So a few short hours ago my Quicksilver Line Stage Preamp arrived. It will be replacing a Schiit SYS passive that was bought to be able to implement the first piece of the puzzle, the power amp, and be able to sell my cheapo integrated.
its been 20 months since the power amp arrived so today was super exciting. I hook it all up (and reverse the speaker connections as it says it inverts phase) and...
Well its every bit as clean and clear as the Schiit. Bass is a little better. The volume knob can actually be turned further to get as loud as the Schiit which was surprising. The treble has some sizzle on the very top end which I’m assuming will work itself out over time. Not much different in the bass department.
My fear going in was it’d sound the same which would add a heavy dose of buyer’s remorse ($1300 vs $50). It’s got the stock JJ 12AT7 tubes and I have a pair of NOS RCA black plates coming next week.
So what kinds of things can I expect for the first few days/weeks?
Several pairs of tubes have been rolled in and out. All good in their own way. RCA black plates, Amperex 7062 and Brimar 13D9’s.
Currently have Brimar 13D9’s in. A little noisey but nice sound. These and the Amperex are the faves so far. The Quicksilver has done everything I’d want it to do. I feel my speakers are working against me so those will be the next to change.
I’m debating going tubes with a Quicksilver phono stage + SUT. Who knows.
So tonight I had nothing to do and no where to go so I rolled in the RCA’s. Too early to say much but they do not seem have the mid-forwardness of the JJ’s. Bass seems maybe better. Me likey.
I have some Philips 7062’s coming too which should be fun. I’ll give those a couple hundred hours and then try the Philips out.My first time tube rolling and it’s fun. I get the obsession for sure.
I’ve seen Brimar 13d9’s mentioned so I’ll look for those. Anything under $50 a pair I’ll take a chance on.
Looks like your focus and prime source for listening is Vinyl. And if you’re listening to digital to screen new music then your existing setup would suffice for now. I would have probably phrase the statement ‘My vinyl setup is so much better! Ballsy sound for the most part’ in a different way instead of drawing a comparison between the two competing formats.
I firmly believe if done right, both formats can yield very satisfying musical experience. They do sound different for obvious reasons but not necessarily superior over one another as often portrayed here. Good luck with your journey!
Thanks @atmasphere it was never an issue but now it is. Bummer. As for bass, yeahm the short wall is all windows and I'd rather not have people walking by looking at the back end.
@lalitk The AppleTV/Topping is mostly for movies and AppleMusic which I use to hear new sounds and decide if its worth buying on vinyl. The only reason why I would reference it was that with the Schiit it was only somewhat less dynamic but overall pretty similar to my analog sound. Now they are pretty different which I did not expect.
At this point with limited funds I'm not looking to drop any more on the digital end. I still want to upgrade speakers, turntable, cart and phono preamp. Spending $200 on a power supply for a $120 device seems counterintuitive to me but maybe I'm ignorant.
Before this conversation turns into digital vs analog, I would look into improving digital source for a better experience. The two areas I would focus on is Apple TV and the wall wart In your DAC.
1. Get a better streamer, like a Bluesound Node 2i. Lot of folks here reported Node 2i with Ayre Codex DAC yielded great SQ. 2. If a new DAC is not an option, get a linear power supply for your D30 DAC. There are lot of good LPS available for under $200.
My vinyl setup is so much better! Ballsy sound for the most part. Would
this indicate the active preamp is exposing the DAC (Topping D30) to be
thin?
@gochurchgo
Yes. This is a common comment vis a vis analog vs digital. The Topping is great for the bucks but analog shows it up pretty fast.
You've probably had people tell you this but its a bit tricky to get good bass with the speakers on the long wall as you have in your room. It looks like the short walls are out of the question so if you want more punch move the speakers as close to the wall as you can- that will allow the room boundary to help you out on the bottom end, but you may run into troubles with the soundstage. Like I said- tricky.
So here’s a thing. I was cleaning house while streaming an album. It sounded thin and kind of sterile. I decided to throw the same album on (LP) and it was anything but.
Before, streaming music was un-dynamic and just very ho-hum. Now it’s thinner and a little more dynamic with emphasis on the upper mids and highs. My vinyl setup is so much better! Ballsy sound for the most part. Would this indicate the active preamp is exposing the DAC (Topping D30) to be thin? Digital: AppleMusic via ATV4K -> optical -> Topping D30 -> 1/2 meter Evergreen RCA to preamp.
Analog: Pro-Ject DC + 2M Blue -> LC-1 -> Lounge LCR III -> Monster RCA to preamp
Just a thought as they’ve never sounded to finally different.
@twoleftears 100% agreed and an exciting thing as well. I have a set of NOS RCA black plates here and a set of Phillips 7062 on the way. Mullards will be my next set. This is my first piece of tube gear so it’ll be fun to roll tubes.
@verdantaudio I’ll check out his site and investigate that kit. I’ve had this issue all along and the speakers and room are the only constants.
Regarding your overall placement, proximity to the sidewall should be less of an issue but the imbalance with one side reflecting and the other not has to be interesting. I had a similar scenario in a home theater and move to a smaller satellite speaker (Sunfire HRS SAT). But that was home theater and seven channel offers very different imaging.
For non-permanent room treatments, reach out to Michael Green Audio. Michael is a friend and offered me some good advice as a consumer and as I have moved into the business.
He specifically has a "Room-Tune" kit that consists of stuffed fabric panels that can be attached with thumb tacks so really not permanent. He also has a forum though it has been a little less active over MR 6 months.
He can offer a POV on where to place panels. The nice thing is for a normal room pricing is in the hundreds, not thousands
I spent another hour moving speakers around last night after my last post. I could change the sound some and even got punchier bass where they sit now. Having had zero money to spend I’ve spent a bunch of time playing with toe and front wall distance (it’s free!). I am liking where sound is now more than before.
ive looked into non permanent treatments but I don’t know where to start and there’s no “start with this” advice I could find. This is what I am working with. The red boxes are the speakers. The distance from the listener’s right speaker to the corner is 13’ or so.
As linked in a previous post I’m running Focal 807v which I think until recently was the best part of the system. I’ve not made a decision on what I want to upgrade them to as of yet, possibly: Dynaudio Special 40 Holt Hill Cionnsaile Monitor Canton Reference 9.2 DC Verdant Bambusa MG1 (Used) JA Pulsars
Its been remarked to keep the Focals and run subs but I feel like that’d be a temporary solution and I doubt I’d ever get them to blend it’d drive me bonkers.
im happy with what the Quicksilver is doing. The detail and clarity is bonkers. I had hoped it would also warm up the sound but I think the speakers might be hindering that.
Before you switch out speakers or make any other component changes, look into treating your room acoustically. Otherwise, you may be on endless upgrade path. Contact GIK, they are fairly inexpensive. I was able to treat my room under $1500, the treatments made huge improvements.
I appreciate those that find an active preamp, the end all to great sound. I have experienced passive devices for many years, but until I received my Luminous Axiom II, Walker modded unit, it was either / or for me. I am not trying to be a shill here. I am, since the purchase of the Luminous, hearing details, from my recordings, that were smeared and subdued, through some excellent, well reviewed preamps. I am also fortunate, that I enjoy my dac, and it drives all of my amplifiers wonderfully, so maybe, I am just lucky....so does my tuner, btw....
Small tweaks would be appropriate to speaker placement. I found, that a small tweak to the toeing was necessary and I ended up closer to being aimed perfectly at my eating location where with the SS I was tied slightly in front of it. Eliminating the toeing altogether shouldn’t help.
We talked a lot in another thread about new speakers. Have you picked something? What speakers are you running?
I eliminated the toe in on the speakers and moved them back 6” closer to the front wall (now at 12”).
While I like the improvements I’m looking for more warmth and I know my room is an issue but am starting to feel my speakers just aren’t going to do what I want. When I ran them before with a Sansui it had a +10db boost at 50hz (Loudness) which really brought a lot to the sound.
So the units been on for over 200 hours now usually processing some sounds for ~12 hours a day. I do notice the bass and midbass improvements as well as staging. Detail is very enhanced. The sound is very clean!
Warmup and break-in are essential with any active preamp.
You can't take it seriously for the first 20 minutes or so and it really will need an hour or two to sound right (our preamps take about an hour). If its all going well you should hear across the board improvements over any passive control.
Tubes can easily take 100 hours to burn in and start sounding like they will for most of their life. Also, don't even consider any critical listening for the first 20 minutes the unit is on. I have found with the two tube preamps I have owned that the major difference is going to be in sound stage. You should get a wider and deeper soundstage. You NOS RCAs will likely contribute to this further. If they are the RCAs I am thinking of, you aren't going to hear a lot of "warming" but should get a bit more air and especially depth in terms of staging. You might also need to tweak your speaker placement a hair, especially in terms of how they are towed in. I found moving from a SS to a tube unit I had to alter my towing about an inch.
One thing to consider is to take notes on 3 or 4 songs you know well with each preamp. Your memory, even a few minutes apart for listening sessions, is inadequate. I have heard radical differences between speakers where sounds just go away but it is tough to pinpoint it strictly from memory. When music is being played your mind is processing an infinite number of sounds and trying to recall differences is very hard.
Thanks I feel like it’s filling in nicely. I got a couple of hours to listen yesterday and the sound is warmer and punchier. Today I’m getting kinda of a “halo” around vocals that are tweeter heavy.
Enjoy !!! I am listening to my Quicksilver Mid Monos right now.... I never tire of these amps... they sound incredible for their modest price. AND they are super reliable. The value of Mike's gear is very high for the $$$. His stuff kicks a$$
take your your time and wait at least 200 hours before you think about changing a thing. And as for tube rolling, I’m currently using NOS Amperex cca holland gold pin. So far the best I’ve tried.
The NS 1000, 1000x, 5000’s as do the Soavo1 and 2 (NS-B951), need a 2db boost in the lower mids/upper bass in my room with the Loki (2nd knob from the left to 3o’clock position all others flat), to make them just right to my ear, typical of Japanese (Yamaha) balance. This can be done with the Schiit Loki, try doing that with different preamps and you’ll go broke or mad trying.
I bought a used Quicksilver preamp years ago, SN 0005. This was my first try at anything with tubes in it. It replaced and Adcom preamp. I was blown away by how much more I heard from the Quickie. I think speakers and tubes more than anything else take time to break in. I'd say give it some time and try to relax when listening. Can't hear right when your butt cheeks are clenched too tight worrying that you wasted all that cash :)
This is not surprising at all . Hopefully you can return the Quicksilver if you do prefer the shiit in the end . A better pot volume control is the Knobsound NS 05P . It has both RCA and balanced ins and outs . I once had a $7000 Marantz pre and I preferred a Plain volume pot to it . Every audiophile should get a SYS or Knobsound like pot and do a comparison to their current preamp . Thousands of dollars to turn up and down the volume is pretty crazy .
Ya as has been said give it some time to break in and yourself some time to get used to it. You don’t always notice the subtle differences right away. Things like imaging and sound field differences etc. can take time to notice. And as has been mentioned after a good while getting used to it swap the old one back in, that is when you will notice the difference’s.
There are a bunch of tubes you can use, change out the stock fuses and put Stabilant 22 on the tube pins herbies tube dampers and good feet all will improve the resolution.
I recently replaced my kit built preamp for basically a new Modwright SWL 9.0 SE Line Stage. It came with an upgraded power supply, new tube board, MWI capacitors. It is everything I hoped it would be, right out of the box.
It just keeps on getting better, so I suggest you give it plenty of break in time. Have you talked to the merchant you bought it from to see what they have to say about it? And, if necessary, what their return policy is?
I hope it works out for, a great preamp makes a big difference.
Don't be too critical right now, you puchased a nice piece of equipment from a very reputable builder and the nuances of the tube circuit well employed will show up in spades, relax and play some music and enjoy, before you know it you will forget that you were listening for differences between it and your Schiit pre. After you put a few hundred hours + on it slip the Schiit back in and you will marvel at the upgrade. Leave those stock tubes in place till they burn in and you get a feel for the sound before tube rolling. Enjoy your new pre. Enjoy the music
OP- hope it sounds better after some hours. Buyer's remorse- we've all been there at least once, I still remember the feeling all too well. Hopefully that won't be the case here. Keep us posted... Tom
@noromance thanks. I figured things will change but I guess my expectations were too high as to where they’d start from. Going from a $50 passive to tube it seemed to me o should be starting in a better position and improving from there.
I’ve only 4-5 hours on it so I’ll keep going. NOS tubes will be here Monday. Then I’ll have to decide on whether to stick it out with the JJ’s and see how they evolve or go right to the RCA’s.
My buyer’s remorse (which I get if I buy anything for myself at all) is huge right now.
also to confirm, the sheet included with it noted that it does invert phase so I swapped the - and + of both speakers. I don’t hear a difference but from what I read that’s what one should do.
Bit of a funny one that to whether you hear anything. The initial speaker cone movement in phase is outward, out of phase is inwards, your eardrum is inwards, or then outwards.???? They say the initial outwards (in phase) is better to hear the "leading edge" to the transient note. Comme ci, comme ça
Thanks. It’s a brand new unit so everything is doing it’s thing. I’m hopeful that the sound will warm up and fill in so to speak.
also to confirm, the sheet included with it noted that it does invert phase so I swapped the - and + of both speakers. I don’t hear a difference but from what I read that’s what one should do.
i guess I’m surprised that they sound more alike than different.
gochurchgo The volume knob can actually be turned further to get as loud as the Schiit which was surprising.
Wouldn’t worry about this, because the Sys has no gain, Schiit probably use a linear volume pot, (which will have better L to R tracking matching) than a logarithmic volume pot. Where the Quicksilver is almost certain the be a logarithmic volume pot because of the added active gain stage, which if it had a linear volume pot you wouldn't have been able to get passed 8-9am for loud listening.
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