The problem with Magicos

@kenjit You might be on to something. I tell you what keeps me up at night is that one of these days someone will try to pair them up with schiit audio. At that point, the noise trapped inside the speakers would get so flatulent that they might explode causing grave injuries to the owners. This might also explain why some Magicos give out this pungent smell when playing Diana Krall.

So why do people by Magico's?

Because they have a unique sound. The cabinet is stronger than MDF so that contributes to the sound. But the noise I referred to remains. However that remains in most other speakers too so most audiophiles cant hear the effect of it. 

Maybe there is something magic about the noise? How would you know this to begin with?

Noise should not be there. If it is not on the recording it should not be there. Most high end speakers fill the cabinet about 50% with polyester or foam. It is easy to test how much sound is absorbed by this amount of foam. The amount of foam inside a typical bookshelf speaker is so small that you could talk right through it.  

So why do people by Magico's?  Maybe there is something magic about the noise?  How would you know this to begin with?

But for the most part, I find many of you can not and that reminds me of the famous howard stern quote from the movie, Private Parts...”#1 reason why people who hate him continue to listen to him ? Cause they want to hear what he’s going to say next !”

Great quote. Quite timely. 

Why does this thread qualify for being so offensive as to needing to be reported? That is a scary comment but I guess not so much these days.

Anyway If you don’t like the OP’s crazy theories, just move on and don’t participate. Using the current vernacular, Ghost him or
Cancel (culture)him but don’t take away his right to post what’s on his mind cause you don’t like it.

But for the most part, I find many of you can not and that reminds me of the famous howard stern quote from the movie, Private Parts...”#1 reason why people who hate him continue to listen to him ? Cause they want to hear what he’s going to say next !”

Jeez.

Just go up the original post, and report it. The Report button is in the lower right side of any post on audiogon. If we all do this, there's a good chance this thread will go away.

The real problem with Magico's is that they are designed, built, and priced to appeal to those that buy with their eyeballs and not their ears. I call this the "Bowers and Wilkins approach" and look where B&W is these days. Until a heretofore undiscovered technological breakthrough occurs, all loudspeaker manufacturers relying upon conventional pistonic drivers have to rely upon limited design parameters. Some resort to the tried and true marketing gimmick of futuristic externals. Magico is like the Rolex Oyster Perpetual of loudspeakers; all that marvelous aluminum and bolts construction-"oh my, it is rock solid it must be better". For better or worse, a broad segment of audio consumers think something new about the design might just be the path to the Holy Grail that all others have missed. The case sure looks nice and there is plenty of current ownership cache' but that doesn't make the product any better from an objective standpoint. I have listened to them at length at shows. They are fine loudspeakers. Fine but not all that impressive. At the other end of the design spectrum, AN-E's blew them away for their delicacy, touch, tone, texture, and pure pleasure to this listener. 
Of course the AN-E's that I heard were being driven by top-notch electronics that provided synergy. When I read the post above from some well-meaning person who mated PrimaLuna and Benchmark amps with Magico's I had to cringe. That old rotten chestnut about putting one's money in loudspeakers before source and electronics.....

Is the noise measurable? If so, have you measured the noise or have you heard the noise yourself? What model(s) did you hear the noise?

Yes it is measurable. Every model will be affected by it, even Rockports or Wilsons or kef.

Kef has recently discovered this phenomenon and has begun using meta technology to try to eradicate this noise however it is not perfect. Kef metas only eradicate the upper frequencies of this noise. The lower frequencies remain.

But at least it corroborates my claim that this noise is REAL.

Here is what KEF has to say about this NOISE:

With any drive unit, as much sound is generated at the rear of the unit as at the front (see figure 2) and this radiation is unwanted and needs to be absorbed. 

Which is exactly what i have been saying in this post. 

So next time you want to make fun of me, just remember, KEF has corroborated my claim and therefore it is supported by one of the leading speaker companies in the world. 

Vivid audio is another leading company that supports my claim. Here is what they say:

For the listener, the sound produced from the front of the loudspeaker is obviously what matters most. For us as engineers, the issue of the sound coming from the back is just as important. Unless it’s contained or dissipated, it will reflect off the back wall of the cabinet and interfere with the forward radiation, adding unwanted colour and resonance

If only Alon Wolff had been aware of ported speaker design...

Maybe someone should alert him!

BTW my Magicos sound Killer!

Best, 
-JP

The problem is people that can not afford the best LOVE to bad rap MAGICO.

Just released Magico Q7-PD (pre-drilled).

I love Magicos...too bad I can’t really afford them! But I am informed by the sound they present. Kenjit occasionally offers amusement, but little else.

Is the noise measurable?  If so, have you measured the noise or have you heard the noise yourself?  What model(s) did you hear the noise?

I was at a friends home last night and he has expensive Magicos MSRP $175,000 I think (not what he paid for them).

I was surprised how dead silent the music came out of them compared to my Vandersteen 5As.  They had an entirely black background.  I guess I will have to go back and listen more carefully to the sound.

Do you hear the noise on all music?  Will I hear the noise on solo piano recordings or a solo violin?

Thanks

Whatever issue you find with Magicos, it will not change the fact, that I am still missing my S5, after I have upgraded. Probably due to the noise...who knows.

jet 88, isn't fly agaric known as the amanita muscaria?  Loose the box altogether go Magnepan.

The OP is obviously onto something here for sure and you all know it.

Everyone knows Magico can do better a better job and this could really help!
Some well placed holes for all that noise and distortion to escape. That’s makes good sense to me!

You know what. I’m going to do it. I am going to drill holes in my Magico’s and then report the results back here to you guys. I’m friends with Sam Atkinson so we can take some measurements to prove this is legit!

I’ll update everyone right here on this thread and let you know.

One quick question. What driver am I supposed to drill the hole in? Was it the teeter or the midrange? Let me know because I want to get this right and drill these holes in the right drivers! I have an awesome new drill and a bunch of new drill bits so please let me know. I’m ready and thanks again. Great post! Wish me luck! 

Take a Mylar kite with a copper tether line, attach the tether to a yttrium needle inserted into an inflated sheep’s bladder, sealed with earwax around the insertion point. Through an opening on the other end of the bladder, attach a length of natural sausage casing with cheap twine, pig intestine is preferred, and the casing end to a Barnum bellows. Direct the bellows exhaust to the intake of a pure silver alembic containing precisely 4 drams of tears from a widowed spinster floating in a pool of mercury. Allow the distilled effluent to drop on to 7 yards of vellum treated with fly agaric extract, stretched tautly over a bronze kettle.

Now, fly the kite when a thunderstorm approaches. A successful lightning strike to the kite will travel down the copper wire, causing the yttrium needle to oscillate at 35.432 fluctons per quaternion. The resulting air displacement through the sausage casing will cause the bellows to increase pressure in the alembic forcing the spinster tears to separate one quantum of mercury gas which will strike the vellum. Due to the fly agaric’s hallucinogenic compounds, the bronze kettle will play Miles Davis’s Bitches Brew with mind-blowing fidelity to such a degree that Magicos, indeed ANY speaker will sound like a grotesquely obese man farting in a bowl of jello.

Gentlemen, as I have demonstrated with this amazing application of Natural philosophy, all Audiophile speaker manufacturers are fools, fools I say!

Kenjit- I suggest that you take your ideas and team up with millercarbon. Instead of trying to take some of the best sounding speakers in the world (Magico), you take millercarbon’s cheap speakers and try to make them better. Drilling holes, attaching springs to the bottom, will probably get millercarbon’s speakers to 
sound better.
BTW, there is nothing wrong with Magico speakers

Kenjit,if you're such an expert on speakers maybe you should start your own speaker company and build the best speaker in the world why don't you try that. And if you solved all the problems on there that good you might get a lot of people buying them. But somehow I don't think you'll do that LOL.

I have heard multiple Magico speakers on high quality systems in proper listening rooms with a variety of music. I also own a pair of Magico A3s. I have a variety of amps. Primaluna, First Watt, Benchmark and high quality DACs all running off PS Audio power regeneration coming off a dedicated 20amp line from the breaker box with a Shunyata wall outlet. All cabling is high quality Shunyata AQ and Cardas. I have never heard any noise come out of those A3s. Backgrounds are black. SQ is great with high detail. I haven’t heard noise in my system and I haven’t heard noise in my dealers listing room where I auditioned a few upper end Magico towers connected to D’Agostino amps and Chord DACs with Roon. I cannot corroborate any of your claims of noise.  

My speakers don’t have a box. Therefore, using Kenjit’s logic, they have no noise, or noise is distributed evenly such that the “noise” isn’t perceptible to the listener.

Notice that Kenjit did not offer a dimension for the hole in the box. That takes a lot of engineering knowledge to calculate that.

MC: how many holes have you drilled 😂

🇦🇺

The strangest thing is that Kenjit isn't a highly paid and renowned audio consultant, seeing how he has these deep technological insights that have yet to be discovered by any of the world's top speaker designers. It's a shame to see such wisdom being cast as pearls before swine on this forum.

And why the fixation on critiquing box speakers? Has he ever demonstrated an awareness of alternatives to the box speaker? I'm not familiar enough to know, but what's with this fetish of harping on the faults of box speakers? Why not move on and try some alternatives? You may find there are so many other engineering compromises for you to pick at, and pick at, and pick at... Expand the horizons, and stop wasting your talents, man.

Kenjit...you have avoided answering this question for several months now...what speakers do you own and listen to? Post pictures please.

Any thoughts on how the dirty noise created by Kenjit can be removed?

I have to appreciate the OPs attempt, but to what end ?. Unless, he can compare speaker A (with his suggestion) to speaker B (like Magico here) and explains everybody the difference, we can try to understand. He is not even mentioning any speaker (or brands) which has configuration to his acceptance and how good (or different) those are compared to Magico. Until then, the quote from dgarretson, still holds good. 

For those new to kenjit, please read all his past posts to get an idea of where he is coming from. Then, I am informing you that most of the discussions he has started or participated in have been removed by the moderator. The only thing kenjit likes to talk about is kenjit.

 Magico speakers aren't budget items. If drilling vent holes suits one's preference then so be it.

It wont be as easy as that I'm afraid. My original suggestion was written with tongue in cheek. So if you have a Magico, I'm afraid modifying it will be too much trouble. You would be better off just spending that money doing it correctly in the first place. 

All the best and do not be cheated.

Why pretend that you have and that they are bad?

I am not pretending that they are bad. I am just pointing out that they are noisy speakers. If you like that then fine. But considering what they charge, they should have addressed this issue. 

I think Magicos should sell for about $1k to $3k in light of this. $50k to $100k is too much for a noisy speaker.

   Tweaks and adjustments are all part of of the audio experience. Some work and others don't. However, the construction and sound of some speakers may or may not suit an individual's taste. An initial purchase may be very pleasing but after time something may be lacking or more unacceptable in some manor. Part of many games.

   Magico speakers aren't budget items. If drilling vent holes suits one's preference then so be it. However, initial purchase of a quality speaker should come with careful critique and it's performance. My statement...."Why buy speakers at a large price that don't sound good from the start?" is my opinion. To echo one of millercarbon's statements....."If it doesn't sound good out of the box forget it".

Kenjit You have never heard magico speakers. Obviously. Why pretend that you have and that they are bad? Desperate for any form of attention?

Why not try to experimentally validate Kenjit’s idea instead of dismissing it out of hand. After reading the above I was curious, so went ahead and took a two inch diameter hole saw and cut an opening into the back of my left Magico A3 speaker. As it turns out the left speaker is producing considerably less noise. There is no sound coming out of it at all. That does validate his theory.

Kenjit is simply judged too harshly here. 

   There's a simple remedy here. Take a large hole saw and drill a large hole in the back of each speaker. Then, install a flange like the size you would use to vent a clothes dryer. Then, use a long length of flexible duct hose and feed it to either an annoying neighbors yard or to that squirrel haven that's been stealing seeds from your bird feeder. Then contact Magico and offer to sell your patented design to them for a modest price. I bet they will eat that up.
   Why buy speakers at a large price that don't sound good from the start?

Let us pray......

So many kinds of noise.
On the internet, no one can hear you scream.

I do like the idea of a series so we can focus on the faults of each specific brand one at a time.
I equally support trepanation. It’s a great way to let the demons out. 

If noise is musical it should be on the recording. Noise should not be added to every recording by the speaker. That is WRONG.

Magico speakers are supposed to be noiseless designs. That is why they use heavy strong boxes. But as I've pointed out, there are many sources of noise and if you dont eliminate them all, you will still be left with some noise. The fact that they have made an omission is therefore not intentional, it is unforgivable given the cost of these things. 

Man!, every time I read dgarretson`s post, I crack up. It is a genius answer. 
Kenjit, I like your thinking and trying to see things "nobody" has thought of, but can you tell me in your experience, a good speaker that addressed this issue or have you heard, any speakers that "checks" your ideal speaker. I am about to upgrade speakers, and want to keep all options open.
Regarding your response:
"Thats a silly question. Sound is subjective. Anything can sound better than anything else. The question is.."
Since you brought "subjective" in your "objective" evaluation of Magico speakers, this speaker`s "noise" has been music to many and hence well acclaimed all over the world. May be there is a need for some "noise" to keep it musical. 

+2, dgarretson.
In fact, it’s worth reiterating until OP gets through his dense head😂

Trepanning, also known as trepanation, trephination, trephining or making a burr hole (the verb trepan derives from Old French from Medieval Latin trepanumfrom Greek trypanon, literally "borer, auger")[1][2] is a surgical intervention in which a hole is drilled or scraped into the human skull. The intentional perforation of the cranium exposes the dura mater to treat health problems related to intracranial diseases or release pressured blood buildup from an injury. It may also refer to any "burr" hole created through other body surfaces, including nail beds. A trephine is an instrument used for cutting out a round piece of skull bone to relieve pressure beneath a surface.

In ancient times, holes were drilled into a person who was behaving in what was considered an abnormal way to let out what people believed were evil spirits.[3]Evidence of trepanation has been found in prehistoric human remains from Neolithic times onward. The bone that was trepanned was kept by the prehistoric people and may have been worn as a charm to keep evil spirits away. Evidence also suggests that trepanation was primitive emergency surgery after head wounds[4]to remove shattered bits of bone from a fractured skull and clean out the blood that often pools under the skull after a blow to the head. Hunting accidents, falls, wild animals, and weapons such as clubs or spears could have caused such injuries. Trepanations appear to have been most common in areas where weapons that could produce skull fractures were used.[5] The primary theories for the practice of trepanation in ancient times include spiritual purposes and treatment for epilepsy, headache, head wound, and mental disorders.[6]

 isnt this problem inherent with > 80% of current speakers.

yes.

Or, in other words which speakers/ speaker brands have dealt or corrected this issue.

obviously <20%

And if they have, are those speakers sounding better than magicos.

Thats a silly question. Sound is subjective. Anything can sound better than anything else. The question is

DOES REMOVING THIS DIRTY NOISE FROM THE OUTPUT OF THE SPEAKERS BRING US CLOSER TO PERFECT REPRODUCTION OF THE MUSIC BEING PLAYED?  

ANSWER: 

YES

Ahh!  A rich new vein for kenjit to mine.

The problem with Wilsons.
The problem with YGs.
The problem with Tidals.
The problem with Rockports.
etc. etc. etc.

@dgarretson
This is the best reply for questions like this. Please come up more like these analogies. Sometimes, “thinking outside the box will make things clear”. 
Jokes apart, correct me if I am wrong, is’nt this problem inherent with > 80% of current speakers. Or, in other words which speakers/ speaker brands have dealt or corrected this issue. And if they have, are those speakers sounding better than magicos.

Trepanning, also known as trepanation, trephination, trephining or making a burr hole (the verb trepan derives from Old French from Medieval Latin trepanum from Greek trypanon, literally "borer, auger")[1][2] is a surgical intervention in which a hole is drilled or scraped into the human skull. The intentional perforation of the cranium exposes the dura mater to treat health problems related to intracranial diseases or release pressured blood buildup from an injury. It may also refer to any "burr" hole created through other body surfaces, including nail beds. A trephine is an instrument used for cutting out a round piece of skull bone to relieve pressure beneath a surface.

In ancient times, holes were drilled into a person who was behaving in what was considered an abnormal way to let out what people believed were evil spirits.[3] Evidence of trepanation has been found in prehistoric human remains from Neolithic times onward. The bone that was trepanned was kept by the prehistoric people and may have been worn as a charm to keep evil spirits away. Evidence also suggests that trepanation was primitive emergency surgery after head wounds[4] to remove shattered bits of bone from a fractured skull and clean out the blood that often pools under the skull after a blow to the head. Hunting accidents, falls, wild animals, and weapons such as clubs or spears could have caused such injuries. Trepanations appear to have been most common in areas where weapons that could produce skull fractures were used.[5] The primary theories for the practice of trepanation in ancient times include spiritual purposes and treatment for epilepsy, headache, head wound, and mental disorders.[6]

WHAT great system do you have with WHAT speakers that you can talk about the best speakers on the planet.You know NOTHING about speaker design.Take week off from your meaning less threads and get a life.

I will gladly come round and drill a hole so you can hear for yourself just how much dirty NOISE there is inside that box of yours! and every other box for that matter

Surely not every box. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSYgRYlhMW4

There is no need for that. It is entirely voluntary of course. The offer is there if you want me to custom tune your speakers.

kenjit if you ever set foot in my home I"ll call the police. 

Erik, I will gladly come round and drill a hole in your SNR1 so that you can hear for yourself just how much dirty NOISE there is inside that box of yours! and every other box for that matter

YEah, but since most of the energy is int he bass, once you have a port, all the noise is gone.

ports only work for bass. You are talking about bass frequencies. I am talking about mid frequencies, which do cause noise inside the cabinet. The amount of energy inside that box is the same as the amount of energy in your room. Clearly a bit of polyester wont absorb much of it.

You have just discovered the reason for ported speakers, venting the noise.  Congratulations.

Kenjit I’m in agreement with you I’ve listen to the magico a handful of times and I can’t put my finger on it as you believe it’s the midbass I lean towards the crossover and they definitely have not impressed me. I hope someday they can figure it out. All in all I consider them a very good speaker.

Where is EBM when you need him? I would have sworn he had sirens and flashing lights in his home when ever anyone mentioned Magico in a post. I believe he gets an electric shock when something less than gushing is said about them.