Power conditions for Integrated Amps

Integrated still have an amp in it.  it is the amp that needs full power from the wall.  IMHO, power "conditioners" are a waste of money.  

I absolutely plug 100% of my audio gear into Furman with LiFT and SMP protection. in particularly noisy environments (apartments) I miss them when they are not in place.  I use a Luxman 507ux BTW.

I wrote about this here:

@carlsbad

+1

- quality build ( emphasis added ,,,);integrated amps with robust power supplies don’t generally require power conditioners .
- Many such OEM brands actually instruct users to follow the manual with direct to wall connections.

- The possible exception are ad hoc rare circumstances if you live in an old apartment building or alternatively in a rural area prone to “uneven” power supply delivery.

- 80+% of power surges are internally sourced in the home. Putting in full home surge  protection at the breaker panel is recommended. 

I had a Furman, and i didnt like the results. I now have a Saturn 103C on both of my systems, and everything is plugged into it. dead quiet ZERO noise. The Saturn are capacitor based. I opened them up and had a look. all caps.

I use 2 Chang Lightspeed units, one for my audio system and one for the video system, They are dead quiet, do not limit current and are an asset to both systems. Check them out:

I traded in my Furman for a PowerPlant. I've NEVER plugged any integrated amps into a conditioner in 50 years.

I use power conditioner, but it's really more about surge protection since we have more than our fair share of power outages.  At this point I've chosen security over sound quality though it still sounds pretty great to my ears.  I didn't use the power conditioner when I had a Krell S-300i because it exceeded the capacity of the power conditioner.

I don't understand people describing their power "conditioners" as quiet.  Are they getting noise from the wall outlet that the conditioner supposedly eliminates?

Or are they misreading the specs and when a conditioner says it eliminates noise (meaning electrical noise) they listen their speakers to confirm?

Jerry

i use gilbert yeung's passive filters for my power or integrated amps - they don't affect the power draw, seem to result in a slightly blacker background on most amps i have owned... pass labs is the exception, i cannot hear any difference

I own two different integrated amps, an Allnic T-1500 300B tubed and a Luxman 590 AX II. I've tried both of them plugged directly into a dedicated 20 amp outlet and into my Niagara 1200. I detect no difference in what I hear. The moral of the story is you have to try it both ways to find out what works best for your system.

+1 @lak 

Every home is different with regards to noise levels in their lines, and every power conditioner is different. There will be a few factors that will influence whether a power conditioner will be suitable for an amplifier (or any component for that matter):

1. What type of filtering does it employ and how does it shape sound?

2. Does it limit current as a result?

Most power conditioners do enforce some type of current limitations, so if you have a power hungry amplifier, (depending on the conditioner) it sometimes cannot get the headroom it needs at peak current needs and as a result won’t be as dynamic as it should be. Sometimes the filtering also has inverse effects on the dynamics and details as well.

To date I’ve liked PS Audio power plants for everything except amplifiers. Even with their highest end P20 I still know a number of people who prefer to plug their amps into the wall. I personally own a Synergistic Research Galileo PowerCell, and I cannot tell the difference between plugging the amp straight into wall vs into the PowerCell, so I leave it in the PowerCell. 

@lak AMEN BROTHER!

The moral of the story is you have to try it both ways to find out what works best for your system.

It depends on the conditioner. Many impede current flow to amps(doesn't matter if it's integrated or not). A few of them don't.

Now using the Black Lion Audio PG-2. Not for conditionning since the listening room has its own dedicated electrical feed and sounds dead quite from the wall. Instead using it for convenience, it has 14 outlets on it, using 11 of them including amp. No sound difference plus it offers some decent surge protection as a bonus. Highly recommended unit for reasonable cost.

I have a nice integrated amp, previously had separates.  I plug all into an AQ Niagara 5000 which has a current bank so it doesn’t limit, but actually can improve dynamics.

After plugging things in, I noticed an immediate and significant reduction in the so called “noise floor”. My audition was 30 seconds before I decided I would purchase the unit.  Mind you, this was after having several other units in on audition from which I heard no benefit whatsoeer.

So, a home audition is mandatory.  Not all “conditioners” are created equal.  I not only have strong surge protection for expensive gear, but the unit absolutely made things better.  

As in all things, YMMV.

Best,

@lak 

+1

Try both options. That is the only approach that makes any sense. 

Whether this is correct or not, I don’t know, but I was told that if you plug everything into a conditioner, you run the risk of not having enough power for a loud or  dynamic passage. The same idea for using a larger gauge power cord.

I have an Audience 15 amp,  AR-6 power conditioner. Currently I’m running a digital setup. Streamer, DAC and a Hegel H390 integrated and I really can’t hear any difference at all. The AR-6 has a good electromagnetic breaker in it, so I feel safer with the Hegel plugged into it, instead of the wall.

+1 @lak 

hearing it in your system is the only way to determine what it does

This is true with everything we own in audio. What may sound just right in somebody's listening space could sound horribly wrong in another. That's why most of the advice on any audiophile must be taken with a grain of salt. I feel like I have been swimming in salt water for a long time.

Any audiophile site

I have a special 4 wire 20 amp dedicated circuit using awg 10 Copper wire 

copper gold outlets ,a common ground and a isolated insulated ground 

with its own separate dedicated buzz bar , with Solid silver contacts in the breaker 

from Germany , and a Siemens 200k surge protector,ii with a power factor filtering 

on the incoming signal , our incoming power is one street over and the signal  is super clean day or night .i plug my Coda CSIB in direct to the wall but have a dedicated custom isolation for my digital .

Originally tried using my Denafrips Thallo amp plugged into my Panamax M5300 and was initially happy (because I had no comparison). Followed a thread here that recommended a dedicated circuit.....had 2 20AMP dedicated lines installed with new Furutech outlets, and upgraded the power cords. I honestly diidn't think I'd hear much of a difference, but I have audiophile disease so why not.

Blew my face of with the difference, easily one of largest improvements my system has made. Not subtle, overt

A power conditioner is only necessary if there is noise on your mains.  If you can't hear it, you may have it but it doesn't matter.

If you can hear noise, before running to the cost of a conditioner try the simpler solutions.  Isolate the noisy equipment in the house - fridges, washing machines, anything with an electric motor (don't worry about your turntable).  If this doesn't sort it out, re-run the supply to your system so that it branches before other circuits immediately after the main fuse and with its own fuse-box.  Check the main earth and if it is poor, install a bigger one running deeper into the ground.

By now you probably won't be hearing the noise any more.

I have a Furman PST-8D Digital Power Station which both cleans up the power and is a very robust surge suppressor. Gets great reviews everywhere, I’ve got it on  both of my surround setups, as well as my 2 channel system. In my two channel system I’ve got a Furtech outlet, and to my ears the sound seems better plugged in through the Furman unit rather than directly into the outlet. 65 year old house in a large city neighborhood, might work differently in a different environment.

All my gear is plugged into a Nordost QB 8. Excellent performance. 

I wonder if you were to do a blind test to 50 people or more if people would hear a noticeable difference in sound quality.  If they would hear a difference, what would they year.  Would it suddenly grab their attention?

I wonder if you were to do a blind test to 50 people or more if people would hear a noticeable difference in sound quality.

I wonder if you were to collect 50 people whether they would all have same situation with their electrical? Of course they wouldn’t.

If we start out in different situations, and we don’t know what the differences are, what is the possible point in comparing? None. We’re just misinforming one another.

Thanks Everyone! Lots of helpful opinions and options. Now I have to get off my butt and try a few....

@erik_squires 

thanks for the link, very educational.

My Vitus SIA-025 MkII direct into wall and all my digital into AQ Niagara 3000.

I use the Furutech gold plated copper wall sockets.

My power meter is mounted directly on top of a high current surge clamp which feeds my 100 amp panel (older house). From there a have a dedicated 220 VAC circuit feeding a Richard Gray Substation Pro, 220 VAC to 120 VAC, 4,000 Watt Isolation transformer with a paralleled Richard Gray 600S choke, finally feeding a PS Audio Powerplant 12 AC regenerator. Wouldnt have it any other way as my power consistency in Southern New England is pretty bad.