the PLX1000 by Herb Reichert a few years back in the Stereophile archives. I bought one when I wanted to add a brand new turntable to my collection. |
jasonbourne71, OP My suggestion for a cartridge upgrade. It has both wide channel separation and tight channel balance, which yields improved imaging. That TT has a removable headshell, having the upgrade cartridge pre-mounted in a headshell is an advantage. https://www.audio-technica.com/en-us/cartridges/type/moving-magnet/vm540ml-h It has an advanced stylus shape, Microline, info here https://www.sound-smith.com/articles/stylus-shape-information Yes, center weight, good idea I use this one https://www.audio-technica.com/en-us/at618a btw, I don't work for Audio Technica, they just make well priced good stuff!
|
Nothing wrong with dipping your toes into vinyl, and seeing where it goes. You can build a nice collection a little at time. There are solid choices in the $500 range. Much of the quality boils down the cartridge and the phono stage. I've been running a modest AT-LP120X (modified) with a couple of good carts for 3 years, and have been totally happy. Several of the AT tables come with the AT-VM95E cartridge, which is a nice entry level cart, plus it has a great upgrade path with the ML and SH needles. The Fluance RT85 offers a decent table with a good Ortofon 2M Blue cart.
|
Another vote for the AT 120. Have it in my man cave system. Out of the box it just works exactly as advertised. The cart is just fine. All for under $400. Sure it’s not as refined as getting into the 2 to 3k range, but that’s not the point here I think. Also vote for the Rega P1 and entry NAD, (pretty much siblings anyway). IMO one can’t go wrong with either the AT or the Rega. Beware, it’s easy to start here then in no time spend close to 5k on a nice TT, cart, and phon preamp. Not to mention untold amounts on LP’s. |
I recommend you look at a P2 or P3 Rega turntable. Rega has been making tables for 50 years. Their tables look great as well in my opinion. I can totally relate as I mainly stream music as well but you can’t replicate the feel and experience of the large artwork, record and dropping the needle. A lot of fun and just super nostalgic feeling. Best of luck on your new journey. |
vinylvin. OP A lot of TT’s, like the one you listed have tonearms with fixed cartridges. I recommend tonearms with a removable headshell, to use the OEM provided cartridge, and have an alternate upgrade. IF you upgrade to a different TT, if a removable headshell, then you can easily move your headshell(s)/cartridges to it somewhere along the line learning alignment skills. |
Pro-ject has a bunch of options within your budget. About 15 years ago I bought a $1000 Pro-ject, inc tonearm and cartridge, to get back into vinyl after a 20 year absence. Provided a great tie in the water - I’ve since added two restored vintage tts to my collection, but the Pro-ject remains in my third system (with new cartridge, of course). |
With what little experience I've gained over the years, if I were starting from scratch with vinyl I would probably start with the Fluance RT85. In it's price range it's been highly rated by a number of reviewers. https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2020/06/19/fluance-rt85-reference-turntable-review/ |
While I would never tell someone not to get into vinyl, I would just say keep your expectations in check to avoid disappointment. Lots of good choices from the above. I would recommend by the research I have done would be the Pro -ject Debut carbon pro. It has some nice upgrade features that can compare with some more expensive tt's, also has a decent cartridge included all for $999. If you can stretch your budget another $150, you can get a Schiit Mani 2 phono preamp also. Just one of many selections. IMHO |
Get yourself a brand new technics mk7...they now come in color of your choice. For a cartridge, grab a premounted (on headshell) audio technica of your choice. Amazon sells a ton of AT cartridges. The AT520eb is a good one. The mani will suffice as a phono preamp, but I’d maybe look for a musical fidelity lx2 lps, great sounding budget phono preamp. Or even a Graham slee communicator. I own a technics mk7 in black, it’s a great turntable. The others I own are significantly more expensive, but the technics sounds good and is fun to use (important). As far as starting a record collection, look to thrift stores and eBay, also discogs. Unless you are looking for some rare hard to find record for big bucks, you should do OK finding some good quality records. Lastly, you will need a way to clean the records. I’d recommend a manual set up such as vinyl revival (UK). Thorens is selling a great line of turntables...check those out as well. Almost forgot, the music hall classic turntable is very nice for the money...uni pivot arm, removeable headshell, and comes with pre-installed mounted cartridge. You don't need to spend a fortune to get decent sound.
|
I never knew much about Ortofon’s. You are right, that is a nice and easy upgrade path, AND you do not need to realign the cartridge!!! https://www.ortofon.com/om-series-p-550 Interesting that the channel separation gets wider as you upgrade; channel balance tightens. It's a nice light tracking force as well!!!
|
Rega RP-1 and Schitt Mani. Plenty good for a serious start, upgrade later if you get the bug (listen to all your records first and enjoy the great sound, then upgrade with the RP-1 Performance Pack ($250) and listen to them again). |
very good question. I kept most of my records from the 60's and have about 1000 now. And agree with others, you will need a RCM at some point. I used to clean mine by hand - total PITA, even for an old retired guy. Even new records must be cleaned - part of the process. As others have stated, this can get addicting. But its fun, and its great listening to lots of new music from all over the world - I just discovered Discogs and there are a TON of great classical records for next to nothing - just got a copy of Glenn Gould Goldberg Variations for $30 incl shipping. In any case, you will need to figure in TT, cartridge, pre-amp + RCM. If your current setup includes a pre-amp then you will need to check that the pre-amp matches the cartridge. Most MM have an output of around 2-5mV vs .2mV or so for a MC cartridge. In your case, MM would be a great entry point, or MI. In any case, matching the cart with the pre-amp is essential. As others have stated, used is a good option also. Anyway, good luck with your decision, whichever way you go. I much prefer vinyl for the listening experience. I rarely listen to music as background. I do have a couple of new friends who are <30 years who have just started vinyl - I need to ask them how they listen ie background or actually sitting and listening, which is what I do. |
@op, the best solution is to buy worn out records cheaply and look at the LP artwork and sleevenotes while streaming. I'm only being slightly facetious. A small collection of LPs is going to cost north of €1,000 and a decent vinyl source will cost at least the same i.e. to the standard of a Rega 3 TT plus cartridge plus phono stage of some kind. You could make a significant improvement to your system for that budget without diverting it into another source that, while sounding different, won't necessarily sound better. |
I happen to be budget constrained. My main turn tables are old, but very good for their time. I think my Kenwood KD 550 was around $400 (Tax refund) it was a demonstrator and it came with a Shure V 15. So I'm going to recommend an entry level Rega or Pro-Ject. A Pro-Ject Debut Carbon just replaced my dedicated Mono TT. I found a "as new", with a Pro-Ject phono amp for substantially under $500 (But the darned shipping!" Phono cartridges at the five hundred level of turntables will probably come with a Ortofon 2m Red, which can be upgraded to an elliptical 2m Blue with a stylus change, but not cheap. The 2m Red is a acceptable cartridge. Or a Sumiko. For occasional use don't get bogged down in the esoteric BS, for your purposes elliptical or spherical isn't an issue, Orbit has a USA made line of entry level turntables, and their Orbit Theory is a consideration in the magic $999 field. Vinyl might not be your thing, it demands physical participation, it's sort of an immersive thing. If you do like records, well then, the world will be your oyster. Used record stores Discogs (a great place to learn, buy and sell) 2nd hand stores (I include antique stores here, and even flea bay...). You probably are not going to start out with rare and collectable LP's, no reason to spend crazy money. You won't need a 1K ultrasonic record cleaner.... a couple of you tube vids should get you going on basic TT set-up, record cleaning, care, etc. Enjoy! |
I cycle through streaming, CDs and vinyl on a daily basis a few times a week. I don't have a huge vinyl collection, it's very focused on certain artists and certain albums I love. The same goes for my CD collection. I think a REGA P1 plus would be a good option w/ the integrated pre-amp. Doesn't break the bank and gets you above most entry-level phonographs out there. And you can easily upgrade cartridges as time goes on at you and your wife get more into spinning vinyl. Eventually you may find yourself upgrading the deck with a separate phono pre-amp which then opens up the vinyl listening experience even more - rediscovering things you may have missed on albums you're familiar with and finding new ones to enjoy. Just be careful...it's contagious and you soon find yourself on Discogs or perusing local shops for albums that aren't on streaming platforms or old favs you forgot about. I enjoy listening to certain albums on vinyl / CD more so than I do streaming the same. As others have said, it's a different listening experience as it's more intentional than streaming IMO. Honestly, if you could I would start w/ something in the $500-$1000 range and work up from there after you've had time to decide if you love the vinyl experience. And your initial investment is not over-the-top. |
| Post removed |
Choosing the TT will be fine, for your budget there will be many options. Going for vintage will most likely require additional monies are required to be spent, as a service will be required, and if done by a skilled individual advisories might be supplied, suggesting other parts are exchanged. The first Cart' or even second Cart', need not be too costly, these are very fragile, and a incident is always lurking where the Cart' is the part that comes out the worst. On this type of experience having been met, you are not alone. One other thing to consider as ownership and usage evolves, and one that can really benefit a TT, is considerations for how it is mounted. A Equipment Stand/Rack, Wall Shelf, or dedicated Table. All will benefit from having a Sub Plinth and Footers used to support the TT. The learning of how differing configurations influence the sonic being produced, is not needing to be expensive. The results that can be attained will really impress. |
I always recommend against getting into vinyl for newbies. Good new turntables start at $1000 go waaaay up from there. It's very easy to drop $1000 on just the cartridge. Not every tone arm works well with every cartridge. |
@njwvista My assessment of my experience with Vinyl as a source is different to @russbutton I have experienced very satisfactory music replays on equipment that has not been met with quite so expensive purchase prices for the supporting ancillaries to create a replay, especially in relation to the TT>TA>Cartridge. Buying Vintage is a way to reduce a cost, but as said, additional monies may need to be parted with to get the best from it, especially if a DD TT is the selected model. Other designs could just require a simple Platter Bearing Service and many TT's have pictorial guidance available on how to achieve this. There is plenty in other posts as a direction that will mean that these suggestions are only to broaden your knowledge of choices, as a late adopter of the medium, as a new user or returning user, a New TT like the AT shown will be just fine. When it comes to collecting Vinyl, there is a cost, but in some cases a cost that can show an appreciation over time. Vinyl today as a medium, is of interest to more than those interested in audio, it is being collected as a commodity for these very reasons. Used sales sites even have a App that enables one to track their collections value on a daily basis, which is very commodity market like as a practice. Here is a experience had by myself that is only a few years old. I had a shortlist for some Vinyl Album Purchases, mainly being reserved as Birthday and Xmas gifts. Over the course of a Year, one wanted Album heard many times as a CD and remaining readily available as a CD today, slipped through my list of purchases made. I held off on the idea, and decided it would be a Easter Treat, when pulling the trigger on the purchase the Album that was once £30 and not much more than a year from release was approx' £700 to purchase as Vinyl. There is not any reason to avoid buying Vinyl, it is today one type of the Hard Media Merchandise, that is being readily made available by Performers, which is enabling Performers and those that support them, to receive fair remuneration for their work, in a much larger measure than streaming royalties will pass onto them. This in itself means Vinyl is being produced in smaller batches, as it is funded to be produced directly by the Performers, and will at times peak for the demand, which can mean prices that are showing appreciation. |
To prove the asking prices seen, will today be difficult, as the sites used to look for this Album are not holding records of the Maximum asking prices, but only the highest prices for a completed sale. The Performer is Lee Harvey Osmond and the Album of interest was 'Beautiful Scars', the good news is that this Album is once more available for very reasonable monies as it most likely a new batch of pressings was done. I bought the 'Mohawk' Titled Album as soon as I had seen it released. Albums that I own as the earliest pressings and are with other re-released versions since the earliest pressings, which as a result of previous investigation, have done well in appreciative value, are Pink Floyd 'The Pulse' ( my one is still in Cellophane ) and Roger Water 'Amused to Death'. I have in the past seen the original release Pulse Album on Vinyl, opened and used have a £900 asking price. My Wife spent many hours in used Vinyl Outlets when CD took the audio market by storm. She done well and owns very 'mint' early pressings of Bowie and the Rolling Stones, I assume these will be appreciative in value, as these Genre's were usually found on the £1-2 Section within a shop. I have collected a range of Chicago Blues Artists in this same era, a friend tried to purchase one I have that has a £1 Price Label stuck on the Cover, the best he could find after a long search, was over £50 for the same EAN No' Album. . A friend recently visited a shop selling donated items on behalf of a Charity. A Box of Classical Albums were purchased for £25, on investigation, it was discovered one Album contained in the Box was worth twice the purchase price of the entire box. If @njwvista get the bug, and makes time to delve through yard sales and other sources for used vinyl, they can grow a nice Album Collection, and the is nothing to say it will one that is not appreciating in value. As an aside, there are today Artists arranging contracts with their Record Companies, where their work (Albums) 'must' achieve a pre-selected Quantity of Hard Media Sales, prior to the Work being released to Streaming Services, for the likes of Adele, it is said 100 000 Hard Media Albums 'must be sold. For lesser Artists and those able to cut a deal, I assume the quantity will be much less, this in itself creates a rarity to the Hard Media being offered, and maybe a second pressing will be considered by the Record Company if the demand remains high. Today a substantial quantity of Hard Media is produced by the Performers and it sold on a Merchandise Product, as the Performers are funding this themselves, the batches produced will be limited in number. I today, have a collection of Vinyl Albums purchased as a result of supporting Crowd Funding. I see this a very helpful way to support New Upcoming Performers. This same method has also proved useful to getting access to established performers Vinyl Albums, that are not able to get the best support from the main markets. |
I hope all this hasn’t changed your mind about delving into vinyl. Personally, I have a $2800 Music Hall 9.3, a $700 phono preamp with MC loading options and about 200 Albums. My investment into enjoying LPs is fairly reasonable for what I am getting out of it. And that is pure enjoyment of the format! I love the sound and as an engineer I very much enjoy the whole process of playing albums. Everything from the turntable setup to cart selection. The audible sound difference you can get with different cart loading or small VTA adjustments. And overall I just feel more connected to the music. If I’m home, and I just want something playing in the background, I tend to stream music using Qobuz or Tidal. And yes, they sound good, but it’s a very low effort to just let them run in the background. When I want to listen to music, I play vinyl. I just enjoy it more. I compare it to people who drive there, Toyota Sequoia to work every day, but on the weekends, they drag their 66 Mustang out of the garage. That 66 Mustang doesn’t get better fuel mileage, it doesn’t stop better, it’s not as comfortable or as safe, and it certainly takes more effort to drive. But in all that, it’s a hell of a lot more fun than the Toyota sequoia! That’s vinyl for me.. I agree with a lot of recommendations above. The REGA P1, the Fluance RT85, the Music Hall Classic or the 3.3 is an excellent choice along with the Mani as recommended would get you going. I think a great reasonable cartridge is an Ortofon Blue. If you happen to have a red, you can update just the stylus to a blue or beyond and make it a significantly better cartridge. As far as vinyl? I pick and choose a few new albums and yes, they can be pricey. But my wife watches craigslist and Facebook and it’s not unusual to see people dumping large collections for very short money. I will usually buy a bunch of these records at 3 to 5 dollars apiece take them home and give them a good cleaning. I must be really lucky because it’s actually unusual for me to find a piece of vinyl that is unplayable. The majority the stuff I get is still like new, after cleaning that is. And for cleaning? Or use a simple $79 spin clean. It’s pretty manual but it works really good. I’ll get a bunch a Albums and I’ll just clean five or 10 of them a night until they are done. My suggestion is to use just slightly warm water. And as someone else said, you have to clean the new stuff too. I’ve had absolutely completely unplayable vinyl that was brand new. After cleaning, it was silent and played perfectly. I hope you enjoy your new venture into a a vintage audio format as I do! |
