It is also quite quiet!
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It has been pointed out that the Keith Monk RCM is used by Better-Records and no one can question the cleanliness of their records. Their current model similar to the Better-Records one is $3750. It is not ultrasonic but must be good. Anyone know how it works? Millercarbon, you also mentioned the Walker stuff. What is the complete process? The micro photo on the Keith Monk site shows an “after” that is completely clean. What does the a Walker stuff add? |
https://positive-feedback.com/audio-discourse/rushton-paul-diy-approach-ultrasonic-cleaning-lps/ After I read this article I went DIY US with a VPI Cyclone to remove the rinse water. It’s total cost was more than $1000, I spent total (US and VPI) just about $1800. It’s the best thing I ever did for my collection. I used Discwasher D2, D3, D4, etc. I used Record Doctor with their juice and MoFi juice. Then I used the VPI with their juice and MoFi juice and the Walker 4 step program. The Walker got them clean and quiet, but it’s very tedious, somewhat less so than the Kirmiss though. None were as complete and as easy. A big plus is that static is temporarily removed as one of the detergents has an agent to de-static used in hospitals and clean rooms. The rinse is very important. The cleanest water (Type 1 Regents) is very important so no debris is left behind. Always use a fresh, new inner sleeve also. The records stay quiet. When they get dusty that causes some clicks or pops I just rinse again and play after a ten minute air dry. I can do about six records an hour, much faster than the Walker system and like greased lightning compared to the Kirmiss. The plus, not anticipated, beside quiet records is the stylus stays cleaner and wears less. After more than 1500 hours on my turntable the stylus of my Sound-Smith Helios looked like it had 300-400 hours according to Peter Lederman. There is a very lengthily thread on the VPI forum, with Harry chiming in from time to time. It is quite illuminating in that you can learn all the problems to avoid without experiencing them yourself. |
I have a Project RCM. Best investment I have made in my audio hobby. Even records that look clean sound better. I don’t play any vinyl that has not been through the cleaner at least once. It’s a manual vacuum based system but is a breeze to use. After cleaning a few hundred records I could go through the motions without thinking. Every clean record goes into a new MFSL inner sleeve and is dated. |
I assume au_lait's tongue is well in his cheek as soft grade brushes used in a circular motion....arrrgh. I have used a Nitty Gritty some 30 years with very good results. But the drive is worn out and I have to help it turn the disc. Looking to replace so all your posts are very helpful. Clearly US is the way to go, but the Kirmuss four+ stage palaver is not for me. Neither do I trust the smug pseudoscience ladled out by Mr K. Costly, but the Degritter looks the way to go. Computer control manages all functions automatically and makers don't stress any need for additives to plain old distilled water. |
Record cleaning machines are a rip off and sometimes they make the situation worse. All you need is the softest grade tooth brush, a 1$ bottle of Dawn dish soap, and a bit of time. Wash them in with a bit of running water and soap, in a circular motion, don’t be shy, then dry rinse really well and dry in the rack. I have 12,000 or so records, I use them to make a living, and do this method all the time. It works. |
Had VPI 16.5. Now use a DIY US system based on Elmasonic. FAR better than VPI, which I sold. US is better for all records, new or used. You don't need to suck mud off a record if you can float it off with a gentle US agitation. My stylus re-tip is expensive, and I am registering minimal wear at 1000 hours. My US machine just payed for itself. |
I have a Cleanervinyl US RCM. cleans up to 12 records at a time. Manual, but it works. Some of my used records need multiple cleanings. Still working on a process to clean them, but 15 minutes in the RCM + manual clean with Disc Doctor fluid (3 times) seems to do the trick. If your records are mostly clean and not used, the unit will work fine for you, at least IMHO. YMMV of course. |
The advice to experience these machines before you decide is very sound. If you know anyone who owns or sells a cleaning machine, try it out. Clean a record with it. As stated, online videos show the machine in action. I wanted to offer another machine that I haven't seen mentioned. About 3 weeks ago I got the Degritter. I can not recommend it highly enough. Unfortunately, it is beyond your target price. But, if you have the ability to stretch, it is worth it. It is super easy to use, cleans both sides of the record at once, it's fully automated, drys as well as cleans, is very solidly built and software controlled with free updates. I have owned a Hannl from Germany for a coupe of years. A very, very good machine, built to very high standards and excellent at cleaning records. But it is a chore to use. It has a counter-rotating brush that is fiddly to adjust, cleans one side at a time, requires your constant attention, vacuums but does not dry the record, etc. I'm keeping it because it will do a better job on really soiled records, but I never look forward to using it. One real plus is how quiet it is. Most vacuum machines are very loud. The Degrtter on the other hand is a dream to use. Turn it on, set the cleaning level, insert the record, push start and it does the rest. It will beep when it is done. And when it is done you have a completely cleaned and dried record, ready to go. Nothing is perfect. Aside from the cost (~$3k) there are a couple of things to know. The drying cycle is noisy so it is best used where it won't annoy yourself or others. The fan speed and drying time are user adjustable so you can slow the fan to reduce noise but it is a lot louder than the Hannl. I don't think it is louder than most vacuum machines though. Second thing to know is common to all ultrasonic machines. Creating the cavitation needed to clean the groves heats the water. After several cleanings the machine needs to cool it down. Fortunately with the Degritter that process is automated. Even mid cleaning cycle, the machine will shift to a cool down mode until the water temp is within tolerance and then resumes cleaning. No additional action on your part. Sorry for the long post and a recommendation well outside of your stated price target. All of the machines work, they clean records. Some are a bit more effective, but they all work. As @pgaulke60 noted though, the user experience is very different. Some of these cleaning machines/systems are very labor and time intensive. If money is a tighter resource than time, there are lots of less expensive options that simply require more time and attention to clean your records. For me time is in short supply so the more automated solution is a huge benefit. Hopefully this is helpful. |
I highly suggest that you go and test drive these machines, if you have access to any. They all have different attributes and frankly different noise levels. Some are more manually intensive, others much more user friendly. Lots of considerations. Where are you going to put it. If you are playing an LP or any music for that matter you don't want to be having a record cleaning machine overpowering the music with the noise it makes to clean a record. Hint: They all have a level of noise. Also, some just don't clean that well. Some clean two sides at once (preferrable) versus cleaning one side then turning it over to clean the 2nd side and getting it dirty and staticy again. Go check them out. Watch YouTube videos as well. They are quite helpful. |
Has anyone used one of these and did you think it did the job well? https://squeakycleanvinyl.com/products/squeakycleanvinyl-mk-iii |
What you want/need depends on what records you buy and how much work you want to do in order to accomplish your goal of clean records. My suggestion: If you buy only new records you only need an US RCM If you buy used records from random vendors you need a vacuum based RCM like VPI, or be willing to hand wash (spin clean) If you like DIY and have room, an ebay/amazon put together US RCM is fine. If you want to drop the record in and have it cleaned and dried, it will cost more money for something more automatic. I have a VPI vacuum RCM (for dirty records) and an Audio Deske US RCM for new records and used records cleaned by the VPI. |
@andrewkelley if you want the very best cleaner for the very best sonics, get an UC (ultrasonic cleaner). Since the automatic UC are $3-4k such as the Audiodesk, you'll have to get a manual one. I highly recommend a Kirmuss Audio Ultrasonic cleaner which I intend to purchase in a month or so. In July 2019 Stereophile Analog Corner, Michael Fremer begrudgingly (Fremer questioned many of the inventor's scientific claims) endorsed the results as being at least equal and sometimes better than his automatic UC. There are cheaper more homemade type versions of UC out there, but the Kirmuss is a better finished product. $900 Elusive Disc - package deal $900 Upscale Audio - 3LPs vs 2 at a time |
Had a Kirmuss...sold it before opening the box. I will not spray anything on my "expensive" record collection, especially something called "defactant". I saw it in action and was convinced and bought it. I did see the "white toothpaste" commonly discussed it left behind on an older record, as it was demonstrated at a local store with 2 free cleanings. I have an Okki Nokki in the process of selling and broken down and bought an Audiodesk and soooooooo glad I did. |
If you don’t mind rotating the records yourself, you can get a Spin Clean record cleaner for $80 that comes with 4 ozs of cleaning fluid (good for about 5 tanks) and two drying cloths. You can make more cleaning fluid with 2/3 distilled water, 1/3 90+% isopropyl alcohol and two drops of dishwashing liquid per 4 ozs. Then just rotate the record in one direction and then the other. The instructions say rotate 3-4 times each direction, but I found it necessary to rotate more, depending upon the condition of the record. I rotate anywhere from 20-50 times each direction, and then dry the record off and see how it plays. Repeat as needed. Works for me. |
Check out Kirmuss Audio Ultrasonic cleaner. I have been using it for a couple years with excellent results. Priced <$1000 https://kirmussaudio.com/ |
