Old CDs and records
I just came to the very belated realization that my many years’ collection of thousands of CDs and (most likely) records are probably extinct and hence worthless. Unless I go through the arduous task of cataloguing each and every disc for resale, the mass collection is just so much junk.
I could donate the collection. But, at this point, does anyone want antiquated technology when streaming is so easy and prevalent.
Anyone have any ideas?
+1 cd318 Another Hunter S Thompson classic: "A man who procrastinates in his choosing will inevitably have his choice made for him by circumstance." So go ahead and toss them while you have the opportunity to. (Maybe I can pick through them at Value Village or The Sally Anne and grab a bargin or two...)
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Time to cue up that old quote attributed to Hunter S Thompson -
"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench - a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free and good men die like dogs.
Let's face it, half of the music business seems to be entirely devoted to endless lawsuits. |
I did say vast majority of artists always get screwed. I can't help we live in society/culture that doesn't value artists more highly. If we did, artists as a whole would have the power to alter supply/demand structure to favor themselves. As things stand only a select few have this power, this unchanged since before streaming.
Streaming isn't the issue, power structures are, until that changes, things will remain as they always have. |
So 16,000 disks. You are a collector. If you play one a day… it would take 43 years to listen to them all. How old are you? When I was working my average was 6 per week. Now that I am retired it is maybe 10 per week. I did this calculation when about when I was 65 and realized I would be lucky to listen all my albums in during the rest of my life. I think at some point it really is a lot more about collecting than listening. But it is way better than collecting door knobs or stamps, you can do something with them. Nothing wrong with collecting. |
Sorry, but the vast majority of artists have always been screwed. Up until recent years, relatively few musicians could even enter recording studios, not to mention get signed by any label, get distribution deal, etc. Today, we have home recording studios, distribution via streaming, not a lot of money to create label. The chance of an artist being heard has never been greater, thanks to streaming.
Yes, most artist receive very little streaming revenue, but more obscure artists never made any money prior to streaming, and vast majority never even got recorded. At least the more obscure artists have a much greater chance of being heard by the general public today, simply being heard must give at least some satisfaction. I know I've been exposed to far more artists via streaming, some I continue to follow. In recent years, I've attended concerts of some of these artists, live performance best avenue for generating revenue for most musicians. |
Streaming is a wonderful way to explore music but I don't think vinyl is anywhere near worthless. And while CDs might be someday, they're not worthless yet. It's an interesting question as to whether CDs will have a similar resurgence as vinyl. Probably not since it's digital, but there's still some value in CDs today. Especially ones that aren't generally on streaming services. |
I have done this with all my pop / R&B CDs. I copied just my favorite tracks to USB sticks to play in my vehicles. Driving music. In .wav format, sounds great. I was stunned at how much info these things can hold. Up to 700 songs each stick and not even close to being full. Perfect solution.
The LP is obsolete, as we speak. Happened with the advent of the Compact Disc. It's being 'propped up' by people willing to pay high prices for 'audiophile' discs and the equipment needed to play the disc. More to do with exclusivity than anything else. The problem with the CD is that, it is too good and too simple and too inexpensive, and most of all, requires minimum interaction with the audiophile. Streaming is very convenient. The difference boils down to whether or not ownership is important to you. It is to some, others not so much. But I agree with you, it is the future. Nice post. Cheers
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Then along comes Streaming. Now audiophiles seem to be saying, the standard for great streaming is, if it equals CD in sound quality. Am I missing something?
We're all getting older and the harsh practicalities of the world are difficult to argue with. All you need to do is to rip your collection to a hard drive/ USB and then play it back via a PC/laptop, or as in my case, a smartphone. Plus the fact that streaming is so so convenient and comfortable. Just set up your desired playlist and then forget about the material world for a while. The LP is never going to be obsolete, but I can't see what advantage the convenient CD has over the even more convenient streaming options. |
Depending on what I music is, I too would be interested in buying CD's. I just the last days with computer problems because a computer program I have been using, decided to upgrade. Mind you, the tool was more than fine and it is and what is added is of minimum improvement. The horrible part is the new update which has to be paid for, disabled the software I had be using and had paid full price for. I do not want to see this happen to music, which is a passion of mine and believe old school records and vinyl will forever have a place. I also stream but I like owning things as opposed to renting them. I want to have the option of quitting if I want to. |
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Regarding CDs, LPs, and streaming, I subscribe to Qobuz and Apple Music, and I also have about 10,000 LPs and maybe 6,000 CDs (adding more almost every day). And I listen to music through all those media all the time. But for different reasons. Streaming lets me hear music that I don't already own in a physical medium; CDs let me hear music that never existed on vinyl, and vinyl lets me hear music. In terms of quality, the distinctions are extremely clear. On my system, which consists of PS Audio DAC and phono preamp, Well Tempered turntable and Soundsmith cartridge and Audeze headphones, vinyl offers more life, more depth, more feeling, more musicality than anything else, by a large margin. I found that CDs and streaming offered sound that was pretty equivalent--until, that is, I recently bought a transport for the CDs. I did that cautiously, not expecting much, and I was flabbergasted by the difference it made. Now CDs are to streaming what vinyl is to CDs: more life, more dimensionality, more flow, more musicality. And that's comparing redbook CDs to hi-res streaming and with a relatively inexpensive transport (an Audiolab 6000CDT). If I switch from a track streamed in hi-res from Qobuz to the same track on a standard CD in the transport, the difference is dramatic. The convenience of streaming is very appealing, and the sound certainly isn't bad, but in my system and with my ears, there's more music to be had in physical media. |
Over the past few years I have sold or donated about 200 CDs. My impression is that values reflect the quality of the mastering as well as more obvious factors like disc condition and the performance itself. Between the Hoffman forum, the online dynamic range database, and other sources, buyers have sorted out what's good and what's not. I have 47 CDs for sale and probably half will end up going to Goodwill.
This has nothing to do with streaming. While I was culling the junk out of my collection, I bought some 500 CDs and SACDs after researching and often doing comparisons to determine which ones offered the best sound quality.
I rip everything, but it's only for backup--and to keep a copy of those CDs that I sell. |
Is Fremer moving to TAS? I’d love picking up Stereophile and not having to skip his latest review of a $100K turntable. His new site will concentrate on “affordable audio”? Yeah right. Won’t he miss his $10K cartridges? Regarding the OP, its a retirement project. Frankly, I relish the thought of retiring, wading through my collection, cataloging it and listening to stuff I hadn’t listened to in years. Labor of Love, not something to gripe about |
Send the LPs my way. Bin the CDs. Streaming is robbing artists by (sometimes) paying them a small fraction of what they used to earn from physical sales. In addition to those sellers who do pay something, he industry is rife with cheating and theft. If streamers are comfortable with that, bully for them in this material world. |
I like most would take that collection off your hands.there are many cds and records out there that you won't find on any streaming service. About 20% of my music collection is not found on any streaming service. Also the sound of vymal is so much more rich warm and natural then digital music. I have found unless you plan to spend like 15000 or more on like a LINN streaming unit you are not going to hear the quality of music your vynal will produce. .. |
Thanks for the post. Sometimes I am tempted to set up my vinyl rig again to do a comparison between LP and CD. In the meantime I will just agree to disagree with those that prefer LP. Although I do miss the album cover art and the liner notes / booklets of LP. I have also learned that there are so many factors involved in all this, that just using logic and or technical specifications and even sound quality is just plain useless. We all have perfectly strange reasons for doing and thinking as we do. You say you have access to thousands of tunes on Qobuz, and I'm sure they sound great, but, they would not belong to me. I would be renting them by the month. I would not own them, and that's important to me. For instance, to not have physical copies of the Karajan 1977 Beethoven cycle, on both LP and CD, would be unthinkable!! :) Cheers |
We are in transition… so not surprising there are various takes on the current situation. The hierarchy used to be really simple, vinyl was simply the best by a long ways at nearly all price levels, then came CD, and finally streaming. Things have radically changed. I have a good contemporary system and for the last couple years: streaming is generally superior to vinyl which is superior to CDs and playing of std Rez files. Since streaming (Qobuz) has 1/2 million high resolution albums… this means most of the time streaming is best. If the same files are being streamed as are on a CD… then it will sound the same. So, what does this mean? Streaming and vinyl are “superior” as they can sound better up to the level of investment you are willing to make in your audio system. Vinyl can best streaming with the appropriate investment, or visa versa. Vinyl still has an edge: large in the <$10 - $15K system range. But that edge becomes smaller as your system gets better. The thing that kills CDs is their restricted resolution and cost (space and $). For the price of one new CD per month you get access to nearly all music. Once you have that… there is no going back… unless for reasons of nostalgia you like fiddling with disks.
The ambiguity occurs because many folks here have varied levels of equipment, experience and skill. So someone may have a particularly great CP Player and thinks it blows away everything else, some may have terrible DACs… there are so many ways not to get the very best sound that it covers up the underlying differences in the media… the current high Rez formats are streaming and vinyl and the long run winner will be streaming.
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I participate regularly on the Talk Classical Forum, in the ‘current listening’ thread of the forum, many are posting CD’s, and quite expensive CD sets at that. I would say it is at least 50/50 CD vs streaming, perhaps CD’s more. Now, I am one of the very few who post LP’s regularly, but the members seem to enjoy seeing the LP’s I listen to daily. I would say classical is played on my rig at least 85% of the time. My vinyl simply satisfies like no other. That said, yes, I still have a nice CD collection and stream as well. (One of) My problem with streaming, and perhaps it’s just me, but I find myself easily switching to another selection mid-performance. With an LP, or even CD, I stick with what I pulled and listen throughout. I never pull an LP off the turntable, or remove a CD in the middle of a performance, but do find myself doing that with streaming. Perhaps that says more to how I view streaming vs physical media. Also, with my new CD transport, my CD’s often sound better than streaming…..again. |
Re the "extinction" of vinyl - maybe tell Michael Fremer , moving from Stereophile to the Absolute Sound, and starting up the following as well Michael Fremer Launches TrackingAngle.com
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Now I'm really confused: You hear it said a lot on Audiogon, that LPs are better and more desirable as a musical source than CDs. I disagree, but many audiophiles hold this view. They trash CD at every opportunity. They even 'apologize' if they inadvertently admit to listening to a CD. :) Then along comes Streaming. Now audiophiles seem to be saying, the standard for great streaming is, if it equals CD in sound quality. Am I missing something? Cheers
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Yes, this is a deplorable situation. More and more people are dying these days with substantial collections of books, records, paraphernalia left behind in the hands of those who cannot see anything beyond a financial return for them. Ok it’s not Citizen Kane, but it’s an issue nevertheless.
What to do?
At the very least everyone should leave clear instructions of what to do in case of their unexpected demise. It is vital to appoint someone with the legal power to do so. Not a pleasant task but as far as we know, we will all have to die one day.
This might mean sorting out legal papers in advance. The more prudent might want to downsize their collections by choice beforehand, before someone else will have to do it.
Recently a very close friend of mine died unexpectedly. He lived alone and had no close family. Now I’m facing the prospect of watching his carefully collated records and journals being ’cleared’ by his housing agency. He lived his life through his ’archives’ and the thought of what might now happen would have appalled him. He did once say that I would have to sort his stuff in case anything happened but there was never any paperwork. I didn’t even want to consider such a possibility, and now see what’s happened. This leaves me wondering about my books, records, comics too. Should I sell them or should I keep them for nostalgia’s sake? The music side seems to be heading for ripped MP3s but I don’t particularly like digital books. |
I don't believe rvpiano is making claim cd's and lp's worthless in general, rather worthless to him. I'm in pretty much same boat, well over 7k cd's and vinyl, trying to determine fair value entails so much work, daunting task. Yeah, I could sell in batches, guessing at values of many within that batch, may screw myself by greatly miscalculating a hot stamper or other unknown to me valuable record. Most of my vinyl is likely first generation releases, having been purchased back in the day, I've found a couple worth some real money in doing research on just a few.
I like the idea of giving cd's to library or some charity.
I doubt many of us streamers will ever go back to physical media, once your streaming sound quality has equaled or exceeded cd over transport, that's done with. Vinyl has better chance to remain in my system although rarely used, I have to admit vinyl does have it's unique value for me. I do need to cull the herd on vinyl, takes up far too much space, and my taste in music has changed from when most were purchased.
Following on last sentence above, a great limitation of physical media for me is my tastes in music change over time, media remains static, media I no longer play becomes obsolete. Streaming dynamic, leads me down many paths towards new and exciting music. |
@rvpiano I don't know how you decide on a daily basis what to listen to, but looking over your physical library sometimes you must decide to pull something out that you'd half forgotten about. I have no idea how (or if) the algorithms work on the major streaming sites for classical music, particularly the composers and pieces off the beaten track, but given all the extra expense from where I am now, I'm not inclined to experiment. |
Jerryg123, I’m sorry if I excited and agitated you. twoleftears, You’re absolutely right. I would have to put in a lot of work to catalog my 3000+ CDs and 2000+ records. The best solution would probably be to examine them all and select the ones I consider most valuable. |
Have you checked the very lively used CD market on Amazon and Discogs lately? There are thousands of classical CDs commanding considerable prices. It does depend on composer, composition, performers, label, but a lot of repertoire, especially the more out-of-the-way stuff, is highly desirable. Now, yes, selling them individually requires lots of work, if that's what you really want to do. My 1300 or so are staying put.
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Most public libraries lend CDs and therefore accept donations of used CDs. In my experience, the library especially appreciated donations of classical and jazz music. A library won’t value your CDs for charitable donation purposes, but ItsDeductible will provide a generic value. Thus, under the right circumstances, you can turn your unwanted CDs into a tax deduction. But even without a tax deduction, you’ll have the satisfaction of knowing that your music is widely available. Good luck! |
@rvpiano - I have no experience using these website but maybe check them out and see if you find it useful . The 2nd link has a list of companies that sell classical, possibly they buy them as well ; nothing to lose by checking them out
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