Transparent Audio is anything but Transparent

Sorry to hear about your difficulties.
 

I always deal with my local dealer for Transparent cables, Echo Audio (they also do internet sales). They are fantastic. They will knowledgeably discuss the nuances of difference between generations and Tiers.

Transparent is just like all the other cable companies taking advantage of the gullible by clever advertising and obfuscation! 

So they are screwing over their lesser customers, which could very well be me. Because If I buy their used cables from a dealer, and later, rather than using the upgrade system, I go to sell them third party,Transparent will not verify them or even give an opinion. That's how you thank people for owning your product? 

Far out. A nice read.

Refusal to authenticate second-hand goods is the norm these days. For example, in the luxury space, you can't get a Louis Vuitton or Chloe handbag authenticated by the respective manufacturers. This is increasingly the case because the counterfeits are so good, even employees can't recognize them.

I did a consulting project a few years ago for one of the world's top luxury conglomerates, looking for both grey market and counterfeit sites on the internet. During that time, I met in Geneva with the commercial director of one of the world's most exclusive watch brands. He showed me a watch that someone bought online, thinking he was saving 35% on the cost. The watch stopped working, and he brought it to an authorized dealer in San Francisco. They looked at it, determined that it needed to go back to the manufacturer in Geneva, and sent it. In Geneva, the manufacturer's employees opened the package, inspected the watch, and sent it to the master watchmakers on the factory floor. It was only when it was examined by the master watchmakers that they were told the product was a counterfeit. 

I tracked down the source of the counterfeit watch. It cost some scammer about $1000, which the scammer married to a counterfeit register receipt, right down to the terminal ID and the name of the employee who supposedly sold it (cost: ~$50). Then they turned around and sold it on an online store for $40,000. 

And yes, the counterfeit looked that good. Nobody is going to authenticate anything of value anymore. It's too easy to make a convincing knockoff, and the authenticator gets no benefit and all liability (whether loss of reputation or by being sued).

I am not a customer of Transparent cables, though I have had the opportunity to demo their cables. You appear to have more of an issue that they would not validate or make an assumption on a used product that you wanted to buy on eBay. I completely understand why they wound not and would point you to a dealer for confirmation.

How are they screwing the sellers in the secondhand market? More unethical practice committed in this market segment than by Authorized Dealers, just read the pages in this forum.

Karen at Transparent is trying to maintain the value in her product line in both the Primary and Secondary Market. Who can fault her for this?

Transparent is not the only manufacturer to take this position and I for one think it is awesome. They are trying to protect the brands that they built and have integrity in the secondary market.

Now of course there are the "Conspiracy theorist" (Transparent is just like all the other cable companies taking advantage of the gullible by clever advertising and obfuscation!) That see this a move by "Big Cable" (laughable like they are big Pharma or Insurance Companies) companies to shite on the secondary market and inflate pricing. They are only selling what the market is demanding and it is clear the demand is higher for Integrity, Quality, and Authenticity than fakes. I know it is a big capitalist’s scam!

I for one am a CAPITALIST and agree with "Big Cable" I congratulate companies like Transparent Audio, for initiating a Upgrade Program, to add and preserve the value and the integrity of their brand.  Cardas, Transparent, and other high end cables come with a "Certificate of Authenticity" . This is done to preserve the value and integrity of the product and to protect the "Consumer" in the secondary market. I am going to assume that your eBay seller did not have this?

We all want a deal, we want to fly first class for coach prices, we all want new cars for the price of used. Fact is business cannot remain viable by being socialist’s. If you want quality you are going to have to pay, and if you cannot afford it then you must compromise. No BMW’s for KIA prices here.

Their reply was “We can never guarantee the authenticity or functionality of products being sold by anyone other than our authorized dealers. If you choose to purchase from third parties, those purchases are made caveat emptor. If you’d like to be absolutely certain you are purchasing authentic Transparent products, I recommend you shop our network of authorized dealers.

So it’s clear to me, that this article wanting you to take advantage of buying used and answering your concerns was just a bunch of propaganda. Thanks for nothing.

Here is a link to the actual WBF thread. For those interested. 

@classicrockfan wont go that far. Look at other options like Wireworld, Signal Cable, RSX Technologies, Zavfino, DH Labs. I gravitate to OCC cables. But you can use an old extension cord on your system, just not my system.

Well put! OP try Ebay/Amazon and do your own research. You’ll find excellent audio cables for far less money like 1/10, 1/20 and use that money to upgrade your DAC and go to a concert with your wife (or gf) on a Sunday.

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I don't have a problem with Transparent's stance on this. It is surprising that anyone would think they should spend their time authenticating 2nd hand cables. 

@classicrockfan so why persecute those who can and do have better systems and income?  

@audio_is_subjective +1, except for your gratuitous use of apostrophe's 😉

All of you. You all missing my point. Say what you do, and do what you say. Don't say one thing,and do another. Read the article. It doesn't come close to reality.

Bit late OP I posted it a few hours ago.

Read it again for the third time. Stick by my post, by the way it is not an article it is a thread on a forum like yours. Also if you followed the Gen5 cables would have to tuned/programmed to your system. So you will still need to work through a dealer and why should they do this for free. Yep BMW for a KIA price. 

@steakster

The market where I bought the watch had knock-offs from every major international designer imaginable. You name it - clothing, jewelry, shoes, fashion accessories, etc. The vendors were honest and said that all the items were fake. But where did they come from? The same factory as the real merchandise or somewhere else? The vendors wouldn’t say.

The old school way of creating such high fidelity fakes was called the "5-to-9 shift". The same factories where the real goods were made during the 9-to-5 shift were used to make the knock-offs in the off hours. Same materials, same craftsmanship, just no legit serial numbers and don’t tell the boss.

The newer way has been to disassemble items, 3D scan them, and then use 3D printing technologies to reproduce the parts and then assemble copies. This is way too costly for anything other than very expensive small items, like luxury watches.

As an aside, the person who employed me used to own the 4th Ferrari P3, a mean feat given that only 3 were ever produced. He commissioned the 4th, which was a counterfeit made in Thailand. He used to take it to World Trade Organization meetings and to various trade meetings in the EU to illustrate the extent of counterfeiting problems. It alway caught people’s eyes... until it caught fire... at least that part of Italian auto engineering was faithfully reproduced 🏎 🔥

bubba12 They have the right to run their business anyway they wish. That’s not my point.

Since I started this thread, I have had a lot accusations thrown at me that have absolutely nothing to do with my original point/complaint. My point has always been, if you’re going to say what you do, then please, do what you say. That is what I expected, so I was thrown for a loop.

Karen tread was prompting us to take advantage of resale opportunity's and telling us to feel free to ask her questions if you are considering purchasing some preowned Transparent. That is far from reality. If she was honest about her business model, the thread would have been one sentence. Buy used from the dealer, keep upgrading or we’re through with you. There you go, I can accept that. What I can accept is bull.

 Maybe I will go ahead and buy used or new from a dealer. I will register them making it no secret I have these OEM cables. Later things change. I decide I to need to sell the cables. Even though these cables, with this serial number, are register to marshinski, with this address, email and this phone number, Transparent won’t confirm to any potential buyer they’re good. That my name is registered to that serial number. That’s not how you thank people for owning your product, which also invertedly gets auditioned to your family and friends.

There are two kind of fakes. One is OEM manufacturer also manufacture extra numbers and sends to some other wholesaler who sells it cheaper. The purchaser gets original part but no brand. Second is copy of some expensive and fast moving items and very cheap. Only visual appearance and usage can tell the difference between 3. Transparent product description in website and price implies cable has some kind of AI tech/chip which modifies SQ. Still there are large section of people who consider snake oil selling.

The OP seems bent for not getting a freebie at the manufacturers expense so that the OP can save money. That doesn’t seem like a victim but rather an opportunist. 

I'm not addressing directly your issue: I take advantage of the thread to point out a "form" issue of Transparent Audio that always annoyed me. A personal rant.

How can a cable with a bulge between the two ends be called Transparent is beyond me. Imagine a photo/video lens with a box between the front lens and back lens.

What is it? All but transparent. Call them Enhanced Audio cables, Boosted Audio cables, Improved Audio cables, Augmented Audio cables, ... Whatever you want, not transparent, please.

Let alone the whole "calibration" thing: does Transparent Audio have the guts to enter a recording studio and propose their cables and its calibration process? They will either gently decline or laugh at them in face in the worst case.

I know many appreciate their cables. Good for them. I just always feel fooled when I see those cables.

@marcoklobas well said couldn't agree more. 

marshinski15

Thank You the post. The upper tier TA cables/cords will have a Serial Number (S/N). I will second, Echo Audio. Big fan here of TA cabling. Keep me posted on your purchase decision.

Happy Listening!

Nowhere in the linked post do TA state that they will remotely verify cables bought through a third party, let alone in advance of purchase. How could they. They do generously offer to recalibrate, modify, etc such cable for a reasonable fee and presumably with the cables then in hand can verify authenticity, or not.

OP seems to be being very unreasonable to me.

Sorry to hear about your experience. I have actually had GREAT customer service from them always. Every time I call/email Ian has been so super responsive and up front. I live in NH, and they're in ME so every time I order I get my cables next day. I also love their cables even though they are super expensive (even used).

What I don't love is that if you're going brand new there are no deals to be had even from their local dealers no matter how much you buy. But I guess they would even business was bad, no?

Don't see how TA is screwing anyone over. 

What works in one persons system does not always reflect what will work in yours.  Different components have different requirements for AC.  You have to try first.  When you grow up, you can then build your own if you know the secrets. 

Happy Listening

Transparent Audio want prospective customers to buy pre-owned cables from their Dealers. That is the best way for the company to ensure the integrity of their products.

If one buys anything on the grey or pre-owned market, it is always a case of caveat emptor.

Buying privately versus from a dealer is a tradeoff between the price (assuming that the private buyer is passing on their lack of overheads) on the one hand and service/backup on the other.

I always dealt directly with Transparent, though technically my orders always went through my local dealer. They always provided great service and a great product, and were especially helpful with special orders...

I think your expectations were way to high but that is my opinion.

How on earth would a company "recalibrate" these fancy speaker cables?

I do not use their products, however they have been in business for over 40 years, have a very loyal following and in this modern business climate, that is quite an accomplishment.

Transparent is one of the companies that created a unique situation. The cables have to be setup for a specific component. If you did not buy it new they can charge a lot to setup a used cable. If you are the certified owner they will do that for free or a small fee. This prevents counterfeit cables and sales of cables on the used market. I would ask the seller on eBay if he can arrange for your cables to set them up. 
I was having a watch serviced at a jewelry store. I over heard the salesman that the Rolex she just bought a few days ago would have to be sent back to Rolex to be certified again at her expense. The only part I would not agree with is did the store tell her that at the time of purchase. I feel some retail stores are messing around with information to lock in a sale. Trust everyone, but verify. 
this company also did this to me by trying not to give me all the links to the new factory watch bracelet I bought. In the end I had it in writing. 
There are so many fakes coming out of other countries that some say they are exact copies. Apparently we can’t do anything about it. 

One reason I purchase from well known brands is because I plan to resell it someday. Who would buy a Mercedes if you knew you couldn't resell because the manufacturer won't sell you parts or a dealer won't repair it because you didn't purchase the car from them? I recently purchased a set of 8 speaker isolators from ebay. The manufacturer doesn't include the bolts that are needed for KEF speaker stands.  The needed bolts can be ordered for free from a dealer. No dealer would order the bolts for me because I didn't buy from them, even if I agreed to buy the bolts. I was able to find a company in England that would sell me the bolts and I was happy to pay for them. 

@classicrockfan Yes indeed. In my world there is no need for solving second order differential equations. In my world I pay people do those menial tasks using a program called Python. As I am a Metallurgist / Tribologist with a MSME not  a Biologist or Economist (thinking your are the latter as from your other posts, deductive reasoning) I have no need for that skill. I also have much better writing skills that helps me to communicate my point to my direct reports and customers. Really it boils down to one thing in my current station in life "Everything I need to know in life I learned in kindergarten.

Enjoy your Sunday, maybe take an online writing class. 

No way to find out who makes more money who has better amps/speakers... but one thing i know for sure is that i know how to solve second order differential equations... you don't.

I have a 12 foot pair of ultras if you are interested. Had them for years and they are the real deal. Message  me if u are interested.  

I have a 12 foot pair of ultras if you are interested. Had them for years and they are the real deal. Message  me if you are interested.  

I think all Transparent Audio was trying to do was to have you contact your closest dealer to ask your questions to. I don’t think they are somehow being malicious or talking out both sides of their mouth. I mean that is why they have a dealer network. In addition to dealers supporting and promoting their products, they also want them to be able to guide prospective buyers in making and helping to validate their buying decisions.  Takes some of the support efforts off the manufacturer if a reputable and well trained dealer can be the person to assist with your questions and concerns. 

Echo Audio is a great place to buy Transparent, including a wide selection of used trade in. While i am not a fan, the longevity of the business and brand certainly says something. I am also certainly no cable denier.

As an aside, I am an Economist… certainly able to do all kinds of fun math… there are significant difference between a BA or BS… and higher…..

My writing skills, another matter…..

@marshinski15 

I feel your pain on both points!  I don't start posts much anymore as so many people pick up on one aspect and start off on a tangent and the actual question is ignored.  This lead to others responding to their topic and the OP is left scratching their head lol

Now to your post.  I had the exact same experience when I started my Transparent journey last year.  I emailed their support email asking for comparisons across both generation and level.  They have 10 levels that almost exactly doubles in price at each jump.  I think it is fair that anyone considering or currently using would wonder how Reference MM2 compares to Ultra Gen 5, for example.  Ian politely told me they simply do not ever attempt this.  All he would say is that each level up is an improvement and separately each generation is an improvement.  

I spoke with a dealer and his advice to me was that Gen 5 was a significant upgrade across the board for Transparent.  He suggested I not consider any level below that if I was starting with Transparent.  He also said that Gen 6 was not impressive and worth the extra expense unless you were in the top 3 or 4 levels.

I believe Transparent could be more open with their clients and offer similar advice.  I am also an Audio Research fan and have similar conversations with them where they were very open about cross-generation and level comparisons.

I suppose at the end of the day you/we never know until we pull the trigger and just try something.  FWIW, I ended up going with a mix of Gen 5 Super and Ultra simply based on how used opportunities presented themselves when I was buying.

Good luck.

@marshinski15  I called and asked “how do MM2 Ultras stack up against the G5 Supers. I was literally told that they don’t give out that information.

It seems like they could have shared their impressions on the improvements or difference in sound quality of the G5 Supers vs. MM2 Ultras?  However, their opinion probably wouldn’t mean much to you until you hear it for yourself.

I purchased used Cardas Clear Light speaker cables and interconnects a few years ago.  I shipped the speaker cables to Cardas to have them shorten the length and re-terminate them.  They confirmed the authenticity and gave them a new authentication number after they serviced them.  I later upgraded to the Cardas Clear cable loom as I like their sound and customer service.

I don’t see how Transparent Audio would be able to authenticate cables by looking at photos that you sent to them?  Would you be comfortable with them authenticating by photos?  I imagine they would confirm authenticity if you physically shipped them to Transparent.  

Dude, that’s just the tip of the iceberg. The whole thing is a lie, the whole industry is one big lie. One day it will all become apparent! And even then people will not believe that it’s all a big lie. Shame shame shame as Gomer Paul used to say!