What it is the difference between slow or fast blown fuse? Does have ant impact in sound?
Synergistic Red Fuse ...
I installed a SR RED Quantum fuse in my ARC REF-3 preamp a few days ago, replacing an older high end fuse. Uhh ... for a hundred bucks, this little baby is well worth the cost. There was an immediate improvement upon installation, but now that its broken in (yes, no kidding), its quite remarkable. A tightening of the focus, a more solid image, and most important of all for my tastes, a deeper appreciation for the organic sound of the instruments. Damn! ... cellos sound great! Much improved attack on pianos. More humanistic on vocals. Bowed bass goes down forever. Next move? .... I'm doing the entire system with these fuses. One at a time though just to gauge the improvement in each piece of equipment. The REF-75se comes next. I'll report the results as the progression takes place. Stay tuned ...
Any comments from anyone else who has tried these fuses?
Any comments from anyone else who has tried these fuses?
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OK, Meanwhile I found folowing answer which seems to be logical and could be usefull if there is no mention in manual. Anyway, if there is something wrong or to be added, please do, I would like to clarify this aspect and order some fuses next week. " The answer to this depends on the application. The main purpose of a fuse, in any application, is to prevent a fire. If the fuse is in the loudspeaker circuit, ie, in series with the loudspeaker as a load, then it needs to tolerate occasional overloads, but open on continued overload - so, medium slow blow. If the fuse is in series with a transistorised power supply's pass transistor, then it needs to be a very fast blow. If the fuse is in the mains input lead before any power supply unit, then it needs to sustain the start-up current required to charge the main filter capacitors - so, slow blow. In summary, look at the application." Fuse in Linn Numerik DAC it is located next to power in socket, so I assume that it is before any transformer power supply, so it should be slow blow? Thanks |
Mlaurentiu, I looked at the manual for the Linn Numerik DAC, and at the section of this Wikipedia writeup which among other things addresses BS (British Standard) 1362 fuses. It appears that the 5 amp fuse referred to in the manual is in the mains plug, not in the DAC itself. The DAC itself apparently has a fuse with a MUCH smaller current rating. That rating is not indicated in the manual but may be indicated on the rear of the unit, and/or on the fuse itself. Also, note the following statements in the Wikipedia writeup: There are two common misconceptions about the purpose of the fuse in a BS 1363 plug, one is that it protects the appliance connected to the plug, and the other is that it protects against overloading. In fact the fuse is there to protect the flexible cord between the plug and the appliance under fault conditions....I’ve seen separate indications confirming that the 25.4 mm length dimension is the overall length of the fuse including the end caps, and so I’m not sure that the 6.3 x 32 mm fuses provided by SR and other makers would fit in the plug. Also, I found this set of time/current curves for the BS 1362 fuses, which can be used to determine whether those fuses fall into what is generally considered to be the fast blow or slow blow categories, or into something in between. Post back if you’d like me to make that determination. Regards, -- Al |
Hi, thanks for your feedback, so I just reach home and I check it exactly, I should do this from the begining: I found out that the fuse have size of 5x20 mm and the size of the wire inside fuse it is very thin (I suppose arround 0,2mm), so seems to be fast burn fuse. On the other side, I found out that T from description of fuse comes from slow burn fuse. It is wright? Also, one the fuse and backside of DAC it is written that fuse it is type T800 mA and consumption it is aprox. 20VA. |
A T800 fuse is slow blow. The thinness of the wire reflects the small 800 ma (0.8 amp) current rating of the fuse. Also, given the reports that have been made in this thread by several people indicating that in some applications SR fuses have had to be derated somewhat to prevent them from blowing when they shouldn't (i.e., to have current ratings that are a bit higher than specified by the equipment manufacturer), it would seem prudent to choose an SR fuse rated at 1 amp, rather than 800 ma. Both ratings provide a wide margin relative to the 20 volt-amp consumption of the DAC, but the brief current surge that may occur at turn-on could be significantly larger. Regards, -- Al |
what about amplifier where existing fuse it is 4A slow blow? Next value from SR it is about 5A. Do you recommend also greater value of 5A?Yes, based on a number of experiences that have been reported earlier in this thread that would seem to be a prudent thing to do. In my opinion, from a technical standpoint there is negligible risk in doing so. The only possible downside I can envision is that if an unrelated problem arises in the amp, and the amp is under warranty and the manufacturer becomes aware of the substitution, they could conceivably use the substitution as an excuse to not cover the cost of the repair. But even that seems very unlikely. Good luck. Regards, -- Al |
The smokescreen of personal attacks and other nonsensical rantings only prove my point about these fraudulent products…nobody can explain the technical design aspects of "special" fuses or "magic transducing aluminum jujubes" that provide so much imaginary glee to the believers because there IS no explanation beyond plucking out terms like "Quantum Tunneling" or "Transducers," and tossing those phrases into the hype. If these things work I simply ask, again, why? How were they developed? What do SR fuses do to the electrons before they hit the circuits? I think these are reasonable questions that if asked of an amp designer or even a gear rack or speaker footer company (Or car manufacturer or wine maker) there is no hesitation to at least try to come up with reasonable technical explanations, but with this stuff it's NADA, and will likely remain so, as this is profit driven scamming at its most (or least) transparent. |
nobody can explain the technical design aspects of "special" fuses ....FWIW, I for one certainly can’t. I’ll say also that it seems to me that audio is somewhat unique in that there are countless technical variables that can be cited for which it is not readily possible to define a quantitative threshold separating what may potentially be audible in some systems from what is unquestionably insignificant. In the absence of that kind of quantitative perspective there is essentially no limit to what a perceived or claimed sonic effect can be attributed to. Or misattributed to. Best regards, -- Al |
I have the SR Blacks on the power inlet of my Plinius amp, and on my Backert preamp, Modwright Oppo power supply, and PS power regenerator. The results confirm the benefits others have described here, particularly with the amp. But so far I’ve balked at replacing the four additional rail fuses in the Plinius, just because of the cost. Is anyone here able to give impressions of whether I can expect comparable improvements with the rail fuses? |
Naunc0 ... I have two rail fuses in my ARC CD-7se. Replacing the stock fuses with the SR Black fuses was an ear opening experience. Very analog like. Way more of the total presentation became available. The huge reduction in smearing really allows one to enjoy the complexities and inner detail of classical music. Things just appear more "live." wolf-garcia, aka Wolfie Cotton Ears ... Why do you continue coming into this thread with the same worn out diatribe? You complain about "personal attacks," and yet, it is you who continue attacking. Here's more evidence of your people skills. And all of this from just one post: " personal attacks" ... " nonsensical rantings" ... " fraudulent products" ... " imaginary glee" ... " this is profit driven scamming." OP |
People like us who stupidly evaluate sounding machines by ear without much care for measuring are kind of a therapy for this kind of Trolls. As many of us do, when I read a forum discussion that makes me nervous I stop reading and search another. The Troll looks only for discussions where opinions dislike him and enter it. He is sure to be right against the world and will show to people all around the world who he is. So he forces us to take his opinion and so his person in consideration. He is often outrageous and definitive in his opinions for provoking reactions of some of us. So endly, he exists. when hunters want to hunt some birds they use whispers imitating their voice. The birds come and bang bang... If you want to make trolls appear there are some magic words. Some of them are : "Does someone know Acoustic System Resonnators ?" Just write "TW-Acustic makes great TTs" and Syntax will suddenly appear in the discussion. There are many others we could list but we are serious people that judge music machines by ear first. Wolfie Cotton ears can write as often he wants I just don't read his posts and I am happy to part of his therapy for free. |
almarg 6,669 posts 09-03-2016 1:26pm nobody can explain the technical design aspects of "special" fuses .... FWIW, I for one certainly can’t. I’ll say also that it seems to me that audio is somewhat unique in that there are countless technical variables that can be cited for which it is not readily possible to define a quantitative threshold separating what may potentially be audible in some systems from what is unquestionably insignificant. In the absence of that kind of quantitative perspective there is essentially no limit to what a perceived or claimed sonic effect can be attributed to. Or misattributed to. Best regards, -- Al We’ve been over all that. There is no mystery here, folks. It’s straight physics and metallurgy and some common sense thrown in for good measure. This is all starting to sound like the great cable debate that’s been going on for what, thirty five years. Fuses, like cables and wire, have evolved over time. In the case of aftermarket fuses it’s taken say twenty years. Like anything else, a fuse can be improved. How, you ask? We discover problems. We solve them. We learn, grow. |
^^^ As previously pointed out earlier, this thread has become like a group of guys meeting down at the local pub. It started out as a thread regarding SR Red fuses ... and has developed into far more than that. Its evolved into a continuous discussion about other tweaks (especially SR tweaks), electronics, speakers, music, recording recommendations and even family. Its become a place where we can join together as friends with a common passion. The problem starts when one, two or even a few of the visitors have way too much to drink, then filled with liquid courage (think keyboard courage), start violating common courtesy and believe its permissible to push others around who are enjoying their time yacking it up at the pub. So, the question becomes what to do with these miscreants? Do we continue taking their abuses, or do we continue showing them the door? I vote for showing them the door, while at the same time exposing them for the Sad Sacks and bullies they really are. In the meantime, the system is sounding better than ever before with one of the very best mid-ranges I've ever experienced. The superiority of analog was always a given in the system, but now well recorded red book CD's are WAY beyond the point where I ever thought digital would be. Over the past year, WITHOUT CHANGING ANY OF THE ELECTRONICS, the system that resides in my listening room has been transformed from a very good audio system, one that I could have lived with from now on, into a magic music machine that I wouldn't want to live without. I have many posters here to thank for that. OP |
naunc0: My Marantz SACD player has 5 rail fuses which I replaced one at a time. I heard a progressive improvement after each fuse location was updated. So I definitely hear an improvement after replacing rail fuses. One approach to your situation that requires 4 fuses is to take advantage of the sale of Synergistic Research SR-20 and Synergistic Research Red fuses just announced at highend - electronics Inc. They have an ad here on Audiogon under tweaks. The SR-20 are $29.95 and the Red fuses are $34.95. Be sure to determine if your 10 amp fast blow fuses are small (5 x 20 mm ) , or large (6.3 x 32 mm) . They may not have all sizes available. Perhaps the Cable Company, New Hope, Penn. is also having a sale. I do think both of the fuses will improve your amp over the stock fuses. David Pritchard |
Parts Connexion has the SR Red and SR basic on sale as well: http://www.partsconnexion.com/fuse_syn_main.html |
In my opinion Audio Magic Beeswax SHD fuses are better than the blacks. I know they are very pricy (for fuses) but they worth the money. I have AM SHD in my pre and Blacks in the amps (also in the DAC).. I think the improvement in the Pre superior to the one in the mas and much to my gusto and system. The Blacks could be Beethoven, Mahler or Bruckner, the AM could be Mozart. 🤒 |
Naunco: Actually I did just what you said. I first replaced the stock rail fuses with the SR - 20 fuses and then upgraded to the SR Blacks. There is a further improvement in using the Black fuses in the rail circuits. But to me there is still a significant improvement in replacing those awful sounding stock fuses. If you can get the values you need at the SR-20 sale price I would not hessitate to do so. Both High End Electronics and Parts Connexion are good companies to order from. barbapapa: It certainly is a wonderful time that we have these excellent fuses to alow us to enjoy music in such a meaningful way. I do think one can often get that special sound by using more than one brand of product. Each of stereo systems is on a household circuit that has 5 wall A/C outlets. My systems sound their best using a mixture of wall outlets. Currently I am using Synergistic Research Black, Synergistic Research Teslaplex, Furutech GTXD - R, and PS Audio Premier outlets in a mixture to achieve the best sound. I think you have expressed a wonderful analogy. I want a bit of grit, funk, texture, and palpability in the music environment I listen to and so the the Audio Magic may not be the best fit for my system. But I also love Mozart. There is simply no other composer for that style of music. I do hope to try an Audio Magic Beeswax fuse in the future. Find the right fuses and A/C wall outlets for your system and you will be rewarded by truly great sounding music. David Pritchard . |
David, Ok with all you say much better than I do. I just ised an image that came to Mind and is valid in my system in my room with my own musical preferences My system is all connected to a Furutech gtx ncf (hese it is SWS NCF) outlet with a Torus transfo. In Europe there is no SR Schuko I think. Sometimes I ask myself where we will be in say 5 years with fuses that seems to be better and better with each new serious version... As odd as it seems it is impressive what a 100€ can do for our system that costs thousands. |
Hi Barbapapa, I do not doubt your preference for the Audio Magic Beeswax fuse, taste and variables determine choice. There's an ongoing thread about a product called the Holo Audio Spring DAC which is an interesting R2R configured converter. A good friend of mine has ordered one. He told me that they are very enthusiastic about the Audio Horizon Platinum fuse. They apparently have tried the SR Black and the Beeswax and they believe the AH Platinum is better in their DAC. So as expected preferences and opinions will vary. P.S . Audio also advocates premium fuses for their components but not a specific brand/model of fuse. I believe any of the three fuses are quite worthy upgrades for all good quality audio systems. I happened to have chosen the SR Black but I'd likely be very pleased with these other premium fuses. Charles, |
So, again, there is no attempt at a reasonable explanation of how or why a half inch of fuse wire in a tiny glass case packed with graphite or beeswax can get all that mojo going…the lack of even a weak attempt at addressing this mystery, and considering anybody who stands for reason (except Almarg, who gets a pass…deservedly) a troll is an apt response among the Believers who seem to simply not care about the technology, but don't hesitate to toss piles of money at it based on faith…it's all sort of adorable…like scared sheep huddled against a frightening passing cloud of reason. |
Well Wolf, I can’t help but think that you comparing `Believers' to scared sheep is akin at this point to crying `wolf’ one too many times. I have absolutely no dog in this fight, haven’t touched a fuse in my equipment for years, but your continued railing against the subjective experience of posters here is getting a bit tedious at this point. Let it go, dude, you can’t save everyone, even as religion has proved time and again. If I were to only realize contentment based upon knowing why/how everything in this crazy world ticks, then anxiety would be constant……..and I, for one, don’t mind a little mystery in life. Give it a try sometime, you may like it. |
charles1dad: The Holo Audio Spring DAC is certainly generating a lot of interest. I think it is exciting they they have auditioned a number of fuses with their DAC. My 300 B amp is sounding very athletic with the Sophia Princess Carbon Plate tubes versus the more ethereal - smoother Psvane WE tubes. I will soon be auditioning the newest Sophia Blue glass tubes. It really is exciting to have so many good choices to achieve that special sound so many of us seek. David Pritchard |
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Wolfie Cotton Ears sez: "... the Believers who seem to simply not care about the technology, but don't hesitate to toss piles of money at it based on faith…" Count me in as one of "The Believers." Contrary to Wolfie Cotton Ears' above statement, there is nothing about the SR fuses that was "taken on faith." The only "faith taken" was the faith that the dealer would honor the 30 day money back guarantee on the initial fuse purchase a year ago. Nope, nothing has been taken on "faith." Everything stated in this entire thread was taken on HEARING THE RESULTS. True that there are those of us who couldn't care less about the technology. So What? I'm a salesman not a techno-dweeb. I don't sell the steak ... I sell the sizzle. I worked as a salesman for a few years in an ultra-high end audio store. While there, I saw the owner, (an engineer) master mind his way right out of business by overwhelming prospects with technical jargon until their eyes glazed over. What was lost on the owner was that the prospects weren't coming into the store to spend money on low slew rates, wire metallurgy, or speaker cone material. They came into the store because they wanted to recreate reproduced music as accurately as possible in their home. Because of the owner's failure to understand the prospects basic needs and wants, and his continual refusal to learn basic salesmanship, I watched while an entire fortune was flushed down the drain and the doors of a fantastic audio store were closed forever. On the outlay of cash: My system uses five fuses. That came to a full retail cost, including state sales tax, of $659.00. What have I received for the cash outlay? I've gotten in return an audio system that completely disappears. It doesn't call attention to itself in any way. Its totally three dimensional at this point. The instruments are reproduced in a very believable way. The dynamics are amazing, from the softest triangle strike to the big tympani's and the lowest organ notes. Its quite amazing, really. Vocals are "reach out and touch it" real. When you can take a truly great amplifier like the ARC REF-75 se, that bowled you over by its grain free presentation straight out of the box stock, then simply replace the stock fuse with an SR Black fuse and discover what the meaning of grain free truly is, well ... that's worth the price of all five fuses combined right there. Why would I need to know how the fuses work at that point? I don't need to know. I just want the music. That's it, period. Each year, its estimated that approximately 350,000 1/4" drill bits are sold in the U.S. Did the buyers of those drill bits want drill bits, or did they want 1/4" holes? Do they need to know how drill bits work, other than knowing how to attach the bit to the drill motor? Nope. They just want the hole. Dear Wolfie Cotton Ears ... try to get your head around this: We don't want the fuses. We want the music the fuses so greatly improve upon. Simple, no??? OP |
I like the accesory "Fuse" because it is : 1- inexpensive (as an accessory) 2- Very efficient (in many systems, be it SR, AM, AH, Furutech' etc.) 3- unexpected : when the first audiophile fuses appeared, who could believe it could make such a difference ? No one I net.4- there is several manufacturers that made their fuse sound all slightly different one each others. So with the help of the audiophile community you can have a first valiable approach to expected results in your system. With the help of good return policy you can test "in real conditions", in your system and balance the sound by putting a SR Black here, and an AM'or AH there. It's a kind of cooking we all make and that is part of the fun when we buy an X pre to mate with an Y amp etc, or am I wrong ? Last year I tested several expensive speaker cables (5ooo to 6500€ for a 2,5 m stereo). I kept none. Yes several were audibly superior to mine but not enough for the difference in price. When I discovered the difference an SR Red did in my pre : wow ! For a mighty 79€ it was great. After that I heard of the SR Blacks thanks to Oregon Papa and this thread. I looked at all the fuses and all what be said around, I installed a AM Beeswax that made me happy in the pre and sometimes later, SR Blacks in the amps and the DAC. Very happy too. When The Beeswax SHD appeared I replaced the pre fuse with it. Not fully broken in (about 40 hours only) and it is soooo musical and airy. The musicians and singers seem so happy to play together, I consider it now superior (in my system, room, tastes etc) to the Black. I believe in Fuses because I tested them with my ears and brain. No need to substitute machines to tell me what is good or bad. In a way of being a bit provocative if we speak of faith, so yes I have the Faith in Fuse. To my delight I heard his Word'and it has lighted my audiophile path. Being serious anew a think a kind of competition is beginning and maybe in a few weeks SR will biuld a new one still better and so on. As for bank cards there will be the Gold, the Platinum etc 🤑. A new territory is being explored by the builders and who knows where it will stop... As my girlfriend discovered recently (we are together for a few months) : "Mais mon Cheri, your Hi Fi... It is endless?". |
It seems this thread has run its course with respect to believers and naysayers, with all the parties planted firmly on one side or the other, except Geoff who has no fuses in his Walkman yet enjoys working the bellows to keep the fire hot. Any attempts at humor seem to have evaporated like the magic dust inside of a blown “audiophile” fuse. With respect to Oregonpapa, the original question he posted was “Any comments from anyone else who has tried these fuses?” Therefore, this thread was never intended to be an argument over the scientific validity of "audiophile" fuse technology but rather a discussion of what people do hear. I have tried the SR reds but didn’t hear the “bang for my buck” so I am mostly happy using UL/CSA Eaton Bussmann type fuses. I think this thread is best left to those who have discerned sonic improvements from installing “audiophile” fuses in their hi-fi systems, and from orienting those fuses so the half-inch fuse wire is pointed in the right direction. Agreeing to disagree can be a reasonable resolution. |
Hello David, I look forward to your listening impressions of the Sophia blue glass 300b tubes. I’ve auditioned many 300bs over the years and it was both fun and informative. Mitch2, I believe that the vast majority here at this point share your recognition of "agreeing to disagree ". It seems that the arguments have been exhausted with no new points being made. Either the fuses improved your system or they did not. For many posting here they did. For a few they did not. Charles, |
^^^ Okay, hard as it will be, I'll try to keep quiet out of respect to the other posters. Hopefully, my last post made sense to "WCE." Some music not to overlook is the small group trio stuff done by Harry Connick Jr. He's an excellent jazz piano player and he really cares about the quality of the recordings he puts out. I listened to two of his CD's early this morning and the group was right there in the room. Very accurate piano recordings. OP |
Hello Frank, For clarification I was not suggesting that you need to be muzzled. I was just expressing my own observation that what more can be said in terms of rebuttal from either side. Harry Connick sure was a big name during the 1990s primarily as a vocalist. I'll check into his piano recordings, thanks. This weekend my wife, her cousin and I attended the Detroit Jazz Festival downtown on the riverfront. Beautiful sunny,80 degrees and no humidity, perfect weather and large, happy enthusiastic crowds. We got to hear Rod Carter, Russell Malone,Roy Hargrove, Marcus Roberts and other terrific jazz musicians. Wonderful live jazz the entire weekend! What a treat. Charles, |
^^^ No problem, Charles ... Your post made a lot of sense to me. There's been way too much energy spent hoping that somehow through osmosis some logic might seep into the brains of those who should already get it. They don't. They won't. No matter how one tries, their stubbornness prevails. So what's the use of even trying? With the improvement of resolution and musicallity in the system, I'm discovering some really good artists. I had a couple of Harry Connick's CD's and one of his LP's for a number of years. Like a lot of music in my collection, they just sat dormant on the shelf. Well, I got out the LP of Connick's "When Harry Met Sally" sound track and played it. VERY enjoyable indeed. That led me to discover Connick's recordings of his jazz group. No singing, just good piano jazz accompanied by other accomplished musicians. Good stuff ... and it swings. When I hear Connick sing I'm reminded of a combination of Sinatra, Torme' and Jack Jones. I guess you could call the guy a song stylist. OP |
Frank, Due to your efforts this thread has made many music lovers aware of a very good tweak, myself included. You should be justifiably proud. Different topic, Frank do you have any recordings of Hampton Hawes? He was a first rate West Coast style pianist. I really enjoy him, as they used to say, this cat can play! He did some wonderful collaborations with Harold Land and Jim Hall in the 1950s. Charles, |
