Speaker upgrade for classical music

Scansonic new editions or marten speakers 

Long thread. I'm going to depart from everything said here and say that the one thing that you said you don't have is actually the thing you should have. If you are classical musician and really want the sound of a symphony you need to turn to vinyl. No digital or CD signal will ever give you that experience that you seek no matter how much you spend on equipment. Vinyl pressings from the '50s '60s and early '70s were far better than anything made today except for rare exceptions. The fabulous thing is that nobody wants vinyl classical and it can be had at ridiculous prices all the time.

You need to look into this seriously and, when you do, look at classical recordings on London vinyl which is actually English Decca made for the US market, EMI, Angel (only those pressed in England, Phillips pressed in Holland, and RCA Living Stereo Red Seal with Nipper (the RCA dog) in the shade. You will spend a fortune trying to accomplish this with digital media. There will be people who will disagree vehemently with this statement. If you love and know symphonic sound vinyl and tape are only way to get it. 

There are exceptional CDs and digital streams available of truly great performances so there is no question that there is great music in digital format but if you're really looking for the true experience you will save yourself a lot of time and money by getting a good turntable, an exceptional cartridge and a world-class stylus. Also you will need a good phono stage. 

Follow some of the value-oriented advice that you've gotten here on speakers so that you don't have to spend all your money on them and now have enough to pursue vinyl and start building an incredible collection for next to nothing.

For string chamber music, Hartbeth Compact 7ES3 would be pretty good. Recently I bought Jungson power/pre amp, and they sound pretty good for the price. You can try their integrated amp Jungson JA-88D.

Question about monitors like the Graham Audio LS5/8 vs Ls9/f floor standing speakers. What are the pros and cons of the monitor?  Do I need to add a separate subwoofer?  For classical music maybe not?  But for jazz maybe yes?  

Thanks again Duke. When I get the itch to change the system, I'll keep this discussion in mind.

Hiphiphan wrote: "I have the Raidho D3.1 (I purchased them used; I’m not wealthy). Is the SuperStand, which contains the back-firing driver, compatible with a floor-standing speaker such as this?"

Duke replies: Very nice speakers!!

I have not tried adding extra rear-firing energy to a wide-pattern speaker like your Raidho’s. So at this point I’d have to say, I don’t know yet. I can think of arguments both ways, but such arguments pale into insignificance compared with the certainty of actually trying it. I hope to find out some day.

(The Sonus Faber Aida, their current top-of-the-line model, uses what looks like a rear-firing mini-monitor. The Sonus Faber loudspeaker [a previous top model introduced in 2009] also used a rear-firing mini-monitor. So it MIGHT work well with your Raidho, but I’m not sure... to a certain extent it depends on the "voicing" of the Raidho.)

Hiphiphan: "And how does The Swarm Subwoofer system fit in (or is it not compatible with the SuperStand)?"

Each SuperStand incorporates a passive subwoofer, in the top half of the "notch", so a pair of them are essentially one-half of a Swarm.

Duke

Actually, I had a break in my Tannoy journey after a bad divorce left me without them. After that, I'd been using some B&W's for mains, and bought some KEF's for center and surrounds at a very good price.

After that came a nice pair of Dynaudio's, but after a few years, the itch to get back to Tannoys started to get to me, so when my new Tannoys came on line, I still had my KEF center and surrounds. They have now been upgraded with a new KEF center, and some very good Pioneer Andrew Jones designed speakers for surrounds. Both are a fine upgrade, and they have added to my enjoyment of multi-channel music.

As I mentioned before, both the Tannoy and KEF are Dual Concentric (tweeter in the center of the woofer). I wish I could have you listen to my system. I live in the Pacific Nor'west in Puget Sound on Whidbey Island. That's a long way from Maine, but maybe you'll come this way for one reason or another some day. You'd be welcomed.

Regards,
Dan 

Duke, thank you for the replies. Much food for thought. I have the Raidho D3.1 (I purchased them used; I'm not wealthy). Is the SuperStand, which contains the back-firing driver, compatible with a floor-standing speaker such as this? And how does The Swarm Subwoofer system fit in (or is it not compatible with the SuperStand)?

Hiphiphan wrote: "After reading your second post, I realize you’re suggesting the use of additional drivers that are pointed at the wall in FRONT of the listener. This seems like it would be effective for enhancing the illusion of venue cues that came from the front of the venue. But it’s hard to imagine that this creates the feeling of "envelopment," since the reflections are coming from in front of the listener."

Duke responds: My speakers are designed to be used with a lot of toe-in, like about 45 degrees, such that their axes criss-cross in front of the listener. This correspondingly "toes out" the up-and-back firing drivers, so their energy reflects off front wall and/or side wall, and ceiling, before reaching the listening area. And that energy continues to reflect around the room so it arrives from multiple directions, assuming the room isn’t overdamped, though the strongest reflections are those from the front half of the room. You can see an example in the first photo at this link. The stands have an up-and-back firing coaxial driver:

https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2019/06/17/new-gear-from-audiokinesis-and-resonessence-labs-t-h-e-sho...

Hiphiphan: "Two other quick questions if you’ll indulge me:
1. What issues arise from simply using two sets of speakers (one in front, one behind), both playing the identical signal from a regular, two-channel recording, but with the rear set of speakers positioned further away?"

Duke: As long as the rear speakers aren’t too loud, that stands a good chance of being beneficial. If possible, position and/or orient the rear speakers so that their mids and highs arrive at the listening area at least ten milliseconds behind the output of the front speakers. Sound travels slightly more than one foot per millisecond.

Hiphiphan: "2. What about near-field listening? If the speakers are very close to the listening position, almost creating a headphone effect, it seems like might work to create something close to envelopment."

Duke: In my experience nearfield listening can give excellent clarity and imaging, but you still need the reflections delivered from all around to produce envelopment.

The worst possible direction for reflections to come from is the exact same direction as the first-arrival sound. In that situation, they tend to be interpreted by the ears as coloration. This has been established by controlled blind listening tests. So the worst direction for the ambience cues on the recording to arrive from is directly from the speakers.  In a nearfield setup the idea is to be close enough to the speakers that they are much louder than the in-room reflections, which does not promote envelopment.  When the ambience cues on the recording are delivered from many different directions by the in-room reflections, that’s when they have the best chance of conveying envelopment. In fact multichannel music done right uses the surround speakers to ensure the delivery of the recording’s ambience information from many different directions.

I have experimented with optimizing the arrival direction of the additional reflections, and with optimizing their arrival time.  I found (to my surprise) that the arrival time matters more.  

Duke

Duke, thanks for the reply. When I read your first post in this thread, I got the impression you were suggesting emphasizing room reflections from the wall behind the listener. But after reading your second post, I realize you’re suggesting the use of additional drivers that are pointed at the wall in FRONT of the listener. This seems like it would be effective for enhancing the illusion of venue cues that came from the front of the venue. But it’s hard to imagine that this creates the feeling of "envelopment," since the reflections are coming from in front of the listener.
Two other quick questions if you’ll indulge me:
1. What issues arise from simply using two sets of speakers (one in front, one behind), both playing the identical signal from a regular, two-channel recording, but with the rear set of speakers positioned further away? 
2. What about near-field listening? If the speakers are very close to the listening position, almost creating a headphone effect, it seems like might work to create something close to envelopment. 

Santa Fe Gestalt HiFi, Mike Phalan owner. One review of the lines he carries tells you
he has an ear for great sound. Furthermore he strikes me a fellow that cares about you
over your $. QLN may work. Shop used too. Now problem may be in finding product in your price range at his shop.
If I were you I would be spending a lot of time there listening and learning. If you must
have something tomorrow, good luck. 

These are a stone-cold bargain.
https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lisa20ah-graham-audio-ls5-8-full-range

About an hour and half away from you in Taos is a audio store, Sound Science, that sells Tannoy, Harbeth, Kef, and a few other good brands. Know nothing about them, but it might be worthwhile to give them a call.

a few comments on recent posts below

sonus fabers have been a quintessential speaker brand for classical music reproduction for many many years

focals would do well too

harbeths can have excellent detail, the overall presentation is warmer though... some folks mistake this for lack of detail

proacs have more ’overt detail’ as the mid bass is dialed back compared to harbeth’s voicing

british speakers from the bbc lineage or close relation thereof -- spendor, rogers, harbeth, kef etc etc -- are indeed very good at classical music as that was mostly what was being broadcast when the whole movement came to be - their lossy cabinets provide wonderful sympathetic resonances that mimic that of many acoustic instruments in symphonies and orchestras

open baffle/dipole/omni directional radiator speakers are very very good for classical as they aid in producing a large airy image and a ’wave of sound’

as always, in ANY of the above, room acoustics and system matching are very important to achieve desired results

I personally do not think of Marantz and audiophile quality.  I use their largest receiver in our family room hooked up to a Definitive Technology surround speakers and a much better system in the living room.  Perhaps you should stretch your budget and upgrade your front end at the same time.  Not sure what to recommend for speakers.  I added a pair of REL S2 SHO subwoofers to my system and they filled in the lower end seamlessly.  Their high level connection technology allows them to act more like woofers.

Having read the entire thread, I will comment only on speakers I’ve heard. Agree on Harbeth, but also agree with comment that they are a bit too smooth on the highs, lacking some detail. Own Totem and they are more like the instrument is in the room - like a live performance. I find upper tier B&W speakers harsh and tiring in the treble, but some see it as precision. I prefer the KEF products at comparable price points. To me they sound more natural. A brand no one has mentioned is Aerial Acoustics, based outside Boston. I’ve owned their Model 8B, no longer made, for a couple of decades. The newer Model 7B is also excellent and full range, but Aerial speakers need power. 
I concur with the idea of an amp upgrade. And would encourage you to audition before buying, especially with an 8k budget. But you could spend a good deal less and do fine with KEF or Totem. Also, I agree with view that tone and voicing of instruments is more important than imaging. And it is very difficult to mimic the sound of a venue because of your room’s unique acoustics. Listen and choose. Happy shopping. 

@audiokinesis makes a good case for forward and backward firing speakers. I note that panel speakers, like Magnepans and ESL's, do that naturally. Without phase control of course.

I like that sound very much. A good complement is record or book shelving behind the speakers to diffuse the sound, creating a wonderful ambience. 

Sonus Faber

If you are content to sit in a rather narrow sweet spot, then consider highly directional (focused) speakers combined with phase management software to widen the soundstage and separate the instruments. The goal is to minimize room effects and maximize fidelity to the original recording, while bringing out details and also creating the illusion of a wide, holographic soundstage.

Speakers (more to less expensive, all these are hybrid electrostatic except the KEFs):
Sanders 10e
JansZen Valentina (floorstanding) A8
JansZen Valentina (floorstanding)  P8
JansZen Carmelita (stand mounted), active or passive
Martin Logan (various models)
KEF LS50

Software (more to less expensive):
BAACH4Mac audiophile version
BACCH4Mac intro edition
HAF

The JansZen speakers and the Sanders are ordered direct from the companies. JansZen offers a 30 day in-home trial (I think Sanders does too). But don't do this unless you're pretty sure they seem right for you (since re-boxing and returning speakers would be rather inconvenient).

For your budget, I'd suggest the JansZen Carmelita with the BACCH4Mac intro edition (then later upgrade to the audiophile edition).  The Carmelitas are not only less expensive than the Valentinas, but also would be easier to box up and return than the larger floor-standers if you are not satisfied. If these interest you, then maybe talk to David Janszen about the Carmelitas + subwoofers versus the Valentinas without.  My thinking is that the main advantage of the Valentinas is deeper bass extension, but you can get that from the subs (which also may make main speaker placement a little more flexible). I'm not sure, though, if JansZen active models are designed to integrate with subwoofers (or software like BACCH). If not, then go for a passive version with your existing gear. JansZen is the Ohio distributor for BACCH software, so they should be very familiar with how it interoperates with their loudspeakers.

Curious why you think speakers for classical differ from speakers for other genres... there’s something you are looking for that you have not said.
Anyway, for $8k you ought to be able to get some great speakers. Before i suggest anything, i’ll mention that we all have different likes and dislikes, and I think simply throwing ideas at you is a fool’s errand.
In speakers, here is a huge trade off between achieving the bottom octave+ and both cost and size. You can get superb smaller speakers at the same price as good larger ones, but missing the lowest register. You will probably care for full orchestral music. one possible solution is satellites and a subwoofer - but subwoofer placement matters if you want actual, articulated, in-phase bass.
In full-range speakers have you heard Vandersteen 2s, 3s and Quattros? great performance for the price, and the baffle designs deliver good space and imaging.
How about Elacs? Spectacular reviews at the price, and a buddy just put them in their smallish NYC apartment with excellent results, The feedback he’s given me on some masterings tells the story - he can hear and the speakers can reveal. I don know what they sell int he higher price points - these were about $1k
I hate to say it but i dont know if Spica still exists. If they do their are a wonderful speaker --- with the caveat that it demands a subwoofer. Oh, and they are a cheap, small speak that is very demanding on amp quality and performance - i doubt yours is up to the task.
I think you need to go listen.

G

p: maggies are a good suggestion. And overall, don't expect speakers to make the magic without the rest of the stuff being up to snuff. Weak links in chains and all that

Magneplanar. Possibly in biamplification, valve high, SS bass.

Not all Tannoys are made in China! Only the cheaply priced ones....the legacy, prestige, and higher ups are all still made in the UK at the coatsbridge factory in Scotland. They Also sound great with classical music, in fact, All music. I am never going back to another speaker, I'm hooked on that Tannoy sound. Non-fatiguing beautiful sound....

I ’ve been playing with a Quad S5 recently , there is a Quad 4 (5 has one more) playing on You Tube . The true ribbon tweeter is something and speaker is easy to set up.

NOT trying to say anything about it to anyone but with all the talent on
audiogon on this post I would really be grateful if anyone would say what they think . Of course You Tube is not great.
https://youtu.be/zgq2qHzdm58?t=4   .Clearer and sweeter in my room.

Some more recommendations. May be good to have a few options. 

Audio Solutions Figaro M speakers. Sounded really great at a show and has great reviews. 

http://hifiknights.com/reviews/speakers/audiosolutions-figaro-m-loudspeakers/

Could combine with a $4k amp to keep your budget. Like the Hegel H190.

Or go with Dutch & Dutch 8 which are active speakers with dacs built-in. 

LS 3/5A (all around).

Hiphiphan wrote: "Audiokinesis/Duke: I for one would love to read more about what you’re describing. I have two questions in particular:

1) You mentioned that envelopment can be achieved through a multi-channel system. Do you mean basically playing a normal, two-channel recording through two sets of speakers, one in front of you and one behind, with both sets playing the exact same thing? Or do you mean using special recordings that were intended to be used specifically with multi-channel systems (in which what the front set of speakers plays is not identical to the rear set)."

Duke replies: I mean the latter: Special multi-channel recordings with the reverberation (ambience cues) delivered through dedicated surround speakers. Not that this is necessarily the only way a multichannel system can deliver envelopment, but it’s what I had in mind.

Hiphiphan again: "2) The other way to achieve envelopment you describe is as follows: "By minimizing the energy in the early reflections, and having plenty of spectrally-correct energy in late-arriving reflections, and using diffusion instead of absorption..., we can use these later-arriving reflections to effectively present the venue cues on the recording. And when the venue cues on the recording dominate over the playback room’s inherent small-room signature,...we have envelopment." I’m confused by this. If we are deliberately emphasizing later-arriving reflections created by OUR OWN ROOM, how is this the same as "the venue cues on the recording dominate over the playback room’s...signature"? By definition, if we’re trying to make certain room reflections dominant, then we’re not making the reflections captured on the recording dominant."

Duke: EXCELLENT QUESTION!!

Basically I’m advocating chopping the radiation pattern of a normal speaker into two pieces, aiming one piece at the listening area, and aiming the other piece in a different direction such that it arrives after some time delay, because this works WITH rather than AGAINST the playback room and the ear/brain system.

The proper role of the in-room reflections is to effectively deliver the venue cues on the recording, whether they be real or engineered or both (this isn’t their ONLY role - more on that later). However they also inevitably contain “small room” cues inherent to the playback room. The ear/brain system will accept (or synthesize) whatever sense of acoustic space is most plausible, and USUALLY this is dominated by the playback room’s cues.

The ear gets its information about the size of a room from two main sources: The early reflections, and the decay characteristics. The approach I advocate disrupts the “small room signature” cues that the early in-room reflections would normally convey, and effectively presents the decay cues which are on the recording.

The time delay between the first arrival sound and the “center of gravity” of the reflections tells the ear/brain system about the room size. If we can push that center of gravity back in time, we can disrupt and weaken the playback room’s inherent small-room signature. The approach I advocate does this by a) minimizing early reflections and b) adding MORE reflections which arrive at least 10 milliseconds behind the direct sound.

Now as long as the playback room isn’t overdamped, this additional reverberant energy results in a lot of spectrally-correct reflections, which effectively present the venue cues (and in particular the decay cues) that are on the recording. And part of this "effective" presentation is that the venue cues come from all around. (Directly from the loudspeakers is the WORST possible direction for reflections to come from, which is why overdamped rooms don’t convey envelopment). With a good recording, the venue cues carried by the reflections dominate and we can close our eyes and enjoy the illusion of envelopment. It’s not a perfect illusion of course, but imo it’s a worthwhile improvement to a normal stereo image.

The OTHER role of the in-room reflections, assuming they are spectrally correct, is to enhance timbre, much like the reflections in a good recital hall. Since the path lengths are shorter than in a recital hall we run the risk of degraded clarity if the in-room reflections are too loud, so I give the rear-firing driver array a user-adjustable volume control.

I realize these ideas are unorthodox and somewhat counter-intuitive. In particular it is counter-intuitive to think that by ADDING reflections, we might actually perceive MORE of the recording venue and LESS of the playback room. After hearing an abbreviated version of my schpiel at an audio show, Andrew Quint of The Absolute Sound pulled out a thumb drive and said, “I’d like to challenge that”. Obviously he was skeptical too! We played the piece on his thumb drive and I asked him how we did. He said, “It passed. It’s not a gimmick; it works. I clearly heard the acoustic signature of the Concertgebouw.”

Quoting from Andrew’s version of that incident:

"The recording was a FLAC rip of the CD layer of an RCO Live SACD: Shostakovich—Symphony No. 15; Concertgebouw Orchestra/Bernard Haitink conductor. It’s a live recording from March of 2010 (Haitink made a much earlier recording of the same piece with the London Philharmonic; he was the first person to record all the Shostakovich symphonies.) For a couple of years, this has been my go-to symphonic recording when I have just a short time to get a sense of an unfamiliar system. It’s an excellent performance, something I can listen to repeatedly without going nuts, which is important at a show. In terms of audiophilia, it’s an extremely detailed yet atmospheric representation of an orchestra, with excellent dynamics and fully characterized instrumental colors (bells, solo turns by violin, flute, piccolo, string bass, trumpet, etc.) And—with the right audio gear—it successfully renders the essence of (IMO) one of the greatest 3 or 4 concert halls on earth, the Concertgebouw (thus the orchestra’s name) in Amsterdam. I’ve heard music there, and there’s truly a sense of sound being present in the air around you.

“The multichannel program on the RCO Live SACDs (there are dozens) get this last aspect right; so did the Bienville Suite, nearly to the same degree, despite the presence of only two channels. My concern when Duke told me about the rear-firing drivers was that this would impart some generic, Bose-like spaciousness to the recording, but that wasn’t the case—what I heard was the unique acoustic signature of the Concertgebouw."

What we do has evolved since Andrew wrote that in 2016.

Duke

I say Magnepans. I have owned several, and for symphonic music they have no parallel. ESL’s are more detailed, but you need at least two pairs to do a symphony properly IMO, which is my current system.

Bryston amps work well with either. Not state of the art sound, but very good, and bulletproof, with superb factory support. Bryston owners sleep better. I used them until I went DIY and recommend them highly.

Hi OP, I would suggest that you keep what multi-channel system you have for when you need it. Then start building a really nice stereo system from square one. When you listen to classical, jazz and opera, what you really need is good stereo. As far as I am concerned, I don't need surround sound for those types of music...the performers are in front of me. A carefully assembled system fit for your room will give you the right tone, dynamics and immersive experience. It may take some time, as you have to research, plan and set a budget and the actual purchase and putting together may take months, depending on your resources; it takes patience and much anticipation but you will be rewarded. Just my 2 cents.

Might I suggest that you take a look at several speakers from Shahinian Acoustics as on the used market two would fall within your range. The Obelisk and The Hawk Ensemble.

Richard designed these speakers to be omni directional to recreate large scale classical, choral, orchestra music which they excel at. In fact they do many different genres as I listen to a lot of Jazz and old school rock, classical and have several time tried Opera (with no great success)

I would google them and check reviews. Obelisk come up for sale every so often, Hawks, less so but do as I have been able to move up through the different versions of the Obelisks over the years and currently have them on my second system, the Hawks are on my main.

Worth the look

I am in the 2 system camp as well. 

With A highly efficient speaker you will need very little tube power. I recommend starting over for the 2 Chanel system. Audio Note AN J speakers. You will save $4000. Then spend the rest on a nice Audio Note integrated tube amp such as the Otto or Soro or maybe a Mieshu. All with phono.

You won't be Sorry

The biggest Maggies or MLs you can afford or your room can take, plus maybe a couple of good subs.

Magnepans 1.7i or the 3.7i if your room is big enough for 3.7i’s with a Parasound A21+ will be hard to beat for the money. For a preamp look at the Schitt Freya+. With the 1.7i’s you can probably do it all with some Canare speaker cable in your original budget and be a killer system with your subs.

audiokinesis/Duke:  I for one would love to read more about what you're describing. I have two questions in particular: 
1) You mentioned that envelopment can be achieved through a multi-channel system. Do you mean basically playing a normal, two-channel recording through two sets of speakers, one in front of you and one behind, with both sets playing the exact same thing? Or do you mean using special recordings that were intended to be used specifically with multi-channel systems (in which what the front set of speakers plays is not identical to the rear set)? 
2) The other way to achieve envelopment you describe is as follows: "By minimizing the energy in the early reflections, and having plenty of spectrally-correct energy in late-arriving reflections, and using diffusion instead of absorption..., we can use these later-arriving reflections to effectively present the venue cues on the recording. And when the venue cues on the recording dominate over the playback room’s inherent small-room signature,...we have envelopment." I'm confused by this. If we are deliberately emphasizing later-arriving reflections created by OUR OWN ROOM, how is this the same as "the venue cues on the recording dominate over the playback room’s...signature"? By definition, if we're trying to make certain room reflections dominant, then we're not making the reflections captured on the recording dominant.

Audiogon Sorry for the typo

I can vouch for a grahm audio awesome speaker as far as a bass issue you would go with the LS 5/8 there is a reputable dealer posting one on audio gone less than half off retail
Best of luck

Magnepans or Harbeth. I am a classical cellist and an audio enthusiast since the late '50's. I've owned many speaker systems. The finest loudspeaker ever conceived was the Goodman's AXIOM 80. Unfortunately, they are a memory from the past. I imagine a handful of people around the world still own them. I seriously doubt that any real audio electronics professional has ever designed a system great around these fine drivers. I heard a demo at the Hi-Fi show in Chicago in 1958. The AMPEX suite was demoing their 3 track professional recorder, using 3 speaker system channels built around a quad of Axiom 80's per channel. To this day I remember that demo. The sound was more realistic than any system man has conceived to this day. 

All that being said I feel the closest you will ever come with modern electronics, are the two speakers I mentioned above. They are speakers you can built a system upon and never want for different speakers. Better electronics will bring you closer to audio nirvana. The only thing you might is an REL sub.

At your budget I'd go with KEFs. If you don't need deep bass (looks like you don't need it for classic music) - try to hear KEF reference 1 (standmounts, 3way),  if you want something still detailed and more bassy (for jazz)- KEF R7, R11

Probably obvious, but I live in the Midwest and have always found Gestalt HiFi in Santa Fe more than helpful.  I have even purchased a few items from them.  Great customer service and knowledgable.  And in your state at least

I would recommend a pair of used Vienna Acoustic Liszt speakers.  I have them, listened to probably 15 different speakers before I bought them.  I listen to rock, classical, jazz and roots music.  Mostly classical and jazz.  Some really like the Harbeth speakers but I find them too creamy and recessed in the upper ranges.  Other speakers just saw my ears off in the upper frequencies especially violin.  They will reward you with good electronics.  Subs probably not needed.  I really didn't care for the lower level Vienna speakers, just my two cents on what I hear.

Hard truth is that your amps, DACs, power supply chain matters if you want that realism in your room. For instance, you want a natural sounding “analog-ish” DAC like the holo audio may ($4k+). Focusing on speakers alone is a recipe for disappointment.  Everything matters for the sound.

Call Truewill Mashburn at Lucky Dog HiFi. He is local, really knows
his stuff, and is committed to good outcomes. 

Magnepans 1.7i or the 3.7i if your room is big enough for 3.7i’s with a Parasound A21+ will be hard to beat for the money. For a preamp look at the Schitt Freya+. With the 1.7i’s you can probably do it all with some Canare speaker cable in your original budget and be a killer system with your subs.

Regarding the Tannoys and KEF for center/surround combination: how did you decide that KEF would be a good complement?  Curious, since I’m trying to figure out what to look for to pair main speakers with the surrounds. Thanks!

OMG !!! https://youtu.be/fAONAurSySg?t=2


They are selling Hawks in VIETNAM , never saw any in my two years there.
Speakers are not set up right .

Dan ,being 85 years on this planet I second you on Tannoy .I thought on saying something about it but he is a long way from a dealer and the last time I looked the better ones were a lot of money.Some of the people who left Tannoy when they went Chinese are building them in Scotland under a name that starts with F and getting
great reviews .I was a KEF man fior twenty years , the problem I hear with their drivers cut off without any delay which is not cool with Classical .Could be just me of course , but I hear it with Totem Forests .

Harbeth for sure. Avoid any suggestions for ribbon or unusual tweeters (like Tekton). You’ll want super smooth treble. The M40.2 are the best I’ve heard in this price range, and I play in an orchestra.

I can't believe no one has mentioned Tannoy speakers, but after a large amount of time on this planet (73 years), most of it has been spent listening to Tannoys. I can't recommend them highly enough. They sound (and look), extremely well with just about any music.

I got my first pair in 1971, and I still use them happily today. They work very well in my multi-channel system, where KEFs are used for center and surrounds, they work well, as they are also Dual-Concentric in design.

Try to hear a few Tannoys. I think you will be glad you made the effort.

Best regards, and good luck,
Dan

I hear you literally, as a former classical musician myself I looked long and hard before settling on Bowers & Wilkins speakers up to my current Nautilus 805s.  I just listened to the new Anniversary series stand mount 607s and was AWESTRUCK.  And they're under $1000 a pair plus about 200 for the stands I think. If you've got budget you could look at the 700 or 800 series and/or towers, but honestly I'm not sure they're vastly superior unless you also intend to upgrade your sources at some point.  Good luck

NUJonathan

A playing review from the Totem one step below the
forest from a classical music freak!
https://youtu.be/GyC6OcG5DC4?t=4
The young man speaks the truth and nothing but the truth !

And if they selling the Forest in Italy you can be Sure they are top.
https://youtu.be/MpoIyL5hV_E?t=4


And a fantastic salute to the Canadian speaker industry in general .



https://youtu.be/2vCJ-pO3BlI

Harbeth 40.2
Harbeth 30.1 or 30.2
Maggies with REL subs
Spatial Audio M3

As much as I have enjoyed Magnepans in the past, they have several limitations for the OP.

For one, they are very demanding of amplification. This has been documented ad nauseum so I won’t get into that.

More critically, they inflate the image and are not what I hear in a concert hall. In my dedicated audio room, even set up ideally with room treatments, they were limited in this regard.

My Tekton DI’s recreate a much more precise and realistic recreation of a concert hall. Instrument location, depth, instrument size are all much more accurate. One can debate what accounts for this--wave launch, back wave interference, among others.

Right now I am listening to an old CD, An English Christmas, performed in Westminster Cathedral. Choir, brass, thundering organ. Magnificent! (My DI’s are augmented by a pair of subs)

I have had the pleasure on hearing music in that cathedral, among others. My current system transports me back to that place and brings a smile to my face.

Best wishes on your search.

P.S.--virtuoso violin performances have sounded great on the DI’s.