I have been an avid Audiogon reader over the past 10 years and have learned a lot from the community and have come to trust the advice I read on here over most other platforms.
Did a lot of listening during lockdown and I decided that I really like vintage audio. I recently purchased a vintage HH Scott, Type 200 tube amp with separate Tuner, which are currently being reconditioned.
In addition, I have a Thorens TD-145, which has an upgraded 8" Jelco arm and Ortofon 2M blue cart (plan to upgrade tot he bronze in the very near future).
For speakers I have the KEF LS50s that are currently connected to a Music Hall 15.3 50W amp (which is being replaced with the HH Scott).
I want to replace the KEFs with speakers that at least look vintage, i.e. does not need to be vintage just want a wooden box like the Klipsch Heresy IV, Harbeth 30.1, etc. that have a large deep sound stage/excellent imaging.
I have heard and really like the Klipsch Heresy IV and the Harbeth 30.1. The issue as per the title, is that my listening room is tiny. I actually had my system in several different locations in my home but being non-dedicated spaces it did not get nearly the use that it has in this small room.
I have searched the web, including all previous audigon posts, for the "best speakers" for small rooms and the definition of a small room is very subjective (i.e., I have read several posts where it was defined as 15' x 15' or smaller). The best I could come up with is speakers for near field listening, most of which are low sensitivity and not ideal for a 12W tube amp (that said the KEFs can easily reach levels that are well beyond comfortable using the Scott before I sent it to be reconditioned).
Right now my KEFs are approximately 4 ft apart, about a foot off the wall, and my head when sitting is about 6 feet away. They are current on isoacoustic stands on solid walnut shelfs that are bolted to the wall at ear level.
Now comes the question.
What speakers should I try to audition that fit the following criteria?
1. Wood vintage look.
2. Small enough for the room. Again I would go for the Heresy IV, which would fit, but I am sure are way to big for the space.
3. Open airy soundstage. I have a sound in my noodle that I keep searching for, which I can only describe as a Fender Strat played on a 65 Princeton Reverb. Again the Klipsch and Harbeth mentioned above came as close to what I imagine I am looking for as possible.
4. Finally, I would like to keep the price under $3K.
The higher end bookshelf speaker category is among the most competitive and qualitative market in the hi-fi arena. I also had LS 50s in a small room and I thought those were/are excellent for the price ($1,500)
Having said that, I found that the Bowers & Wilkins 705 S2 (new model is S3) as a beautiful wooden finished speaker as well as a premium and accurate sounding speaker for the price (3-4,000 range).
The quality of the driver and the exterior mounted tweeter blend the high and low end sound beautifully. The upgraded crossovers help push pure sound through the unit itself.and if you use a small sub-woofer (REL t/zero or t/5) to augment the low end extremely well. I also looked at Focal and KEF bookshelfs, but ultimately the B & W's won me over.
Since speakers are subjective to the individual's ear, I wish you the best in selecting your replacement speakers and I know you will be pleased based upon the choices in this category
Im in a 10 by 13’ dedicated room...If prices are true (vinylvalet) that would be pretty descent...i ended up with atc 19v2 which i got after having the 11’s.I could have settled for the 11’s but felt that 19’s would be gnawing at me and wanted to get the most for $ while i could.I thought that they would be too big at first but they have surprised me how well controlled they are.I think meta would be good.The atc 7 would be really nice...buy power they like.harbeth is one id like to try but atc is solid performer and cant justify right now.
I'm using the ProAc Tablette 10 in a room that's similar size, w/ Thorens TD-160 Super reproduction turntable, Akitika amp, Schiit Vidar preamp. I absolutely love them. I'd circulated a bunch of different speakers before settling on these. I have the Dentons too, and they sound great in my living room (bigger room) but sound stuffy and boomy in the small room.
Well in a room that size you think you would get no bass. Right, you don't. You can put a sub in there and turn it up but it's not quite the same. So why not consider installing the speakers in the floor or a wall and effectively make the small room the inside of the speaker. If you have that opportunity it wouldn't be that hard to design it. Otherwise you will spend a lifetime of changing speakers and asking for advice. My audio room handles only a 40-50 foot wavelength, so I opened it up to the hall which is 60' long to get it flat to 20 hz. That's bass. Next is the imaging problem. Complete acoustic paneling surrounding the room is needed to enlarge it, because your speakers will be so close you have to back them almost next to a wall. So you'll need about 4" of insulation behind them, then sit close to the far end, a lot of insulation will save that room , and save you money from buying equipment to make up for it time and time again.
I have had a small room much like the one the OP has outlined and have had good success with ProAc Tablette 10’s. They are easier to drive than one would think with their 10-ohm impedance, and you can place them close to the wall because they are not ported. I had mine in a small office set up on heavy stands with a Primaluna tube integrated amp. I also added an REL T/5i sub which did a nice job with the bottom end. That setup sounded way better than it had any right to and the imaging was fantastic.
1 - For a tiny room like this I wouldn’t go with any speaker that wasn’t a sealed/acoustic suspension design (I’ve had 4 pairs of those in my home office). They interact less with the room than pretty much any ported designs, though the ones that port downwards into a vented base behave better in small rooms than do conventionally front- or back-ported designs.
2 - BUT...sealed/acoustic suspension speakers are low in efficiency and need real power to "wake them up." I mean solid state power, not tube power.
There’s your conundrum. If it were me I’d get an ATC SCM11 (pretty wood) or an ATC SCM12 Pro (not pretty but affordable for that great ATC focused sound @~$1,900/pr new, and a bit larger than the SCM11 (the "11" and "12" in these name refer to speaker volume in liters). Then try your reconditioned tube amp, and maybe you’ll luck out. If not, you need a solid AB or D amp w/real power, no less than ~150 wpc.
@munneuro I don't recall seeing if you only wanted "new" speakers, but what about the old Epos ES11 or ES12 line of used speakers? On stands and close-ish to a wall these sounded really amazing. Might not be as resolving as newer speakers, and may likely need a sub for lower end help, but always loved my Epos.
Wharfedale dentons for vintage vibe...the bigger model.Id suggest the atc 7 for better room control but they kind of do need grunt.Im in a 10 by 13 room and have toed in for less 1st reflection.
The original AE1 as a great speaker - not the best balanced tonally, but exceptional bass for the size of the box. However, they are a pig to drive - similar to a 3/5a. However, unlike the 3/5a the can handle the power required to drive them correctly.
I have a 10 x 10' room by 11' almost square and I use the Harbeth 30.1's and a Peachtree 300 (because it's all I can afford): No sub, I've considered one but I really don't like them the ones I've had anyway. Sound is good, Loud when I want it, good detail and close range experience.
This speaker is not very efficient, but according to Richard Vandersteen that's because it has far less breakups than most speakers, so should sound detailed and smooth. Its a nice size and goes down low enough that you can get a seamless transition to a subwoofer.
1 Altec A5 in mono would sound better in that space when any wee chinless bookshelf or underachieving tower. Seriously get a mono converter and jump off the upgrade train enjoy life.
Stax F-81 could be interesting participant for your experiment. It’s always a challenge when we go vintage way. It’s almost impossible to get, but such thing like vintage small electrostats worth a try.
just enough to keep the speakers from sounding small.
I hesitate to use the word cheap, but I figured, at this price, get the room up and running, perhaps upgrade the bookshelf or woofer (or both) later. I doubt I ever will, wharfedales sound terrific, the sub blends well with the wharfedales and it’s out of sight so the fake wood doesn’t bother me as it otherwise would.
Or you could keep the vintage vibe and stay old-school with a pair of Dynaco A25s. They are from the same era as the Scotts and are legendary. I run a set every now and then, and always hate to un-hook them. Should fit the room very well. They are beautiful and plentiful; and can be refurbed if needed. You will save a TON of money, worth a shot in my opinion. I bought a perfect pair for $250.
Thanks everyone, this is far beyond what I could have hoped for, I really appreciate all of the advice!
I will create a short list based on everyone suggestions and circle back with some photos once I have my reconditioned Scott back from the shop and a new pair speakers.
Are you a tool using man? The Morel Ardon kit from Parts Express is around $400.00 for the pair and are finished however you choose. Get walnut veneer for the retro look. They will have more dynamics than LS3/5as. Morel tweeters are smooth but detailed.
agreed small ATC would be a good fit for that small space.
another option is look flr some higher end pro models made specifically for close near field listening. Not sure you could find something that fits the vintage requirement though?
A 5 litre box LS 3/5A-type speaker is the obvious choice. To widen the field, I suggest a listen to the Sonus Faber Lumina II.
That said, if one is talking about literally reproducing the sound of a Strat through a Blackface Princeton, then your existing LS50s will do than better than the BBC type designs. A pair of Yamaha NS10s will do it too but they will be horrible for home based listening.
Small ls3/5a would be great in near monitoring mode small room..... I had 16 ohm falcon ls3/5a with a leben cs300xs and it was pretty magical but got lost in bigger room I went to 30.1 then and now on tannoy arden
For a room of this size, my biggest concern is going to be the distance between the speakers and the wall behind them. Any rear-ported speaker is going to be problematic. Of all the speakers mentioned above, Harbeth P3esr will be my top recommendation. It is a sealed design and can be placed as close as 6 inches from the wall. In fact, when I had them in my home office I found that the bass response actually improved as I got closer to the wall. It really shines in near field listening, which let's face is what you're really talking about here. Although I sold mine last year, it is one speaker I won't mind buying again. It might not impress at first, but it definitely grows on you over time.
Having said that, if you can keep the speakers at least 18 inches out from the wall, the Fritz Carrera BE's are phenomenal speakers for the price. These are without a doubt my favorite bookshelf speakers under $5k. I'm auditioning a Rogers 65-v2 SET amp, and the combo is outstanding. This speaker really shines with tube amplification and can thrive with even low powered amps.
I also owned KEF LS50 (non meta version) and in my opinion they're not a great match for tubes. They really need some SS kick in the gut to wake them up. Same for Harbeth 30.1 -- awesome speakers if you pair them with beefy solid state amps, but quite ordinary when driven by tube amplification.
The smaller Proacs are also nice but I feel they might be too 'in your face' in a smaller room. I always found them to be a bit too 'lively' for my taste, but you never know. A lot of people love Proacs, so maybe it's a preference thing.
I have a similar sized room and am very happy with the GoldenEar BRX (Bookshelf Reference X) loudspeakers I am using. The reviews on them are pretty consistently positive. I am very happy with them. You should check them out.
Wow. My office is 6' 4" by 9'3" so I get your situation completely. For a vintage look, the LS3/5A is your winner. It is designed as a nearfield monitor, where none of the other speakers mentioned had that as a consideration. The Infinity's are too 'modern', the Wharfedale's are too big, and the Heresy's are WAYYY TOO BIG. If you're really a Klipsch fan, consider the RP-400 or RP-500. Also, Acoustical treatment in a small room is crucial. Get about 6 or 8 24" square or 12" X 24" rectangular 2" panels for you walls and ceiling, They will make remarkable difference by controlling the early reflections. Acoustimac made mine, and I am thrilled. I use them in my lots-of-glass living room, where they help more than the sound system, I use them in my theatre, along with bass traps. And I will use them in my office shortly. Good service, good price, good selection.
I'll stay out of the amp discussion for now other than to say you won't need much, but it must be cleqn. The LS3/5A's are sealed, so having a subsonic filter isn't a big deal, but the Klipsch are, so being in close proximity to you turntable, a 20Hz high-pass subsonic filter will be a must. Woofer flap is not good for the speaker or the SQ. And as much fun as a tube amp would be, that's a small room and it could get very stuffy very fast from tube heat.
In addition to the LS3/5a types consider the Totem Acoustic Sky bookshelf/stand mounts. Lower bass response than the Harbert/Spendor/Falcon units, can be placed within a foot of a rear wall, excellent imaging and detail and nice mahogany finish. For half the price (a bit over $1,000) the Totem Skylight is another alternative. If your Scott drove you Kefs it will drive the Totems.
I have heard great things about the Infinity Infinitesimal and BBC L3S/5A, but unfortunately being true vintage they are tough to find for audition.
How do you audition equipment for a room of your size at a dealer's place? Wouldn't the sound be completely different? Do you have a different way to audition?
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