2. analog
  3. 167809-87971

two problems with turntable

First time poster here. First of all, thanks to the group for providing some insight as to problem solving as well as your experiences with various brands of audio gear. This sight, has been very informative over the years as well as entertaining at times.

My system:
TT-Acoustic Solid, White,(no longer in production but similar to other Acoustic Solid models), WTB 370 arm made by REGA, Ortofon Quintet, Red. This TT isn't common in US as they mainly sell in Europe, Asia and Canada
Gold Note PH 10
Innuos Zen MK3
Bryston BP17 cubed with DAC
Bryston 4B cubed
Vandersteen TREO CT
Vandersteen Sub 3 (2)
Cables IC-Audioquest Yukon, Speaker-Cardas, Power-Audioquest NRG Y3
Room treatments-GIK and Acoustimass panels

This system was put together over the past few years. All components worked perfectly very well until recently. About five months ago I broke the red lead wire on the tonearm which is the right side (+) and after the wire was replaced and sent back by a reputable dealer, I notice the left channel plays about 5-10 db lower than right channel. The dealer says that if I bring the entire TT back to the store, they will analyze completely but they're over an hour away. This problem only occurs with TT playback and not digital playback and has been this way about two months. The other issue I have is with anti skate. The recommended VTF is 2.1 to 2.5 and it's currently set at 2.28. The optimum setting I have found for anti skate is just above zero which seems odd because most set ups call for anti skate to be set similar with VTF. VTA and Azimuth settings appear to be spot on and the right channel plays perfect. Cartridge alignment was set up properly with the protractor provided. The Gold Note has two inputs and I've tried both inputs  with the same results. 

This forum has some extremely experienced and sharp minds and I hope that one or more of you can help me solve this issue.

Thanks,

George



george4471
15 responses Add your response
millercarbon's avatar
millercarbon
12,531 posts
 
Probably they replaced the broken clip with a new one and between the new clip and moving it on and off this connection is better now and this could be what accounts for your other channel being down in level. You can try removing the clip, cleaning with alcohol, and replace. If it slides on and off easily you might want to tighten. Place a round toothpick in the clip to avoid crushing and tighten cautiously. This is the most likely fix given what happened.  

Anti-skate is always set the way you did, by ear. I could write a book but all you really need to know is if it sounds right, it is right. 
mijostyn's avatar
mijostyn
8,570 posts
 
That is a substantial volume difference George. I seriously doubt wiring would do that. Might be a bad cartridge or phone stage. If you have another cartridge give it a try. If not you probably would be best off taking the hour ride.
Ag insider logo xs@2x
cleeds
5,948 posts
 
Step one: Reverse the left and right turntable leads at the input of your phono stage. If the left channel still plays at a lower level, you know that the problem is in the phono stage or amp, not the turntable or cartridge. I'd rule that out before fiddling with the cartridge or headshell.


george4471 OP
9 posts
 
@millercarbon- I will try your suggestion tomorrow  being very careful as I already know the clip and wire can be broken easily
@cleeds- I did reverse the turntable leads and encountered the same problem. Approximately 5-10 db less on left channel. Perhaps it is phono stage even though only two years old. Would you rule out the amp since this difference in volume  only occurs on TT playback?
tomic601's avatar
tomic601
12,911 posts
 
Cleeds advice first, cardinal rule isolate to component first. Nice system, bet it sounds great :-) Treo CT are a treat.
some Rega arms use a DIN at base of arm, check to see if we’ll seated

pindac's avatar
pindac
2,864 posts
 
If Digital Replays with no concerning issues.
Use the Power Amp's Digital Input as the Phon's PH 10 Input, and use the Digital Input at the Phon's Input.

If the problem Phon's Issue migrates across the Inputs, then the Problem will be looking most likely to be upstream of the Power Amp.

Can the PH 10 be bypassed to see if it has a issue, Is there another option to use in place of the PH 10.
Does the Amp Set Up have a Phono Input ?
  
chakster's avatar
chakster
6,144 posts
 
Antiskating = VTF
This is oldschool rule and it’s valid for conical or elliptical styli only.

With advanced stylus profile it must be ~ 50% of the VTF. 

You can adjust it with Hi-Fi News LP (test record).

Ag insider logo xs@2x
cleeds
5,948 posts
 
george4471
...I did reverse the turntable leads and encountered the same problem. Approximately 5-10 db less on left channel.
That means the problem is either in your phono stage, preamp or amplifier, because you wrote this when you started:
... the left channel plays about 5-10 db lower than right channel ...
...yet the bad channel didn’t follow your change.

The next step is to reverse the left and right phono preamplifier output leads at the input of your preamplifier. If the bad channel switches to the right - which is likely given that your digital sources play ok - then you know the problem is with your phono preamplifier.
oldhvymec
5,101 posts
 
MC hit the nail on the head. Go back where the problem started and CLEAN. Be careful. Simply unplugging and plugging BACK in, will tell the story..

My concern is replacing only the "ONE" wire or lead. That was not a good idea.. 3 more wires and a whole extra 5 minutes to do it RIGHT..

Maybe ADD an extra hour to the journey and use a different guy.. BUT if you're confident he can replace the others.. Next time ALL 4 at one time.
NOT just the other 3 that weren't. ALL 4 wires from the same manufacture at the same time.. Clean and inspect the cart and arm pins.

In other words, "Stay out of trouble instead of GET out of trouble"..

You're just to close to VERY small wire and connections to scrimp with patch work..
elliottbnewcombjr
5,375 posts
 
Two round trips are well worth knowing all is good if you trust them.

I would take the TT to them, let them check everything. Perhaps have them solder 4 new wires, better quality, silver solder ..., re-wire the arm with litz wire ... depends on how much you like the arm.

Meanwhile, if you don't have tools, order these:

https://www.amazon.com/Turntable-Protractor-Anti-sliding-Calibration-Adjustment/dp/B08227CZPG/ref=pd...

get/set the specs for your tonearm re:

spindle to pivot
overhang
two null points

one of these for Azimuth

https://www.amazon.com/BESPORTBLE-Cartridge-Elevation-Alignment-Headshell/dp/B08CRHW4QT/ref=sr_1_8?d...

one of these for tracking force (anti-skate OFF, zero)

https://www.amazon.com/Musou-Turntable-Backlight-Tracking-Cartridge/dp/B071P9VZ5Q/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?dc...=

Finally, flip the protractor LP over to the blank side, spin, skate is easy to see. Set the anti-skate visually while manually spinning. Check at several distances from the spindle, decide.

Then refine by ear, (ignore any #s)

1. you know via other sources that the system is balanced

2. You need both the CD and LP versions of familiar music with readily discernable imaging.

2a. CD reveals what intended imaging is

2b. before playing, pre-set anti-skate to match tracking force, just to start.

2c. refine the anti-skate bit by bit if needed, to achieve imaging similar to the CD.

My favorite, which has very discernible L/C/R is this 3 Guitarists LP

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friday_Night_in_San_Francisco

side 2, last 2 tracks they all 3 play, and the audience cues can be helpful, listen for that on the CD, then back to the LP.







lewm
13,039 posts
 
Didn’t anyone notice that cleeds nailed it? The problem is downstream from the turntable, guys. And cleeds outlined what to do next.

As to setting AS, no matter what ancient advisories may tell us, setting AS = VTF is always going to end up with too much AS. I suggest start w zero AS , listen for R channel distortion, then add AS in tiny increments until R channel distortion disappears. There are other methods of course. But the OP says he can’t hear any difference related to AS setting anyway. You can’t set it by ear if you don’t hear that changes make a difference. Either there is inherent friction in the horizontal plane that by itself constitutes sufficient AS or ?  But zero AS can do just as much damage to LPs as AS=VTF.
yeti42's avatar
yeti42
287 posts
 
Rega's anti skate scale is notoriously inaccurate, better to find a starting point with the cartridge holding on a blank disc and set it by ear for best dynamics from there, which will probably be a slight increase from the initial setting. If you use the land between lead out grooves for the initial setting check there’s no writing engraved on it first.
chakster's avatar
chakster
6,144 posts
 
THIS LP is perfect for antiskating adjustment and everything else including tonearm/cartridge resonance test. 
millercarbon's avatar
millercarbon
12,531 posts
 
The lead idea was logical seeing as how it happened. Think of the odds, the phono stage goes out right when the cartridge pin is changed. Switching the leads the signal did not follow the lead so it can't be that. Has to be either the phono stage or the interconnect from the phono stage to the amp. Or the RCA input on the amp. Always fun when something coincidentally goes wrong at the time something else is changed.
george4471 OP
9 posts
 
Problem solved.... lessons learned
I'm grateful for all the replies which inspired me to keep trying to fix the problems. Late last night I switched out the AQ balanced cable I was using between Goldnote phono pre and Bryston pre to AQ RCA cable and all the sound and details came back to life. The main difference is that you lose about 5db of gain from Balanced to RCA. Fortunately for me, I dug up a spare set of AQ Balanced cables and now the sound is back to original. I checked the original AQ balanced cable and it was clean and the pins weren't loose but the sound just wasn't right. I guess the lesson here is that a relatively new cable can look good but sound bad.

Regarding the AS problem, this is what I learned. On my tonearm, WTB 370, made by Rega, there is no correlation between AS=VTF. I recalibrated the VTF  to 2.28(recommended is 2.1-2.5). For my AS testing, I used Johnny Winter's album, Second Winter, which has no grooves on side 4. The best AS setting that worked is just past 0. The stylus doesn't move at all through most of the record. The pull toward the spindle is of course stronger on the inner grooves closest to spindle. There's always a compromise with AS setting.

For my listening test, I used "Revolver", Mono, 2014 RE, Mint condition. On a track like "Love you to" you hear the distinct sound of sitar and tabla which are very unique. On a track like "Eleanor Rigby" the strings sound delicate yet clear. Sound level between L and R was perfect, super quiet record, no distortion detected.

Special mentions here:
@chakster I ordered the test LP you mentioned, thanks
@yeti42  I agree with you, the scale for AS on the Rega tonearm isn't reliable using their numbers. At least not this model.
@millercarbon, @elliottnewcombjr Agree with both of you, the best AS setting is when it sounds just right.

CASE CLOSED
Log in to respond
More to discover
80x80
Mutech Hayabusa
80x80
ZYX Ultimate Exceed Omega
80x80
Sumiko Palo Santos