This is the preeminent question of our audiophile future. And while I completely agree that DIY done well brings the most reward, both in satisfaction and in sound quality per dollar, not everyone has the wherewithal to achieve that lofty goal. Perhaps the dwindling middle class will have no choice but to do it themselves in the coming years as more manufacturers switch to the high end where almost unlimited wealth allows exorbitant pricing.
The return of the DIYer
I’ve been thinking about several trends and forces that are affecting our hobby and how this will change things.
The global pandemic and supply issues, unemployment and how disposable income has dwindled in the middle class over the last 30-40 years. The brick and mortar showroom is vanishing, and audio shows have become scarce. About the only aspect of the audio industry which has not dwindled or hurt as much are bloggers/review sites and DIY suppliers.
Our hobby grew up out of tinkerers and experimenters, and then seemed to have been subsumed by the all powerful consumer. The arm chair speaker or amplifier designer who could talk tech without every doing a bit of math or soldering became what we call a "true audiophile" so long as they regularly bought and sold gear.
Now though, perhaps the tables are turning. The lack of funds in many an audiophile’s pocket, lack of ability to go listen for yourself, I’d like to believe the age of the mega speaker holding the cover of audio magazines is over. I honestly wouldn’t mind seeing most mega-speakers vanish, being rarely more than excess without commensurate capabilities. Tweaked sounds, and fashionable trends in frequency alterations dominated the press and showrooms.
Is that all over? And if it is over, are we ready to return to our roots as makers instead of buyers, or are we in a temporary malaise? Nothing more than a flu from which we will bounce back? Or is the DIY er himself to vanish as well with the hobby?
The global pandemic and supply issues, unemployment and how disposable income has dwindled in the middle class over the last 30-40 years. The brick and mortar showroom is vanishing, and audio shows have become scarce. About the only aspect of the audio industry which has not dwindled or hurt as much are bloggers/review sites and DIY suppliers.
Our hobby grew up out of tinkerers and experimenters, and then seemed to have been subsumed by the all powerful consumer. The arm chair speaker or amplifier designer who could talk tech without every doing a bit of math or soldering became what we call a "true audiophile" so long as they regularly bought and sold gear.
Now though, perhaps the tables are turning. The lack of funds in many an audiophile’s pocket, lack of ability to go listen for yourself, I’d like to believe the age of the mega speaker holding the cover of audio magazines is over. I honestly wouldn’t mind seeing most mega-speakers vanish, being rarely more than excess without commensurate capabilities. Tweaked sounds, and fashionable trends in frequency alterations dominated the press and showrooms.
Is that all over? And if it is over, are we ready to return to our roots as makers instead of buyers, or are we in a temporary malaise? Nothing more than a flu from which we will bounce back? Or is the DIY er himself to vanish as well with the hobby?
48 responses Add your response
We live in a world of specialization. I don't want to be designing audio systems. I want to listen to music. You do you and I'll do me. And I believe the more things change, the more they stay the same. There's a lot of working vintage gear out there. DIYers will always exist. Just like the shade tree mechanic and the backyard bbqer. And those the the neighbors I really appreciate! |
+1 @ mrklas We indeed do live in a world of specialization. And this specialization has brought about a society which has knowledge of one small piece of the pie. Yet fewer than ever understand what the whole pie is supposed to taste like I’m with you. i have no desire to build my components. I love the music. I don’t buy & sell equipment on a regular basis. I just want music From @ erik_squires seemed to have been subsumed by the all powerful consumer. The arm chair speaker or amplifier designer who could talk tech without every doing a bit of math or soldering became what we call a "true audiophile" so long as they regularly bought and sold gear. IOW the unqualified entrepreneur entered the mfg sector. But it doesn’t stop with audio. It is every product. We used to have entrepreneurs who were proud of their products because it represented them and WHO they are. this is not true of corporations. No one cares as long as it sells and keeps the investors happy. So, our whole economy is based around the investor who has NO interest in the product but wants to make his profit product be damned. Will it turn around? I certainly hope so. But I’ve been waiting for it for 30-40 yrs. |
I started my hobby around 1998. I changed components very frequently like many audiophiles. And around 2002 I finished with a system: Nottingham Spacedeck turntable, Cary 303 CD player, Plinius 8200 integrated amp and Spendor 2/3 speakers. I was young bachelor and I had a good job in High Tech company, but even than this setup was crazy expansive for me. But I wanted a better sound without spending more… As result I moved to vintage (McIntosh MC30amplifier , Lenco L78, EMT 948 turntables, Altec 604E speakers) and later to DIY (300B SET, phonostage). Now my system doesn’t cost more versus my 2002 system, but in term of sound and musical enjoyment it is a number of steps ahead. |
In my understanding of audiophile experience, DIY is necessary because not only ready made "tweaks" may be costly but they are not always designed for all needs and anyway in acoustic some devices dont exist on the market ( my mechanical Helmholtz equalizer for example) or are very costly... My audio truth and experience is, when the gear is well chosen, you must deal with the working domensional embeddings of your system: mechanical,electrical and acoustical, then DIY here play the greatest role for me and make sometimes future upgrading pointless or useless or not so attractive anymore... |
Even though it can be cheaper to buy a ready made PC off the shelf some folk still prefer to build their own. When it comes to audio it is always cheaper to build (or at least assemble) equipment yourself. I can't imagine many established companies willing to provide the parts themselves, or else we might all be assembling a Rega P10 ourselves! Neither can I imagine many dealers and reviewers being too happy either. Nevertheless, the option should be there for those like myself that might want it. For a while money became more valuable than time, but thanks to crazy Joe and all of his installed ilk, that might be about to change. |
If you’re happy with the stuff you hear in the stores and can afford to buy it, there’s likely no reason to explore other options. The prospect of 40% to 50% of my audio budget going into someone else’s pockets never sat well with me, and fostered the pursuit of alternative methods to acquiring what I wanted. Learning to tweak and modify existing equipment led to DIY and building stuff from scratch....for me it’s the ultimate puzzle, and ultimate learning experience. With the availability of information on the web more prevalent than ever, there's little reason not to jump in with both feet if you have even half an inkling to get your DIY feet wet. |
Hi @mrklas , I have a much more interesting journey that most audiophiles buying a new stuff. I always tweaking my amplifier, phonostage, crossover. I change schematics and parts. I customize everything for MY TASTE. And yes I have some background that helps me too, BSc in Electronics. My DIY experience gave me much deeper understanding in audio compared to people that know nothing about electronics but brainwashed by sneaky audio dealers and reviewers. Yes, I went to audio show and audio salons before the pandemic. A just a few of rooms I heard sounded good. And the most interesting no correlation between the prices of the systems and sound quality. Actually most super expensive rooms on shows sound horrible! |
And the most interesting no correlation between the prices of the systems and sound quality. Actually most super expensive rooms on shows sound horrible!Electronic audio engineering has matured long ago...(50 years at least ? ) Very good gear with audiophile S.Q. potential exist for many decades at low cost... But on the other hand ACOUSTIC of small room is underestimated by most and in my experience only passive material treatment is used and often not in the right way... Acitive mechanical controls of small dedicated room cannot be an easy market because most system are in a living room not in a dedicated room ...Sellers of acoustic products dont have the time to fine tune a mechanical adapted grid of mechanical Helmholtz device controls...It is more financially interesting to sell ready made bass traps, diffusers surface, or reflecting surfaces... Then the fact that highly costing system sound bad or horrible is often because the room where they are is uncontrolled, if minimally treated, and absolutely not prepared acoustically for the specific demands of the specific speaker... It takes me many months to fine tune my room... an expert acoustican will make it in hours...But hours amount to many thousand of dollars + devices cost+ +material cost.... Then it is not surprizing that some sellers ask for 50,000 bucks to transform acoustically a room for dedicated audio room listening.... Acoustic is the sleeping princess and all the pieces of gear are the 7 working dwarves... We listen WITH our system but THROUGH the controlled room/speakers... Most people think the opposite: They think they listen WITH their uncontrolled room/speakers ,THROUGH their system.... 😁😊 In a word, the sound experience is in the ears/room not in the cables, dac, or amplifier.... They put the cart in front of the ox.... The ultimates reason is simple: money... It is more financially interesting to sell new gear for the living room and more easy to plug it on the wall and listening to it , than investigate acoustic and psycho-acoustic science control in a dedicated room... |
1: There’s diy’ers with good electronic engineering knowledge 2: Then there’s diy’er’s that listen to to them and what they have to offer and do it. 3: Then there’s diy’ers that are shillers for the "snake oil companies" that never seem to post themselves. 4: Then there’s the gullible diy’ers that have no idea, and follow the snake oil shillers, because what the snake oil companies offer, is usually very easy for the gullible to do. (but expensive for the component) Cheers George |
I've been modifying some of my equipment from my entry into high end audio in late 80's. early 90's. From the first time I opened up a component I was curious about what all those parts did and how they made up a complete circuit. Started with simple projects like removing captured power cords for IEC outlets, grew into more complex mods as knowledge increased. Allied with inherent curiosity, I came to realize my systems were totally unique in the world and required a self chosen path to attain sound qualities I desired, in some cases, this meant mods to existing equipment. Reviews of equipment are of only limited use for me, all my associated variables versus the reviewers make this so. I'd rather mod my existing equipment vs. equipment churning. And so, along with the pleasure of attaining specific sound quality goals, there is also the satisfaction in the very process of analyzing and effecting component modifications resulting in the fulfillment of these goals. Choosing the parts, getting them to fit, soldering, as well as keeping sound journals that document each and every modification, and inform future mods can all be entirely satisfying in itself. I always remain mindful that all my efforts are in service to the music. While there is great satisfaction in reaching SQ goals, getting closer to the music and performance is the real payoff. I doubt the DIY crowd will ever be more than a small minority of any group. Time required for such a pursuit is likely too great an obstacle for many, and off the shelf products provide enough satisfaction. |
I can’t believe people don’t know that line from Belushi’s great inspirational speech in Animal House. The pundits have been predicting the death of "high end" for decades but somehow, the top tier (often flavor of the month) keeps getting more expensive. Classic old pieces command some serious coin too. So, I agree it makes sense to go back to the roots. I’ve been doing some reading- need to do some listening-- to the immediate post WE era-- I guess early Altec, Jensen, etc. Some of those old horn systems seem appealing- I want to hear a few (I’m trying to find the right balance between wattage needs given the modest output of my Lamm ML2s and the cost of assembling a horn system that does not run into crazy money). I’ve never been a great soldering hand- yeah, I built a few Dynakits when I was young but I’ve relied pretty much entirely on commercially available gear. My main system is probably the best sounding it has ever been-- based on components I put together starting in 2006-7. I’ve spent enough time around this hobby to not be awed by the dollars spent, but I do enjoy the beauty of well made gear from whatever era. Whether it sounds good to your ears is another matter. I think even before Harry Pearson died, and the Stereophile morphed again (was it resold- I haven’t really followed its more recent publication history), the notion of touting aspirational gear was losing its appeal. Ditto, the notion that there was only one way to achieve sonic nirvana. (How many of us still have all those Harry’s List records in our collection?) Many people liked Art Dudley, apart from seeming like a pleasant guy and a good writer, he did like older gear and found bargains (relative) in historic pieces. I think each of us follow a different path. If you have the skills to build from parts (I’ve hired cabinet makers to build, ahem, cabinets), why not? |
In these times of dramatic price hikes , and supply issues modding Loudspeaker Xovers , and upgrading gear and tweaks, upgrades are sound investments and very cost effective if done properly , myself have been doing this for many years now and it’s very rewarding to see that premium parts in the right areas can bring substantial gains in fidelity. |
DIY is mostly a thing of the past for two main reasons. On the one hand, modern products are far more complex than previously and on the other, most purchasers are not interested in the effort needed to get started. I might have constructed my first solid state amplifier, but these days it's mostly just crossovers and adding shielding to equipment that manufacturers mistakenly don't consider necessary. |
+1 @pedroeb I think there will be DIY audiophiles in the future but only a minority. I am not one, mostly because lack of space and tools (and lack of time). As for corporate vs boutique I think both will continue to co-exist. My dac is from a very small company and I have been very happy with it. My next dac may still be from a corporation since those are easier to find and listen to. Maybe it will be from Schiit which I see as a middle ground. It is a company but they started small and seems to care about their products and sq. The book by Mike Moffat is worth a read by anyone interested in audio companies. |
I do NOT regard buying DIY kits off the shelf from a company selling those kits and building it according to the pre-designed and fabricated components such as crossover a DIY project. Those projects are just replication of the existing design that the company has fabricated or copied from the manufacturer (hopefully does not trigger infringement of intellectual property). The DIYers do not really design anything. That is not a hobby but "killing time" only. I am not sure what kind of fullfilment or satisfaction they got out of it. The DIY company even tells you that, if you change the front panel of the speaker
(for example), you need to change the design of crossover and they cannot help. BTW, I do consider cloning a specific speaker shape/design/pattern a infringement of interllectual property, big time. Imagine how cloning Wilson Audio speakers of worth more than 20k, 30k and above possibly damages company's business. |
In 2001-2003, my friend and I traveled several times a week throughout Israel to the apartments of the audiophiles. At that time, I was looking for an amplifier instead of my Plinius 8200, the sound of which did not suit me then. Then I had Spendor 2/3 speakers. 1. I then came across an amplifier from the 50s MacIntosh MC30. I was shocked how much better, more natural, more musical it was than my not cheap Plinius 8200. 2. Once, we ended up in a house where there was a homemade system with Lowther speakers with large front horns Oris 150 and 2a3 amplifiers. The sound that we heard shocked us. Everything that we have heard before could not be compared. We were like medieval knights who suddenly saw a modern army with tanks and aircraft. 3. After some time, I bought a Lenco L78 turntable for a penny. I put it on a heavy birch plywood plinth and fitted a vintage SME 3009 tonearm. I was surprised how much more accurate this turntable sounded in reproducing the rhythm of the music, how much better and more elaborate the bass and more natural tone of the piano compared to the much more expensive Nottingham Spacedeck which I had it then. Since then, I realized that it was a fiction that the audio industry progress and what a solution for me is vintage audio and DIY audio. |
Wow, @Lanx0003 I never thought I'd read such an anti-DIY diatribe on here like that one. I could ignore it, but there's things here to unpack, going from easiest to hardest: Intellectual Theft Those projects are just replication of the existing design that the company has fabricated or copied from the manufacturer... Almost all of the kits I've seen from Madisound, Troels Gravesen, Parts Express, Meniscus are unique. In some form factors it's really hard not to end up with the same tweeter and woofer as someone else because they are natural partners from the same vendor. That doesn't mean the electro-acoustical design was copied. This is especially true in 2 way systems. Yeah, all those fake Wilson speakers out there really cut into their business .... << giggles hysterically >> because "I was about to spend $30k on a speaker, but hey, I cloned it instead, and whew, the rest I'm spending on women and booze"... is not a real thing. The DIYers do not really design anything. That is not a hobby but "killing time" only. C'mon guy, you are seriously going to try to redefine "hobby?" Merriam Webster says you are taking liberties with the language, the definition is very simple and very broad: a pursuit outside one's regular occupation engaged in especially for relaxation DIYers in any field have a variety of skill levels and are attracted by more than 1 type of work. I welcome them all. I used to make furniture. By the time I wanted to make my own speakers I lost my woodshop so I had the cabinets made by Lee Tyler. So am I not a DIYer now?? I am not sure what kind of fullfilment or satisfaction they got out of it. So, based on this, I should say that fishing is not a hobby, because I sure as hell can't tell what kind of satisfaction a fisher gets when there's a perfectly good supermarket 10 miles away. Mostly what I'm reading is someone frightened that people will build speakers instead of buy them at the store. Sorry that scares you. Lastly, the DIY speaker field, which is the only one you focused on, is wide open and better than ever. For about $300 you can have a complete measurement setup, and if you are willing and able to spend the time on the math and science anyone could become a speaker maker. I'm one of those, but I'm happy to welcome people getting a start buy buying off-the-shelf kits too. Truth is a lot of DIYers start with kits, or start modding commercial speakers and then learn the rest. Same can be said with DIY amp and preamps and even DACs. Good for them. |
DIY are starting to be heard, check out newly proposed 'National Right To Repair' bill. Proprietary rights are being taken to extremes by many corporations, they don't even want you to have the ability to open up their product. More vertical integration, trying to control profit generation for life of product. Yes, manufacturers do have property rights, they have the right to prove property theft to the courts. But we're talking about diy hobbyists here, assume we're not trying to market the equipment we've modified. I don't see audiogon or even the diy forums as platform for property theft for enriching oneself. I suspect some of these manufacturers would like to seal their equipment with tracking devices that directly report tampering to internal police force. Well, ok, give me lifetime full warranty coverage at no charge. Reverse engineering has been going on since the beginning of more complex innovation, property rights last for limited time. This is how knowledge is dispersed and further innovation promoted. |
I would venture to say DIY is alive and well in this hobby and may be gaining momentum. For me it's about self-reliance and extends beyond just updating and modifying electronics. I hope the Right to Repair takes hold, although I'm personally not that interested in schematics of boards with hundreds of surface mount components, I do hope there are those that are and can save them from the landfills. |
If you are a DIYer - great. My not being a DIYer doesn't diminish my enjoyment of the music. In the end, I want to hear music from my system - not work on my system. My time is important to me and I'd rather pay for an outcome (listening pleasure) than buy and experience (pride in creating something with my hands) when it comes to my audition equipment. |
RadioShack used to have all the tools and circuit components and not only RadioShack. You know, you hit it on the head. With the death of Radio Shack it's really hard for a hobbyist to get into anything without a mentor or group. I mean, sure, the Internet has a video for that, but why would you eve get interested? How do you get started? The big interest is in robotics and Python and Raspberry Pi. |
Actually, Erik...it was really easy, at least for me. *s* It helps to have a focus, and I certainly found mine. And I get to either critique' my efforts or just f'n enjoy them. And, pardon the pun: Sounds like a 'win/win' to me....*goody, nice cringe* @Lanx0003....1st comment on last of yours, i.e., Wilson & Co. Of no interest to me. As for the WAAD device, shouldn't that be 'built-in' vs. a new X$ item? Interesting cabinetry, I'd wager the bulk of what one pays for. SAF? You've Got to be Kidding....@ that price point, she'll likely just go shopping for her 'itch'. Cloning: Pick any 2 speakers of any similar 'build' level, and you see more 'clones of clones' than much else... Agreed (surprise!), kits are not 'design it yourself', no. They do give one a chance to develop skills and the requisite tools to move on from... 'Kit' speakers are a leap of faith; 'raw' drivers even more so...;) I know of one who is 'diy-ing' a 'clone' of a MBL 101...the 'Martian fire hydrant' so well loved... MBL has not shown up at his porch, nor legal leeches. More likely astounded that anyone would Try..... (Last contact he'd got the top 2/3s' down, moving into the balloon bass base....) Save $? Well, maybe....I've spent more on set-up and time vs. actual parts and raw materials, and the time is of a premium to me....more because I only have so much to spare anymore.... ...but it's important to me to spend some of it, on It. I have a 'bookshelf pair' I listen to daily, attached to this desktop. One 'gets involved' for the challenge...and the previous line. ;) ...which really is the point of it all, doing it for the pleasure derived in ones' pursuit, whatever the means and method to achieve that. If something significant happens, I'll let y'all know. *G* |
Don't get me wrong. I have tremendous respect to the DIYers who has abundant knowledge about how the electronics work, crossover design, tuning the SPL to achieve optimal sound performance, etc. and I wish to become one to ultimately fabricate my own ideal speakers. I just do not think buying the kits off the shelf and building it a true DIY project. Design It Yourself not just Do It Yourself. |
@ erik_squires - The name of this thread seems to imply that the DIYer had "passed on"? DIYers have, and always will be around, mainly because there are so many things you CAN do for yourself in this hobby - i.e. if desired. From tweaks, like using rebar stands for cable elevators, to building your own gear, the spectrum of DIY projects is vast DIYer’s choose their path because they are interested in the specific subject matter and are prepared to invest the time/effort in their quest But those that elect not to DIY do so because they may not have the time or desire to invest in a particular DIY pursuit I, like many, am somewhere in the middle, in that I "pick my battles"
Someone posted earlier that the demise of Radio Shack had a huge impact on the possibility of pursing a DIY approach.
Also, I see no "shame" in not DIYing, but there is also little validity in thinking a DIY solution cannot possibly be as good as branded products. Should a person that builds from Kits be considered DIYer ?
A sense of personal achievement derived from a DIY project is no different from the joy of hearing the improvements that the "shiny new whatever" you just purchased has made to your system Is there a resurgence in DIY?
|
DIY in my own case is not about electronical designing of amplifiers, cables, or speakers... DIY for me is in the heart of S.Q. experience my own DYI is : acoustic and psycho-acoustic experiments... No soldering here.... And acoustic after a well chosen or well newly soldered piece of gear it is half at least of the S.Q. I add that because my point is acoustic exist also for DIY with potential astronomical improvement....For me the more important one... |
OK, a few disjoint comments: 1. MC -- snicker/smile :-)2. Animal House3. Actually, assembly labor and logistics are a huge problem as i contemplate returning to the world of actually making physical stuff rather than throwing designs over the wall. So, maybe companies ought to sell you nto the parts but the kits, with a real markup. Hafler. Heathkit. Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose? G |
@alexberger, "Since then, I realized that it was a fiction that the audio industry progress and what a solution for me is vintage audio and DIY audio." You are not the only one as this video from YouTuber VWestlife suggests. Audiophile Audiofoolery: 90% wrong about turntables. https://youtu.be/Vqtuj2f19vA @terry9 "Thing about DIY is that you can afford technology that you otherwise couldn't." That's got to be just as valid today as it was in the 1950s heyday of DIY. Personally, I've no wish to design anything but if I can save some money I'd happily consider assembling predestined components into finished equipment myself. Actually, before the demise of World Designs (due to its driving force designer Peter Comeau taking over IAG - Quad, Mission, Wharfedale etc - in China) I was considering buying a pair of his highly regarded WD25T tower speakers in kit form. For the less confident amongst us WD were even willing to supply ready made MDF/fibreboard sandwich cabinets. As such the cost would still have been between 1/3 to 1/4 of what you might have been expected to pay for a finished product at retail. |
There is far more access to diy audio supplies than in the day of Radio Shack, partsconnexion and parts express, amongst many others. Boutique and generic parts are easily available via interweb.There are numerous forums with diy information and help in getting started. Kits pf all kinds available. Without a doubt, this is the golden age of diy! Based on my observations, specialization in the work place and lack of time are the major impediments to diy in all areas. As innovation evolves ever more specialized work skills are needed, this may require much education, more narrow focus to master needed skills, and finally more time devoted to work. Add family obligations and time becomes really scarce. Still, with the baby boom generation getting on in years, time should become far less scarce, diy audio is an interesting place to spend some of that free time. |
There is far more access to diy audio supplies than in the day of Radio Shack, partsconnexion and parts express, amongst many others For sure! But what Radio Shack offered you was a range of possibilities you could touch. You could be enticed by dozens of different electronic subjects in half an hour. We lack that in person store browsing experience. Of course, I can go online and order custom made speaker drivers made from Swiss cow bells now and pay in Bitcoin or Eth, but nothing comes close to the Shack. |
*S* Ah, the defense rises to the challenge, blades drawn, beating shields in sync...;) When the Last DIY'er Dies, so does Progress. Just because most is done large-scale commercial, does not render the individual incapable of the Moment of "Ah, ha..." BTW, synchronistically and meta-quantum-istically.... MBL 101 (Mk2) cloning friend emailed this am that all goes well. Between family, job, school (engineering, likely audio) and the general thresh 'n mesh of what's left, his progress bears 'significant fruit', a worthy comparison to globe radiators. We have a pact in place: When each feels we've reached a point where a need to critique' each others' laborious labours and follow up on my invite... As noted, I buy....and, in our case, I fly...metaphorically. *G* 'Overnight speed tour' distance, and mine will be easier to transport. ;) |
I got into this area pre-1970 and it didn’t take me that long to assemble a serious system. But hobbyist audio comes from equipment that was raw drivers, amp kits and a turntable, a few of which endure, along with early classics, like Saul Marantz/Sid Smith's work. Before that, equipment was based on live/pro sound, and before that, music for film, if I’m not mistaken. What we think of as consumer audio, whether budget or "high end," really went into commercial production in the ’50s, probably coinciding with the advent of the LP. I know lots of people probably had phonographs to play 78s but these were more in the nature of furniture than what we think of as hi-fi from what I can discern. As far as I know, there was no hi-fi as a commercial matter, pre-war other than professional gear, no? |