Sota or Technics

Don’t worry about a lack of opinions. Everyone will have an opinion.

I of course like SOTA built in Delavan.
Choice is up to you.
I DO recommend the AT VM740ML for a starter cart.

Dear @doyle3433 : Both are good TTs but if I was you and with out doubt I will go for the Technics and not for the GR but this one that comes with a magnesium way better tonearm and coreless motor too:

https://www.technics.com/us/products/grand-class/direct-drive-turntable-system-sl-1200g.html


Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.

Technics for sure

I'd love to mate the two together, SOTA with it beautifully crafted wooden plinth and the Technics statement 1200g.

My friend owns the Technics 1210GR and he highly recommends it!  @rauliruegas Why would you recommend the 1200G when the OP has a budget under 2 grand?

Maybe he could stretch his budget, the magnesium tonearm is worth to have it.

R.

I would love the 1200G. but full disclosure I'm also trying to budget for some new or new to me loudspeakers. I love my TDL's but it's time for a change. My hope was to upgrade TT and speakers for around $4 to $5k. 
I mostly listen to jazz, big band to some fusion, Rock of all kinds. 
I like that both the Sota and Technics are daily drivers if you will. I mean no offence to any of the upper crust players. 
I look at it this way. I have a wonderful Triumph that I don't drive often, great car, fun to work on, fun but scary to drive. I also have a mildly modified Mazda MX5 and drive the snot out of it. Guess that's the long winded thought process. 
I worked in a high end store back in the early 90's. 
Glad I found this site, reminds me of such good times. 

It really is down to the arm. Everybody knows I am a big Sota fan. But, I'm afraid the first "real" Sota is the Sapphire. At the Comet's price point they can not put in a suspension. However, Sota has a lifetime trade in policy. So if your decide you want to move up you send in the Comet and they will credit you (not sure how much) towards your new table. 
Having said all that the RB300 is a better arm than what is on the Technics which is going to be more significant sonically. I have not listened to this Technics but I have never liked the sound of direct drive turntables. My main experience with them was decades ago, I must have sold and set up 100 of them at Luskin's Hi Fi. So, take it what it is worth. The Technics is cool looking and made well. The Goldring 1042 is IMHO the best buy in a MM cartridge. The AT VM series is also a great buy. The Goldring is perfect with the RB300. It might be a little too compliant for the Technics. The AT cartridges are fine in either. There is also Grado, Soundsmith and Clearaudio to consider. The best moving magnet cartridge I have ever heard is the Clearaudio Charisma but is not the best value. The Goldring is close and 1/3rd the price. The AT VN93ML at $170 is another amazing value. The one I set up had a stylus rake angle that was way off -87 degrees I think it was. it was actually tilted the wrong way
requiring me to raise the back of the arm quite a bit. Azimuth was fine.

I also listen to big band and own a 1200GR. I don’t know the details of the Sota arm, but the technics has removal head shells. A must if you listen to 10” 33s and 78s on a single table.  It also has push button speed control. It is based on the SP 10 & 15 moreso than the original 1200s. Transcribers swear by those models. I also own a belt drive Trovatore with the same capabilities. Between the two I find the Technics more precise, and very strong in the mids. Also, the soundstage is wider - but not as deep. I can’t comment on the cartridge choice. I prefer MC carts. Again, the discs - needle size - may limit you on the cartridges. 

Looks like you're sold on the Technics, especially since you actually like its appearance. The quality of the sound of a direct drive TT is dependent on the quality of the drive motor. Quiet motors are expensive to manufacture and that price has to be passed down to the consumer. In the price range you are considering, both tables are compromises and will work well for you, but the real players will take a little larger financial commitment.

I’m normally a fan of belt-drive tables, however, I recently acquired a 1210GR and am very impressed with the sound quality it produces. I’ve owned quite a few turntables including a handful of vintage direct-drive tables. This is the first table I’ve encountered that I feel mostly combines the best sonic attributes of belt and direct-drive. I can only surmise this is due to the core-less motor, or maybe that it allows the user to choose the motor’s torque level (which I set to its lowest). Whatever the case, it doesn’t exhibit nearly as much of the character I previously found objectionable with direct-drives.

Sure, I’d rather have a Palmer or SME 20, but for a mere mortal’s budget, I doubt there is anything better under $2K (my reference is a belt-drive setup that last retailed for over $4K).

The GR’s arm is no slouch BTW. I have a nearly new $800 Jelco arm in my closet that I could fit to the GR but don’t foresee that I’ll ever bother.

find a well cared for Sota Sapphire, decent arm and any of the good already mentioned MM carts mentioned above w addition of the Nakagoka. As you hopefully know, the 240 is the gem, GEM of your system. Tube amps mostly sound like the output transformer and the 240 has transformers rarely bettered today.....hold on to that and keep it running in top shape. PM if you need a referral on doing that.
have fun, enjoy the music. You can see sota w 240 variations on my vintage system page......

Don’t listen to anyone pushing either solution. Everyone hears differently. How you hear, and you alone, must determine which sounds better. To you. For the record, I prefer belt drive, but YMMD.

Audition, audition, audition!

Any Sota Turntable comes with a lifetime trade-in program. As it has been said here -the real magic happens with a full suspension. The Comet V is excellent. Then you can trade up to a suspended chassis model later. 

I'd get neither, and instead buy a music hall mmf-7.3 in walnut with the 2m bronze. Alternatively, replace the bronze with a Goldring Eroica LX moving coil. 

They are both good tables there are tradeoffs to both the better tonearm on the sota will be a major sound upgrade over the technics arm as well as the wood base of the sota will impart a more warm natural sound sound on acoustic music but if you listen to driving music the technics will probably please more.

I have been considering the same purchase. Done a lot of soul searching; evaluating, and discussion with people familiar with turntable design and performance. Personally, of the two choices, I like the
SL-1200GR for a variety of reasons. Overall the weakest link in that chain may be the tone arm. 
Considering the other elements in your system, I think that any weaknesses associated with the TECHNICS arm, are so miniscule, that side by side, considering the use of the same cartridge in both, The TECHNICS still comes out ahead. Also if your pair it with a GRADO "SONATA 3" cartridge. Very easy to set up with the SL-1200GR table. I believe that you will not be disappointed in the outcome.  

One thing in addition: If you really want to get the most out of any TT and cartridge setup, I strongly suggest you look into a serious record cleaning/restoration system. The KIRMUSS system is a little pricey and almost nightmarish to use, however, if you have the patience, the outcome will astound you. A "dirt cheap" second choice, which I have tried and was quite surprised at the quality of the outcome, was a combination of a RECORD DOCTOR VI, and a bottle of TTVJ ENZYME GOLD record cleaning solution . With a little thought and practice, the resulting outcome will be surprisingly close to that achieved with the KIRMUSS, at a fraction of the price. Still a little laborious, however.
Take any record that does not display signs of excess groove wear, and use on of the deep cleaning methods I have mentioned, and the resulting playback quality, will sound amazingly similar to mag tape. 

For me, In this price range the one with belt drive would be preferable. It’s a big deal to build nice quiet direct drive motor. Production requires lots of work and investments so it should cost different figures at exhaust. 

It’s a big deal to build nice quiet direct drive motor. Production requires lots of work and investments so it should cost different figures at exhaust.

This is why Direct Drive from Matshushita (Technics/Panasonic) is the best in the world, they are making direct drive turntables since the 60’s.

DD in SL1200GR is CORELESS DIRECT DRIVE, the best you can get today. You’d better read before you post.

Specific turntable recommended in this thread, not just a DD in general, it's the latest Direct Drive from Technics.

Ra Ra Technics:-)

Too bad they can't figure out how to isolate a turntable correctly.

Direct Drive from Matshushita (Technics/Panasonic) is the best in the world, they are making direct drive turntables since the 60’s. 

They could be best in the world, but the idea of DD compared to Off Board drive is on the wane in general. 

If someone tells you about himself that he is the best in the world, that is pathetic at least and the trust is on you. 

I want to thank everyone for the comments and suggestions. You all have given me food for thought for sure. It seems that DD and belt drive are two distinct animals from the same family. Lion vs Tiger no? Both seem to have their fans and detractors, I get it. It pains me to say that at least in my area, the days of going in for a nice sit down with a couple options are gone. That was what got me into this world in the first place, and provided me with my most memorable job while in school. (hard to beat listening to great music, on great gear, drinking Irish coffee while working on school work.)

I also appreciate the suggestions to look at the Music Hall, and someone locally advised me to check out a VPI scout, or scout jr. 

Surfmuz wrote, " It’s a big deal to build nice quiet direct drive motor. Production requires lots of work and investments so it should cost different figures at exhaust."  Can you say what you mean by "quiet"?  Because, as I am sure you know, the DD drive system is inherently quieter than either BD or idler-drive.  The DD platter rests on a bearing, just as does the platter of every other type.  After that, the energy to rotate the platter is purely electromagnetic; nothing makes physical contact with the platter except the bearing.  So where does the unique noise problem come from? In a BD turntable, we have a belt contacting the entire periphery of the platter, able to transmit into the platter any noises coming from the outboard motor, which of necessity is usually spinning its pulley at speeds far in excess of platter speed, making for motor bearing wear, wobble in the pulley, stretching of the belt, etc, etc. Now, one can argue that the belt is compliant, usually, and thus will damp out vibrations that inevitably emanate from a BD motor.  But that compliance makes for belt creep and speed instability. If the belt is made noncompliant, then the noise problem raises its head.

Plus, as Chakster pointed out, Technics has been in the DD turntable business since the late 1960s; they know a thing or two about the requirements for DD motors, and they didn't have to start from scratch in building their latest models, but they did choose to break with their traditional iron core motors and implement a very advanced core-less motor.  Would you care to guess how many of the 1200G, GR, GAE, etc, turntables are sold world-wide, compared to Sota Comets?  I think we can agree that Technics has ample market share to spread out its developmental costs in a way that few other audio corporations can do.
Now, if you want to talk about EMI (as another definition of "noise") emanating from a DD turntable motor that of necessity is placed very close to the rotating LP, that is a fair criticism.  But Technics engineers are not stupid, and they have that long history of building DD turntables on which to draw, which means the motors are shielded from the platter surface by both the platter itself and the motor casing.  One advantage of a core-less motor, as used in turntables, is that it casts its field laterally, rather than in the horizontal direction.
Mijostyn wrote, "Having said all that the RB300 is a better arm than what is on the Technics which is going to be more significant sonically. I have not listened to this Technics but I have never liked the sound of direct drive turntables. My main experience with them was decades ago, I must have sold and set up 100 of them at Luskin's Hi Fi. So, take it what it is worth."  This is too easy.  How can one say the RB300 is better than the tonearm on the 1200G series and then in the next breath say you have never heard the Technics?  Only Mijo possesses such a skill set.  Plus, were they selling a lot of SP10s at Luskins?  I doubt it.  Was the store quiet enough for you to even hear what your customer might have been saying, let alone the nuances of what one turntable sounds like compared to another?  I am doubtful. (To those too young to know, Luskins was a chain of huge busy stores based in Baltimore, MD, with stores also in DC and VA, something like a Best Buy where the product lines were more narrowly focused on home hi-fi.)

As someone else said, you should buy what you like.  If it were me, I would choose the Technics in a heartbeat, although I do have respect for the high end of SOTA turntables.  Even Mijostyn says the major advantage of the Comet is that you can later trade it in on something better.  That's not what I call praise.  Of course, I am biased; I own and listen to four different vintage DD turntables of the highest quality.

Is SOTA even relevant today?  The Comet is a toy, the Technics is a good turntable and the complete package. The arm in the SL1210 is no slouch. It is said to be 85% of the Magnesium arm in the SL1200g. Doubtful you would hear a difference unless you do many comparisons.

Absolutely, nothing against Technics or DD. Both, the brand and technology is gear and have their pluses, but I like the BD better. According to mechanic rules (mechanic as part of physics) it is much harder to maintain balance and isolation of shaft with motor on it towards surface than shaft separated from the motor. 

Technics without a shadow of a doubt, penalizes the aesthetics now exploited in abundance by the old versions.

Neither.

I was looking into getting a new TT as well with a budget similar to OP. But I am waiting to refinish the basement before making the final decision. I narrow it down to the Marantz TT-15S1 or the MoFi UltraDeck both come with a good MM cart and has very good reviews.

Technics all the way. I own a 1200G because I found a great deal on it. I did consider the GR before the G popped up. It will last forever, it's always ready to work, in my opinion it's gorgeous to look at and most important - it sounds amazing. Very easy to switch head shells as well.

I would recommend upgrading your speakers to SALK Song3 Encore towers.  However, they are $6,000 and well worth the cost difference.  I met Jim Salk at the RMAF two years and I thought these sounded better than a pair of $60,000 speakers down the hallway.  However, he was playing these through tub mono blocks and perhaps the mono blocks made them sound so incredible.  Maybe there is something to be said for tube amplifiers.  They do sound warmer.  However, they do require more maintenance and the cost of replacing tubes.  Not sure how mono blocks work.  Are they two channels of mono to create stereo?  I am sure this gives me away for being such a rookie.  There are so many incredibly knowledgeable people in this group and I am sure they could explain this to me.  Bear with me.

If I had to choose between these t.t.s I would go with the SOTA. In fact I would avoid the Technics. However my first choice would another brand.

@lewm , Yes, I have that skill set. I do not have to listen to that  arm. I can see it. I do not understand how a smart guy like you can't tell by looking at a very simple device why it might be inferior. The RB 300 has it's deficiencies but is handily a better design than the Technics arm. But the single most significant problem with that turntable is that it is in no way shape or form isolated the way a proper turntable should be. A cartridge in that arm, on that turntable is still reading a lot of environmental garbage that it should not be. The Comet being unsuspended is probably no better in that regard but at least it has an arm without unnecessary contacts and with reasonably low moment of inertia.

Buy a used Technics SP10Mk2 - fantastic machines.  Heres one.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Technics-SP-10MK-Direct-drive-turntable-with-WE-308SX-Tonearm-Excellent/154...

Good Listening

Peter

@lewm, If you have a direct drive table could you do us a favor? Take the platter off, hover the cartridge over the motor about two inches from the spindle at platter height, turn the motor on and turn up the volume. You hear anything?

Love my SOTA Nova, and agree with mijostyn3 that the Sapphire is where you need to start in the brand. And don't get an ugly oak or black finish; live a little and get it in a beautiful exotic wood! The RB300 or various Jelcos arms are good, or better yet if you find a deal on a used Fidelity Research FR64fx that arm will be amazing on a SOTA.

If you're strictly sticking to your budget and those 2 models, I'd be more inclined to try the Technics. But there are loads of used SOTAs out there and refurb/service options through SOTA too. Just be aware the older Sapphires had a 3-point suspension; the 4-point of Star/Nova models and modern Sapphires is better. But hey, even an old Sapphire will be pretty nice once tuned up.

Don't underestimate the value of SOTA's suspension; you can almost completely screw up your rack/isolation scheme and still be OK with a SOTA whereas the same platform would be a train wreck for other tables. 

Tonearm is most important, assuming the table spins at the right speed. You can always add isolation or put it on a wall shelf.

As the OP mentioned it is a Rega RB330, not 300, and this was a nice improvement a few years ago.

I’d get the Sota between the two, but if it were me, I’d go with a Rega P6, or if I could, stretch for the P8 and get an even better arm and table for $2600 if you could get a 15% discount, which are out there. That could be your last turntable.

I am enjoying these posts of Sota vs Technicsh. As a recent owner of a Sota, I should mention that the company has gone through several iterations, but continues with their excellent customer service and products. I did find the discussion incomplete in as much as the newest iterations shows the Cosmos as the top of the line with thicker aircraft aluminum and inclusion of a new 3 phase motor that can be purchased extra but comes with the Cosmos. So I am not sure the Saphire remains top of their line. I do know that the quality of build continues and the stability that mijostyn speaks to compared not only to Technics but many other TTs. I couldn't be more pleased with my Cosmos and can recommend without reservations. 

Sokogear, walls vibrate just as much as floors. Wall shelves are at best flimsy. Yes, you can buy isolation. A MinusK stand costs $5000.00 
A Sota Sapphire costs $3500 and along with the Nova and Cosmos make up some of the best isolated tables you can buy competing with tables costing many times as much. There are many well isolated tables to choose from coming from Thorens, SME, Avid, Oracle, Basis, TechDas, Kuzma, Dohmann and Sota. They achieve a level of clarity and stability impossible in an unsuspended table. None of them are direct drive. 
Not sure why this is. I can easily envision a suspended direct drive table with a taller platter/longer shaft distancing the motor from the cartridge.
Some day someone will make it.

@mijostyn - I disagree with you. Walls do not jump with foot falls. I have a P8 on a wall shelf on top of a Townshend seismic isolation platform. So it is pretty damn isolated. The solid steel shelf is directly screwed into 4 studs and believe me - it is not going anywhere, especially since my table weighs only 10 pounds. That's why Rega sells shelves. Mine is a Project since it accommodates my tru-lift.

That may not be quite as good as an SME (or others costing >$5K with arm) but having an RB 880 arm is excellent. I think we agree on most points though. SOTA has had some ups and downs. Rega is not going anywhere (or is Technics, VPI, and a few others). I tend to not want to get involved with a boutique turntable vendor.

If I wanted to spend some mad $$ on a $5K+ table, I would look at all your choices that are stable companies.

I'm not a DD fan, but I think it is a good concept if executed properly. Hard to separate the motor though. The devil is in the details. I heard about a new VPI DD table that is supposedly excellent, but it is up there in price and I do not like unipivot arms and I think their Fatboys that are 3D printed are crap. I guess you could put a 3rd party arm on it, but I like buying an arm and table that are designed for each other if possible. I think turntable nirvana is a top SME.

@sokogear, Get a stethoscope and listen to the wall with your system running. The Townsend platform is certainly a step in the right direction but it is not as effective as a good suspension or a MinusK platform.
If you had a Sota you could put it anywhere in the room, on a collapsible card table and it would have superior isolation to what you are doing.
I think however under the circumstances you are doing the best you can with the resources you have. So, I know you have an appreciation of what isolation means to a turntable. In the future when you feel like upgrading you have a direction to head in. I think you should consider one of the tables I mentioned above. In the mean while the P8 is a great value and it has a good arm.  

thanks @mijostyn - I beleive you - no stethoscope required. I actually spoke with Max Townshend himself (nice guy, not a real businessman though, more like a mad scientist, which is a shame, because he has some fantastic products including a turntable no longer made called the Rock, which is supposedly one of the best tables ever - he could have been a higher end Rega) when I was buying the Townshend platform and he told me ALL about the microtremors in the earth that his systems counteract. He has studied earthquakes, etc. in a real way. They are present on the floor or wall of course all the time.

Like I said though, the wall has no footfalls, which are the worst, which I was having with Max's platform because I have a suspended floor over a crawl space and those low frequencies hit at the wrong point and were additive with his platform. It sounded so much better that I was willing to deal with the foot falls, but once I decided to put in the wall shelf (and my wife didn't throw a fit) I have the vibration/isolation as optimized as possible. It sounds incredible, so I don't see myself changing it as it is the strongest part of my system. I know internal isolation within a table is the most desirable, but I would probably have to at least double my TT investment.  Law of diminishing returns....

Maybe speakers down the road. My KEF R500s are only a year old, and they replaced a 25 year old pair of Alons, so based on my previous behavior/experience my system may be set for a long time, other than cartridge maintenance (VDH MC One Special) unless the distributor makes me an offer I can't refuse when that stylus wears out and I get something else. Just got the cartridge completely replaced in August, so I'm just kicking back for a few years most likely. 

What's your system and where are you from?

What do you think of the new entry level SME table for like $9K?

Forget it - I just saw your system you posted. Pretty nice, I must say. Way beyond mine, but I am not a fan of electrostatics as they are very directional from what I hear, and the dustcover on your table is attached through those hinges which bother me because it is better to remove it completely when playing and when I used to have to worry about that on my old Rega P5, I forgot sometimes if I put the dustcover back in the hinges when stopped paying for the time being. I guess I should just have never put it back in the hinges but it is hard for me to change a mindless routine after 10 years with a table, and with the P8 it is impossible to screw that up.

You really are into the digital stuff big time. Do you prefer it to vinyl or does it depend if you can find the vinyl of what you want to play?

My potential interest in digital would be if there were a lot of music I couldn't find on vinyl, which is not the case. I hate to say it, but I like what I like and the newest group that I have any vinyl of is REM (I know that dates me). Of course I have new records from people still alive, but they've all been around a while.

BTW - I have the same Beatles Collection sitting on top next to my components outside the normal record area......

What's the Beatles box on top?

There is nothing wrong with the arm on the Technics, objectively, based on construction and specs. It is very simple in appearance but it is also the result of many years of production experience. It sounds great to me when used with a suitable cartridge.   Of course there are better arms but they cost considerably more and many of them don't offer the flexibility and ease of use of the arm on the Technics.  When I was considering a new turntable a few years ago, it also came down to SOTA and Technics.  I ended up buying a Technics 1200G and am very happy with it.  Both are fine tables and you should be happy with either one, especially if all you want to do is play stereo LPs.  If you want to play 78s or use a mono cart occasionally, the Technics would be the better choice.

I own the Technics GR along with a bunch of super vintage MM and MC carts. This turntable is excellent for the price but if I had your budget I might buy the Technics SL-1200MK7 and use the extra money for an excellent cart. Technics all the way.