New expensive power cord for amp and no change in sound?

I see a number of threads which are of a subject that I have a great interest in and when I click on it it has been deleted. I always wonder if a manufacturer has complained because their product came off badly. But then everybody's experience is different and some people might say hold on there I had a great experience with it.

Without being A/B demo'd the Cables in use with the Power Amp, it will be impossible to tell what has occurred through Cable Exchanges. 

A very good resolving system can when being subjected Cable Exchanges have very subtle changes discrrned between Cables in use. 

How the Subtle Change is assessed for an improved  or worse impact on the sound being produced is not always agreeable between those at  Demo'. 

I have heard Cables of all types as exchange cables, and know some are a good addition and some are not. 

When a group are assessing my down vote can easily be seen as another's up vote. 

Send it back and get a refund. Heck the most expensive power cord in my system was $500.00 new and boy you could tell the difference right away, was on a DAC. 

In my experience I have found that a good amplifier is least likely to benefit from a power cord upgrade assuming that one is using the correct gauge power cord to begin with.

Put 100 hours on new cable first

@cey Maybe he is embarrassed with the manufacture 😂

Yes.  I replaced all my power cords with a recommended brand, amp, and all sources and.... no diffo.  Later, I replaced th 15 amp wall receptacle with a 20 amp audio receptacle and BAM, music jumped out in force. Lesson?  I found the weakest link.

Cable advice.

1. Make sure it is proper length.

2. Make sure it is flexible, unless you are into elephant trunks.

3. Shielding is a good idea.

4. Read the marketing. Gobbly gook pufferry, run away.

5. Buy commensurate with the cost of your system.

6. Keep expectations modest.

7. Read forums with large grains of salt.

8. Don't fret with a lack of significant improvement.  Just admire your purchase; your friends surely will.

9. Don't post cable threads. 

Got my head buzzing this morning:

It could be that the $500 cable you mention may not be the best premium PC in its price class for YOUR system. Try others, with return privileges? If you have the ability to audition and return, you might try the price category above just for grins. It might just produce a permanent one?

Or, it could be that your amp, in your system, in your household wiring, in your electrical grid, at the time of day you are listening is not producing anything NOTE-worthy? Punt?

We read the term "expensive" on this forum from time to time. As a general statement, a very-good-excellent audio system will be "expensive." Well selected associated items will also be "expensive" in the course definition of monies spent. But, not "expensive" related to the overall cost of the system and the sonic (or other) benefits received IF "well selected." Divorces are expensive. Paying out of pocket for laser prostate surgery is expensive.

When a PC is included in the box when you break the seal and open it, I suppose a $15 PC "upgrade" would be expensive by comparison?

I felt my X250.8 and XA160.8 Mono Blocks sounded better with Cerious Matrix power cords than the included ones...I do find that power cords are more unpredictable than other cables and cords...Pass does include good power cord, and I use them in secondary systems...though Pass has a reputation for not recommending upscale cords and cables, many articles say they use expensive Silent Source cables and cords in their listening rooms and in shows...in an interview, Nelson Pass said he very much liked a pair of speaker cables that Ray Kimber loaned him, until he found out they were $54,000 a pair...

Two years ago I bought a Less Loss power cord and filter which was about $1800. I put it on my equipment (one piece at a time). Pass Int 60; Innuos Zenith MK 3; Ayre  QB 9 Twenty. Don’t remember if I put it on the PhoenixUSB or not. The only discernible sq difference was on the DAC and it was significant. I’m not a reviewer with good adjectives but, I the clarity and bass seemed better and worth the price paid.

You're one of the few who are not dealing with expectation bias and realize there is no objective difference between power cables and I applaud you.

I really wish all of us would try before you buy. I understand that there is not always a brick and mortar audio store near you but there are several places like The Cable co, Music Direct, and ESP power cords that will let you return the item within a time period. It is usually true that you should start upstream first. That being said. If a power cord made no difference over the stock (black test power cord) made no difference then something is wrong both with the amp and the system. I have done a ton of testing of power cords on several systems and specifically certain components. They all make a difference over the stock power cord. The question is was it good or bad according to you. I have tested several Pass amps in my system along with several other brands. The power cord always, and I mean always made a difference. From a basic AQ NRZ to high end Kubala Sosna, Nordost, ESP, and several others old and new. If it didn’t please tell us your complete system and the brand of the power cord so others won’t make this mistake or can disprove your findings. Also, As a side note. Did you break in the  power cord. Some only need about a week or two and others need about a month. A great trick is to buy the c13 adapter to turn your power cord into an extension cord. Then use it as an extension cord for your old desktop computer, DVR, or your refrigerator which all use a lot of power. After a week or two you can finish off the final break in on your audio system. 

Think about it.  Power cords make a difference if:

(1) they are too high gauge or have cheap insulating materials or are otherwise garbage;

(2) you have a device that is spitting out interference that is picked up by the cord; or

(3) the device itself is spitting out interference and using the cord as a transmitting antenna that is picked up by other equipment.

Assuming you're not using a WalMart cord to begin with, you probably have enough space between your wiring or have an amp that is not transmitting junk. So an over-protected cord is not needed.

With one exception (the phono cord), I have found that careful wire routing (leaving space, have wires cross at 90 degrees) and using balanced interconnects eliminates interference.

(The phono cord being the exception due to the weakness of its signal and position at the very top of the chain, making it extremely vulnerable.)

And, yes, I have a very resolving system and good ears.

Really? Let be logical here. Honestly I have not tried an expensive power cord in my system but all I can say is that if cables does make a difference, it would probably be in IC. Power cable would be the last chain and the least priority. We to realize that all is carrying is power and nothing else. Yes I said it.

You have to spend more than $1000 on a power cord to hear much. Hopefully your system is good enough to discern a difference.

Power design within a component may impair the ability to improve upon them with a better power cord.

Your electrical system may be pretty darn good to begin with and may not allow much improvement.

Lots of positive reinforcement affects your judgement. For the types of things you listen to may in time allow you to hear differences. A good quality recording is a way to really assess things. I have a less revealing system in a room and it doesn’t matter what speaker cables or power cords i use and it’s a very nice system

@roxy1927 It would be said if we couldn't state our opinions and experiences about specific brands here. Reviewers get enough abuse as have seen with Erin's audio corner.

It could be that the $500 cable you mention may not be the best premium PC in its price class for YOUR system

@waytoomuchstuff  , OP has stated that he upgraded FROM a $500 power cord to a power cord that cost "several thousand."

OP should have listened to the Pass Labs engineers.

Yes my amp is a stereo Pass 250.8 and the manufacturer said don’t bother. I originally had a $500 going into the Pass and replaced it with the expensive cord

@immatthewj 

Thanks for noticing.

I stand corrected.

Nope!!!!  Never happened to me.  Over the years, every single time I've changed or upgraded a power cable, whether it be for an amp or any other component, I always heard some kind of change in their sound.  Sometime the change in sound was subtle, and sometime it was more pronounced.   

davetheoilguy  and    jpwarren58 :   Completely avoiding the issue of value and the ability to discern any differences between a stock cord and an upscale one  - I applaud your efforts to focus on what can make a difference vs. whether that difference is worth the cost and can be heard by the system owner on their system. EVERY cord and component will be affected by its interaction with the surrounding environment and every element in the signal chain - including relative positioning. 

Both Cables and tube grids are excellent antennae, and grids, like styli and tone arms, are wonderful emitters/receptors of microphonics as well.  Although every system will vary, the length, shielding and relative positioning of each system element will have an impact on the final sound quality to a greater or lesser degree.  In a crowded server room, ethernet cables are almost always as short as possible and well shielded for a good reason. The same should apply to any situation where there is a signal quality concern.  How much induced noise is tolerable depends on the system components and what is necessary to achieve the desired result - be it good sound or good data.  

My only suggestion is to optimize what each user has first, then look at what might make the most obvious improvement.  E.G. - when swapping out a cable, is it the same length?  An extra foot or so of wire will make minimal difference on ANY given cable, but what you do with that extra foot may make a lot of difference.  Is it now closer to another cable, cross one at a different angle, get routed on a different path, get coiled up at all, or sit nearer or further away from a component?  This will significantly affect coupling between various elements, and for folks who feel that putting their cables on a riser to minimize coupling to the materials in the floor, being closer or further from a massive transformer in some devices' power supply may be what makes a significant difference, and whether the change in location or the change in cable shielding made the most difference can be tough to quantify.  

Bottom line - experiment freely with what you have now and optimize that.  THEN go out and search for whatever tweaks you wish to indulge yourself with, thus giving those new goodies the best possible baseline to start from.  

Most folks on this forum know it may be sub-optimal to sit your turntable on top of one of your speakers, but how many will search for room and component resonances with a test tone sweep, a good mic and their headphones (or a persistent-trace 'scope) to find the several places that are the worst, but perhaps not obviously bad locations for that turntable?  Is this a tweak?  Certainly. But the results may be just as obvious and avoidable as having a power cord that would best be routed around the other side of the equipment rack.  No two systems / listening rooms will ever be the same, and the same applies to sets of ears.  The optimal result is what pleases you most within the time and cost budget you have at the moment.                   Then, as always, take time to enjoy the music! 

You're one of the few who are not dealing with expectation bias and realize there is no objective difference between power cables and I applaud you.

@roadcykler  , if you read the OP, he states that he did hear a difference when he replaced the power cord on his preamp.

What I am interested in is whether he heard a difference when he replaced his OEM power cord with the $500 power cord.

@coleyounger1896 

No, it was a serious post.

+1 Boxcarman hit the nail on the head. You can upgrade to any power cord you wish, but you need to get the best power to the cable that you can. I'm not going to discuss power conditioners, as that is not what I am referring to.

I used several power cables in the $300 to $700 range new and used, and heard subtle improvements. I found a thread here that was talking about dedicated lines, power receptacles, etc. I decided to try some of this to see if it was real or snake oil; anyways it couldn't hurt.

I had two dedicated lines installed for about $400, one for the power amps, and one for the signal components.....and that was more of an improvement than any cord I installed.

Then I tested and upgraded the power receptacles, and WOW now we're talking. There was an even bigger improvement. Not only that, but now I could hear the difference between cables and could decide which ones provided improvements.

I tried about 11 or 12 (can't remember exactly) power receptacles over several months from Furutech, Acme, Oyaide, Cardas, Leviton, Hubbell, PS Audio, and Synergistic Research. All made at least some improvement, and others provided great improvements. Here are some thoughts

The Acme receptacle which is heavy silver over high copper brass/cryo treated/CFC treated, is much better than any base or hospital grade I tried (and a couple of the audiophile models listed above)....and well worth the $55 each. Great option for those on a tight budget.

The cream of the crop (and what I currently have installed): Furutech GTX-D(G) gold plated, Furutech GTX-D(R) rhodium plated, and the Oyaide R1 (not the SWO-XX series). My personal favorites in my system are the Furutech GTX-(G) and the Oyaide R1, but I can see how the GTX-D(R) would be preferred by those looking for more detail that they have in spades.....too much in my system, but by some accounts the the rhodium need over 200 hours to break in.

The Furutechs and Oyaide are list price between $200 to $260, but I found the GTX-D(G) and R1 for about $130 on sale, and the GTX-D(R) for $170

Your mileage may vary, but for less than the cost of a new cable, pulling dedicated lines and upgrading the receptacles provided a very noticeable improvement. It also allows me to hear the differences in cables, that I couldn't before.

@immatthewj   ,   So would I, and also if it was the exact same length, strung in the exact location across their room and compared based on the same source playing at the same level. 

Finally, changing any other characteristic of the room, including having a friend there to corroborate the findings and they, not necessarily the OP, being in a different place in the room, can have an effect on changes that in some cases may be very subtle.   

Can anyone hear the sound difference with my PC comparison video? (28 posts below), Please help! my previous post

I will be testing this soon on a Pass amp as well. So this thread is definitely interesting. What I can say is , Ive noticed quite a substantial benefit when I upgraded PC's for my streamer dac, Preamp and older Integrated Amp.

I tried and absolutely did not like Shunyata Alpha NR v2 on pass amp. Never heard the Sigma. As someone mentioned earlier in the thread, not every “upgrade”, be it a component or a cable, makes a positive difference or even a difference at all. 

And some times leaning on I told you so will start another cable war leading to deletion lol. But I told you SO…. Placebo, in this case that didn’t even work !! 
 

Cheers 

I tried and absolutely did not like Shunyata Alpha NR v2 on pass amp.

@audphile1  , I don't have a Pass and that power cord is out of my league, but from your statement above, I assume that you did hear a difference?  What was it that you heard that you did not like?

Everything matters! Is it cliche? Yes, but true  A dedicated line or 2(preferable) with upgraded receptacle(s) are a must to set the foundation. I don't want to comment on specific brands but if not able to have a full loom(Ic's/Speaker cable/Pc's) Keep the same brand of Ic's and all Pc's should be from the same company.

I don't notice anything specific as sounding different from the two video time marks. What do you hear? Have you tried measuring the difference? I guess it's just me but that's what I'd do because I'm a curious dude. Every time I've been pretty sure I was hearing something, I found I could measure it and come to a better understanding of precisely what I was perceiving. Usually it shows up mainly a subtle shift in frequency response. Not being familiar with that song or your room I'm not picking up on anything. 

@immatthewj extremely bright and fatiguing. I couldn’t tolerate normal volume for more than few songs. My system is smooth and non fatiguing and I can listen for hours. But not with the Alpha NR v2. I had two if these at some point, one on Pass XP-22 preamp and one on Pass XA-30.8 amp and the amp just turned unlistenable. I gave it a full 200hrs and sent it back to Music Direct. I used to own older Taipan and Python Alpha Helix cords and they were open sounding but never bright.
So like I said, not every upgrade brings positive results.

And…no placebo here. I’ve gone thru enough power cables, cheap and expensive , with both good and bad results to know these cables matter. Take it for what it’s worth. My experience. My ears. 

And…no placebo here. I’ve gone thru enough power cables, cheap and expensive , with both good and bad results to know these cables matter. Take it for what it’s worth. My experience. My ears. 

Obviously synergy plays into the selection of the right power cord.  Any cheaper cables that you did like?

The price tag does not always reflect performance. If this is a major brand cord then more than half of the selling price can be dealer and distributor markup and the rest of the cord could be sourced from major manufacturers such as Belkin or Eaton (who make excellent stuff to begin with). Put it in a fancy package and it's sold as "audiophile". As with everything... there's no shame if you don't hear a difference.

Yep,

Now that we have solved the power cord dilemma, let’s discuss something less controversial..like “climate change “.

"We’ll not really PC are BS."

- really, how does your system sound without one?

"We’ll not really PC are BS."

- really, how does your system sound without one?

Probably similar to an acoustically well treated room that has no system in it.

@immatthewj absolutely! My pass amps are rocking audience forte f3 now (under $200 each). I also like TWL Seven Plus. Did not like AQ Hurricane, Tornado and Thunder. Loved Nordosr Frey 2. Furutech was really good as well. Didn’t like Cardas and Acoustic Zen (too warm with pass gear).
Like you said it’s all about the synergy and personal preference for sound. 

vonhelmholtz

911 posts

05-07-2024 at 07:21pm 

Now that we have solved the power cord dilemma, let’s discuss something less controversial..like “climate change “.
 

LOL @vonhelmholtz 

Thanks, @audphile1 , I am taking notes.

👍

Fifteen years ago I spent $10k on amplifiers and the dealer loaned me a $1k power cord and a $4k power cord. I conducted a single blind study with a 3 x 2 experimental design (stock pc, $1k pc, $4k pc) x (wall power with hospital grade connectors, isolation transformer with hospital grade connectors).

Results were clear: with wall power, the system (analogue, ESL) sounded better with more expensive cords. With the isolation transformer all cords sounded the same.

Conclusion: more expensive cords can reduce electrical grunge on the line, which can affect even a good amplifier. I infer that if your power is already pretty clean, expensive cords may not do much for you.

YMMV