Tinnitus sufferer: is it the speakers or the 24bits/192kHz
I have tinitus and have had it for 30+ years. There is no cure and I know the best way to handle it is to ignore it. But lately my tinnitus has been going off the scale. The "lately" seems to have coincided with streaming Qobuz Hi-Res and listening on a PS Audio DirectStream DAC and pulling my Magnepan 1.6 out of storage. Now I have been known to play too loud on "A" song- but by and large the volume is down to where I could easily speak to somone in the room.
I have thought about maybe changing to to Harbeth, Dyn, Sonus Faber or other speakers more focused on midrange. But have also wondered if it is the high quality of sound that I am listening to that is perhaps stimulating my very high pitch ringing?
So, any fellow tinnitus folks out there with an opinion on this?
The average adult should sleep 7-8 hrs, less than that and you may have sleep-apnea... many people do and don't know it... it runs in my family...
As far as dizziness, I have recently read that there are crystals in ones ears that get out of wack from time to time, look this up, there is an easy remedy to correct this, though if this condition did occur it is more likely it will occur again... I have wondered if the crystals are hyper sensitive to frequency which would play a part...
I grew shooting way before hear protection was a thing... Loud rock concerts, bars have played a toll on my ears, I am always striving for clarity as the ringing disrupts understanding words... annoying, always asking someone to repeat themselves...
Reading different threads on this, Qubuz seems to be mentioned a lot. I wonder if there is something to that? I never had tinnitus until a couple of weeks ago and now it's driving me nuts. I feel like I can't even listen to my system. I have Qubuz but I am also a horrible sleeper.
I’m totally agree with Mike_f : take a tube-amp. :the sound is not so aggressive, more detail and 3D , and pure. As speakers: omniradial , electrostatic,. Not 2-way with horns: you hear high and low too direct:what about “mid”? And don’t go for “boom-boom” speakers: you “hurt” yourself.
"While it's not a bad idea to see an audiologist, there's a good chance they'll simply confirm your condition and say learn to live with it."
This is unfortunately is the reality. After confirming and getting your hearing tested, finding anything that seems to manage it will be like getting audio advice.
Depending on where the rest of your physical health is, manageable compared to what other ailments can do.
Mocktender, yeah sorry, I guess I didn't really answer your question. I just find it interesting and important for the community to share tinnitus info of any kind. Who knows, something might just help someone find a bit of relief one of these days. I haven't tried any 'miracle cures' yet but maybe a little extra CBD can't hurt.
Very interesting to hear about the possible correlation between sleep and tinnitus. I haven't been sleeping all that well for a year and a half or so and I have wondered about it. I'll have to look into it further.
Geez, good on you for all of the exercise. Keep it up as long as you can man!
Wow!I’m impressed.I thought a little question like that would garner a few responses, hopefully from only a few unfortunate souls like myself.
Just got back from a trip- no cell coverage and no stereo.So I was surprised to see my inbox with so many notices of responses.
First off- I will definitely go with Tekton speakers over “like” brain surgery.
Next, I thought a few of you actually answered my question as asked.And I appreciate that.
My health (except for the, as yet incurable leukemia that I have (postdates my tinnitus) is pretty damn good.I hike the canyons and mountains of western Colorado 4 days a week (about 5-7 miles each time) and usually sneak in 2-3 bike rides as well.
My last trip to the ENT and audiologist was today (last was three years ago).Report: A small amount of hearing loss in both ears.But for a 63.5 year old guy, I am above the curve for hearing in my age group.Ear drums look great and canal is clean.
So what is new on the tinnitus front- NOTHING!The ENT was very intrigued by the question I posted here.He said that almost every study done that he has seen is done on volume,not frequency.He said that in the last few years they are starting to rule out foods, alcohol and such.I am not so sure about that (dark chocolate and red wine makes my tinnitus seem worse to me).He said that some of the trial and error things I have been trying and ruling out were worth merit.I said, unfortunately, like most tinnitus sufferers that I know, I will chase any monkey in hope of a miracle.So what the hell, I might just try Charlottes Web CBD.
And as far as “The plural of anecdote in not data”.Yeah, but “Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence”.I have followed tinnitus research scientist for years- which is why I am now taking 5-HTP.Long shot I know, but the correlation between lack of deep sleep and tinnitus (The serotonin theory of tinnitus that uses dopamine and serotonin on the same type of transmitters).
So my question was simple and answered simply by some.It gave me no conclusive answer.But, my experience is similar and different from others, but at least in the same ballpark.
Question, why can I listen to the tv through the same DAC, pre-amp, amplifier and speakers via a Toslink cable with absolutely no change to my tinnitus?But within 30 minutes of listening via Ethernet or Coax on Qobuz at the same dba, same DAC, pre-amp, amplifier and speakers and listening position and both my ears are screaming (about 80% more on the right).Only source and cabling changed.
So it seems there is more than one way to skin the tinnitus cat, that has little if not no research.So why not ask for anecdotal evidence?
@
pkatsuleas....Good for you! My aids 'dial down' my symptoms a lot, as the better ones can be 'tuned' to do so. The various drugs I take for my cardio condition (synth aortic valve primarily) don't appear to make it worse, but it does vary. Likely driven by what I eat and/or drink.... At least, I experience a 'white noise' hiss in the mid-freq., due to loss in that range. Having it 'boosted' makes it less of a bother....
Dome tweets bother me as well....too 'etched', bordering on 'shrill' in some selections. Horns are too 'forward', in one's face to be day-to-day drivers. I guess that's why I like amt's....easier on the ears and the wetware betwixt. *G* Walsh drivers are a pleasant combination, as omnis' don't feet like I'm 'drilled' in the preferred listen locale...
+1 erichsch, jerks just can't help themselves. Thats why they are jerks.
Mocktender, you still here? I find stress levels/elevated blood pressure to cause an increase in symptoms. Even though you've had the condition for years definitely get yourself in for a physical. Not to pry but how's life been treating you? I first started noticing problems roughly 6 months after my wife was diagnosed with cancer. Surgery, chemo, the usual. Easily the most stressed out I have ever been in my life. Was taking way too much Ibuprofen (supposedly a trigger) at the time also so who really knows. Stopped with the Ibu but tinnitus still around. Some days better than others.
Someone mentioned alcohol as a trigger and I second that. The day after I have an extra bourbon or 3 it seems to be worse. But, I can tell that my blood pressure is just a little off then too.
I really don't find loud music to bother me. Although I usually don't listen as loud as I used to. Just being cautious ya know. I would like to be able to enjoy music for as long as possible! But, the metal domes in my old Snell type D are starting to bother me a bit. My LRS not a problem, smooth as silk. Especially with the Hegel H360.
Going to see a specialist, but not until June. Supposed to be the best in the business. He's a busy guy. We'll see what he says.
@psychranger You are being a jerk. Most people with tinnitus have done much research on the condition. Most have seen a physician or audiologist, joined and contributed to the ATA, been in tinnitus support groups or online forums. Many of these people know more about tinnitus than the average GP.
Amazing how many audiophiles are experts on tinnitus. Only thing missing from most of these recommendations is a chiropractor or cbd oil (Whoops, that one’s in there !)
While it's not a bad idea to see an audiologist, there's a good chance they'll simply confirm your condition and say learn to live with it. I've been to two and it only served to pinpoint the frequency of the hearing damage. And it was kind of cool to sit in an anechoic chamber. Outside of that, seeing an audiologist did absolutely nothing for me.
Go see an audiologist. Quit denying the obvious, and save what you've left. There's some really nice aids out there; I have a pair that restored what I thought I could hear and didn't.
Adjusting your diet for your personal physiology isn't a bad suggestion. I have low blood pressure naturally, so salt isn't an issue for me. You might check that out, it's simple to do that...
CBD may help, again simple to try. Dietary issues can stare us in the face, but old bad habits are hard to break.
Changing ones' equipment doesn't necessarily make sense. Even 'better' and/or 'different' won't change the recipient....;)
I own the Harbeth 7s and I believe their clarity actually relieved my tinnitus. I suggest that you listen to music at extreme low levels and choose music that has a large dynamic range. It took a while but it seems to have helped me a lot.
The problem is that you aren't getting an influx of frequencies that your hearing is actually missing. For me it is squarely in the 2khz range. Pretty much a 2khz hole in my hearing. I think it will be more to what fills that hole in your hearing that your brain won't try to fill in the missing frequencies. For me, it's my setup which is totally analog. Your hearing deficiencies probably will differ with mine. As far as speakers goes, see the response chart and see where the cutoff frequencies are. If they cut off near your hearing "hole" avoid them like the plague. Just a little advice from a fellow sufferer.
Tinnitus is aggravated by volume levels and unclean sound sources and speakers. You need to play at a low to moderate volume with a very clean system and with clean sounding components for more short duration to avoid aggravating your condition further. I would suggest try a speaker with a more focused sound launch that is not too big as to pressurize the room too much it may allow to keep from offending your delicate ears.
Interesting how they formulated the disclaimer at the end in your link "These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease"
Seems like a solid and serious company this fighttinnitusnow 🙄
My left ear is ringing right now, as I type this. I have had tinnitus in my left ear for several years now, and the best treatment is to accept that it's there. Otherwise, it can be crazymaking.
Like the doctor posted earlier in this string-- go to an audiologist-- please. You didn't specify if you have tinnitus in both ears, or just one. But, a hearing test will reveal a lot, and will give your ENT doc info about your condition-- as he did with mine. Much like everything else in the "practice of medicine" a lot of this testing is done to rule things out. In my case, my hearing test caused the need for a CT brain scan, but it came back with no issues in my brain or ear canal. That's important because nodes can grow on your inner ear nerves, and the can be benign or malignant-- and they generally have to take a part of your skull out to get to the nerve. So, it's a lot like brain surgery-- as in serious.
Meanwhile, I listen to CJ tube amps and a CJ tube preamp and an Oppo 105D with Modwright (several tubes) through Egglestonworks speakers. This combination nearly always makes me either forget that I have tinnitus, or actually makes the ringing go away-- which makes me listen to music for several hours at a time on a regular basis.
I've tried many different combinations and what worked for me was alnico full range speakers (Omega) and Mcintosh gear. Not the pinnacle of detail or transparency but it's smooth as butter and the most enjoyable I've ever owned. I used to have to turn the volume down a few clicks during parts of songs, especially horns. Not anymore, and I'm 100% streaming. A well regarded R2R dac, tubes....nothing fixed it before. My guess is the speakers have the biggest impact..?? Good luck getting it sorted out OP, I'm sure there's a right combination for you.
Hey Soren do you remember the dose and or purity of the Ginko? Ive tried it but it always gave me a headache Tablejockey Yes cbd will help the intensity. I have tried a number of them and the brand mentioned above was the only one that I could feel the effects of good luck Willy-T Willy-T
My tinnitus started 2-3 weeks after I started steaming. My source was a CD player used as a transport. Now an Innuos Zenith and Qobuz only. No Dac change.
Listening time went thru the roof. Volume is rarely above 65db avg per my db apps. Tinnitus now for about 5-6 weeks. It has improved lately or perhaps I'm getting better at living with it. I think it's the former.
No proof of a causal relationship between the onset of my tinnitus and streaming or my long listening hours, but the inception of each lining up as they do would make anyone wonder.
Retired physician here, you might try your local audiologist rather than a bunch of strangers. Science is usually a better approach. The plural of anecdote in not data. HVAC
- Good quality of sound/equipment makes you play loud which results in increase of the hizzing. - You can play loud inbetween, live with the hizzing afterwards but let your ears rest one, two or three days before playing loud again depending on how frequent you want to play loud. Then no lasting damage is created.
By the way way my tinitus was reduced to some 25% by a cure of strong gingko biloba over some months. Prescribed by a specialist in Germany whom I visited.
Hello I too suffer from this condition and have found one thing that actually gives some relief and lowers the ringing Charlottes Webb cbd cbd is suppose to relax or dull your central nervous system and I believe this actually is how it reduces the intensity of the ringing Try 25 mg dose and adjust up or down from there. I take 60 mg every morning and it last all day Hope this helps someone Willy-T
I’ve found that my tinnitus gets worse when I play loud music in my car, more so than the same level with a better set at home. So harmonics and distortion probably make a difference. I’ve tried wearing Calmer earplugs. These seem to help. The producer (Flare) has more customers with the same experience, but can’t explain the effect. In general, tinnitus is a neurological problem, so not something that can be fixed “mechanically” or on the “outside”. Improving your situation is therefore largely trial and error, see what works for you. For me, Harbeth works quite nicely. And vinyl.
I have tinitus on almost any kind of speakers except electrostatic speakers. Tube amplifiers and tube DACs seems to eliminate this problem in my situation. For exemple I can listen Quad 2912 with Atma Sphere amplifier and Ear Yoshino DAC on high speaker levels (90-100 db and more) for hours without tinitus. But when I listen small fostex speakers in my home cinema setup for 30 min on moderate level, the tinitus is back immediately. So this is definitevly something induced or exagerated by the sound distortion and/or room acoustics.
Very informative. Appreciate the several early posts from seasoned Audiogoners. I have that too. Drove me crazy at first, like 10 yrs ago, now I accept it but as I can still discern what works for me. Even if that is more limited that 20 yrs ago.
I have some tinnitus at a high frequency, and the only thing in audio that bothers me are horn tweeters. I have no problem with ribbon/AMT type tweeters or soft domes. So my tendency is to believe the problem is with your speakers...but maggies?, that doesn't compute. It seems like you need to continue to investigate.
I too have had tinitus off and on from the service, and younger days at loud concerts, and ,loud rock& roll at home , I have found the refinement of the speakers ,dac ,electronics as well as cables help you to keep the pesky ness of the tinitus in check ,a tweeter more smooth ,and a R2R type dac,or tubes somewhere in the circuit. Your audio cables too can Taylor certain frequencies ,myself I rebuild my speakers Xovers for that being the heart of your speakers ,most speakers use what I consider average at best capacitors ,resistors and you want copper gold connectors most use cheap brass which is on the brighter side in the upper frequencies. It has taken me well over a year to get the system synergy and mods I am satisfied with.
My tinnitus bugs me every time I listen to my system. I sold my Maggie’s and purchased some PMC twenty 23’s which have soft domes. I try to listen at low volumes to not cause issues. But no go I limit my listening sessions as well. Maybe buy a pair of Harbeth’s maybe Sonus Fabers? Might sell it all and call it a journey.
i too have significant tinnitus and multiple speakers. I’ve found that my Maggie’s give me the fewest issues and my high efficiency speakers can trigger more problems. I agree with getting some tubes in the equation
I have tinnitus and hyperacusis. These are different and many people don't know the difference. In the real world, things like loud restaurants murder my ears. I've found with sound systems, SPL is not the problem for me. Rather, rooms, headphones, or components with noise, distortion, or ringing trigger my symptoms within seconds. However I can listen in a well treated room to a 2.1 or HT setup at full volume for hours without issue.
I also have tinnitus for over 30 years. A few things. Do you use an SPL gauge when you listen to music? You can download a free one in an app store. When I first used one, I was surprised at how loud my normal listening level was.
I have a pair of Audeze planar headphones and I find I can only listen to them for so long and at relatively low levels.
Have you had Covid? A lot of people experience various forms of inflammation due to Covid. I personally had something called Covid Toes and it coincided with very heightened levels of tinnitus. It took weeks to come back down to normal.
I've had mild tinnitus since birth, but fortunate enough that it really hasn't bothered me in the fifty years I've had it. I have similar experience as keithr in that metal tweets really bothered me in my 20s - before I really knew what was going on.
Now that I've come to know the nature of this ringing between my ears, I agree with most everything posted. I've experienced that listening at moderate levels at the frequencies where my tinnitus is sensitive actually helps. I've also found I can sense the tinnitus more easily when I'm in an extremely quiet environment; otherwise, my brain just blocks it out. However, I think there's a problem if you "overstimulate" that frequency area (liken it to people without tinnitus experience ringing in their ears after an extremely loud transient sonic event).
I'm actually thinking of moving over to speakers that emphasize the treble region (currently on a pair of Dunlavy SC-III.As which I am loathe to move from - love the sound), since as my hearing ages - I'm losing treble sensitivity, and couple that with the ringing - I feel I'm missing more and more detail in the upper registers...
really depends on where your tinnitus is - mine is like 8khz. i've always been bothered by metal tweets even before it happened (an ear infection, not even rock concerts sigh). loud music does aggravate it afterwards, but i regularly listen to my YGs in the 90s on a friday night without worry. i'd say alcohol and caffeine are bigger contributors.
said another way, i wouldn't resort to sleepy speakers with tubes as a solution. i think an efficient speaker makes sense.
I stream Tidal and also play LPs. On some of the digital (and it is present for me with some of their “Masters” offerings as well as a small number of “CD” songs that sound very good otherwise)), I hear a different kind of ringing than what is the case with the usual hiss of my mild tinnitus....best way I can describe it is that, eons ago, one of my first jobs was as a stocker in a dept. store and I’d encounter much the same high frequency noise I’m hearing now on some of these Tidal songs whenever I was working in certain storage rooms. It was barely perceptible but enough so that I mentioned it to my boss and he told me it was the (ADT) security system. Anyway, I don’t run into this noise with LPs and it’s not an impediment to my enjoying the digital music but my ears have picked up this difference between these two sources. Using a tube integrated with JBL L65s, whose tweeter can tend toward “tinnitus unfriendly”...
Dont go the Dynaudio route. They arent good at low volume listening and they dont excel until the volume is turned up. I also have Tinnitus and was warned by several about the Dyn Characteristics.
I don’t agree that this is a tube vs ss, or digital vs vinyl issue. My experience has been more speaker related. I’ve had speakers that made my ears mildly hurt and ring at 85db volumes. I agree with noromance that it seems to be an energy issue.
My Quad ESL on the end of my high resolution vinyl system can ring the tin when too loud —80dB+ My Spendors with sub can go to 90dB with no hurting. I think it's the broad wall of sound thing. There's a lot of energy in those panels.
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