Greetings, I have been into music and audio equipment since I was a kid. It started with a hand me down system from my uncle when he bought a new system. I was around 12 or 13 at the time. He gave me a stereo receiver, a pair of speakers, a turntable, and an equalizer. At the time all I had was a "boom box" and a Walkman. This was in the early 80s and I was listening to the endings of classic rock and hard rock and the beginnings of hair bands and glam rock with a little early rap in the mix. He also gave me a few records for the turntable. I don't remember what all the components he gave me were but from what I can recall it was a Realistic receiver and turntable, Pioneer equalizer, and Fisher speakers. It was well used but he took care of his stuff and he was an electronics wizard of sorts, always at Radio Shak buying resistors and capacitors and transistors, heat sinks, wire, etc... for his various projects which included repairing and upgrading stereo equipment so I'm positive that it wasn't stock but it certainly was plenty loud enough to get me on everyone that lived in the building's bad side immediately. I was doing just fine at that with my boom box, hence the need for the Walkman but once I got that stereo hooked up in my room and started blasting Black Sabbath and Ratt, all hell broke loose. But I was hooked so I ended up moving to my uncle's place where things were more tolerant of loud music.
I'm 52 now and have had many different systems over the years. But I've never made myself much money so I haven't had the greatest equipment. I've always been limited to what I could get commercially and locally for the most part with the exception of being able to buy things from the internet in more recent years. So i have been able to do a lot more as far as shopping goes by having access to equipment from pretty much anywhere. However still being limited for funds, i haven't been able to break into the super high end stuff. I've always known that there is a realm of equipment above what I've been limited to but I've never had the money to even be interested enough to explore any of the equipment.
I still don't and I don't expect to ever have that kind of money, however I decided to take a peek at what exists for the super wealthy portion of society and I am completely floored at the prices on some of the equipment I'm seeing. I just don't understand how people can spend the kind of money that this stuff is going for. Nor do I understand what kind of people are willing to spend it. I guess not being a part of that sector of society has a lot to do with this and if I were included in that sector I may feel differently about how preposterous it seems to me. However I'm not in that class and often thankful that I'm not. I've just always had a job and made do with what I get from that, which is not much. That's partially my fault for not having more motivation but also a lot of it has to do with circumstance. These circumstances include where I'm from, my family's background, and factors of society and how I have interacted in it. That's enough material to write a book about and doesn't really have any significance here. However in any case I'm just not one of those people and can't see myself being one. So with that mindset I can't consider how it must be, nor do I wish to.
I've always had to struggle to get what I do consider decent equipment to play my music on and thought that the few things that I had managed to scrape up enough for was pretty good but none of it was or is anywhere near as expensive as even some of the least expensive offerings that I see here and in a few other places that I've visited while checking this stuff out.
I'm also positive that I have damaged my hearing over the years blasting my tunes as well as with some other things I've exposed myself to but I still feel that my hearing is decent. I don't have trouble in conversation and I can hear many things that others around me can't. I do also have Tinnitus but it's only really noticeable when it's dead quiet. I try to avoid that kind of silence and I do this by listening to music when I'm not exposed to the noise of everyday life. I live in Denver Colorado now and it's usually pretty noisy most of the time so it's easier here than when I lived in Maine. I lived there all my life before moving here in Feb of 2014 so I had to have my tunes on much more often.
My boys are grown now and I'm divorced so the struggles of that part of my life are past me and I am doing somewhat better financially being in a city with a thriving economy so I have been slowly building my system. Piece by piece when I can afford a new component or upgrade one of the ones I have and I'm at the point where I'm pretty content with what I have for the time being so I got a little bored and decided to take a peek at the next level and I see that I'm going to have to explore other interests to cure my boredom because there isn't any way that I'm moving to the next level. And from the looks of things, I don't think I would want to even if I somehow did become financially able to. The way I see it, even with things that I'm passionate about, there comes a point where the gains in whatever is being sought after become simply not worth the expense of what it takes in order to achieve them. I find this to be true and consistent with whatever endeavor it is that I might be interested in pursuing. I feel that once a certain level of quality is achieved that going any further is a waste because the expense to do so far outweighs the minimal gains that are the result and this is very accurate with audio equipment.
My system is pretty damn impressive to me and those I choose to associate with and bring into my life to the point where they get to experience it. It's taken me over 5 years to get it to the point it is at and the total I have into it isn't enough to even put a down payment on many of the items for sale here and in other places aimed at the same target group. And I like to think that even if I had tons of disposable funds that I would still be happy with my current system and be sickened by the thought of having enough to buy what is included in the next level. There's definitely some things about society that just don't add up. At least not to me. But then again, who am I...
and I am completely floored at the prices on some of the equipment I'm seeing. I just don't understand how people can spend the kind of money that this stuff is going for
I guess not being a part of that sector of society has a lot to do with this and if I were included in that sector I may feel differently about how preposterous it seems to me.
My system is pretty damn impressive to me and those I choose to associate with and bring into my life to the point where they get to experience it.
There's definitely some things about society that just don't add up. At least not to me.
I am sure that it is all relative. You didn't list your current system, but I suppose there is probably a segment of the population who would find its cost to be outrageous and who also could not understand why someone would spend as much as you have spent on it.
FTR: my system is NOT one of the 'cost-is-no-object' systems. I have some pieces that once upon a time I would have thought that I would have never laid out the kind of $ that they were going for, but there are plenty of members here who have more in their speakers than I have in the whole shebang. And I will also say that if were within my means, I would continue to upgrade;
Greetings, I have been into music and audio equipment since I was a kid. It started with a hand me down system from my uncle when he bought a new system. I was around 12 or 13 at the time. He gave me a stereo receiver, a pair of speakers, a turntable, and an equalizer. At the time all I had was a "boom box" and a Walkman. This was in the early 80s and I was listening to the endings of classic rock and hard rock and the beginnings of hair bands and glam rock with a little early rap in the mix. He also gave me a few records for the turntable. I don't remember what all the components he gave me were but from what I can recall it was a Realistic receiver and turntable, Pioneer equalizer, and Fisher speakers. It was well used but he took care of his stuff and he was an electronics wizard of sorts, always at Radio Shak buying resistors and capacitors and transistors, heat sinks, wire, etc... for his various projects which included repairing and upgrading stereo equipment so I'm positive that it wasn't stock but it certainly was plenty loud enough to get me on everyone that lived in the building's bad side immediately. I was doing just fine at that with my boom box, hence the need for the Walkman but once I got that stereo hooked up in my room and started blasting Black Sabbath and Ratt, all hell broke loose. But I was hooked so I ended up moving to my uncle's place where things were more tolerant of loud music.
I'm 52 now and have had many different systems over the years. But I've never made myself much money so I haven't had the greatest equipment. I've always been limited to what I could get commercially and locally for the most part with the exception of being able to buy things from the internet in more recent years. So i have been able to do a lot more as far as shopping goes by having access to equipment from pretty much anywhere. However still being limited for funds, i haven't been able to break into the super high end stuff. I've always known that there is a realm of equipment above what I've been limited to but I've never had the money to even be interested enough to explore any of the equipment.
I still don't and I don't expect to ever have that kind of money, however I decided to take a peek at what exists for the super wealthy portion of society and I am completely floored at the prices on some of the equipment I'm seeing. I just don't understand how people can spend the kind of money that this stuff is going for. Nor do I understand what kind of people are willing to spend it. I guess not being a part of that sector of society has a lot to do with this and if I were included in that sector I may feel differently about how preposterous it seems to me. However I'm not in that class and often thankful that I'm not. I've just always had a job and made do with what I get from that, which is not much. That's partially my fault for not having more motivation but also a lot of it has to do with circumstance. These circumstances include where I'm from, my family's background, and factors of society and how I have interacted in it. That's enough material to write a book about and doesn't really have any significance here. However in any case I'm just not one of those people and can't see myself being one. So with that mindset I can't consider how it must be, nor do I wish to.
I've always had to struggle to get what I do consider decent equipment to play my music on and thought that the few things that I had managed to scrape up enough for was pretty good but none of it was or is anywhere near as expensive as even some of the least expensive offerings that I see here and in a few other places that I've visited while checking this stuff out.
I'm also positive that I have damaged my hearing over the years blasting my tunes as well as with some other things I've exposed myself to but I still feel that my hearing is decent. I don't have trouble in conversation and I can hear many things that others around me can't. I do also have Tinnitus but it's only really noticeable when it's dead quiet. I try to avoid that kind of silence and I do this by listening to music when I'm not exposed to the noise of everyday life. I live in Denver Colorado now and it's usually pretty noisy most of the time so it's easier here than when I lived in Maine. I lived there all my life before moving here in Feb of 2014 so I had to have my tunes on much more often.
My boys are grown now and I'm divorced so the struggles of that part of my life are past me and I am doing somewhat better financially being in a city with a thriving economy so I have been slowly building my system. Piece by piece when I can afford a new component or upgrade one of the ones I have and I'm at the point where I'm pretty content with what I have for the time being so I got a little bored and decided to take a peek at the next level and I see that I'm going to have to explore other interests to cure my boredom because there isn't any way that I'm moving to the next level. And from the looks of things, I don't think I would want to even if I somehow did become financially able to. The way I see it, even with things that I'm passionate about, there comes a point where the gains in whatever is being sought after become simply not worth the expense of what it takes in order to achieve them. I find this to be true and consistent with whatever endeavor it is that I might be interested in pursuing. I feel that once a certain level of quality is achieved that going any further is a waste because the expense to do so far outweighs the minimal gains that are the result and this is very accurate with audio equipment.
My system is pretty damn impressive to me and those I choose to associate with and bring into my life to the point where they get to experience it. It's taken me over 5 years to get it to the point it is at and the total I have into it isn't enough to even put a down payment on many of the items for sale here and in other places aimed at the same target group. And I like to think that even if I had tons of disposable funds that I would still be happy with my current system and be sickened by the thought of having enough to buy what is included in the next level. There's definitely some things about society that just don't add up. At least not to me. But then again, who am I...
It is all relative. When I jumped back into audio about ten years ago, I too marveled at the money spent on even modest systems. But once your system gets to a certain level, and you get a taste of what it can do for the music, it becomes a bit of an addiction that must be fed. In my case slowly as I could afford it, for others of greater means, they can go all out. I would venture that there are many lower cost systems that outperform the cost no object systems due to the thoughtful selection of components and room design by a dedicated audiophile.
everyone likes to talk about money here and how much the best equipment will be or how much they can afford or what's the best system for the budget. This and all that, but in reality the poorest people on this planet have nothing but dollarz.
The 80/20 rule applies. You can get about 80% of the performance for about 20% of the cost if you're selective. There are seriously diminishing returns to get that remaining 20%, but if someone has the funds and/or the drive to do it, more power to them.
Audio is extremely subjective. You can spend 10 to 100 times the cost, and not necessarily like the resulting sound. There are also segments of the business who cater to the rich, and price their goods accordingly.
@r_dunne71I am with you. I totally get what you are saying. Any time someone posts: my budget is 8K for a DAC, I gasp. And then I move on. It’s just life. Some people on my street have 2 Teslas. I could scratch my head every time I walk by and wonder: why do they need 2*? How can they afford 2? Are they cooking meth? But life is too short and I have enough things to worry about and be happy about.
And what if - I didn’t have kids that cost an arm and leg, I didn’t have a sick mother who costs and an arm, if I was good at trading stocks, etc. My system would be/could be 10 times more expensive. Would it be 10 times more fun? Would it sound 10 times better? Do expansive cables make a difference? Is a 3K sub better than a $300?
This forum makes sense for people with a lot of money, but it’s not exclusive.. People with a lot of money and experience and knowledge and brains (or just pick 3) can be pretty helpful. And they always have been.
Short version: I click on posts that I can learn from. I am not on the market for 8K DACs so I won’t read, won’t comment.
*I am from a country that's famous for people's happiness determined by their neighbors' misery rather than their own wealth
The beauty of this hobby is that you can assemble a really nice system for very reasonable money if you know what you are doing. Reasonable money will have a different meaning for each individual.
I remember someone here who claimed extraordinary results with a $500 system because he had the acoustics figured out. I also see many folks with 6 digit systems in non treated rooms who keep upgrading equipment to reach their sound nirvana. It takes all kinds to tame the beast. I don't have any problems with either. However the op must feel like he got a thousand pounds off his back after that lengthy confession. Sure it was therapeutic for him.
Guess how much Elon Musk’s top of the line Sonus Faber surround sound system costs? At least the speaker part. You came to the right place to find out.
Whenever I read reviews of supercars, I never begrudge those who can afford them. Sure, It'd be nice but you won't see me going on a supercar forum decrying the costs of the cars.
Instead, I just keep on reading the reviews and imagine myself, one day, getting the chance to finally own something approaching that kind of car. It's a nice form of escapism, what with all the videos they now have.
I remember reading some advice one reviewer said about posting the images of the gear you dream about and placing them on the wall above your speakers so you can conflate the two realities: the one you have and the one you don't, and be done with it all. The reviewer even went further saying you could always upgrade the component images as time goes by and your tastes change.
@grislybutterIt's all about priorities. After hearing an 8K DAC (which I agree is quite expensive) What are you willing to give up to obtain one. If it's skipping Starbucks and making coffee at home then it makes sense. If it's not taking your kid to the doctor when they're sick then it doesn't.
To answer your question does a 3k subwoofer sound better than a $300 one probably and to each they're own. To some it sounds $2700 better to some not so much but I'm pretty sure most listeners would say "Oh yeah, it's better"
Sounds like you’re content and that’s what counts in life to me. Many people have little and are happy and many have much and are miserable. Being content is the biggest blessing I can think of.
Enjoy your system and your friends, and try to not put your stuff before the people in your life. This place is full of cautionary tails. (Tales)
@danagerI don't doubt a $3000 sub sounds better than a $300. It was just an example. Kind of a reality check - am I really missing that $2700 difference. Same with cables, which I couldn't care much about.
Regarding priorities, I think I put it in a different context: you can only prioritize discretionary spending. If you have a discretionary budget and you can choose between X and Y.
I have thought of several approaches, to figure out how to have any budget - like putting x bucks a day in a piggy bank would let me proceed with a nice upgrade plan - but that's for another thread.
For some of on the lower end of the economic spectrum like myself, it’s about priorities. I drive a 22-year-old Lexus With nearly 300 000 miles on it but my speakers are worth many multiples of what my rig is worth, and I’m just fine with that. Others may not be. So instead of $100,000 truck like the Meatheads I work in construction with own, I've got my system.
Bob buys a DAC for $250. Believes it is all you need and is astounded that anyone would spend $2500. Bill buys a DAC for $2500. Believes it's the right choice and it provides much better sound than any $250 unit, and he's astounded that anyone would spend $25,000. Dave buys a DAC for $25,000. The money is not an issue and he has a high end audiophile system. He knows the sound is significantly better than any $2500 unit and he's astounded that anyone would spend $250,000. Elon buys a DAC for $250,000. Money is not an issue and he only buys the best of everything. There must be an improvement in sound and it matches the rest of his system. Are you seeing the trend yet? Spend what you want and if you're not hurting anyone, who are we to disparage your actions? This is not the first and won't be the last thread that looks down its nose at people who spend. Until the day comes when I'm spending your money, get over it.
Sounds like you’re content and that’s what counts in life to me. Many people have little and are happy and many have much and are miserable. Being content is the biggest blessing I can think of.
He freely gave to charity, he had the common touch,
And they were grateful for his patronage and thanked him very much,
So my mind was filled with wonder when the evening headlines read:
"Richard Cory went home last night and put a bullet through his head."
But I work in his factory
And I curse the life I’m living
And I curse my poverty
And I wish that I could be,
Oh, I wish that I could be,
Oh, I wish that I could be
Richard Cory.
Richard Cory/Edwin Arlington Robinson/as adapted by Simon and Garfunkle
I have thought of several approaches, to figure out how to have any budget - like putting x bucks a day in a piggy bank would let me proceed with a nice upgrade plan - but that's for another thread.
Easy credit and bad debt is still another solution.
Every so often I actually buy some lottery tickets, and for a short time therefater I fantasize about what I’d do with a few million:
Buy a bigger house that has suitable listening room.
Hire an electrician to put in a few circuits in that room, and have them put in the way they should be put in (if I had a few million, I wouldn’t be doing it myself).
"I just don’t understand how people can spend the kind of money that this stuff is going for. Nor do I understand what kind of people are willing to spend it. "
It is called "Concentration of Wealth". Due to changes in the financial rules of this country we now have greater concentration of wealth in a tiny fraction of the population than occurred in Feudal Europe during the times of Kings.
And it is not going to change, because the Uber rich now buy control of the legislatures (laughingly called "campaign contributions") who make the tax and financial laws
Anyways, that explains the ability of a tiny fraction of the population to spend $Millions on a hi-fi system. It isn’t a lot of money for them...
You seem to be making some assumptions. There are plenty of guys who would be considered wealthy by US standards perhaps...could afford to buy anything in vulture priced audio and throw it down the drain, if they felt like it. But, they won’t ever look a moron, i.e., let some vulture have the last laugh, i.e., they know exactly how much anything is worth or not.
When you begin to understand something about science, engineering and finance, none of it should be a mystery.
It may not be considered polite in some circles, but it is a legitimate inquiry to wonder how some people have some much money to spend. There's not a crime behind every great fortune, but I'm sure there are some interesting stories. Talent, who you know, hard work, good fortune, you were born with it, etc. can explain much, but that's really a political issue. As it pertains to this forum some people swear that you have to spend large amounts of money to get great sound and others say you don't. Some people are happy with there systems and some people are always "upgrading". I'm not sure there's always a positive correlation between money spent and happiness.
I don't believe you have to spend big $$ to get good sound. And I do believe in diminishing returns. That last five percent will cost you greatly.
But I also don't have an issue with people who choose to buy the big ticket items. Some are rich, no doubt. But some just make sacrifices in other areas of their lives to afford the "good stuff". Neither scenario is any of my business. If I had more money, I'd certainly spend more of it on audio.
We need to keep in mind that nothing means anything without a point of reference. Most people that buy 50K DACs could lose a thousand dollars out of their wallets and never notice. For many others, that would be a devastating loss. It's all relative.
@curiousjim....you need a wingman or eyes behind? I’m 🤷♂️ a quarter new, the most spent on an ’puter (diy, of course) built for purpose.
I’ve a similar Lotto lean dream.....
GetUPoff the floor....lawyer, accountant, and a very select group on a burner cell.
We’ve no dependents, no major debts, spouse dislikes her stepsis who married $’s so she can squat. I’ve a niece, a nephew, and the widow of my brother who’s passed and has med issues....*pow*3X
Invest in some nice RE, there’s been some FLWs’ on and off the mrkt.
I think I am almost maybe kinda sort of close to my final setup. I’ve just started to do some research on a different DAC. Not sure yet what I’m looking for to replace the Pontus ll, but when you’re in no hurry, something will surely fall into my lap.
BTW, Love the house. It kinda reminds me of the house in Forbidden Planet. And until recently, I built my own computers too.
Surprised it hasn't been used for a s-f pic by now, but having 'said' that, you can go all jaded and yawn..... "Seen it....wouldn't wait that long for it...." *L*
I've got a pile of this 'n that....all s/s, except for a 'vintage' 6X6 manually switched Niles CPM-31 patchbay......the only object I've hoarded like Gollum with The Ring.
A digital version would cost like a new Mac, and still couldn't do what it do....
Have a s/s AV unit that's 8X8 that can loop twice but no daisy chain like the Niles can handle. Used for picking the source, whereas the Niles links the major elements....amp, pre, eq's....and the 8x8 in/out...
Relabel all, and take notes on how to 'get back' if I've gone 'wondering what if...?' *L*
Yeah I'm a believer that you can have a great stereo system for alot less of you shop around. Buying used or close outs will save you alot.Just be very careful with used equipment. I have been burned a few times on equipment costing a thousand dollars.But for less than 5,000 you can have a killer system...read ,shop ask questions and your wish will come true.
Two grave diggers had to dig a huge burial plot for the funeral coming today. The procession arrives along with a crane and a flatbed truck. The crane promptly lifts a brand new Cadillac (with the deceased behind the wheel) and lowers into the grave. With that one of the grave diggers leans to the other and admiringly says "Man that's living!".
To the OP, welcome, and do not let one or two of these posters dissuade you from posting here. Nice story, and a meaningful life lived, so far. If you are happy with your system, more power to you. Many posters here are not happy with their systems, believe me. I see mega bucks spent, and the room remains a problem, because they do not have a "dedicated" listening room, with is unfortunate. A "great" room with a moderate system can be much more engaging than a room that is filled with super expensive gear, and the room is the bottleneck. I have seen this all of my life with clients. As long as you can enjoy the music, and it seems that you are. I am known for long paragraphs, and those who are interested and welcoming with what I have to say...great. Those that are not, need not be. This is a forum of "audiophiles", equipment fanatics, and some of us are that, but music lovers too. A’gon can be a nasty place, nowhere as friendly as it once was, as you can tell by a handful of the responses. The shame of grown men, and unfortunately, the "mine is bigger than yours" theme comes out in the very way their words are spoken. If you decide to no longer post here, you will be missed. We need passionate people like you here. The enjoyment of music is worldwide, and in these times, it matters more than ever, whether you are an equipment geek, a real music lover, or both. My best, always, MrD.
Welcome, sir! I hope you can brush off the negatives, but absorb all the positives, here at Audiogon. I've made the mistake of having a bit to drink before posting, then questioning my opinionated posts later. It happens, so don't let users get you down. They'll often come back with useful or relatable information.
Mr D hit it out of the ballpark about dedicated listening rooms. Without it you are shooting darts without a target trying to achieve sound nirvana with equipment alone.
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It happens, so don't let users get you down. They'll often come back with useful or relatable information.