Room with glass windows as a walls.

Hi surfmuz ...

Another vote for the Marigo Tuning Dots mentioned above, relatively unobtrusive and seriously effective.  Contact Ron of Marigo with your concerns.  Best.

More Peace, Pin       (bold print for old eyes)

surfmuz

IIRC, they were from 3-Day Blinds.  Just measure and they make them to size.  Look for them on the web.

I’ve had my main stereo system set up in front of a large expanse of glass for 25 years. Always was advised to put curtains on the windows to tame the reflections, but I like to enjoy the view while listening.  What has really helped is to creatively find ways to listen in the near field with the speakers pulled out a bit from the glass. Took some trial and error.  Not perfect but sounds terrific.  And my adult sons absolutely don’t listen to my decorating or setup advice!

If she can afford to live in an apartment on the 43 floor .God Bless Her.. li

there is no evidence that glass performs differently than drywall...except in the lower frequencies. 

the challenge with glass is that you can't really hang art or other things like you can with drywall...so you get bad flutter echo. 

Modern rooms also typically don't have carpet. I'm guessing this is true for your daughters new space....so rugs with carpet pads will help. 

Furnishings can also help. Again modern furniture won't be as helpful as it's typically reflective compared to soft and plushy. Clutter can also be helpful. You don't want a sparce room.

best of luck  

@toddalin are those black-out drapes custom made or sold as a precut panels? Is color choice available?

@unreceivedogma 

She has never been interested in my advice.

My is reasonable. She is not shy to ask for my advice in tech questions, audio system, cars etc. recently she asked for good old movies. For music she has own taste, but when some times she listened to my stuff at home or in my car, she is asking me for a names. When advice is coming by my initiative it could be ignored for some time but when she rolled it in her head for a while she returns to it and asks  me like nothing happened, makes it look like it her initiative:)

I have a similar issue. The solution was to apply Marigo Audio dots to the windows.

These were developed by a PhD at Princeton, and they work! 

Call them, and they will help you decide which dots to use based on the size of the windows, and exactly where on the window to place each dot.

Happy Listening! 

I have a daughter who is a professional musician. 

She is also a fashion trendsetter. 

She has never been interested in my advice. 

I suspect that though your daughter may be neither of these things, she is moving into a new apartment, signaling her independence.

Don’t be a helicopter dad. I'm guessing she will figure it out. 

Directional horn loaded speakers w/ warm tube amp could help. Volti Razz? 

These are black-out drapes for the projector. They have a double layer and do a good job of diffusing the sound and removing the window reflections and vibrations.

I have (had) a similar problem with a wall of glass paneled doors with windows opposite my speakers , in back of my listening position. I had custom Draperies made with a think cotton front with heavy liner or backing behind and attached to the front fabric. The drapes are weighty and folded and provide fantastic absorption because there are many folds as well as thick fabric. So basically the sound gets sucked in and can’t bounce out. The room might even border on too damped. So any further room treatments are on the side walls  I have used diffusion. I have a thick fabric couch with a padded area rug.   The diffusion on the side walls at the 1st reflections and behind the speakers on the front wall , allow my system to shine. The room seems much larger with the diffusion. Do not over damp with absorption!! 

to you it was because you know all the background info. 

to me it wasn't

based on the responses and questions, it wasn't 

but it's your post, apparently you think you are absolutely right, it makes no sense to argue

@grislybutter 

they are lacking basic info to understand what you need.

What I need is clearly stated in my post, isn’t it. 
I was asking if anybody had experienced setting up a system in such conditions. 

Good advice from @yyzsantabarbara as usual.

$830 for Roon is one of the best things a hard core audiophile who is also a music lover can buy.  I did.   The DSP using convolution filters and all the rest can be best thought of as a priceless bonus feature!!!

I use multiple third party convolution filters for specific headphone models and several I created myself with REW for various rooms in my house where I listen.

@OP you can generate convolution filters for your daughter’s room yourself with REW (open source software, free) and the aforementioned $100 mic.

Then, instead of expensive roon or JRiver you can run Daphile (Linux-based, open source, free) on the same suitably minimally configured PC you would need to run roon on anyway, load your convolution filters in Daphile, and voilà.

Not sure about the cost of ROON these days but I bought a lifetime subscription 10 years ago for $450

It’s $830 right now.

Use a pair of Magneplanars or similar dipoles which have less interaction with the sidewalls the room. That will at least mitigate reflection problems.

Agree with the Maggie's having less sidewall reflection problems. I removed my acoustic panel for the first reflection when I had the LRS+ in my old office. I got a pair of Mini Maggies yesterday for this same reason but for an even smaller room than the LRS+.

My DSP solution with the convolution filters is a one and one solution without any visible cosmetic changes to the apartment.

I don’t mean to aggravate you @surfmuz but you can see people are trying to help but they are lacking basic info to understand what you need. Such as what matters to your daughter, the floorplan you later described, her interior design preferences, budget, etc. For instance, in my reading, you are trying to help her but she is...

somewhere between indifferent to not seeing this as a priority?

How do you help someone who is happy/fine with the status quo? I have helped (tried to help) my kids, friends and neighbors and ran into the same issue, people need to want to be helped for it to work.

@grislybutter do you think it would be helpful to describe it unambiguously when the situation is ambitious!?

I have used the large Marigo dots for windows successfully for years. If she can accept 2 - 3 inch white dots placed towards the corners of the windows in the listening area, this may be the solution. 

Use a pair of Magneplanars or similar dipoles which have less interaction with the sidewalls the room. That will at least mitigate reflection problems.

She actually understands all my explanations about acoustic issues at new place, but she doesn’t take it seriously.

You can avoid being interpreted in ways you don’t like easily. Don’t be vague. Describe the situation unambiguously. 

@surfmuz Last I looked a JRiver license was about $75 while ROON is a lot more. However, if you think of those 2 as a piece of audio gear, it is not that much. I use a very cheap ($500) DELL PC to run ROON. The same can be done for JRiver and then connect to QoBuz. My cheap $500 computer is in a different room from my audio gear (a different floor too).

Not sure about the cost of ROON these days but I bought a lifetime subscription 10 years ago for $450. The best audio purchase I ever made.

What I suggested with the DSP done using convolution filters will 100% solve your daughters' audio room.

@ yyzsantabarbara No Roon or JRiver. She has access to my Qobuz Studio Family tire and she stream it via Teac NT-505.

@surfmuz

Does your daughter use ROON or JRiver for audio streaming?

If so, call Digital Room Calibration Services, Convolver, Headphone Filtersets (accuratesound.ca)

Mitch Barnett will setup DSP for your daughter’s audio space to make her system work.

You will not need any physical acoustic panels using the convolution files that Mitch will create. This guy is a genius Audio Engineer and written an impressive book on DSP (see Amazon.com).

The cost is $750, and he will create the DSP files remotely (with your daughters input). Your daughter first acoustically measures the room using a decent mic ($100), free software, and a laptop.

Doing DSP this way is way more effective than using any DSP features on any low computing audio gear.

Resources – Audio Digital Signal Processing - Accurate Sound

@grislybutter why you misinterpret my post!? Did it tell that she doesn’t care about the issue!?

@onhwy61 you right, youngsters needs their freedom, totally agreed with you, I’m actually proud of my kids being free and independent at their young age, however when you know your child and when you see that she is interesting in something you interesting too, you want her to keep running that good game and you want to be helpful that’s all. 

I agree with the earlier DSP suggestion. Grab a Leagcy Wavelet and let it help tame things.

@onhwy61 very true, it's implied in his post that she doesn't care about these issues

lonemountain

In extremely reflective envrons there seems to be only two solutions, both mentioned here. 1) dampen the hell out of it (heavy curtains like theater curtains- very expensive) , 2) distributed low level nearfield playback

There is an another option. Get Wavetouch audio speakers. Unlike other speakers (more 1st reflection points on walls, floor, and ceiling), walls and a floor influence much less to WT speakers’ sounds.

One must find used WT speakers. I have no time for WT speakers for a long time. Alex/WTA

I respect that the OP has good intentions as are all the responders, but the situation getting absurd in that a bunch of old men, at least demographically speaking, are advising a young woman on how to decorate her apartment.  Are we next going to give her makeup and clothing advice?

Sometimes it best to let your children figure it out themselves.

I apologize in advance for sounding like an old, cranky guy.

@rodman99999 ‘infinitely tuneable’ - +1 : )

Glass walls are rough.  If there's ANY possible way for her to hang acoustic clouds on the ceiling, that would be my suggestion.  You can make them yourself for super cheap or order them from a company like GiK Acoustics.  Minimal issue, just need to cover the holes and paint that part of the ceiling when she moves if she's renting.  Also not sure if every single wall in the room is glass, but if you can get paneling up on any of the NON glass windows, that would be ideal. 

And one more suggestion would be, if she can stomach it, use adhesive or command strips and hang at least a decent size section at first reflection 4-6" thick of the thicker stuff on the window where her first reflection point is.  Or again, buy some panels from GiK for first reflections.  With clouds, and first reflections covered, and if her rear wall is not glass, putting some diffusion on there, would help massively!  Best of luck to you and to her!

I also deal with (in my lessor set up) lot's of glass and a spouse who likes the shades open. Shades, curtains, rugs all help. And there's also DSP.

Flipping may help. Putting speakers near windows with some small treatment panels could help..

St Jude?

Your query reminded me of this video in which the speakers sound pretty damn good in what appears to be an acoustically awful room.

There was also another video (same speakers/room) with different music, but I could not find it.

Was the sound doctored, or did they actually achieve this sound @ the listening position?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGtXhRDpLJU

DeKay 

DSP.

In extremely reflective envrons there seems to be only two solutions, both mentioned here.   1) dampen the hell out of it (heavy curtains like theater curtains- very expensive) , 2) distributed low level nearfield playback that doesnt energize the room enough to hit the reflective surfaces (Donavabdears post). Also complicated and expensive.  Narrow dispersion can help but it has its own problems of being beamy with a very small sweetspot that is hard to find in both planes (vertical and horizontal). But if you can find it, that can at least provide some measure of enjoyment.  For most, rooms like this are usually a long process of experimentation and money that usually ends as "cannot be fixed".  The Crystal Cathedral story is a great example:  still sucks after hundreds of thousands invested.   Glass heavy rooms are the one case where being an audiophile and fussing over sound quality doesnt work out well. @winoguy17 is right!

sounds like a lot of people's wasted time on advising the OP, when OP did not describe the floorplan in the first place - which would have been key to avoiding all these rabbit holes for us.

Obviously, the easiest audiophile solution would be to move and build a new home with a dedicated listening room and its own electrical source. Other than that, I can be of no assistance. Or... just enjoy life and the accompanying soundtrack to its fullest extent.

Many years ago the acoustics company I worked for was the 4th company to try to put in a sound system in the newly built Crystal Cathedral in So. California. Clearly it was an impossible job and our Lead engineer said they would have to put in satellite speakers behind every seat. Well that was to expensive but ultimately concessions had to be made to the look of the interior to get the RT60 to something  close to intelligible. Sometimes you just can’t win?

I suggest heavy curtains, a dense rug and DSP! I place acoustic panels along my windowed wall while listening. Gotta work with you have!

@axpert  No, it’s not a loft apartment with a huge open space, and no reflective ceiling, floors are laminate. It’s one bedroom apartment with office room and living room divided by structural wall, but that wall is actually not a full wall and not connected with a glass window wall on the side, the space between them is approximately one feet. The system and speakers are facing this structural wall and the other window glass wall is behind the speakers. 

Lots of glass windows? Is this a loft apartment with high reflective ceilings, hard uncovered or untreated floors. Very little furniture to dampen reflective sound waves?

Large open dimensional space? Starting with the windows is most likely the real killer in the picture, but also, just a beginning. To properly condition a space like this (assuming I'm correct) is a nightmare for an amateur. Hiring an acoustical specialist would most likely present a cost beyond the value of the system.

Sounds like you'll be chasing this problem around without much true acoustical satisfaction, For a long time.

If your daughter is a "serious listener" as opposed to just a casual listener, the sublime answer may be a good quality pair of headphones. Less hassle and less expense in the long run.

Admittedly however, the drapery treatment, as several have mentioned, plus a lot of cushiony furniture will definitely help the situation, without going crazy. Listening at lower volumes will help as well. But don't rule out component placement. Especially the location and positioning of the primary satellite speakers. I'm certain that some experimentation is this area will yield a number of different results.

I don't know what caliber of equipment she has. If it's just "mid-fi" as I call it, trying to treat the listening space is probably not worth it. 

If sound really matters to her, the other consideration might be to move at an opportune time. Then choose you apartment listening space carefully as much as other living space considerations.

Absorbers, absorbers, nothing but absorbing material in a glass room like that. Diffusers definitely not needed. Tubes and all copper cables also a good approach. Try to aim the speakers with first reflection points at solid walls. She sounds like a cool daughter.

Listen nearfield.

@surfmuz -

         With the correct acoustic curtains; the window reflections will be almost infinitely tuneable, with the pull of a cord.

                                         Can't hurt!

                                     Happy listening!

I would use paravans. Obviously one doesn't live in a glass box to cover it up, there must be views. Having played with deflectors by my speakers, paravans may have the exact affect and a nice Japanese is decorative too 

@ozzy62  Yes, Ozzy a big fluffy area rugs is definitely under construction. I already told her to look this way and she took the advice. Tnx. 

@rodman99999  Thanks Rodman, ripple-fold curtains is way to go. We’ll definitely consider that.

@onhwy61  Yes, she definitely noticed the problem, but as I see she is too overwhelmed with adapting to the new place, organizing everything there, so sound system is not priority yet. Also she is trying to be more independent and I think she will not complain anyway but probably she will just limit her listening instead.