Still looking for a new Moving Coil Cartridge

Must you have an MC? In my opinion, there’s more bang for your amount of bucks and your taste if you would consider an MM or MI type.

Yes, I love the delicacy of the sound.  What MM might you suggest though?

The Grado Sonata 3 is a MI and would be a good match with that Technics arm! BTW, if you don’t like it you can return it!

https://gradolabs.com/cartridges/timbre-series/item/121-sonata3

Nagaoka MP500 or MP300. Delicacy of sound is not a monopoly for MC cartridges. I agree with Grado too.

I am a little nervous about a wood body.  Does the Grado have threaded holes or do you need to use those impossibly tiny nuts?  If it doesn't have threaded holes, it would be a non-starter for me.  My hands are not as steady as they were just a few years ago and an accident most likely would happen.  I wish I had kept my Shure V15 type 3 and my expensive Pickering and ADC cartridges from the 70's era.  Everything sounded great with those MM cartridges.  Fresh Air 2 sounded amazing back then.

@lewm, How would the Nagota cartridges sound with my Rock records, that is the most important thing to me?

All the wood body Grado cartridges have threaded holes!

Delicacy of sound is very important to me as well. Is higher end Koetsu delicate enough? In this respect my higher end Grado is superior to the similarly priced Koetsu which it replaced. Bonus is that Grado tracking is much better. And the holes in my cartridge are threaded.

Ortofon black mm with that technics. You will be blown away. 

If you listen some each week, I suspect you are wearing out your stylus before replacing it.

IMO, no matter what cartridge you choose, you ought to get an advanced stylus shape. The ZU Denon is conical

"0.2 mm square base diamond, crystal aligned, conical cut"

Hana S series is Shibata, a great choice.

https://www.sound-smith.com/articles/stylus-shape-information

estimated longevity of various stylus shapes:

• Spherical / Conical - 150hrs
• Elliptical - 250hrs
• Shibata/Line contact - 400hrs
• SAS/MicroRidge - 500hrs

I chose Audio Technica AT33PTG/II

https://www.audio-technica.com/en-eu/at33ptg-ii

Microlinear on Boron. wider 30db separation; tighter 0.5 channel balance.

My experience: stiffer cantilever = better bass. Shure's Beryllium was stiffest, best bass I ever had, no longer made. Not big difference, but each small difference adds up.

Note: Audio Technica has a trade in program for MC cartridges. I sent mine in, suspecting worn, yes, they sold me a new one for half price!

estimated longevity of various stylus shapes:

• Spherical / Conical - 150hrs
• Elliptical - 250hrs
• Shibata/Line contact - 400hrs
• SAS/MicroRidge - 500hrs

The rest of the story you missed or forgot, 

This is not to say that at 500 hrs a SAS stylus is "worn out" - but at that stage the wear has reached the point where distortion at 15kHz surpasses the level specified by Jico for a new stylus. (Which I believe is 3%).

Some manufacturers have traditionally defined a stylus as being "worn out" when it starts to damage the record... in these terms the figures provided by Jico can at least be doubled, and in some cases quadrupled.

The OP wants a reduction in surface noise.

+1 Nagaoka MP500.

Ortofon black mm with that technics. You will be blown away. 

The Zu/Denon cartridge was retipped by Andy at the needle Clinic in Washington state I believe back in 2018. I have less than 100 hours on the retip as I was using the newer Dynavector until it got ruined by a curious little boy.

My feeling is that the best bang for the buck is a Denon 303, even if you pay to retip (301, 302, 304 likewise, or new 301 mkii). Bang for the buck, that is. I have two Grado Ref Sonata 1's, one with a micro re-tip...both sound very good, second best bang for the buck. I spent 3 months with a Nagaoka MP500, trying all sorts of things, and never liked it as much as either Grado--stock or retip. Could be my system (Denon 47F and Denon 60L).  I thought my Stanton 881s, even with replaced stylus, sounded better. The other MM I also like better is a Grace F9e if you can find one reasonable, with soundsmith stylus....although slightly finicky for setup (much affected by proper VTA I thought). I was very surprised how good this sounded. The other bang for buck, mc-wise, other than Denon, may be a new Hana SL, on sale. I also use a Benz micro ruby HO (wood) in a different system and it is best of all, but pricey and but needs higher mass tonearm. I wouldn't worry about wood one way or another.

Remember MC cartridges are much less nephew proof than mms

My Hana SL is not threaded. It has those impossibly small nuts. 

I’ve had my Hana ML for a couple weeks now, I am super impressed. Got it on sale at Upscale. Maybe give them a call. I talked with Bill quite a a bit and he really helped me pick out my cartridge. I had several in mind at my price point, $1k and under. He really took the time and I’m glad for it. 

To address the tiny nuts issue, you can buy a new headshell with the cartridge and have the seller pre mount it.  They can probably align it for the Technics too.

The Nagaoka cartridges are fine but if you want quiet and R+R slam the Goldring 1042 is the ticket. 

roadcykler

OP says using the ZU/Denon sparingly (for 13 years _____?)

Using Dynavector for a couple of years.

If OP is thinking about a new cartridge, I PRESUME he listens enough to ask for help. Thus I mentioned stylus life, OP knows the answer, not me.

I gave the link for the whole article, and a blip of info

Everything's relative, multiply them all by 4, the difference of +250 hrs becomes +1,000 hours.

crustycoot

Does anyone have experience with buying a headshell with pre-aligned cartridge?

.........................................

I could not ’trust’ a pre-alignment, I simply couldn’t do it.

Not to mention, personally getting it ’right’ is part of the enjoyment every time you drop the needle.

And, of course, the proliferation of TT with arms with fixed cartridges opens pandora’s box for so many.

I vote for acquiring a few inexpensive tools and learning how to get it ’right’. Sets you up for the rest of your life.

If you want to buy the Hana and are just looking for affirmation here, just buy the Hana. Divergent opinions from strangers whose audio systems and tastes you don’t know will likely continue to appear here for a few weeks. 

I have a Zu Denon DL103 that came with a turntable I bought.  It sounded awful and I was going to throw it away, but decided to send it to Andy Kim to see if he could bring it back to life.  Boy, did he ever! 

I have a Hana SL and it's a very nice cartridge, but the Zu has more detail and is more lively, if a little less "refined" than the Hana.  The Hana is a fine cartridge and would be different, but to my ears, not "better".  If you like a warmish to neutral sound and if the Zu is a bit too wild and wooly for you, the Hana might be a good choice. 

I suggest reaching out to Andy and see if there's a way to tailor the sound of the Zu more to your taste.  That would be the best "bang for the buck" option in my opinion.

Hana SL is very exciting cart to listen. I have also the ML which I love.For your needs the SL is the way to go.

OP

"I listen to 95% 60’s, 70’s and 80’s Rock and want whatever cartridge I purchase to make the records sound good without excessive surface noise."

Where are you getting the LP’s?

I had a LOT of LP’s, bought in 60’s; 70’s, 80’s. Then along came CDs. LPs gathered dust, friends gave me their used LPs ... I had about 2500 lps, some new, then I inherited 4,000, mostly Jazz played once.

When I started playing my old ones again, OMG, noisy, nearly unlistenable.

I developed my manual scrub routine, and was/am very happily surprised, they play much much quieter than when dirty. Night and Day difference.

You need to get aggressive with them, dirt has been pushed down into the grooves, and modern stylus get deeper in the grooves, digging junk out if you don’t get it out.

I mean SCRUB!

What I mean to say, no new cartridge will make them as quiet as you hope, but aggressive cleaning will help a lot, with any cartridge.

I only discuss equipment I have had personal experience with.

Goldring Eroica LX (low output MC) with Gyger II stylus:

My friend owned one, was not set up for MC, so I mounted/played it here. Nice, but we both preferred my AT33PTG/II (what a stupid name).

Recently he got setup for MC, played it thru his system. Nice, but he's going back to his Grace MM which sounded better to him. I hadn't heard the Grace recently, but when I set it up properly for him it sounded damnnnn good I remember.

He knows what to do to align, but does not have the steadiness to do it himself. I still do, for how long??

In my OP I said I wanted little surface noise. That does not imply my records are dirty.  I have a VPI 16.5 RCM and all my records have been cleaned and put back in the jackets.  I just don’t want a cartridge that emphasizes the surface noise and I want whatever cartridge I buy to sound fantastic with Rock music.  
 

There have been a lot of different cartridge recommendations but no one is telling me they will make my rock records sing.  Does anyone have first hand experience in the cartridges recommended with rock music?  

To explore 'stiffer cantilever/better bass', I bought a

Sumiko Talisman S, Line Contact on Sapphire Tube

30dB at 1kHz. Channel balance: 0.5dB, tracking force: 2gm

https://www.stereophile.com/content/talisman-s-mc-phono-cartridge

Overall, I actually like it as much as my AT, and who knows if I hear what I want to hear, but I think there is a speck tighter bass playing Cecil, Mila, Niels/Sam

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternate_Spaces

mila drumke, my funny valentine

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukrNpHCDSjc

double bass, niels and sam

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Jvz_hcTZ9k

I listen to my AT more because it is on my long arm/fixed cartridge, and the talisman fits my removable headshell arm usually with my new AT Mono with advanced stylus on boron that Steve at VAS made me.

Anyway, Sumiko, Talisman S: very highly recommended

There are far too many variables from one cartridge to another to enable one to say that a stiffer cantilever, per se, makes for better bass.  One way to get relevant data would be to buy two samples of the same cartridge, both bearing what you deem to be a "flexible" cantilever.  Then send one sample off to one of the re-tippers and have him install a cantilever that you deem to be stiffer, but with the same stylus if possible or at least the same stylus shape.  Then listen and take measurements.

OP,

I don't mean to insult you, but I am suspecting you are NOT buying those LP's new. More than likely, even if bought new by you (as so many of mine were), they were played with conical and elliptical stylus, and 'stuff' got pressed deep down in the grooves, now to be found by modern 'deep groove' stylus shapes.

My friend has a ultrasonic cleaner he loves, but it does not clean my old lps as well as my vigorous scrub method does. I don't know why, but they play quieter after my method.

IF a cartridge can play a noisy LP more quietly than another cartridge, I don't want it, what else is missing along with the noise?

A great cartridge can kick ass on any type of music.

Speakers 'best for rock' were crap.

So many options;  For MC, I went with a Hana SH (high output) into the MM port of my McIntosh MA352.  It was in replacement of an Ortofon 2M Black.  Similar in price but the Hana is such a noticeable improvement.  The Hana is so much more forgiving on less than perfect vinyl than the 2M Black.  The details, rich bass and warm sound are all much better.  My local audio place that set up my turntable was pushing Hana even before when I went with the 2M Black and now I see why.

Hana SH

Swapped in my Audio Technica VM750SH to see what a $500 MM sounds like on my second system. Always good to recalibrate one’s sonic apparatus. Played 3 albums. Switched back to the resident, rebuilt Decca Maroon. No comparison. The Decca trounced the AT. I can’t imagine being stuck at that lower level of audio non-enjoyment!

Forget all the suggestions above and buy the Denon DL-103 cartridge.  Then get the wood body for it and you are done.  We own the Gold Bug cartridge and Denon makes that also.  For the price of the DL-103 and the combination with the wood body you would be hard pressed to match the sound quality no matter what you buy at any price.

Happy Listening.

I have an Ortofon Winfield and a Benz LPS (my favorite)...both excellent

Bigkidz I think the OP is upgrading from DL 103 to Hana SL. I both have the DL and SL. Both are excellent.

With 28,500 LPs and 60 years experience, I prefer the Dynavector 20X2 L cartridge. It works great with my modified SME IV, with the Zesto Allesso SUT as well as EAR 864 and EAR 912. It is so highly valued by friends and myself because it permits us to enjoy ALL our LPs, from 1948 monos to current production. I had higher end cartridges and they made newer (post direct to disc era) LPs sound fantastic but not as good with early stereo and mono (I should purchase a mono cartridge though as that is better suited to mono 1950s LPs grooves). My best friends also own the Denon 103 in both plastic and remodeled ceramic body versions. Both great choices.

Hello, All of these choices seem great for different reasons. I think I agree with getting the Hana SL. Also, Sometimes Hana has an upgrade deal in case you want to move up to the ML later on. For rock I would keep at the 2.0 gram weight/ VTF for rock/pop. If you have the kids, pets, or cleaning person coming too close to your tt then remove the head shell after you are finished listening. I put my stylus guard on my Hana in case the cat gets curious. Music Direct is where I bought my Hana. I might get a second headshell so you can swap out. Also, I would buy the 7mm Funk Firm record mat. It sounds great. I think MD sells all of this with free returns in 60 days. I hope this helped. 

There have been a lot of different cartridge recommendations but no one is telling me they will make my rock records sing.  Does anyone have first hand experience in the cartridges recommended with rock music?  

What does "make my rock records sing" mean to you?  Perhaps nobody has addressed that because it's not really descriptive.  I can't think of any cartridges I've owned that didn't play rock music as well as any other music.  I listen to rock probably 70% of the time.

Stereo5, Nagaoka, Goldring, Grace, AT, etc, will make your rock records sing, in part depending upon your tonearm, phono stage, amplifiers, and speakers. The world is full of good cartridges. Hana can do it too, but MC cartridges in your budget tend to a thin, bleached sound IMO.

Dear @stereo5  : Your best option should be to get a Dynavector again. Obviously you can't go wrong with and today that model comes with up-dates over the one you have.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,

R.

Hello, You were asking about surface noise or to have a cartridge that produces very little. The issue is that is usually caused by the record or more likely a poor cartridge setup. SRA/VTA (not the same thing) can be very forgiving. This is why there are tonearms with VTA towers to adjust on the fly. Also, anti- skate isn’t always exact unless you have the right tools to set it up. Azimuth is only setup electronically. Yes you can make sure you cartridge or headshell is level but the problem is that more times than not it is setup wrong. A Fozgometer 2 cost along with the AP record is $450. So what’s left? The most important thing which is zenith or your cartridge being moved left or right in the headshell. You should not just eyeball the cantilever on a lined mirror. The stylus can be off by upto 5 degrees from the manufacture. The reason why I am bringing this up is to tell you to skip a Shibata Stylus. It is very difficult to get it setup right. The Hana SL, Dynavecktor 10x5 mk 2 and a few others have this stylus. I would try to find a Fine Line or  Geiger (Ortofon) stylus that mimics a cutter. 
I would go with the Ortofon 2m Bronze. It has a fine line stylus. ( much easier to set up over Shibata) you get silver over copper instead of just copper in the 2m blue or 2m red. Plus, the bronze have a touch of warmth which is great for rock/ pop. Plus, When someone destroys the cantilever you can just replace the stylus. Moving Magnet will work better for you for now. I truly believe this is right for you and you will save some money to put towards something else. I hope this helps. 

If surface noise is the issue, clean the records rather than buy a new cartridge!

My preference in that price range would be an AT OC9XML.  It's very detailed, neutral and has very good dynamics and slam.  I have had a lot of experience with AT cartridges.  PROPERLY SET UP, the cartridge is quite good.  

Hana ML. Above your target price, but worth the leap!

noromance

when you say rebuilt Decca Maroon, does that mean an upgraded Stylus from the standard Spherical?

..................................................

Decca Maroon from Factory:

" $950*

The London (Decca) Maroon cartridge is the same as the Super Gold, and the Gold, except for its SHPERICAL stylus tip. This results in playback that is slightly less detailed than the more costly London (Decca)s. But this cartridge is a favorite of collectors of costly LPs because the spherical stylus profile is the safest possible configuration that has the least potential to damage the grooves, in case of improper setup, or accidental maladjustment. The more modest price can allow it to fit logically into many budget systems."

That's listening to the 'safest'.

....................................................

Proper alignment of advanced Stylus Shapes (i.e. Line Contact as all the high end Decca's use) IS very important, but when done right the result is superior as Decca themselves state.

fleschler

"28,500 lps .... I should buy a mono cartridge"

Of course you should, I cannot believe you don't have one.

..........................................

I read/learned here the true advantages of a real mono, dipped my toe in the water, bought a Grado Mono, $100. made the big difference that was described here. I demonstrate the difference for all my friends, they end up getting a Mono cartridge themselves.

Next I bought an AT33 MC Mono body with a broken cantilever, and had Steve at VAS rebuild with Advanced Stylus Shape on Boron. Wonderful.

Two friends bought Mono cartridges Steve had ready to go. Luckily we live close enough to visit the shop and listen to various cartridges on Steve's system. Hearing them helps you commit to the higher cost,

Jim went Advanced on aluminum +/- $600. Another friend went Advanced stylus on boron, +/- $700. Mine was less as I provided the AT33 MC Mono body I bought via Aledo/Yahoo for $38. Shipping cost more than the body, just under $100. total.

Cameras: "Get Thee Out of Auto".

Mono LPs: "Get Thee a Mono Cartridge"!

Anyone near enough to me Plainfield, NJ 07062, come on by, have a listen. Or call Steve at VAS, Cliffwood, NJ 07721, go to his shop, what a dizzying treat that is, and meet his son Ray.

btw, VPI is in the same building as VAS.

Mono? Sure, ideally. But my Mayajima Zero mono is not as good, on mono, as my higher end Koetsu stereo. My higher end stereo Grado is better yet. Close, yes - but inferior refinement.

Unfortunately, with your budget, you’re not going to get much. You really need a Hana Umami Red MC cartridge before you will get anything listenable. That is the best bargain in hifi but still about $3500 ish.

@elliottbnewcombjr I am totally on board with the Manual Cleaning Method for looking after a LP. I don't use the owned US Tank the Neil Antin manual method has superseded the use of this.

Relating to the Hana SL, this is a Cart' I have not been attracted to, my own one has been sitting idling from non-use for quite a few years, that does not mean it is an unacceptable Cart', I just haven't been able to become Wed to it.