Power conditioner vs use of a audio grade outlet?
If I have a $7000 Power conditioner and really nice power cables is there a need for audio grade outlet? Maybe it's a dumb question but if I didn't have this other good stuff maybe I should get an audio grade outlet.
Pangea seems to offer a good outlet for about 100 bucks.
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I like to follow the NEC and that gets violated a lot by audiophiles. 😂 I'm going to recommend you a solution that not only has a death grip, but costs < $50 and meets all the NEC and UL requirements you can think of. Outlets in homes must be tamper resistant, and that usually means a Commercial/Residential grade outlet OR if you are lucky, Hospital Grade / Tamper Resistant. I’ve yet to come across any of the so-called audio outlets which meet this requirement. Here is an affordable one that does:
Also, I’ve found it’s not just the outlet, but the plug. I recently substituted a hospital grade plug (perfectly acceptable for homes) and my goddess, the grip the combination of outlet and plug have now. I used this one because I needed a 90 degree plug to keep the cabling flat to the wall, but similar units would work too:
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IMO a high cost outlet does nothing for better sound, it is the placebo effect. Use a hospital grade 20 amp rated outlet about $10. The power conditioner does have a slight but noticeable effect on noisy lines. Some power conditioners work, others not so much. I used one in NYC, but not needed where I live now. You will have to research power conditioners to find a good unit. |
@erik_squires , the pictured outlet is a 15A outlet? Which would require a 15A breaker? |
@immatthewj - In the US, all 120V/15A duplex outlets are safe and listed for 20 A breakers. :) It’s an oddity of the NEC that, because you often have 3-4 outlets on 1 circuit they allow for 20A circuits assuming you’ll connect multiple medium draw (i.e. < 15A) devices there. Do a little digging on the web for more explanations. However, if you have a single device which requires the 20A, T shaped plug, this is the wrong outlet. As a side note, for this reason some manufacturers use exactly the same metal behind the face plate for their 15A and 20A outlets , including the T shaped hot. You can’t see it without disassembling the unit though. See if you can find some outlet comparisons on Youtube where they take them apart. |
unless you have dedicated 10ga from incoming to your stereo wall, so basic 16ga in your house ran in hundreds and hundreds of feet through conduit, romex, whatever, a single outlet fed by 16 ga will make instruments float around the room, so it sounds like a choir of heavenly angels in perfect harmony?
nah |
@erik_squires you will not get any argument from me re NEC. I am totally learning. It was just that I participated in a thread not all that long ago, ad to make the long story shorter, I was saying that I had 20A outlets and 12-2 and I was protecting them with a 15A breaker as I thought that would be safer. I was told that the breaker itself was what determined the circuit, and although I might be right that having the lower amperage breaker to be on the safe side of tripping, to be compliant my breaker and outlet should match. At least that was the way I interpreted the advice I was getting. |
You are not wrong to worry about making sure the wiring and breakers and outlets are all safe to use together. Breakers must be rated at no more amperage than the wiring can support. Non-locking, 120V/15A duplex outlets are rated for use in 20A circuits, but the socket doesn’t support the use of a 20A plug, with the rotated hot. From an audio perspective, the 20A outlets are not better. There’s no more metal or grip there than in the 15A units. It is a practical way to tell end users, usually in commercial settings, quickly what they can/cannot plug their big ass vacuum cleaner or dough mixer or whatever into. However, if you are running 20A dedicated circuits, you might as well use the 20A sockets. :) If you plan to use a dedicated audio circuit with 4 outlets though most electricians would stick to the 15A sockets. Think of it as 20A sockets are for dedicated 20A circuits with no more devices on it. It says "hey, you can plug in your table saw, and just your table saw, here! We planned for that" The 15A sockets say "You can plug in a few average appliances to us." |
@arcticdeth LOL...thanks for the laugh and common sense. |
@erik_squires , okay, thanks, I must have misunderstood something on that previous thread. I'll try to find it later & maybe paste the link to it for you? |
Clean power is important (dedicated power line, HQ outlet, no artifacts)but only part of the whole story. The biggest problem in every power supply is still the overall quality of the psu because it will define the sound of the amp/DAC etc. Take a closer look. In some cases the PS audio multiwave feature can counter balance psu quality problems by using higher frequency charging cycles for the caps. In other cases balanced power can solve problems. |
I have an older house and my wiring is only 2 conductors. I have just yesterday ( weird coincidence ordered the 20 amp leviton unit from amazon ( got the orange one for a few bucks cheaper. I am wondering if I should crawl under the house and run a ground rod to the ground part of this outlet or just put a jump over to the neg side and be done? |
Oh dear dark goddess of the undworld..... no!! 🤣 The correct thing to do is to use a GFCI outlet OR to have an electrician properly install a grounding electrode and bond it to the neutral at the service entrance. THEN and only then you run a ground to your outlets. You don’t run a separate ground, and you sure as hell don’t tie your ground to the neutral anywhere else. PS- Lacking a ground you can use GFCI for shock prevention when properly labelled, but surge protectors for the most part won’t work right. |
@erik_squires , it took a while, but I think I have finally comprehended the 15A/20A outlet subject. But
for my continuing education only, NOT because I was ever considering doing this, could you explain for me why a separate ground is prohibited? Again, this is strictly for my education on the subject. Thank you. |
The ground conductors must be bonded to neutral at the service entrance. Otherwise you risk having neutral at one voltage and ground at another with high impedance between. In the event of a short to chassis the return current to neutral (perhaps up a pole or on a transformer pad) will be through the top soil which is high impedance, preventing it from working to trip breakers and fuses, leaving a potentially lethal voltage at the chassis. By bonding ground and neutral at the service entrance you ensure a low impedance return to ground and if a short occurs increase the chance of tripping the breaker before melting a wire and starting a fire. 50 years ago netural was used as a way to ground chassis (the outer metal envelope of appliances) and experience taught us this was bad because neutral carries current, and when that current flows through a bad connection it raises the voltage on the neutral. The ground wires may go bad, but they should not be carrying current except on an unexpected short, therefore the ground conductors remain at near 0 volts at all times except when a short occurs. The formula V = I(current) * R(esistance) will help here. If I is 0, then V must be 0 even if R is high. That’s the normal state for the ground wire across your entire home. Neutral often has current anytime you turn a switch on. Say 10A. Now 10A * R means V is not zero. If you tie that to the outside of your amplifier, you now have an AC voltage you can touch! This is why 2-wire electrical construction is prohibited today. |
@erik_squires , thank you for the explanation. |
@erik_squires , on the same subject, what is it that happens to the voltage carried by the white neutral wire when it reaches the neutral/ground bar in the electrical panel that makes it no longer dangerous? |
Thank you for sticking with me on this, @erik_squires , if you could bear with me just a bit longer: if this was the ideal circuit in a utopian world of circuitry and there was NO resistance (V=5A x 0R=0V) then you are saying that although 5 amps of current are flowing through this white neutral wire, it is not dangerous because the formula dictates that 0 volts are created. In this hypothetical circuit. Correct? But you are also saying that in reality this hypothetical circuit doesn't exist, and the example you used of what does exist is v=5Ax10R=50V so the white wire (with 10R) is not only carrying current, but because of the 10R it is also carrying volts? Is that correct? (And on an aside, doesn't this mean that the old saying, "it's not the volts but the amps that kills you" is not exactly correct, as I am getting out of this that amps without R would not be dangerous?) But back to my question that prompted this explanation from you: in the real world circuit that you used for an example V=5Ax10R=50V what happens to that formula when it reaches the neutral bar via the white wire? Is it that because of the massive ground cable that ALL resistance disappears at this point and the ingredients for the 50V are gone?
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Right. This is why they sometimes connecte the chassis to the neutral. Over time they realized the 0 R expectations didn’t hold often enough to prevent life safety issues.
kind of. The issue isn’t that a good N has R on it, it’s that wiring goes bad. My home audio system has about 2V on the neutral right now. I could touch that, no problem. In a year, who knows?? :) So yes, wiring is not perfect, but a GOOD conductor has around 0.5 Ohms or less, never perfectly 0 though. Room temperature superconductors don’t exist yet. The safety issues occur when the conductor is no longer a good one. When it goes bad however is when the voltage rises to unsafe levels. There are of course also issues where N and hot are reversed. This is why those $5 3 prong testers alert for this situation as well.
That’s more like a real-world failure example. Not a real-world good circuit.
You need to understand that the 2 hots and neutral are coming from a center tapped transformer. Bonding the neutral to ground there forces the neutral to be 0V relative to ground, and the two hots are at 120V relative to it. Assuming you are at ground too, there’s 0V between you and neutral and therefore no current flow. Now, assume you take a white wire from there, and run it 100’ away. There’s no current, so it’s still at 0 V. |
Thank you, @erik_squires . |
