The Low Volume Loudness Dilemma

My subwoofer, a Martin Logan 1100x, has a movie mode that boosts bass so I enable that on my ipad and my low level listening is superb.  

Not sure what is considered low volume. I do most my listening at or under 70 db and it sounds excellent to me. Of course, the house of stereo is a big factor. Invest in room and room acoustics first, 350k system later.

@lanx0003 thank for the F-M curve chart! Just when I thought I knew enough, you learn something new. I have 6 different set ups in 6 different rooms of two houses, tube amps, SS amps, high sensitivity Klipsch, Focal, Vienna Acoustics and vintage Infinity speakers. I have a Klark Teknik DN 360 in 5 of the rigs. I too often listen at low volumes, late at night while reading and find a little eq boost here and there brings back the missing music @yesiam_a_pirate is searching. As volume levels rise, I turn the db boost down from +6db to +5, +4 and eventually off at full volume, which for me is only 70-75 db. 
 

i’ve often thought of experimenting with a tube based parametric eq, but haven’t invested the time to learn how to use one yet. I’ve tried software in the digital domain for eq and room correction but always revert to sliding bars and knobs on the Klark Teknik.  
 

If you like what you hear, then it sounds good.

FWIW - Most of my listening is at night when the wife is asleep, so volume is always low to moderate- and I've realized that every power cord enhancement has made low volume resolution noticeably better. My power cords are all Shunyata Delta or Venom V10 NR.

The loudness control on my Luxman 509z worked very well for this problem. 

Near field listening is wonderful at low volume.

Bryston electronics aren't the fullest sounding out there and the room is very large.

A couple of high quality subs would probably help, but the fundamental problem is the size of the room.

Sometimes people with very large rooms play their systems too loud in an attempt to move enough air to achieve room filling sound.

That makes the perception of thinness when they play at low levels even worse.

You just described what I love the most about the Variable Loudness knob on Yamaha gear.

Mission claims it book self speaker is good for low volume listening

The DSP feature on my streamer/DAC has EQ. Seems to work fine.  Also my 40 year old MAC C33 preamp has a variable Fletcher Munson knob and a 5 band equalizer.  I used this to dial~in bass to my Klipsch Belles for 20 years until I bought my first sub.

I like high sensitivity speakers with low watt tube amps for low-level or near field listening. Omega's Alnico speakers are excellent for this. 

EQ units are OK for the task except that they are fixed. Well implemented loudness function tapers off as the volume increases.

The main reason tone controls were considered bad, IMHO was they were often poorly implemented compared to the rest of the unit.  Some had excellent tone and loudness circuits while others simply did not.  The otherwise excellent Parasound P7 was a great example of a great preamp with really veiling tone controls.

The Denon and I believe Yamaha units which would allow you to dial in the appropriate levels of loudness were, also IMHO the best ideas for this I've ever seen.  Also important to note that the F-M curves are averages.  Your ears may or may not follow these curves that well, so feel free to season away as you enjoy most.

I think old Yamaha integrated amps had an adjustable loudness control.

I just hit the comp on my accuphase and it’s great and lower volumes. Full, luscious and tasty. 

Get a preamp with a loudness feature like Accuphase, they call it “compensator.” I have one and it works great.

Have a demo of Aries Cerat Preamp and DAC at Axpona next year. This might work for you.

Are there any preamps made today that offer a loudness function?  That would be your best bet. 

Another approach is to use high sensitivity loudspeakers, which excel at playing music at low spl.

I think you nailed it. Schiit makes a nice line of modern Eqs. I have the mini one on my headphone rig. It is just right.

I’m an unabashed loud listener, so this desire seems very foreign to me haha. But yes, as has already been speculated, increasingly exotic gear is not the solution - some from of EQ or a good "loudness" mode is probably the way to go.

You’ve hit on an interesting audiophile trope / anti-patten: "this system is so good (i.e. expensive) that you get full detail and dynamics even at low volumes!". I would posit that such a system (or component) is specifically optimized for low level listening, and would in fact sound quite unbalanced (too much bass and/or treble) when pushed into higher volumes. I am sure MY system sounds quite dull to low volume listeners!

They’re called “cans” or “headphones.”

No doubt digital eq (dsp) provides ultimate flexibility. Traditional analog is limited. Understanding Fletcher Munson first is the key. Also room acoustics bass mode frequencies in particular. Use a sound meter app and white noise to detect those.

+1 @yogiboy 

1. I tend to think the lesser 10-band digital GEQ will work better than 31-band analog GEQ like DBX 2231. Paul McCartney said that EQ in digital domain outperforms as well;

2. One critical aspect to consider is how one constructs the Equalized Loudness Contour (ELC), or Fletcher-Munson (F-M) curves, at different average listening levels, such as 40, 60, or 80 dB.  When applying EQ, it's important to normalize the dB adjustments (DdB in the chart), particularly to avoid distortion in frequencies that are heavily adjusted (e.g., bass). Without proper normalization, EQ adjustments can create imbalances, distorting the original sound signature by overemphasizing or underemphasizing certain frequency ranges.

If your system doesn't sound good at low volume, you have work to do.  High volume is a patch to make mediocre system sound better.  Maybe an equalizer can be an option if you like the sound. Wouldn't be for me.

Ironic that every system sounds different,  even with “purists”

Compression and parametric eq/DSP is your friend. Forget about “purists”. Do whatever it takes to address whatever problem is at hand.  That’s what technology is for.   One must merely learn how to apply it properly case by case. 

I did read the post!

"Are they worth the ask? I have a pair on order. Definitely outside my budget but I suspect that long after the price is forgotten the quality and sonic purity will continue to reward me. "

Bravo! ARC! You have outdone yourselves with this one.

Read the post, it was a post about his positive listening experience of these AR amplifiers. 

Why not wait until you get those $90,000 Audio Research amps that you posted in your last thread and see if that fixes the problem?

       There are still options available, far as dealing with the Fletcher-Munson Curve, in the modern Audio market.

                                       Pick your poison.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/should-you-use-fletcher-munson-loudness-compensation.29543/

               Who makes the rules in your listening room any way?