Speakers for triode tube amps
It is interesting that Magnepan is mentioned here, because it represents what is supposedly one of the least compatible speaker model for low-powered tube amps. Maggies supposedly demand high-power high-current amps. I've heard Maggies (cannot recall the model) with a tube amp, which was probably a 40-watter, and the combination sounded quite good in a smallish room. The time I heard an obviously incompatible Maggie setup involved a friend hooking up a single-ended 45 amp (1.5 watts/channel) to 3.5 Maggies just for laughs--it sounded quite good at lower volume, but the sound fell apart at volume levels approaching a normal listening level. |
I have a customer who is running Tekton's. They can be driven and sound good with a 20w SET. His space was a bit too big though. They are not as efficient as you might think so I would not plan on sitting more than 8-10 feet from them and hopefully the room is not too big. Zu is a but more efficient, are a bit smaller than Tekton and sound very, very good. I have had some in on trade and ran them with an 845 based SET and they were INCREDIBLE. Same customer also has a pair of Zus and they are a bit more efficient and just incredible. They would be at the top of my list. How big is your room? My speakers have a min impedance of 7.3 ohms are are extremely tube friendly but they are pretty inefficient. I run them with 45w at shows which is more than enough in a 13 x 20 room but... None of these are horn loaded. I would tell you that Avantgarde Zeros XDs are incredible but they are horns. They don't sound shouty like horns but it is a big, wide speaker which I am sure rules them out though they sound nothing like Klipsch or JBL. |
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There is enough wiggle room in Russ69's comment that it is not unreasonable. First, "play loud" is not defined, and it IS the primary factor in whether or not a modestly powered amp will work with a given speaker. The other bit of hedging is "just about any" which means there are indeed some speakers excluded. I listen at modest levels. All three of the amps I own are adequate, in terms of power output, and the highest rated output is the parallel single-ended amp rated at a whopping 6.5 watts/channel. I have heard this amp used on much less efficient speakers than I own (my speakers are around 99 db/w efficient), so I know it has plenty of power for my purposes. Even at less than quiet listening levels, and even with low efficiency speakers, peaks that would challenge a 25 watt amp represent only a small fraction of time. Whether or not the compression or distortion at these peaks are so unacceptable that the amp is disqualified is a personal matter. I would live with occasional problems at extreme peaks if I otherwise liked the sound, others might not. A 25 watt tube amp, particularly one with a higher output impedance, might not be the best choice for listening at even modest levels with some speakers, so there might be an increased probability of incompatibility. But, matching an amp to a speaker involves so much more than having adequate output, decent damping factor (low enough output impedance), etc. There is no way to really know until the combination is actually tried. The Original Poster mentions having Harbeth 40.1s, which, from hearing it with around six or so different amps, I think it is a challenging speaker. But, interestingly, it happened to sound best, to me, with two amps that had lower output than 25 watts, while the 100 and 200 watt amps did not sound as good. Yes, both of the lower powered amps compressed a little at high volume peaks, but, for the vast majority of the time, they sounded terrific. |
If you are a fan of the Harbeth P3, I think you will like the Falcon version of the LS3/5A. I have heard it, the original BBC 15 ohm Rogers LS3/5A, the P3 and the ProAc Tablette in the same system. I like all of these speakers, but, I slightly prefer the sound of the old Rogers and the Falcon (warmer and better midrange than the other two). I know both are quite inefficient, but, they are an easy 15 ohm load and I heard them with low-powered amps; in fact, in one comparison session, the Synthesis Roma 96 amp was used and it is rated at 25 watts/channel. If a small monitor is in your plans, the Falcon is something to consider. Another reasonably priced, very efficient speaker to consider is the Rethm Bhaava. This speaker has a built in powered woofer, so your amp will only be required to driver the very efficient main driver. This is a quite lively sounding system that is a nice change from the sound of the Harbeth 40.1s. |
@larryi2 In the day, Magnepans were marketed with either a D-76 or D-76A when it came out, or bi-amped with D-51's and D-76 amps. Yes, the more power the better with Maggies. I realize there are many lower-power tube amps and no, Maggies do NOT perform at their best at higher volume with ANY lower-powered amp. If I misunderstood the OP's post, I am sorry. So, for clarification, IF you want to pair good tube amps with Maggies, be sure you have the most power you can afford. Cheers! |
Wolf von Langa SON would be a remarkable choice. Here's a review at HFA: https://www.hifi-advice.com/blog/review/loudspeaker-reviews/loudspeakers-passive-reviews/wolf-von-la... Heads up that I offer WVL products in the US. |
I have not heard the specific model of ProAc speaker you are looking at, but, I've heard several other models, including stand-mounted speakers with the ribbon tweeter. I really like the ProAc ribbon tweeter speakers I've heard. This is one of the rare brands that successfully pull off the integration of a ribbon tweeter with conventional dynamic drivers--there does not seem to be an obvious difference in the character of the sound above and below the crossover point. Because the K-1 has a dedicated stand, to me, it is really not that much different from a smaller floor-standing speaker, so I don't know why you have ruled out floor-standing speakers. But, I will note that several years ago, I heard a stand-mounted ProAc (I believe it was the D2R) and another ProAc speaker with what looked like the same drivers in a floor-standing configuration; the stand-mounted speaker being cheaper in price. I liked the stand-mounted speaker more, and the dealer noted that, when you added in the price of a good stand, the two models were comparably priced. |
@charles A Quicksilver Integrated tube amplifier, rated 20 watts, does fine driving Focal Aria 906's, rated at 89.5 dB sensitivity. I listen at moderate volume, and the volume control stays around 10:30 o'clock. Agreed. I heard that integrated driving Dynaudio Evoke 10 (84 db) and 20 (86 db) pretty cleanly -- up to a certain volume (say, 80 db for the 20's. And it sounded great. |
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Some great recommendations here, but I have a pair of ProAc Tablette 10's that sound great in a bedroom system with a similar tube set up as yours. They love tubes and at 10 ohms will not be hard to drive. They are sealed, so they are not finicky about placement. I actually like them better (in that set up) than the Harbeth P3ESR's I tried first. This is a small room scenario and probably won't work as well in a larger room. |
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“ Funny, to me Tekton sound like real music, and it is other speakers that sound like a hi-fi.“ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdJ8x6lyrfo |
25wpc? I have had the neighbors complain about the loud music while I was using a 1.5 wpc 45 triode. It’s not simply a case of choosing a speaker with a high efficiency rating. You need to choose a speaker with a very benign impedance curve. IOW, don’t buy anything with multiple drivers. The more drivers, the less appropriate the speaker is for tube amplification. Yes yes, I know the forum Einstein has speakers with dozens of drivers which he cannot stop crowing about. But reality is he is not Einstein but a bad a rendition of Helen Keller. Go for either single driver speaker, or if that is too radical for you, an efficient two way floor stander. |
Tektons are solid for tubes. I own,. Really there is no more efficient speakers out there then Klipsch as well. Heritage line , Horns. Cornwalls, Fortes if you have the right room, Hersey . They match wonderfully with tubes. You have to like the sound of horns but the match with tubes is amazing. Tekton will work hate to say it as everyone jumps on Miller but the product is solid and fraction of the cost of so called high end speakers. Cost to build isnt anything near what these folks charge for gear its insane. |
Indeed. Ignore the haters. We had several different amps here driving my Moabs- 20wpc Raven Blackhawk, 50wpc Melody integrated, 37wpc Bel Canto SET amp. The sound with all of them was impressive, with the Bel Canto SET being awesome in terms of dynamics, impact and slam. Just insane, especially considering that with the SET amp it was just the Moabs we had no way of driving the subs when using that amp. Then I heard Tekton Pendragon XL driven by the same 37w Bel Canto SET amp, huge presence and volume, incredible bass! Tekton are extremely easy to drive and easily outperform speakers costing multiples more. |
Tekton are extremely easy to drive and easily outperform speakers costing multiples more. The market apparently disagrees on the price element. Tektons are certainly no best kept secret and have been very actively discussed, advertised and reviewed over the years. If the speakers were valued by the market at "multiples more" then that's where Eric would price them. The market is the final arbiter in terms of setting price. It's quite obvious they are fairly priced where they are and probably do punch a bit above their weight...but this talk of "multiples" is obviously nonsense that the entire market and even the owner of Tekton doesn't believe or they would be priced as such. Eric knows full well the answer to the question of how many Moabs he would sell if he changed the price to $30K tomorrow. |
@pauly, "It’s not simply a case of choosing a speaker with a high efficiency rating. You need to choose a speaker with a very benign impedance curve. IOW, don’t buy anything with multiple drivers. The more drivers, the less appropriate the speaker is for tube amplification." In general that advice has some merit but not as a blanket statement. I was able to drive a friend’s Tekton Double Impact quite effortlessly with my 8 watt SET amplifier. The speakers are a nominal 4 ohm load and I suspect that the impedance curve is pretty flat and avoids steep and challenging phase angles. I agree with @searchingforthesound, Tekton is a solid value/sounding speaker. It is not junk nor in my opinion is it a world beater. At their cost point they are very competent and competitive. My friend subsequently replaced his Double Impacts with Omega Audio speakers (Ironically a single driver speaker) which he feels sound better. But my point is the multi-driver Tekton was not a hindrance for low power tube amplifiers. Horses for courses. Charles |
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don’t buy anything with multiple drivers. The more drivers, the less appropriate the speaker is for tube amplification."
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.google.com/search?q=VMPS+elixir+speakers&sxsrf=AOaemvJuCjbUJ0bssX2o1Gth0or7O1Nxqw:16... <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Really? I ran my RMx Elixirs (under 9 pairs left on earth) 93 or 5% efficient speakers. At just 8 watts VERY close to this set up.. Just a better analog set up for me. I've seen this set up several times CES was my first to see TA newest gear.. Been a while.. I borrowed the SET amps from a buddy, I almost pulled the trigger and ordered a pair.. I held out and was over joyed when I found and modded a Cary V12r just for planar work.. The manufacture use to say EL34s are made for HIS speakers.. He was 100% right.. I've never heard anything like it.. Multi driver, WEIRD configuration, mind-boggling results.. Otari MTR-12 and a Minahan TT. (12 to 15 built) Weird STUFF, weird people... Just like me... Multi drivers, nothing better.. Regards |
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If you are looking at using a triode tube amp, you might want to read this article- it will help you sort out what you are looking for:http://www.atma-sphere.com/en/resources-paradigms-in-amplifier-design.html FWIW most of the speakers mentioned on this thread are of the Power Paradigm persuasion. Apparently the Spatial is an excellent recommendation- its well priced and easy with triode amps. |
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I had a pair of these, with the phase plug upgrade and they were great sounding. Steve just has a way with making things sound great. Simple design, but very effective. https://www.decware.com/newsite/DM945.html |
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I have a pair of P3esrXDs running from my Octave V70SE and very much enjoy them. I’ve also hooked them up to my PrimaLuna EVO 400 integrated and love the warm sound they produce when the 400 is in triode. I am aware that some don’t like the sound of Harbeths with tube amplifiers, but if you do, I’d say you will probably like the P3s. |
The budget is 10k, and they cannot be floorstanders.@samuelg Well that limits things. At this point my recommendation would be a monitor sized speaker like the ZU Omen Bookshelf, and get yourself a set of Swarm subs to handle the bass. This will keep in in budget and yet you'll have full bandwidth. The Swarms are easy to integrate into the rest of the system and can prevent standing waves from messing with the room so you get proper bass at the listening chair. The Omens are easy to drive with most triode amps (we have a lot of customers with ZU products) and the size will work. The only bugaboo is ZU is sold out of them, but that could easily change soon. |
Another recommendation to look into Audio Note. I have an old pair of AN-E/Ls (92 dB efficiency). I am driving them with a 2A3 SET amp, 3.5 watts, and they will play way louder than I can tolerate, without distortion, in my modest 11.5” x 11” room. The only way to know for sure is to try them, but it’s hard to imagine your amp won't be very happy driving ANs. They are just wonderful, musically engaging speakers, IME. |
Merlin Music TSM are a smaller stand- mounted speaker that work very well with modestly powered tube amps. Read the reviews. There are a few threads here on Audiogon discussing amp options. I’ve driven mine with higher powered amps like the Thor Audio TPA-60 EL34 based monoblocks and also a lower powered (16w /channel) KT88. I play loud in a medium sized room (90 plus db at the listening position not uncommon, and 16x17x9 room) These are excellent speakers if you like an honest presentation with minimal boxy colorations. |
