There's a lot of considerations that can determine which direction you may want to go.
How does your system sound to you now? What do you think is lacking? Is your system used as part of an A/V system or just for listening? Are you looking to upgrade with new or used equipment? Is space a consideration if you decided to upgrade to a larger speaker system?
You're looking into a deep rabbit hole - how much money are you willing to throw into it?
Sorry for all the questions, I know you're looking for answers. But the more detail you can give, the more focused answer people can give you.
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You have good stuff so impossible to make a recommendation without knowing more about what you hope to achieve.
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Thanks elrod,
I've been chasing the warmth of analog over the years. At times, if listening to an album with the right recording and production, I'm really happy with my system. So, I'd like to warm things up. There is nothing more irritating and fatiguing than a bright top end for me. I'm wondering if any elements of my system have an analytical, clinical, detailed sound signiture?
This is a stand alone 2 channel system and I'm always open to used equipment. I tend to bounce back and forth with floor standers and monitors...My last speaker was the Focal 1028 be. Sweet speakers, too big for my 13x25 room. I'm not wealthy, but I'm will to spend a few dollars if it seems like good move.
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In that you have good gear, rather than muck with changing the gear, consider applying DSP to tune things to sound the way you want. For example, do a trial Roon subscription and play with the DSP there free during trial and see what happens.
Frankly in this day and age once one has good gear that is well matched and set up well, changing hardware to get a certain sound is often neither cost effective or efficient.
My advice is understand how modern technology solves problems in ways not possible until more recently. DSP is the ultimate sound shaper. You just have to figure out how to apply it properly. I’d be glad to help if by chance you are located in central MD area.
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Thanks mapman,
I'm in central Wisconsin with few resources near me. I've been getting close to adding a music server to my system. Perhaps I should make the leap into modern technology with DSP.
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A familiar audio reference is a good thing. Go to a piano store - or a rehearsal hall. While someone is playing a grand piano, listen at different distances, 5-50 feet. Then listen to a recent grand piano recording on your system. Determine if the SQ in the ballpark. Tweak from there.
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Good point, after all is said and done, we should find ourselves in that recital hall...
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I am very much on the same page about the warmth. The first question is if you are happy with your speakers? The second is the amp. For me, those two determine the liquidity and the warmth. Of course the phono stage and source matter too, but I would start with the first two. I think it’s better to start with a bright and revealing system and scale towards the warm so that you know where to stop. I found tube preamp-ss amp the best combination, not too muddy, not too bright.
But it sounds like you have terrific components, I have no experience in that price range.
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Congratulations on retiring, and on having a great system. I have been retired for about five years now and my system brings great joy to me. I first upgraded prior to retirement and then again about a year after. My progress in the last decade or so have been to move to more musical and natural sounding systems. You can see my systems under my userID
The largest influence for me was having season tickets to the symphony for ten years 7th row center. I became aware of how my system focused on detail and slam and the presentation was not like that of real live music. All of this pushed me more and more towards all tubed components and Sonus Faber speakers.
Now that you have the time, consider going into the city for a day or two. Make appointment to hear systems at high end stores... explain what you have explained here. Have them assemble a system for you to listen to that they think you will find appealing. Maybe visit some audio-goners. Being retired, no reason not to travel. Hearing the kind of thing you want will help point you in the right direction.
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I have Fidelium speaker cables, but I have no experience with your other components. The Fidelium added detail to my system, but not shrillness. Sibilance, etc drives me nuts.
I’ve had success changing things by varying cables and vacuum tubes. What type of cables are you using? Have you done any tube rolling? I can add a bit of warmth by tweaking my subwoofers, but that does nothing for high frequencies.
It looks like you’ve selected some very nice gear.
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@larseand
You do have a nice system. What do you want to change? What do you think your system lacks?
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As a retired person learning about streaming music will make one’s life easier. I’m pretty sure they invented it for old folks.
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Maybe it’s your room. You never mentioned if it was treated or not. Do you have tiled/wood floors? Windows? These things would make your room more sterile sounding.
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Congrats on retirement, I am three years in and enjoying it very much. And a nice system, I too have the Reference One’s, a very capable speaker. How is your listening time split between analog and digital? Any plans to add streaming?
If you are leaning towards digital, then a separate DAC is a consideration. Unfortunately the Mimas does not have a preamp input which would allow you to experiment with some different preamps. I have been on a preamp quest for the last several years, and it is certainly a large part of determining the sound of your system. I recently upgraded from my Pass preamp to Audionet, this has been quite a revelation.
Not sure what central Wisconsin means, but I am in Duluth if you want to hear a different front end with the KEF’s. You are welcome to visit.
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Congratulations on retirement! I’m in the same situation as you, and have been upgrading after many years of stasis in my system. I addressed high end hardness with replacing speakers and my preamp. Building upon excellent advice here, I have learned the most from attending multi day audio shows EVERY DAY (make a mini vacation of it!). Going every day reduces the anxiety of rushing room to room, and allows for more serendipity and reduces audio fatigue. My earlier experience in this method allowed me to zero in on speakers that sounded naturally extended in the highs but did not have a hot and hard high end. They ended up being a new version of speakers that I already owned.
I especially agree with the comments regarding streaming. My musical horizons have expanded enormously through streaming, as it is so easy to explore. How else would I have learned about such wonderful bands as The String Cheese Incident or learned about the Grateful Dead’s Betty Boards?
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Back in the day, I did run a tube pre and SS amp, I agree, likely the best balance of musicality.
Thanks to all. I believe my take away here is to get out of the house and visit Minneapolis and or Chicago. Recommendions for reputable shops?
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Laresand
retired two years ago myself best thing I ever did, but I was surprised how little I listen to my system since I retired moved from New Jersey to North Carolina and most of the time when I’m sitting down to relax or have a cocktail, I sit outside in our screened patio. The weather is so much nicer down here all year that I spend more time outside than inside when I retired I figured I’d listen to probably every album I have. I think I’ve listened to about three albums since I’ve retired mostly stream when I do listen to my system.
You have a great integrated amp I have the Pallini and an atlas
so before you change anything sit down and think about your activities when you retire how much you’re gonna be listening to your system like I said, I thought I’d be listening a lot but hardly listen to my system. I still listen to music, but it’s usually on a pair of bluetooth speakers out in my screened patio and unfortunately, my Vanderteen Quattro’s aren’t waterproof or otherwise I’d move them out there.
enjoy your retirement
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Those Focals were efficient enough to use Tubes for both Pre and Amp which is what I think would give you a preferred sound.
Never heard them, I wondered why you thought the Focals pair of 10" drivers too big for your room, had a quick learn. Perhaps this explains it: "the Powerflow double port system, which greatly enhances the performance of the bass. "
My room is similar 14 x 24 and I have a pair of 3 ways with 15" woofers, horn mid, horn tweet. Previously used JSE Model II’s with a 12" and 10" with Richard Modafferi’s patented Phase Shift Bass as well as his Infinite Slope Crossover which Joseph Audio still uses to great respect. He gets both extension out of the 12 and 10 together, and tames them, Focal doesn’t tame them, and adds additional untamable port output
Electrovoice Engineers helped me design my enclosures (drivers were originally in a Fisher President II Console), they have a rear port that is closed here, I used them open in prior location with an open room behind the speakers.
Richard Modafferi’s Patents
I vary the toe-in depending if one centered listener or two off-center listeners
Toe In Alternates
I bet JSE Model II’s would sound awesome in your space.
My friend has my Models II’s, they still sound awesome, I just missed my inherited speakers
A pair in Texas, make an offer, a road trip to hear them, or pay UPS to pack and ship to you. Seller says Rosewood, but they are walnut stained red I bet.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/175688092340?mkevt=1&mkcid=1&mkrid=711-53200-19255-0&campid=5338381866&toolid=10001&customid=9001f43c-b005-11ef-bf69-363733393366
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Oh yeah, congrats on your retirement.
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This is a special situation that I have experienced of late but that no one else is mentioning. Everything about your system sounds pretty good to me, but for us retirees thought should be given to things we can't change. Ourselves. If you consulted an audiologist (you can't be far from Madison) you might get an idea about what to do with your system. All my life I have laughed off all equalization and balance controls. Not any more. Now I can adjust things so the center vocals are back in the center and maybe I can do something about making those sibilants stop driving me crazy. These can be easy fixes that don't require too much messing with your speakers (especially) or electronics unless adding a tubed front end like me might liquify things a bit. I have a hybrid integrated coming with some equalization available but using or not using that will just be an exploration (like everything else). If you don't want to go see a doc (unfortunately I see one in the mirror every day) get a pair of Apple Airphones Pro, now on discount about $160, and do the Hearing Test app they've just enabled. Don't worry. You can still enjoy your hifi just as much. And then you can mess with your equipment if you like. By the way, going to a live concert, unamped, is a pretty good idea as well.
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If you want to add warmth, I’d go with an all-tube integrated in place of your hybrid. Issue of course is your speakers are pretty inefficient -85 db, 8 ohm (but dips to 3.2) so you’d need a tube amp with guts. That would also require a new DAC, but I’d guess that’s your system’s weakness anyway (emphasis on “guess”), and there are alot of nice sounding DACs that don’t cost a ton. Octave Audio and Audio Hungary are two tube integrated brands that come to mind for me.
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Greetings,
I find this discussion quite interesting, especially Mapman's comment regarding DSP. I know nothing about Roon or DSP, but having the ability to customize the SQ is certainly intriguing. After reading a little bit, does Roon automatically come with DSP? Do you need to purchase a Roon server? I currently have an Aurender A15 which is Roon ready. (whatever that means) Last question. Is it advisable to use a separate PC to run Roon?
Thanks to all!
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I won’t change anything on your gear, maybe try some interconnect and power cable.To just experiment what happen.Most cables company and dealers have return policy. Since you are retired you have the time to listen.
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@lovehifi22
DSP is part of Roon when you buy the license and during free trial.
It’s a total game changer. I have stored DSP corrections for 5 different rooms at home and a similar number of headphones.
Definitely worth the time to learn how to use to get exactly the sound you want. The specific equipment used becomes much less relevant.
Roon runs on most common home computer devices, including Windows, Mac, smartphones, tablets and most any hifi streamer worth its salt these days.
Roon core is the server component. You can run it on specialized hardware designed specifically for it or most any decent home PC or Mac. I run my Roon server on a small desktop PC that I also use to work remotely, etc and that works quite well.
Hope that helps Check it out! Free trial period available still I am pretty sure so nothing to lose
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I don’t care what anyone on A’gon says,you can not get natural warmth from speakers with metal drivers!
Dump the beer cans & get speakers with natural materials...
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@larseand I get all of my equipment from Quintessence Audio in Morton Grove (Chicago). I like them a lot and give them my highest recommendation. If you give them a call I’m sure they would be happy to help and if on the phone you decide what equipment you’d like to audition and make an appointment, they’ll have everything setup before you arrive. If you are not quite sure what you'd like to audition, visit the shop and explore. Cheers.
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@larseand it depends what your objective is.
You can improve the sound of your system or add a streamer and gain access to pretty much unlimited music library. Or do both. Depends on your budget.
You have an amazing CD transport and a weak link with an integrated amp inbuilt DAC. You will have to buy a high end streamer to match the sound quality of that transport.
Or get an outboard DAC and bump the performance of your CD playback up a few notches.
If you like the speakers there’s no reason to switch them out.
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"I don’t care what anyone on A’gon says,you can not get natural warmth from speakers with metal drivers!
Dump the beer cans & get speakers with natural materials.."
And here I am thinking that metals are natural materials.
I learn so much here...
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I've always questioned the DAC board on the integrated. It was a $1200 uncharge when the amp was built for me, I have always regreted not going a different direction...
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No regrets. If you want to keep the amp, you can always add an upgraded external dac. And if you’re like me, you may prefer vinyl as your primary source for serious listening anyway.
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Nice system, if you come to Chicago visit Quintessence Audio, great store with 3 rooms and systems in each room based on Hifi tiers, I also extend an invite to come hear my system , I’m in a Chicago suburb, also retired now 6 years. I’ve built my system on a synergy approach and have enjoyed it very much. Also maybe you could come to Axpona in April 2025, in Schaumburg, best way to see and hear many systems. Good luck on your search.
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Congratulations on retirement. I have reached 1 year in retirement and I am enjoying myself while waiting for my wife to retire shortly so we can travel the US and Europe. You have a solid system with no glaring issues other than whether you have addressed power quality issues. Good power conditioning will improve all areas SQ (timbre, background silence, dynamics, and staging/imaging). My favorites are the Shunyata Denali or Everest, or Audience Adept Response T series. Of course, the progression would be to separate lines. Before you go on an endeavor to make improvements, attempt to critically analyze where your systems strengths and weaknesses are compared to your perception of live music. For example, do you believe your system is too analytical or not detailed enough; do believe it is true or false to timbre; do you think dynamics are weak; etc. Then read pro reviews on equipment in your budget, compare that to pro reviews of your equipment and determine if the differences line with the improvements you wish to make. Remember, pro reviews are guidance and you must audition. Finally, go to a good retailer, explain your objectives and the research you have conducted asking for their assistance. Try to negotiate a demo and return in your system to give you a chance to validate the improvements in you system and home.
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+1 for AXPONA. I went this year to hear a variety of speakers, and systems of course. It is a great way to get some perspective. I was able to rule out a lot of them, and put some on my wish list.
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DSP would be a good idea. At least get a view of what your curve looks like. Modifying things along the curve could be a really good thing.
And then I'd buy a puppy
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@larseand More often than not bright sound is a byproduct of a system lacking in the bass department. Have you optimized your subwoofer integration?
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A puppy is THE best advice so far!
I think I've got my subs in a good physical space and dialed in with monitors.
I have to say the DSP is a bit intimidating.
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Nobody on the board can tell you how your system sounds in your room and if it works for you. All the suggestion to change components may or may not accomplish what you are looking for, which to be honest, is somewhat vague. Why do you want to switch you DAC? Do you want to add streaming? I think if you better defined what you want to do, you'll get better answers.
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lol! Yes, a good pet can definitely add warmth to your system. And re DSP, I also am not a huge fan of adding (more) digital processing to one’s system if one can avoid it. Another obvious way to add warmth to your system is thru your speaker choice. I believe your KEF’s are known to be very detailed speakers. A different approach would be something like a nice pair of Harbeths - they always make me smile.
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