I’m 63. I’m not wealthy but I have a tolerant wife and I still love to pursue great sound. But I find myself increasingly reluctant to spend significant amounts on new gear. I know my hearing acuity is not as good as it used to be, but my love of music and good sound is not diminished. When considering a purchase, I find myself factoring in cost versus life expectancy (mine!) and auditory function. I’ll even have some guilt about spending my kid’s inheritance. Is something wrong with me?
jdmccall, hmmm... wasn't that a TV personality? Why does that sound familiar to me? I think it was from some TV show.
You seem perfectly normal to me - at least from your description! Who knows what you are REALLY like, as you could by anyone hiding behind a keyboard. Maybe you're some sixteen year old... ;) LOL
I suspect you are terminally normal. That's a good thing! :)
One thing not to do is to deliberate for another five years. If you're going to ramp up the rig, get to it! BTW, we conservative types often wrestle with such things. If you have been a good steward and things are in order, it's not a sin to reward one's self. When you're dead your kids won't hate you; they'll thank you for the nice stereo. :)
Oh, I reward myself plenty! But like my long-suffering better half says, "Does it ever end?". To which I sheepishly reply, under my breath..."probably not". I used to think it would end and that I would eventually arrive at that place called "audio nirvana" where peace and contentment, not to mention audio bliss, would reign. But I've gradually come to the realization that the pursuit, the journey is a lot of the fun. That and the fact that the target keeps moving, and well, you know the rest of the story.
OP, I think your feelings are pretty normal and average. (for someone with our disease) I personally feel satisfied that my system is very good considering my financial means, but I still try different amps, tweaks etc. as I can afford them just to try different flavors of good, and to mark things off of my mental "want to try" list while I am alive and able to enjoy them.
If it isn't going to make a difference in your listening habits, and you have no known system weaknesses, I'd spend money on new content.
i.e. My recent switch from SS amp and SS pre-amp back to tubes has been a restoration of prior levels of enjoyment.
i.e. my dual arm turntable project, (mix of vintage and new) addition of a dedicated mono cartridge, and willingness to properly clean my existing lps 10 at a time has made a significant difference, to both quality and enhancing enjoyment of existing content.
Donna, being home more and aware of the entire process over several months, is learning to listen like never before, and we enjoy more music together than ever.
If you look up Chapter 27 in Robert Harley's Complete Guide to High End Audio you will find the section on how to determine appropriate component budget expenditures adjusted for life expectancy. Be sure to use the current edition as the actuarial tables are updated each time. Absolutely essential if you're as serious about audio as I am. Gratuitous link to system to show how serious I am so you know this advice is legit: https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/8367
Or you could buy a used copy of Jim Smith’s excellent book on getting better sound - about ten bucks... lot’s of low to no cost things to try IF you enjoy the journey....
I have my parents Mc tube gear a handed down treasure for sure
I know my hearing acuity is not as good as it used to be, but my love of music and good sound is not diminished.
Seriously. No ones hearing acuity is as good as it used to be. Its pretty much all down hill from childhood on. Vision too. Everything, far as I can tell.
Something like 10 years ago I had a lot of chronic pain which unbeknownst to me the pain meds gradually over time triggered tinnitus. At first I thought it was problems with my system. Then when I figured out it was my own ears I was heartbroken. Took all the joy out of listening.
Because of this I went years watching movies but never listening to music. One time after this went on long enough I thought well if its not being used might as well sell it. You know the scene in Walk Hard, he’s doing drugs and all depraved things and wails out "This is a dark F-ing period!"? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yCNghEwMw0 That was me. But first before listing maybe play a record just for old times sake.
That record sounded so good I was like who are you kidding? No way you’re selling this!
Also it turned out that after going off the pain meds long enough the tinnitus was nearly gone. Plus now knowing what it is when I do hear it I simply disregard it. Minor nuisance is all it is. This whole thing about hearing loss, at some point yes you can lose it. But look at all the world’s greatest recording and mastering engineers. Are any of them teenagers? Seems to me they gain with experience more than enough to offset whatever measured hearing loss they most certainly do have.
There’s undoubtedly people here who are much younger and have much better hearing, as determined by all kinds of objective measurements. Yet you read their comments, they can’t tell one direction from another, can’t hardly hear a thing as far as I can tell.
And so in the last year or two I have upgraded to a Koetsu, a Herron, a CTS and Euphoria, ECT, PHT, HFT, TC, Mats, Unfilters, modified power supplies, added a DBA, and probably half a dozen things I’m forgetting because my brain is deteriorating with age as well. You’re 63. Me too. In November.
My system sounds so staggeringly musical there is a pretty good chance no system anywhere is more engaging, unless its equally unfiltered as mine, and that’s code you won’t even know what it means because its so double plus secret nobody talks about it.
jdmccall, I am 73, and in spite of Tinnitus, and normal hearing loss, I still enjoy music, and my system. Some recent changes (upgrades) were quite noticeable and appreciated by my old ears.
I'm still trying to find a way to afford the amp I really want, but I'm at a frustrating impasse. High quality SET 845 amps don't come cheap.
It is all about the music, so stop worrying about what equipment you're missing out on and just buy more music. Concentrate instead on using various tweaks to get you closer to the music you love.
Since you likely don't know your life expectancy, or whatever unexpected "financial surprises" are along the way: establish a minimum number for the inheritance. Set it aside and mark it as untouchable.
Everything you leave, over and above this, is a bonus for your family. And gives you the license to enjoy whatever you wish, while you can.
I am 42 y/o and have always been very conscious about money with a lot of ambivalence and analysis paralysis about spending money on audio. I have set in my mind a total system cost allowance to help ease my trepidation. Hopefully it will work.
On another note my 72 yo mom was discussing her financial planning with me, including an expected inheritance. I sincerely implore her to enjoy her life by treating herself. She does not owe me anything; quite the reverse!
Do you want the regular, barely readable decoder ring ($5,000) or do you
want the high-end, vibration isolated decoder ring ($150,000) ??
Yikes! Just the tee-shirt, please...XXtra large! (This "sheltering at home " stuff is tuff on my youthful physique. :) And much thanks to sgordon1 and ohlala and others for all the good advice!
Why are people always seeking opinions on whether their audio habits are normal or not? Normal is an iPhone and earbuds. Older and wiser is also the norm.
Also hearing ability only deteriorates over time. So that is always the norm there. Cheaper? Everybody’s financial situation is unique. It’s also normal to feel guilt if one is not entirely comfortable with ones actions.
That’s basically the game we play. Everyone will play it as they see fit. Cheers! 🤪
I’d say something is not quite right with you but I cannot know what this might be. I do it simple way. I spend a more or less fixed amount on audio upgrades per year. This might vary depending on different factors but not too much. Currently it is about $2k per year. This doesn’t mean that I will spend this amount every year, I could spend $4k on one piece and buy nothing else for two years, unless something breaks. But I cannot get something for $10k and then do no upgrades for five years. The amount is too big for me to spend it all at once unless I can finance it with 0% credit cards, moving from one card to another for five years. Now that is possible considering my high credit rating. So, theoretically, yes, I can do it, but at the moment I won’t. Not in the mood, and the system is balanced enough.
Who really cares what Robert Harley says? That whole idea is ridiculous. If we get joy from listening as well as experimenting with different gear, so be it. If you go along with him millercarbon, then maybe you ARE too serious about this hobby.
I`m 62 and know exactly how you feel. With no audio stores within 50 miles , I wont buy expensive gear without hearing them. As a industrial journeyman electrician I refuse to pay $$ for fuses ( rip off ). But I still enjoy music , and want to support audio companies.
aewarren, same here. The stranger thing is that when I tweak or upgrade the system, and then remember to listen with hearing aids, it gets better still. The upside of older and wiser is that we literally never know what we are missing. We ARE missing it (without it) in the literal sense, but NOT missing it (feeling deprived) in the emotional sense. So, all's well that ends well, eh?
In the meanwhile, one shouldn’t stress over "...what should I do? " As for the matter of inheritance, one leaves ’what it is’. Consider your spouse 1st, she’s put up with you longer (and likely more) than the kidz.
(Statistically, that’s how things usually shake out...bummer....)
Anyway....you’ve worked long and likely hard for whatever you’ve amassed. Indulge a bit....I’m not inferring that you pull a 2nd mortgage and go nutz, but feel free enough to scratch that itch ’enough’.
One can ’investigate’ what strikes ones’ curiosity without going postal over it. New, used, DIY....the options lay before you....
I’d say something is not quite right with you but I cannot know what this might be.
I'd say you're probably right. And I don't know what it might be, either. But I've got a few ideas. jakeman:
I`m 62 and know exactly how you feel. With no audio stores within 50 miles , I wont buy expensive gear without hearing them.
I'm 100 miles south of KC. That's the closest city that might have a few audio retailers left but I don't think there's much there. I used to be able to see or hear something to get stoked about. I miss that. I think the last speakers I bought after an actual audition were B&W 703's in 2003 or 4. I've been taking flyers since then. I'll probably still be playing this game as long as health and finances allow...at least on some level. Now if I was to go to an audio show, say RMAF or AXPONA.......oh my...the Mrs. better hide the check book and the credit cards. Probably best I don't go,
Go, it is so pleasantly overwhelming and lasts long enough that you really only want warm food and cold drink at the end of the day. I went for two shows within ten days this past fall. The last thing I was interested after them was some new piece of electronics, but I do not regret going for those shows.
A factor that has nothing to do with your age is your point of diminishing returns as far as your system goes. For most of us who are possibly spending a bit more than we should but not emptying out the retirement account to buy gear, you're going to get to a level where you're just trying different flavors instead of actually upgrading. For me at 60 my hearing is the worst it's ever been but I have the best system that I've ever had, and I can tell that by all of the details I'm hearing that I never paid attention to before; I'm just playing it a little louder. I've been to a few audio stores and one show and really haven't heard anything that knocked me out so much that I've had to whip out the credit card to buy it right then and there (which, if you have to charge it because you don't have the money or you have other bills to pay, that's a warning sign to hold off all by itself).
An additional thought: with today's abundance of quality equipment there's absolutely no reason to spend gobs of money on new gear if it makes you queasy thinking about it. You can put together quite a good system nowadays without taking out a second mortgage.
make smart used purchases and you won't have to worry as the value will remain fairly stable for a few years...
Hey, I never claimed to be smart! If my history is my m.o., I tend to shop for discounted, new entry-level or slightly above. I keep it years if I like it and it lasts (I've got a pair of Sennheiser HD-580's I bought new in '95.). And if I don't like it, I want it gone. (I bought a pair of Klipsch La Scala II's in late '07 and sold them in early '08.) That said, I'm much less likely to spend, say...$3000 on a pair of speakers today than I was 20 or 30 years ago. Today, I get queasy above maybe $1000, and it has nothing to do with my ability to pay. It's...I don't know what it is! I guess I'm back to the original question! The scripture in the N.T. about the fellow who planned to tear down his barns to build greater, not knowing that his soul was soon to be required of him, I'm sure that plays into my thinking. (If that gets me banned, its been a nice visit!)
On our deathbeds, I doubt any of us are going to look back and wish we spent LESS on our music or audio/video gear. I also doubt there’s much music or other enjoyable stuff once we all eventually begin our dirt naps. Enjoy it while you can and ymmv depending on your faith
I agree with jl35. In the O.T., Ecclesiastes says: “All human work is for the mouth, but the soul is never satisfied.” That was the theme of the Orson Welles’ movie “Citizen Kane”. He had everything in life, but on his deathbed, he could not remember the last time he was happy. To my mind at age 72, the issue is one of contentment. In the N.T. someone once said, “ I have learned to be content.” It has been and still is a hard lesson for me. I have a system made up of a Marantz PM 14s1 integrated amplifier and Triangle Celsius speakers with a VPI turntable, which gives me a mostly satisfying window into the hi-end, though most on this forum would say my system is mid-fi. I love music more than the gear, and maybe I am not and audiophile at all. However, I look daily on Audiogon wondering if a better amp would improve everything, but knowing that what I would be willing to spend would be a lateral move. Though affording is not the issue, very expensive gear would not be good for WAF or for my pursuit of contentment. I am sure I would have buyer’s remorse. YMMV. Epicurus once said, “Nothing is enough for the person to whom enough is too little.” I believe we all have to decide how much is enough for us in all facets of life, including audio, because perfection is unattainable in this life. Contentment is attainable. I am sure that faith plays a role. I am still trying to “learn to be content.” Back to Epicurus, “Do not spoil what you have by desiring what you have not, remember that what you now have was once among the things you only hoped for.” (I too may be banned, but it has been a fun forum.) John
Beautiful post, but I am not so wise; just enough tough to admire your composure…. For my audio journey, it is simple, whatever I has in the past, this was always not so good S. Q. not because of the electronic component brands, but because I learned to embed them correctly only in the last 2 years.... Result: I enjoy Hi-Fi for the first time in my life....I realize also most people dont know what it is..... And almost nobody explain systematically how to embed an audio system anywhere, only hints mostly from sellers of tweaks... Then people thinks that a tweak or two will suffice for embellishment....Tweaks are costly and most think about that like snake oil.... I never bought tweaks I replicate them homemade.... Then dont buy anything, thinks, experiment and have fun: this is audio....I will have 69 in few months, and my ears are old but healthy and i hears any subtle change easily not because my age dont work but because I had learn to listen....
when I'm considering a purchase, I almost always look at resale, both how easy it will be, and how much the value is likely to change. To me that determines if I can buy; not simply the cost of purchase, but the cost to own it, say 2-5 years...
OP, there is nothing wrong with what you stated. I personally don't think about equipment resale value when I purchase. My criteria is: 1. Is it better than what I currently own (sound wise) to the extent that it "justifies" purchase/upgrade? 2. Can I afford it? 3. Do I want to upgrade at this time?
I've upgraded many, many times over the years and have never, not once had any trouble selling the replaced equipment. Good quality equipment is just that. There will always be someone just like me that look to the used market to upgrade first. So, me selling my piece means that someone else can "upgrade" their equipment, just like I did.
Some important points have been made here, one that kept getting my attention is hearing loss with age. Sigh!, this really sucks. So I ask, do any of you have your hearing measured and did you add equalizers to your system to adjust for the hearing loss. Or does adding an equalizer to adjust for your hearing loss make your system sound like crap for other's listening?
I am in no hurry to have my hearing professionally checked. I know they will try to sell me hearing aids. I think I will know when it is time for that. Then, I will go to the doctor. As for new audio puchases, I suppose I'll just do what feels right. What feels right at 63 with three kids just isn't as much as what felt right at 23 and single. But like my oldest son is fond of saying, "It's all good". I'm new to this forum and no, I didn't read the rules. I suppose discussions of politics and religion are verboten, but I also suppose that merely alluding to faith is still allowed. Having said that, here's a bible quote I remind myself of from time to time: "But Godliness, with contentment, is great gain." (1 Timothy, 6:6). I find it healthy to consider that verse when I get upgrade fever, whether it's an amplifier, speakers, a vehicle...whatever.
One thing is sure though, if not now, when? Time's a-wastin'!
I mentioned redemption once on this forum and got excoriated for it by another member. Bringing anything about faith into the threads is akin to mentioning SR Orange fuses. :-)
By the way, as an old duffer myself, I'm getting mighty tired of being under house arrest because of the Communist Chinese Virus. How about you guys?
I retired 2 years ago and am now 66. I found my joy in life, again, is by going back to my roots; I let my hair grow a few inches and completely overhauled my audio system. I sold off all of the old gear and bought new gear, slowly, over 1 1/2 years. Certainly, have to consider budgeting! Each and every upgrade has been an absolute pleasure. And of course, I can't stop now, just slow down on the expenses. I'm about there with the system, so no worry. Enough said about me, I just hope that you can relate. Life is too short. You made it this far so please do enjoy what makes your heart (and ears) feel good. There is absolutely nothing wrong with rewarding yourself with good hi-fi. Your kids will be so happy that you did. I am confident they will want to see you enjoy all that you can, for as long as possible. That's a good family! And if good hi-fi is part of that recipe, then by all means, serve up a good one for yourself. Enjoy the music!
@oregonpapa , I'm frankly learning to like y'all being confined..
The air's cleaner, it's quieter overall.... One walks into that which is still open and if your timing is 'on', you get instant attention to your quest for whatever.
"Rush hour" has become 'rush minutes'; I haven't had the pleasure of so little highway traffic in so long it's still a novelty.
When we first moved into this area, people would kid us about 'mountain time'; i.e., the pace was 'leisurely'.....not the frantic 'take no prisoners' of Houston, the Bay Area, or the L.A. 'basin' (how apt) I grew up in....
It sped up in the 10+ years we've been here....but now, it's even better than before.
If I need to 'accelerate' to visit Home Despot or Low's to 'do biz', it's easy to fall back 'into groove' and whambamthankuSam....but once out the door....
It's like hitting a Wall of Bliss.....*S*
Business for us is still coming in the door, for now....we've work lined up into 1st quarter '21. We've even had a couple of 'walk-ins', a rarity for us...*G*
So....for the hoards demonstrating that they feel they're being 'held captive' and their right to assemble is keeping them from becoming ill...
Have @ it....I'll keep a safe distance.
Mass graves are disturbing, but I'd rather stay out of one.
Stay sane and Healthy....best I can wish for you...
Papa, good to hear from you and your unshakable " Communist China Virus " cry. This is one point I agree with. But we should’ve been prepared much better and acted much more quicker and decisively than we did and still do. The virus is going to be slowly suppressed but not eliminated any time soon. You don’t do elimination like that. Look at New Zealand and yes, China. I got tired of this sort of prison too but we got to continue or it will be a disaster. No amount of music can compensate for this unnatural lack of space, both physical and mental. It is getting harder. We just have to hang on. I expect serious improvements soon enough unless they screw it up, but do worry about possible second wave in fall/winter. It might happen, no-one knows for sure.
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