Hello Family, I`m old school 76 I just don`t understand this streaming and dac business. I`m still stuck on my RTR`s, Cd player and PASS lots of power. It sounds very interesting. I was once told that I could also do some serious taping using my RTR`s I`d would like someone to tell me what gear I would need and how to set it up forget my desk top or lap top. I`ve heard terminology used like Innos zin mini, Bluesound Node, Aurender Are they streamers? what is Roon, Qobuz, Plex? whats the purpose of a dac? I`m on fixed income `what`s the best gear I can get for 1500 mostly buying used gear to began. Thanks
You and I are peers of exact same age, and quite possibly, share the same digital Tech skills. In the late 90's I concluded that chasing great sound in both vinyl and digital worlds was financially unsustainable. I opted for the digital future and never looked back. No regrets. My musician son has a pleasing retro vinyl rig and I continue having great respect for high-end vinyl playback for those with the means.
Find a skilled Audio Tech in setting you up to stream lossless music from your PC or laptop to an outboard DAC (digital to analog converter.) This allows you to use the remainder of your current analog system. With a reasonably modern computer, the cost is pretty much free for the required software. Military discounts can also be found on streaming services for under $12.00 a month.
The richness of the music availability and quality of playback is...put simply...stunning! Is the best vinyl playback possible better than digital streaming capability...maybe, but it's not my concern. I'm a music lover first and foremost. Digital did not strike my emotions UNTIL the late 90's, and it was game over as the technology advanced.
Maybe you have a college or university nearby to find a Tech savvy student with music interests? It IS intimidating, however, there ARE solutions, including ultra-convenient controls from a tablet or laptop from your sweetspot.
A close friend / audio guy / musician is approaching age 80 and uses his iPad to stream from TIDAL. He loves modern classical and modern jazz and raves about the quality, ease and access whenever we visit. Best wishes!
For me the main enjoyment of streaming music has been the discovery of new bands and new music that will never see the light of day on corporate main stream radio. You can find the bands and music from streaming net stations like Austin Blues Radio for free.
Well late to discussion but I am also 76 and have hearing aids, but still like to hear music and its nuances. Not sure what you meant about forget laptops and not sure your internet situation, but my simple system is a laptop connected to my Rotel A12 playing thru my Meadowlark Kestrel Hot Rods. I use Amazon for streaming, already a Prime member so HD streaming is $99 for year. Rotel has internal Wolfson DAC which I find more than adequate. So investment in laptop ($300), Rotel ($550) and speakers (used$4oo if you can find them). for a total of $1250. The Rotel has a remote which surprisingly works with my laptop so I can adjust tone controls (I boost bass and treble due to my hearing loss) and can skip, pause, etc. Love streaming as I can choose an album I feel like listening to and music will just stay all day on this genre with no effort on my part.
@reubent when he (sheridanmartinj) becomes familiar with streaming and like it, and when he wants a better sound from streaming, then that will be the next chapter, a big one too...lol
Streaming can bring you, via the internet, virtually all the music in the world (as long as it's been digitized and made public). This in my opinion is its biggest advantage. Opinions vary about its sound quality compared to analog (vinyl, RTR).
If you own a smart phone and headphones, then you already have a streaming platform of sorts. Subscribe to a streaming service (Tidal/Qobuz/AppleMusic/other) then download the supporting app to your phone. This is the way millions of teenagers and young adults listen to streaming music. I prefer to listen through my main stereo rig, but a smartphone and cans provide a good way to dip your toes in the stream.
If you decide you'd rather listen though your main HiFi system, then in my opinion, a Blue Sound Node (~$600 US) is a relatively simple and low-cost way to get started (via a USB/Coax/Toslink or analog RCA connection to the HiFi rig, plus application software you run on a smartphone/laptop/desktop/tablet).
I'll add to brunomarcs suggestion. I was going to say something similar but he beat me to it.
First, check to see if your CD player has a digital input for accessing the DAC. It is most likely an RCA (coax) digital input or a optical input called a Toslink. If it actually has a USB input you are golden. If it has any of these you are off to a good start. The reason why this is important is that the DAC in your CD player will be much better than the DAC in your computer or phone. By hooking your laptop up to your CD player you avoid the computer's DAC and are able to do the D/A conversion in your CD player.
Second, odds are you have a laptop sitting around. If so, check to see what type of outputs it has. It certainly has USB but higher end laptops sometimes have a digital out. If it has only USB and your CD player doesn't have a USB input then you will need a gizmo that will convert USB to optical or coax. You can get a Douk Audio U2 XMOS XU208 Digital Interface on Amazon for $55. You will also need to order a Toslink or digital coaxial cable depending on which one you use.
Next, I would suggest a trial subscription to Qobuz. It will have more music than you can ever listen to and it's high quality. It's only about $12/month if you pay for a year at a time. You are now streaming.
Lots of audiophiles swear by expensive dedicated streamers but my laptop setup sounds indistinguishable from the CD of the same title vs. Qobuz. I don't expect streaming to sound any better than playing a CD through $8k worth of transport and DAC (PS Audio PerfectWave MK II DAC and Transport).
My last comment (sorry for the long post) is that I may be waaaay younger than you (I'm 67) but I'm in a similar situation . I run Thiel CS6 speakers with a big Krell amp and I have over 4000 CDs and a thousand vinyl records. Even though I have more titles than I can listen to I love having Qobuz. I'm always on the hunt for new interesting music, some of which may be decades old and I somehow missed it, and now I can just call it up and listen to it at CD quality. It's wonderful.
Ha. Surely the poster has an internet connection and either a smart phone or a computer. I took my smart phone an older IPhone, with a 3.5 mm out and two rca's on 6'' cable I found. Plugged into a preamp or aux on his receiver, play a tune from YouTube and see if you like streaming, no need to spend any money or let alone learn what a roon endpoint is at this point. Your making things hard for this fellow!
It's not gonna be the best sound in the world but he'd have an idea how it's done, he already has a dac in the phone or pc.
Why are you folks making this so difficult. This fellow just wants to learn more about streaming and if it might be an option for him. So here's a few hints. #1 it appears you have internet access because you sent this email.... Do you have strong internet access in your house with WiFi? If you do, you are 50% there. Do you have a smart phone or a tablet and know how to download an APP and use it? If you do, now you are 70% there. Do you have a stereo system with AUX input?.......Go to Amazon and buy a WiiM Mini Streamer device ($85)....You would need to spend hundreds more for a 10% improvement in sound quality. once you get it, plug it into your AUX input on the stereo, turn it on and the connection to your WiFi will be made. Once that is done, get a music subscription. I suggest Quobuz at first. There are many music services and you join and drop off as much as you like to find one that suits you best. Once you have purchased a music source, the WiiM will access it through the WiiM APP on your phone or tablet.....start looking around in the service on your phone or tablet . Find a type of music or a particular performer or an album you wantbto listen to. Click on it and like magic it will be playing throughbyour speakers. Start enjoying millions of albums, musicians, songs......this is the easiest and least expensive way to get into streaming. You can always go crazy and upgrade to the stuff the folks above are suggesting. Good Luck!
Most of the posts here describe entry level systems which is what you will get SQ wise. To think otherwise is foolish. If you get a bluesound/ifi/blue jeans setup, you can always move this to a bedroom for background music when you want to get better Sq in your audio room.
The BlueSound Node is a good entry into streaming, but it’s internal DAC is it’s weakest component. I upgraded to an MHDT Orchid DAC (has an output stage tube). The SQ upgrade is significant. I even plan to soon go further soon with SQ improvement and get a Teddy Pardo external power supply for the Node. Then I won’t feel quite like the Node is the weakest link in my signal path.
@ham_firl- I was going to mention the WIIM Mini Streamer. It is super easy to use and sounds pretty good. No, not as good as a multi-thousand dollar setup. But at $99 (currently on sale for $89 on Amazon) it will get you started and you can play around with streaming and decide if you want to spend more money later.
You can use free Spotify to get started. And, Radio Paradise is free and streams hi-rez FLAC.
@sheridanmartinj - If you are interested in dipping your toe into streaming and need a bit of help, please feel free to reach out to me. Would be glad to assist you getting started without investing a small fortune and with as little drama as possible. Trust me, it's not that complicated. All you need is an internet connection and a simple streamer, like the WIIM Mini (and a cable to connect it to your audio system).
I'm another oldster and I gotta say that streaming is truly the beez kneez. Sure, I've got thousands of LPs and hundreds of CDs, not to mention maybe about a hundred 45's. But streaming is truly so much more. It's like having the key to the record store, with damnably good fidelity to boot. It's utterly liberating. You cruise Qobuz, or maybe Idagio if you're classically inclined. You make a couple mouse clicks. Suddenly you're listening to the record you wanted to hear so much during the 1970's but just didn't have enough change in your pocket to take home. On the classical side, it's just plain wonderful to be able to cue up a familiar work performed by an artist you've never heard of, or listen to that symphony you never got around to buying.
I’m past retirement age and just got my first streamer and am having a blast listening to new and old music that I would have never been able to hear. Also there are a few threads here on Agon talking about what other people are listening to and I’ve learned a lot about new to me music.
Forget abt more complicated stuffs abt streaming, to start off streaming, u need to have a good wifi connected to the Internet. And here, we have free Spotify to get use to streaming. Tidal also offers 1 month free music streaming svs before subsr.
If you dont want to spend much, start off with Only $99, you get a WiiM Mini streamer with a high-quality Burr-Brown PCM5121 onboard.
Read on here
I enjoy streaming.
One of the great things about online music streaming services is the sheer variety that is available. On pretty much all streaming services there are millions upon millions of songs to choose from. This is great because you are sure to never run out of music to listen to. Some streaming services like Tidal and etc even offer radio channels and music viodeos.
You can discover new music on daily basis.
My greatest streaming fav being you can personalise your fav artistst with your fav songs. Example like this
You don’t need to subscribe to multiple channels. Just subsc to one of either Tidal or Qubuz or Apple music or Amazon music, thats enough.
I am a discriminating audiophile with pretty good hearing still, and I am quite happy with my $600 Bluesound Node, without using an external DAC and using wi-fi rather than an ethernet cable. It was easy to set up the streaming, but you need to control it from a smartphone. It was far more difficult to get it to connect with the music files on my computer, but I'm guessing that's not a concern for you?
You can plug the Node into your preamp and tape from it just as you would from any other source. If you want to hear new music or different performances of works you already have, streaming is a great way to do it. I subscribe to both Tidal and Qobuz for CD-quality or higher-resolution music, with no commercials. Each has some content the other doesn't have, with Tidal being stronger for popular music. With streaming you can also have access to hundreds of conventional and internet-only radio stations in any genre you can think of.
I bought a used Bluesound NODE 3rd gen and listen to free radio, iHeart and Radio Paradise. I’m using the built in DAC. It sounds wonderful! MUCH better than my CD’s on a high quality player.
You can spread out the expense. Buy a bliesound. And a ethernet cord. Blue jeans cable will make any length and Cat 5-8. I trialed Q buzz against Amazon. It sounds just as good. $9 a month. You can trial as many as you want. Then, if you like, a separate DAC can be purchased. Schiit, TOPPING, Denafrips, are few examples. You will need a COAX for Bluesound to DAC at that point. Good luck. It will be fun going back and listening to the entire album that you haven't heard for years. Don't shy away from nw music, more talented people than ever.
At 75 now, I have a hate-hate relatioship with computers. I know I'm not very smart, but computers make me feel even more stupid. The last thing I would ever do would be to have to rely on a computer to listen to the music I love so much.
Not going to subject myself to that self-imposed torture. I will most likely die without ever streaming music, but who knows, you may love it.
To get up and running easily with, bluetooth, wifi, ethernet, tidal, qobuz, roon, and also get decent sound quality, you can get this 1 device (also a nice match for PASS).
I gave this unit to a buddy of mine who had no desire to get into the technical woods of streaming. Just plug it in and listen. You would need to subscribe to a streaming service but that is easy to do.
You would connect this DAC’s RCA or XLR outputs into your preamp. I am assuming you have a preamp since you mention a CD player.
If you go with WiFi on this device, it can get a bit tricky, and an occasional reboot of the DAC may be needed when it does not work. With an Ethernet wired connection it works 100% of the time.
BTW - I have a different steaming setup that is as good as it gets but is much more complicated. The suggestion I am making is very good and rather simple.
I’m in the 70’s club as well. Today you can get the same or better sound quality and with streaming and have access to nearly infinite music. It is actually a complete game changer… and you do not need to get up. You can see my systems under my UserID.
Streaming is like all other aspects of audio… you need carefully chosen equipment and you get what you pay for.
If you want equivalent quality to the rest of your system then the streamer and DAC should equal about the same cost as your preamp, or TT, or amp. Or you can take a budget approach and get budget sound quality.
Qobuz is the best service. $14.99 / month gives you access to millions of albums. You plunk down your streamer, turn on, add an app to your iPad and control your streamer from there.
Unless you like to, fiddle with computers, skip Roon, you don’t need it. Life is too short.
For high end look at Aurender streamers, ARC DAC
For toe dipping Bluesound or LUMIX Streamer, and Schiit DAC.
You've gotten some good advice on the set-up and how-to for streaming. The big advantage of streaming music is access to an enormous library of music that you could never possibly collect on your own. I've got a subscription to Qobuz and their current library has over 80 million tracks. Compare this to my personal collection of just over 60,000 tracks. Qobuz lets me instantly check out new releases, new-to-me artists and composers, along with material that I've read about or had recommended to me. If I like it, I can mark it as a favorite to make it easier to find again.
Now, if you're happy playing the same songs over and over, you can skip streaming with no big loss. However, if you still enjoy finding new artists and new music, there is no better way than streaming to accomplish that goal.
What is your budget? Do you have ethernet cable to your rig or Wifi? What is the CD make and model? CD player will have a DAC and if it has digital in you can use that. Otherwise get a streamer with a DAC.
There is no particular reason to embrace streaming if you are happy enough with your current set up. In fact it might be a negative being on a fixed income, between the cost of new gear and the monthly cost of a streaming service.
Essentially streaming is a different way of hearing digital music. You can either hear digital music from your CDs, or you can copy those CDs to a hard drive. A streaming service keeps those recordings on their hard drive somewhere else, and you pick the ones to listen to with a device such as a tablet or phone, and you pay a monthly fee.
Think of the brand names you mentioned as being analogous to the brands of cars. Streamers are essentially computers, gussied up to look and sound like audio components. They are subject to the same problems that networking computers are prone to.
DAC is Digital Audio Converter. It converts the 1s and Os in the stream into sound. CD players essentially have two parts: 1) A transport, which reads the the data on the disc, and then sends it to 2) the DAC, which converts the digits into sound, and then sends it to the amplifier. Streamers also have to send digits to a DAC to make music. Some come with DACs included, some without.
In your situation, why would you want to explore streaming? First, the large services offer a lot more choice (albums) than most of us can collect. Second, streaming makes it easier to pull in Internet Radio, and you might find that very rewarding. Streaming also makes it easier to obtain Podcasts
There is a constant debate as to what sounds better, streaming or CDs. At the risk of enraging many here let me editorialize that the difference is minor, equipment dependent, and possibly not apparent to aging ears.
I can’t help you with the RTR question. Try asking in the Analog Forum
You can get an iFi Zen Stream ($399) plus a Khadas Tone 2 Pro DAC ($299). These along with a Qobuz or Tidal subscription ($20/month) will let you listen to a vast amount of music! You do need an Internet connection/modem. This can be free through a Federal program aimed at increasing high-speed ’Net access.
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