Speaker Cable Recommendation
I'm wondering if someone could recommend a pair of speaker cables. I have looked at Nordost entry level, but they may be too thin for my system. Looking for cables that may add some "weight" to the following system.
Decware 300b tube amp (8watts), Klipsch Forte IV, Holo May Dac, PS Audio BHK Pre with 12AU7 input tubes. My room is 20X12, not treated, vaulted ceiling, fair amount of glass. Not a great room :) In the $1,000.00 range
Thanks, Mark
The problem with blind cable tests is the subjects know it is a cable test and by definition will believe they should or should not hear a difference. This means very large sample size and very high stats to be conclusive. With a very subtle difference and average population, that is a very high bar to pass. 100 listeners and 60%? Logic says yes, but accepted scientific levels of proof says not even close. Bummer.
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@n0m1n4l Yes I would be as I have never cared for Focals, only their HP's. If old is your thing then be happy. |
Clarity Cables Organic are very full sounding with fine detail. All other cables will sound thin in comparison. They could be bought new for close to the $1000. I tried Silversmith Fideliums among about 10 other speaker cables in my system. I have a very nice pair of VMPS RM40 BCSE speakers. This pair are great speakers and very detailed with excellent bass and dynamics. Bob
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Not what I said. Quite content with my cables I said. Guess reading, comprehension and critical thinking are an issue for you. So go peddle your cables and leave me out of it. Homer and a shill. Your system is worth nothing to me. Is your system compensation for your lack of class and dignity. Or better yet lack of manhood. So tired of your Yaddah, yaddah, yadda So $78 K Canadian so it’s $32k US and depreciation it’s work $14k now. Feel stupid, you should. Oh have another scotch reading your post I think you’re drunk eh. |
Jacobsdad2000, I really don't care whether you read my posts or not and obviously you're very ill informed and stupid if you think that OCC single crystal silver and copper is crop you obviously don't know very much about cables and your system is probably crop as well lol, and I don't care whether you buy neotech or not I could care less but you are very misinformed about cables like I said maybe you should start doing some research and reading or can you even read? and just so you know my system is worth $72,000 and if you would like me to list what it is I'd be happy to and I can even show you a picture if you like, I've been an audiophile for over 40 years so I know what I'm talking about, whether you choose to listen or not I could care so keep buying your silver plated OFC junk wire and paying a lot for it lol, makes no difference to me, unfortunately uninformed people like you make stupid decisions. |
@magnuman Well I am no longer reading your crap. Nor amI buying your crap.Very happy with my cables. Enjoy your rants Homer. |
Jacobsdad2000, I'm not a homer at all I'm just stating a fact, most of these companies use silver plated OFC which is the cheapest junk wire you can get out there, just because it's silver plated so what, just for your information OFC wire has 1500 crystal barriers per foot, that's little fractures in the wire that the signal has to jump across that shears off minute harmonics which screws up the sound, OCC single crystal has zero crystal barriers per foot, maybe you should do some research and find out about all this stuff, I'm not saying anything that's not true, OCC single crystal both silver and copper were shown to be far superior to anything at any price OFC cheap wire 50 years ago,companies that charge 18-28,000 or more for wire are just total ripoff artists, think about it for a second what can you do to a piece of wire to make it worth that much, absolutely nothing, so if you want to get ripped off that's totally up to you, I choose not to, and and for your information the rectangular OCC single crystal wire is even better than the round OCC single crystal wire, you can't change physics. |
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akg_ca, obviously you don't know the price of the neotech the Sahara and the Amazon and obviously you know nothing about wire either The Amazon starts at $8,000 US for 2 m nothing cheap about that and obviously you've never heard it either, and just because Nordost charges ridiculous amounts for their speaker cable doesn't mean it can't be beat in fact the Amazon which is the rectangular OCC single crystal wire beat an $18,000 speaker wire and it was probably Nordost but I didn't ask the retailer if it was, wire companies like nordost, transparent audio, MIT and all those other rip-off companies charging an arm and a leg for cheap OFC wire like transparent and MIT uses is a joke and it's time for people to start waking up and seeing them for the ripoff artistd that they are, it has now been proven for over 50 years that OCC single crystal is far superior for audio than anything at any price OFC and if you don't know that by now maybe you should start doing your research a little bit better, and regular silver that Nordost uses is nowhere near as good as OCC signal crystal and the rectangular OCC single crystal is even better than the round OCC, Nordost does not use OCC single crystal so they're already starting with an inferior conductor material. and obviously you should read my post a little bit more carefully never did I say that I didn't like Nordost in my system, so please don't put words in my mouth thank you very much. |
+1 ( emphasis added ) It is my direct experience too. Upper range NORDOST cables starting with the NORSE 2 range ( HEIMDALL, FREY, TYR models) are very fine performers, I had an all-FREY array in a prior system before I upgraded to CARDAS CLEAR. The NORDOST entry level LEIF range are an easy pass for me …comparatively to their top ranges … they suck to be blunt.IMO. I had the PURPLE FLAIR in a prior “B” system. As you highlighted , they are “thin” at a minimum , and IMO lousy investment at their pricepoint. I agree that the entry level range may be beaten in certain systems with other OEM options, You dislike NORDOST in YOUR system (emphases added again ). Fine , no worries …. carry on …. But to patently profess that NORDOST can be “generally” beaten by the cheap options you list in your post, casually ignores my NORDOST cables range bifurcation immediately above . There is a BIG and graphic performance superiority reason why NORDOST VALHALLA , and NORDOST ODIN , and equally, CARDAS CLEAR and CARDAS CLEAR BEYOND together comprise the big lion’s share of best of breed performance cables selected by OEM audio companies for their products at the audio expos. TAKEAWAY They choose the best audio performance choices from a buzzilion option choices to showcase their products lines …Sure …there are other very fine performer OEM cable companies with their high-end range options for certain bespoke system synergies including inter alia, TRANSPARENT, AUDIENCE 24, VAN DEN HUL et al …. BUT you won’t see any budget options there …, full stop. |
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I would love to do a blind sound test and see people fail this test over and over ... or perhaps pass and actually notice different cables ... and I mean a "legit" real factual test would be amazing. I have Focal Chorus 836 (that I need to sell) that were powered by a Denon 4311 ... when I changed to MC152 those speakers became alive. The copper 12 gauge wire was the same, the speaker seemed like a different speaker instantly. I do believe there is places to put money, but cables are really at the end of the list of many or most other improvements. |
ghdprentice, well unfortunately you're wrong again the top Nordost stuff is beatable and it's very overpriced as well they use regular silver wire, OCC single crystal silver sounds even better and the rectangular OCC single crystal is even better than the round single crystal, Neotech The Amazon and The Sahara which is their flagship cable line would beat the Nordost silver and copper top of the line stuff. |
Are there means to try some of these cables for 30 days and see if they really make a difference. Money is not the object here, I can and have spent plenty ... although I just use OFC (oxygen free copper) 12 gauge and I honestly can't imagine that dumping $1000 or even $10,000 on speakers cables versus $100 is going to make my speakers sound any better. (for prospective with regards to amp/speaker equipment, etc, I have McIntosh amps and Utopia speakers) Side note, I often wonder why something like Noalox is not used in the speaker connection world, it's used for electric power panels on the input power lines to increase connectivity, the grease itself can carry voltage, and it would seem like it would help keep oxidation off the copper connections as well (if using raw copper) |
CL, Only on this forum. Your comment is proof. Woodworkers and British car owners seem far more rational. :) ORT, What do you think is different with horn speakers? What is amazing is the price and NO specifications to justify it. z23, I can only find their interconnects on e-bay. WEB not up. Some of their construction description makes sense, basically a low dielectric constant coax. Might qualify as a "good" cable and a nice find. No specs though. Shame they then fall into the total snake oil side like cryogenic connectors. Degrades their credibility where they may make a good product. Pandering to the "believers" I guess. lak, At least Vouge offers some details that are sound engineering. Low C, but what is the L and R which have been shown to be more significant in a speaker cable. 11 gauge and silver alloy maybe decent DCR. I would want cold-weld/crimp or soldered terminals, not set screws. Compare their pricing, high but not insane, with the companies who have no specs and just advertising! Are they an actual premium product find? Bay, Break in: About 10 seconds after a voltage is applied depending on the dielectric. Darn physics again. |
@marktheshark there are a lot of great recommendations here. You should reach out to The Cable Company that has a lending library and try a few. Only you and your system can determine what will work for you. Don't get mired down in the theater around here or the pontificating by certain members around here in particular @tvrgeek. Personality I like @stereo5 recommendation and the Canare S411 cable. But heck a cable costing more may be the ticket for you. I find the only constant in @tvrgeek engineering is that he cannot afford it he shites on it using some so called analytics (engineering speak for bs and can’t afford it), it doesn’t matter what the topic is either, DACs, Cable, Amplifiers, Ethernet Switches. His bias is obvious in his one quotes “ I can not afford it as a retired civil servant on social security” think that sums up his engineering. |
What constitutes "significant" is mostly subjective. What you insist is that others accept your definition of what's important, and what's not. If I happen to not agree with you, it's the fault of my belief system? What a load of nonsense.
You see "believers" and magic and pixie dust everywhere you turn, it seems. That says a lot about you. |
https://www.vogueaudio.com/speaker-cables I really like these speaker cables, I use them with my Coincident Frankenstein 300B stereo (8watts) Klipsch Forte IV or JBL 4319. Take advantage while they are on sale. |
"Significant" ? I think some folks should look up the word in the dictionary. Different? Yes, but tiny, tiny, tiny unless you are letting your belief system modify what you hear vs. the actual sound. A very real cause of difference I don't discount. "Cables are tone controls" Should they be? Only bad ones are in my view. The goal is for them NOT to be. We have much better ways to do that. "No entry level..." Are you a salesman? Otherwise I hope that was a joke. If not, I have a bridge for sale... "Silver over copper" OK, but that does change the velocity vs frequency adversely if you believe that to be a factor. Remember at AF, skin depth is 100% in an 18 gauge wire. Silver over copper is sometimes used for RF over long runs where it does matter. I actually run 4TC on my desk. 3 feet. Why? Because I had it. I had some cheap CCA 16 gauge temporary cable. Difference? Maybe but I would not swear to it. I run a sub so the difference DCR and effect on DF is irrelevant. I keep telling myself it helped imaging, but I am probably fooling myself. Resistance being the primary controlling factor is more significant on a full range and of course the longer the cable. Still tiny. If you want to believe cables are "significant" and have thousands to spend, then at least go check out Iconoclast as it is the result of a real cable engineer designing the very best that they know how to make using objective measurements. Kimber takes a different but not dissimilar approach. If you are a normal person with normal income, then give "good" cable as specified by real engineers a try and save your money for speakers. ANY cable that they don't publish the specs on I would consider suspicious. No specs, no science, no proof. Just advertising snake oil. Maybe some are OK. Maybe not. B.T. Barnum was very astute. I guess the price goes up if you need "magic" spades or bananas. You actually only need a good firm gas-tight connection. I wish amps and speakers still had terminal blocks. If a difference in connector is audible, it is either one was crap ( steel?, poor connection? ) or placebo. Dan, not surprised. That Monoprice 4/12 would have higher both C and L. Belden 1313A, 5T100, 1810H , Mogami W3103 would all be similar. ( and very similar to the genetic OCC wire I mentioned) Kimber 8PR is lower inductance but much higher capacitance if one wants to go that route. I am sure there are plenty of other similar wires. If I could find some 10 gauge ultra fine strand TP with thinner PTFE insulation and no jacket, I might give it a try "just because" . Yes the outer jacket does effect the velocity as measurable in a laboratory. All of this is IGNORING what goes on in the speaker. Caps, inductors, resistors, voice coils, wires and circuit boards. Some very expensive speakers have dime store crossover parts. Is that silver wire going to really make a difference when the tweeter has a couple aluminum foil caps on it? How about that woofer wound with aluminum wire to keep the mass down? Think about it as a SYSTEM and then decide what to attack first. Just because "believers" will accuse me again of saying cables make no difference, they DO. It is just very small, it is reasonably well understood, and excellent solutions are cheap. |
I have a couple pair of the Western Electric speaker cable as well as ICs. Member here in AG who makes them does awesome work, really great member to work with, excellent communication. I’ve had them with Klipsch H 4’s, Tyler T1’s, and Volti Razz. I really like them, not thin at all, in fact quite the opposite. I find them very full and sweet. I also have Nordost and IMO, simply disappear, I haven’t found them to be thin sounding. IC between pre-amp and mac240, and a source to Pre, excellent
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@tvrgeek, I use the 12/14&16 gauge for my basement setup, with nice results. My main setup, I use, Furutech OCC wire. FS-36, made a significant improvement over the Monoprice 4/12 I was using before.
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After reading all the published papers by real engineers on the subject, and doing the impedance calculations myself, I am still convinced that plain old resistance is the dominant factor by about 100:1 So, 10 gauge twisted pair seems to still be the rational choice. You can pay a lot more if you wish, but for actual sonic improvement, I doubt it. Amazon: KnuKonceptz Kord Kable 10 Gauge $51 for 50'I did not like the bright blue so I slipped a length of expanded sheath over it. |
+1 @noromance
Try some Tungsram NOS 7DJ8 tubes in your BHK pre amp. I use them in my BHK Pre amp and BHK 250 power amp. In my system, the stock tubes sound thin; the Tungsram NOS 7DJ8 tubes sound "fuller" and more natural. I've tried other brand 7DJ8s - none of them sounded as good as Tungsram. |
Parts Connexion will make you a custom pair of Duelund's for less than $400. I recommend 12 gauge, sans connectors (bare wire). I've been using Duelund in both of my systems for probably 5 years, having replaced and outperformed considerably more expensive Auditorium 23's. They do take about 150 to 200 hours to break in, so be patient. |
I’d highly recommend looking at these 12’ Acoustic Zen Satori cables that are well within your budget if they’re still available. They have plenty of tonal weight but are also well balanced with excellent and natural upper-octave detail and throw off an excellent 3D soundstage. Read the many positive reviews. I’d jump on these if they’re still available, and if they don’t work out for some reason you can likely sell them for little/no loss as there’s a very liquid used market for AZ cables. Best of luck. |
