Speakers for triode tube amps

Tekton = NIghtclub speaker , Sounds just the old disco speakers from the 70's

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNEcet9Ftlk&t=319s

Late to the party but would you consider a horn speaker?  My Viking Acoustic Grande Voix are 98db.  Check out the Viking line starting with the Berlin R and call David Counsell who is the owner, designed and builder.  

Nola Boxer S3 which are 90 Db efficient !

Because it’s a fantastic speaker, available from and fully supported by Signature Sound in NYC. I’ve bought parts from Rich at Sig Sound to upgrade my own set and he has an inventory of speakers, drivers and crossover part. Any other questions, Sherlock?

^^^ WHY suggest a speaker that is no longer made by a company that no longer exists?

Merlin Music TSM are a smaller stand- mounted speaker that work very well with modestly powered tube amps. Read the reviews. There are a few threads here on Audiogon discussing amp options.
I’ve driven mine with higher powered amps like the Thor Audio TPA-60 EL34 based monoblocks and also a lower powered (16w /channel) KT88.
I play loud in a medium sized room (90 plus db at the listening position not uncommon, and 16x17x9 room)
These are excellent speakers if you like an honest presentation with minimal boxy colorations.

Dump the no floorstanders parameter & look at the Living Voice dynamic speakers..
IF you really must have stand mounts how about the Exotic Monitor from Salk Sound?

My TEKTON Pendragons are 5 ft. tall and running on an 8 watt SET from China....hahaha....Live sound concert style .Awsome and don't forget to get a Denafrips Ares 2 DAC...what a combo. And very affordable.

Another recommendation to look into Audio Note. I have an old pair of AN-E/Ls (92 dB efficiency). I am driving them with a 2A3 SET amp, 3.5 watts, and they will play way louder than I can tolerate, without distortion, in my modest 11.5” x 11” room.

The only way to know for sure is to try them, but it’s hard to imagine your amp won't be very happy driving ANs. They are just wonderful, musically engaging speakers, IME.

The budget is 10k, and they cannot be floorstanders.

@samuelg Well that limits things. At this point my recommendation would be a monitor sized speaker like the ZU Omen Bookshelf, and get yourself a set of Swarm subs to handle the bass. This will keep in in budget and yet you'll have full bandwidth. The Swarms are easy to integrate into the rest of the system and can prevent standing waves from messing with the room so you get proper bass at the listening chair. The Omens are easy to drive with most triode amps (we have a lot of customers with ZU products) and the size will work. The only bugaboo is ZU is sold out of them, but that could easily change soon. 

The Teton as good as sand bathing suit chaffing my sack after day at seashore 🦀 

Have you thought about Zu Audio?

I have a pair of P3esrXDs running from my Octave V70SE and very much enjoy them. I’ve also hooked them up to my PrimaLuna EVO 400 integrated and love the warm sound they produce when the 400 is in triode. I am aware that some don’t like the sound of Harbeths with tube amplifiers, but if you do, I’d say you will probably like the P3s. 

I had a pair of these, with the phase plug upgrade and they were great sounding. Steve just has a way with making things sound great.

Simple design, but very effective.

https://www.decware.com/newsite/DM945.html

If you are looking at using a triode tube amp, you might want to read this article- it will help you sort out what you are looking for:http://www.atma-sphere.com/en/resources-paradigms-in-amplifier-design.html
FWIW most of the speakers mentioned on this thread are of the Power Paradigm persuasion.


Apparently the Spatial is an excellent recommendation- its well priced and easy with triode amps.

don’t buy anything with multiple drivers. The more drivers, the less appropriate the speaker is for tube amplification."

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https://www.google.com/search?q=VMPS+elixir+speakers&sxsrf=AOaemvJuCjbUJ0bssX2o1Gth0or7O1Nxqw:16...

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Really?

I ran my RMx Elixirs (under 9 pairs left on earth) 93 or 5% efficient speakers. At just 8 watts VERY close to this set up.. Just a better analog set up for me. I've seen this set up several times CES was my first to see TA newest gear.. Been a while..

I borrowed the SET amps from a buddy, I almost pulled the trigger and ordered a pair.. I held out and was over joyed when I found and modded a Cary V12r just for planar work.. The manufacture use to say EL34s are made for HIS speakers.. He was 100% right..

I've never heard anything like it.. Multi driver, WEIRD configuration, mind-boggling results.. Otari MTR-12 and a Minahan TT. (12 to 15 built)

Weird STUFF, weird people... Just like me...

Multi drivers, nothing better..

Regards

@pauly,
"It’s not simply a case of choosing a speaker with a high efficiency rating. You need to choose a speaker with a very benign impedance curve. IOW, don’t buy anything with multiple drivers. The more drivers, the less appropriate the speaker is for tube amplification."

In general that advice has some merit but not as a blanket statement.
I was able to drive a friend’s Tekton Double Impact quite effortlessly with my 8 watt SET amplifier. The speakers are a nominal 4 ohm load and I suspect that the impedance curve is pretty flat and avoids steep and challenging phase angles.

I agree with @searchingforthesound, Tekton is a solid value/sounding speaker. It is not junk nor in my opinion is it a world beater. At their cost point they are very competent and competitive. My friend subsequently replaced his Double Impacts with Omega Audio speakers (Ironically a single driver speaker) which he feels sound better. But my point is the multi-driver Tekton was not a hindrance for low power tube amplifiers. Horses for courses.
Charles

Tekton are extremely easy to drive and easily outperform speakers costing multiples more.

The market apparently disagrees on the price element. Tektons are certainly no best kept secret and have been very actively discussed, advertised and reviewed over the years. If the speakers were valued by the market at "multiples more" then that's where Eric would price them.  The market is the final arbiter in terms of setting price.  It's quite obvious they are fairly priced where they are and probably do punch a bit above their weight...but this talk of "multiples" is obviously nonsense that the entire market and even the owner of Tekton doesn't believe or they would be priced as such.  Eric knows full well the answer to the question of how many Moabs he would sell if he changed the price to $30K tomorrow.

Indeed. Ignore the haters. We had several different amps here driving my Moabs- 20wpc Raven Blackhawk, 50wpc Melody integrated, 37wpc Bel Canto SET amp. The sound with all of them was impressive, with the Bel Canto SET being awesome in terms of dynamics, impact and slam. Just insane, especially considering that with the SET amp it was just the Moabs we had no way of driving the subs when using that amp.  

Then I heard Tekton Pendragon XL driven by the same 37w Bel Canto SET amp, huge presence and volume, incredible bass! Tekton are extremely easy to drive and easily outperform speakers costing multiples more. 

Tektons are solid for tubes.  I own,.  Really there is no more efficient speakers out there then Klipsch as well.  Heritage line , Horns. Cornwalls, Fortes if you have the right room, Hersey .  They match wonderfully with tubes.   You have to like the sound of horns but the match with tubes is amazing.  Tekton will work hate to say it as everyone jumps on Miller but the product is solid and fraction of the cost of so called high end speakers.

Cost to build isnt anything near what these folks charge for gear its insane.   

25wpc? I have had the neighbors complain about the loud music while I was using a 1.5 wpc 45 triode.

It’s not simply a case of choosing a speaker with a high efficiency rating. You need to choose a speaker with a very benign impedance curve. IOW, don’t buy anything with multiple drivers. The more drivers, the less appropriate the speaker is for tube amplification.

Yes yes, I know the forum Einstein has speakers with dozens of drivers which he cannot stop crowing about. But reality is he is not Einstein but a bad a rendition of Helen Keller.


Go for either single driver speaker, or if that is too radical for you, an efficient two way floor stander.

“ Funny, to me Tekton sound like real music, and it is other speakers that sound like a hi-fi.“

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdJ8x6lyrfo

Funny, to me Tekton sound like real music, and it is other speakers that sound like a hi-fi.

AND....Another + on  Audio Note speakers....they sound like music to me...what a concept!!

I would suggest Spatial Audio labs X5 speakers. Because of their built in 250 watt 12" subwoofers (which are adjustable) they are 97db efficient and can be run with as few as 8-10 watts. Your amp is only driving the mid and the tweeter on the X5s. Best speakers I have heard or owned.

Some great recommendations here, but I have a pair of ProAc Tablette 10's that sound great in a bedroom system with a similar tube set up as yours. They love tubes and at 10 ohms will not be hard to drive. They are sealed, so they are not finicky about placement. I actually like them better (in that set up) than the Harbeth P3ESR's I tried first. This is a small room scenario and probably won't  work as well in a larger room.

@twoleftears "Given the OP’s parameters, Audio Note are the obvious recommendation."

Yep. I’ve heard the AN/E models (94-98db) sensitivity @ 6ohms paired with various 10w AudioNote and 20w+ Quicksilver amps. Sounded nice.

Given the OP's parameters, Audio Note are the obvious recommendation.

@charles

A Quicksilver Integrated tube amplifier, rated 20 watts, does fine driving Focal Aria 906's, rated at 89.5 dB sensitivity. I listen at moderate volume, and the volume control stays around 10:30 o'clock.

Agreed. I heard that integrated driving Dynaudio Evoke 10 (84 db) and 20 (86 db) pretty cleanly -- up to a certain volume (say, 80 db for the 20's. And it sounded great.

I have not heard the specific model of ProAc speaker you are looking at, but, I've heard several other models, including stand-mounted speakers with the ribbon tweeter.  I really like the ProAc ribbon tweeter speakers I've heard.  This is one of the rare brands that successfully pull off the integration of a ribbon tweeter with conventional dynamic drivers--there does not seem to be an obvious difference in the character of the sound above and below the crossover point.

Because the K-1 has a dedicated stand, to me, it is really not that much different from a smaller floor-standing speaker, so I don't know why you have ruled out floor-standing speakers.  But, I will note that several years ago, I heard a stand-mounted ProAc (I believe it was the D2R) and another ProAc speaker with what looked like the same drivers in a floor-standing configuration; the stand-mounted speaker being cheaper in price.  I liked the stand-mounted speaker more, and the dealer noted that, when you added in the price of a good stand, the two models were comparably priced.  

Wher/how will you be placing the speakers? Room size?

Thanks for the recommendations. The budget is 10k, and they cannot be floorstanders. The Audio Note sounds interesting, but I can’t accommodate the size of the DeVores. I know I can’t drive the Wilson Tunetot, my first choice and I also want to listen to the ProAc K1

I very much like the sound of the deVore 0/93 and 0/96 speakers. They will make you fall in love with your tube amplifier....bringing our that wonderful midrange with very satisfying bass. 

Wolf von Langa SON would be a remarkable choice. Here's a review at HFA: https://www.hifi-advice.com/blog/review/loudspeaker-reviews/loudspeakers-passive-reviews/wolf-von-la...

Heads up that I offer WVL products in the US.

+1 for corner horns.  If you got corners they bring the heat

My vote would be for Klipschorns. 

@larryi2  In the day, Magnepans were marketed with either a D-76 or D-76A when it came out, or bi-amped with D-51's and D-76 amps.  

Yes, the more power the better with Maggies.  I realize there are many lower-power tube amps and no, Maggies do NOT perform at their best at higher volume with ANY lower-powered amp.

If I misunderstood the OP's post, I am sorry. So, for clarification, IF you want to pair good tube amps with Maggies, be sure you have the most power you can afford.

Cheers!

If you are a fan of the Harbeth P3, I think you will like the Falcon version of the LS3/5A.  I have heard it, the original BBC 15 ohm Rogers LS3/5A, the P3 and the ProAc Tablette in the same system.  I like all of these speakers, but, I slightly prefer the sound of the old Rogers and the Falcon (warmer and better midrange than the other two).  I know both are quite inefficient, but, they are an easy 15 ohm load and I heard them with low-powered amps; in fact, in one comparison session, the Synthesis Roma 96 amp was used and it is rated at 25 watts/channel.  If a small monitor is in your plans, the Falcon is something to consider.  

Another reasonably priced, very efficient speaker to consider is the Rethm Bhaava.  This speaker has a built in powered woofer, so your amp will only be required to driver the very efficient main driver.  This is a quite lively sounding system that is a nice change from the sound of the Harbeth 40.1s.  

I'll toss Monitor Audio into the mix. 

The question is what "will get the job done" even means.  Yes, it will make sound but it was so spectacularly uninformed and shows a real lack of experience witnessing amp/speaker synergies that I just bit my tongue at the time he posted that comment.  

There is enough wiggle room in Russ69's comment that it is not unreasonable.  First, "play loud" is not defined, and it IS the primary factor in whether or not a modestly powered amp will work with a given speaker.  The other bit of hedging is "just about any" which means there are indeed some speakers excluded.

I listen at modest levels.  All three of the amps I own are adequate, in terms of power output, and the highest rated output is the parallel single-ended amp rated at a whopping 6.5 watts/channel.  I have heard this amp used on much less efficient speakers than I own (my speakers are around 99 db/w efficient), so I know it has plenty of power for my purposes. 

Even at less than quiet listening levels, and even with low efficiency speakers,  peaks that would challenge a 25 watt amp represent only a small fraction of time.  Whether or not the compression or distortion at these peaks are so unacceptable that the amp is disqualified is a personal matter.  I would live with occasional problems at extreme peaks if I otherwise liked the sound, others might not. 

A 25 watt tube amp, particularly one with a higher output impedance, might not be the best choice for listening at even modest levels with some speakers, so there might be an increased probability of incompatibility.  But, matching an amp to a speaker involves so much more than having adequate output, decent damping factor (low enough output impedance), etc.  There is no way to really know until the combination is actually tried.  The Original Poster mentions having Harbeth 40.1s, which, from hearing it with around six or so different amps, I think it is a challenging speaker.  But, interestingly, it happened to sound best, to me, with two amps that had lower output than 25 watts, while the 100 and 200 watt amps did not sound as good.  Yes, both of the lower powered amps compressed a little at high volume peaks, but, for the vast majority of the time, they sounded terrific.  

Russ69,, said - - " Unless you play loud a 25 watt tube amp will get the job done with just about any loudspeaker. "What an absolute load of RUBBISH! You are so SO far off the mark here that I'm amazed that you haven't been flamed over that dumb comment! Ridiculous!