"Expectations create reality. If you expect some thing to make a certain kind of change, then thatʻs what youʻre looking for and will likely get."
This is, of course, only partially true...we DON'T always get what we expect.
I recognize that I - like most Homo sapiens sapiens - am subject to expectation bias, but I am equally confident that the bias does not define my reality. I have owned a DAC, a tube buffer, a turntable, and a high-end EQ that I removed from my system due to sonic shortcomings within a few months of purchasing them. I certainly expected them to sound great or I wouldn't have purchased them. In two of those four examples, I returned to the previous piece of equipment I was using, and in the other two I just removed them from my chain, so I didn't replace them simply because I "expected" some new toy to sound even better.
So I was not "bound" to loving gear I owned just because I expected it to be great.
Nevertheless, as I mentioned several posts up, when I added the Pachanko Constellation Mini SE server with Stellar power supply to my system (running Roon as configured by Pachanko), I was thrilled by the improvement. It was far greater than I expected - probably the greatest single-component improvement I've ever made - and my delight has continued.
While I have a physics background, I cannot explain with confidence why a server should deliver such sonic gains (especially as I was also running Roon with my previous components). However, my experience mirrors that of others who have installed high-end, purpose-built music servers: somehow, pre-DAC digital componentry does make a difference.
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@mclinnguy
I was unfamiliar with Grimm. Easy to find on Google. They are twice the price of the D &D 8c and 50% more than a fully built and delivered Linkwitz LX521 system. If youʻre going to search out the Grimm, you owe it to yourself to hear the D&D 8c and LX521 systems as well.
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@russbutton
Iʻd run a pair of the Dutch & Dutch 8c
Well I am in agreement with you there. There is something appealing and liberating about the Grimm MU1 & LS1 setup as well, I hope to hear it one day.
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@mclinnguy You must be looking at a very old photo of my rig. The Linn left me years ago. Now running a Rega P5. Iʻm soon to sell off the record collection and table. Trying to simplify my life. I do hear differences between vinyl and digital, but theyʻre not big enough for me to care anymore.
If I were starting over, Iʻd run a pair of the Dutch & Dutch 8c and my Linux PC. No fooling with exotic cables, interconnects, etc. But Iʻm fine with my Linkwitz Orions. They still kill it on voices and piano.
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@amitb I’ve read good things about many of these products. I don’t allocate audiophile amounts of change to my system, but I have a ver satisfying sound. I got a used set of NAD Master’s series M50 and M51 as a streamer/DAC combo. My M50 is old and only the streamer works now, but an M50.2 would provide the features you want with the awesome BluOS ecosystem. Good luck!
M50/51
Belles Soloist integrated
Vandersteen 2CE,
upgrading to Quattro Cloth + Ayre 7AXE
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@russbutton
You do realize your LP12 is the same as a Thorens. I can find one on eBay for $165. Vinyl is vinyl.
But hey, Expectations create reality. If you expect some thing to make a certain kind of change, then thatʻs what youʻre looking for and will likely get.
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I use the Melco N 100 server and I purchased the their Optical Ripper, along with another Melco storage device. The optical ripper can be used to spin CDs as well if combined with the N100.
The Melco doesn’t contain a DAC and I didn’t quite get what the OP was saying about the relationship he seeks between his DAC and his server. If I was him I would get combine the Melco with an SACD player that has inputs to allow it to be used as a DAC.
As usual the OP is asking about a storage solution and is being bombarded with responses that he should be exclusively using a streaming service in its place. I think a more helpful response would be along the lines of “I prefer to use a streaming service, but to respond to your question, this suggestion might be tried…”
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@mgrif104 Expectations create reality. If you expect some thing to make a certain kind of change, then thatʻs what youʻre looking for and will likely get.
Computers process and transfer data. Bits is bits. The sound all depends on your DAC. Regardless of the source, whether itʻs a streamer or a cheap PC, the same data comes down the wire. There are reclockers you can put between a PC and a DAC, but Iʻve never heard one that made a difference.
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@russbutton
yes, most of us realize that these streamers are Linux machines. But there is so much more to it than that. I started with an optimized PC, auditioned an Aurender N100H years ago which trounced it sonically. I’ve since moved up from the Aurender. If you’re good with your system as is - great! Some of us sought (and found) something signficantly better. Indeed, I found nearly as much difference in streamer audio quality as in the difference between DACs.
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You realize of course, that all these megabuck streamers are just Linux machines with a dedicated interface. I paid $130 for an 8 gb memory tiny PC from Amazon, with a 128 GB flash drive. I installed Ubuntu Linux on it and hung an external drive off of a USB port. I run JRiver for about $30. Ubuntu offers a free music player called "Clementine", which looks like iTunes.
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I've ripped 2864 cds (according to foobar) and it took a really long time. A really, really long time. Years. If you're heavy into classical, you do a lot of editing.
I keep SACDs separate and play them with a Sony BluRay (UBP-X1100ES) player over HDMI (close to I2S resolution) to a Simaudio Moon 390. They sound good.
The 390 is also a streamer and sounds great and the interface keeps getting better, so I'm happy.
Good luck!
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Nobody mentioned Rose which has a couple of nice options.
SACD? No straightforward (legal) solution...
Only Qobuz? I still prefer my local library, but why not have both?
Last, I believe in the 2 PC setup with a minimalist and quiet endpoint. And while I have all diy based on standard components but powered by linear power supplies, I would just use a normal PC (with HQPlayer and Roon?) as a server and a Sonore endpoint if I would go commercial. Use an EtherRegen to quiet down the network between the 2 components. Simple and cost effective but on same level as insanely priced Gucci stuff
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I had a Roon server and replaced it with the Esoteric N-05 and that’s what started my Streamer merry go round. I will keep my Evo432 Aeon Mk iii until I find something more than marginally better.
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Surprised nobody has recommended a Roon server. I personally love it's metadata management and deep search capabilities. It also fully integrates you library with Tidal and Quobuz, so you can have the best of both worlds. Have a look if you are not familiar.
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I have a collection of 4000+ CDs that I ripped to uncompressed FLAC. I'm going to focus on the ripping process because you may not have realized how many hours it will take to rip your library.
My main goal was to rip as quickly as I could with the best quality possible. I used a ASUS gaming laptop equipped with an external CD drive I built from a Plextor PlexWriter PX-891SAF which is a robust drive that will rip CDs at the fastest rate possible. I used an OWC Mercury enclosure. The difference in ripping time was multiple times faster than using the internal CD drive of my computer.
The software I used was dB Poweramp which has a few important features. You can rip to uncompressed FLAC which is the closest thing you can get to a standard WAV file but FLAC allows you to tie metadata to your ripped files. The uncompressed FLAC files are large but hard drive space is cheap. By using no compression the computer/player that plays the file doesn't have to work as hard. I don't know if this has any effect on SQ but I quickly determined that I was only going to do this once and I wanted to ensure that I had the best quality file I could get. The program will also decode HDCD files and rip them to a higher bit level (you have to go into settings and click the option). It automatically retreives the album cover and names the songs so your folder has all of this information. It rips to a hard drive which you can then back up to another drive or two for safety. I promise you, after spending hundreds of hours ripping your CDs you will get very paranoid about losing that data. And lastly, the program checks your rip for accuracy against its database and if it isn't 100% accurate it will note that for each song so you can rerip if you so desire.
The PC/Plextor system will literally save you hundreds of hours of ripping time. I don't know how fast a server/ripper will do a CD but I'm pretty sure that it is much slower than the Plextor. I have the computer and CD drive set up on a small table by my listening chair and I ripped a stack of CDs every time I sat down and listened to music. It took me a couple years to get through my whole collection. If you have a server/ripper positioned with your other audio components, getting up to change the CD in the ripper is going to get old real fast.
Once you have your ripped files on a hard drive you have complete flexibliity for how you want to play them. Depending on how much flexibility you want you may not even need a server. I plan to get an Eversolo DMP 8 which can use an internal memory card for ripped files (I will transfer these from the hard drive). Since I don't need to access my stored files in other rooms I think this will be all I need to do without the complexity of having a server.
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+1 on the Aurender ACS 100. Excellent unit, built-in CD for ripping and encompasses a very good streamer. Easy to install and excellent library management. I have 14TB (max 16 TB) of music loaded and no hick ups. If I remember correctly, that is close to 20,000 albums. Large screen to display album artwork and track being played. Also, it is reasonably priced and they have excellent support team for answering questions. Good luck.
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vinylshadow
24/96 sounds worse than 16/44 if the original music was recorded in 16/44, which is nearly always.
Even semi-pro recording studios have been recording at better than 16/44 for years and years. 16/44 is really just a consumer format.
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24/96 sounds worse than 16/44 if the original music was recorded in 16/44, which is nearly always.
Upsampling music almost never sounds better than Redbook.
Okay, but what about if the music was recorded in analog? I would imagine most of the OP's collection was recorded before the late 70's.
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Like others have mentioned here, once you get a good streamer and subscribe to Qobuz/Tidal you may feel like you don't "need to digitize and collect" anything. 8 years ago my old exasound streamer and DAC sounded better than my Linn CD player, so I sold it. My newer streamer sounds much better than the previous one. The last time I compared a rip of a CD stored on the internal drive of my server/streamer I could not distinguish it from streaming Qobuz.
Qobuz has hundreds of hi-res jazz albums. 30 versions of Kind of Blue alone. You will like it.
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What jonwolfpell just said.
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Amit: as a few others have said, you just described what the Innuos Zenith Mark III does really well. It’s easy to use, sounds great & its app on your phone or tablet is easy to use & works well. I got it for all the same needs you have. Only sad part is my beautiful old but still very good turntable sees very little action now.
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Keep your current streamer and get yourself a Brennan B3. I have the Brennan B2 and have all of my 300+ cd's ripped to it. I too am new to streaming (held out as long as I could) and LOVE it! I have the Eversolo DMP-A6 Master and LOVE it! I have a Denafrips Pontus 12th DAC and have my Eversolo and Brennan connected via USB and Lifatec Toslink (HIGHLY recommend the Lifatec cable) respectively to the Pontus and love the flexibility to switch between the 2. It's perfect! I have the best of both worlds...
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24/96 sounds worse than 16/44 if the original music was recorded in 16/44, which is nearly always.
Upsampling music almost never sounds better than Redbook.
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I'm curious about something called the Brennan B3. From their website:
"Martin Brennan is a Cambridge University physicist. He has designed more than twenty silicon chips and written over a million lines of code.
Martin designed and built his first audio amplifier as a teenager.
He designed the JB7 in 2007 as a better way to enjoy his CD collection.
B2 superceded JB7 - adding internet and Bluetooth. B3 is the latest and fastest generation of player."
So he certainly has the bona fides. Anyone actually have hands on experience with one of these?
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@amitb
What’s your budget? You can go from really cheap to holy cow, I can buy a car for that.
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Frankly it is only worth ripping if something is not available in streaming. Rather than ripping 16/44 CD you can have 24/96 stream on Tidal... It has been a long time since I listened to any of my ripped CDs.
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Read the whatsbestforum.com posts on the Pachanko Constellation server/players. Some people have compared them favorably to the Taiko Extreme, but at a tiny fraction of the price. I have the Pachanko Constellation Mini SE, and it was a massive upgrade over my NAD M50.2. I got it with the Stellar external power supply for about $4k total.
Pachanko's secret weapon is their CEO, however. He responds personally to owner questions via WhatsApp and will personally configure systems remotely upon request.
The Constellation doesn't have a ripper, but it's very easy to upload files to it from a computer.
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I just posted a Sonic Transport server for sale if you might be interested in that.
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I don’t know the Audiotroy person but I do know he has taken a lot of abuse on these forums. I have a 432Evo Aeon Mkiii and it is an exceptional streamer/Roon Core. I have owned the Inuous Zentih, Antipodes S30/S60, Sonare Signature Rendu, Esoteric N-05XD and lastly the TotalDac D1. Good luck with your search…
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I have to echo what others have said about trying out the streaming services. I ripped a few hundred discs at one point and it really gets old even when the device has a pretty easy ripping feature. Decided to keep my CD stash and try streaming lossless music from Tidal and Qobuz which I found to both be really great. Adding Roon as a user interface helped as it has very approachable library management compared to everything else I tried.
I picked up a new transport and I still play a disc once in a while. A lot less often than I thought I would though. It's usually when I have something special like a DCC gold or XRCD release. I feel like those just sound better from the original disc but I might be crazy.
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Zenith MKIII will be perfect for your setup. Love my Zenith.
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“The ability to effortlessly digitize the CDs, and then properly catalog, search and listen to my digitized music is the end goal.”
I chose Aurender ACS100 for its superb library management and expandable storage. I wanted to steer clear of laptop/desktop in my day to day use. There isn’t anything else that comes close to what Aurender offers in terms of ease and convenience. All you need is a iPad to run ACS Manager app. App experience is the most critical part of managing and curating digital content and there is none better than ACS Manager. Take a test drive and decide for yourself.
I recently tried Zen Mini with 1TB storage to see how it stacks against my ACS100. All it took was few hours of ripping and playback with Zen to see how much superior my ACS100 was as a content server.
I am not aware of any server that will also play SACD discs. These are two different techs. I suggest you hang on to Jay’s Audio player for SACD playback.
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I'm new to streaming but I think it's the way to go. I still play my CDs but spend more time streaming.
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Mr. Prentice you have forgotten one the greatest advantages of building a ripped library:
most people are visual and by seeing a library you are reminded about the artists you like.
so with a great server you have access to your existing cd library plus streaming win win.
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I ripped all my CDs ten to fifteen years ago. Lots of work and I haven’t listened to one of them in several years. In my system and in those assembled at many different levels of investment streaming from Qobuz (or Tidal) is indistinguishable from the physical disk or a locally stored file. For $14.99 / month you have access to over ten million albums of which half a million are of greater then red book resolution. I would find a great streamer (I recommend Aurrender)… get it in your system… then if you find a few of your CDs are not available from your streaming service… just rip those and store them on your streamer. But after you have access to all this high quality content, don’t be surprised if you don’t start exploring new music or different performances and leave the old stuff behind.
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Look at a 432evo Aeon highest performance server out there for the money, we have found.
very advanced design separate low noise cpu, of its own electrically isolated motherboard, electrically isolated clock board and usb card, two external sbooster power supplies, custom OS designed to maximize sound quality.
We tested this server against a 27k Innous Statement next gen. and found the much less expensive Aeon to sound just as good.
also tested vs a 12k Aurender where we sounded better.
fully modular hardware allows for future improvements as better hardware becomes available
Dave and Troy
Audio Intellect NJ
432evo dealer
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You need something to rip your CDs, a means of storing those ripped files, backup storage so you don't lose all those ripped files if the hard drive storing the files dies, and a server/dac to play back the files. These can be combined in one or two units. I don't have any specific recommendations. I own a Naim ND 555 server and their UnitiCore ripper/NAS (network attached storage); I also own two back up storage hard drives. All of the storage drives are 8 TB units.
I have about 5,000 CDs ripped this way. I don't know how anyone with a large collection easily accesses the collection without a server. With just a sliver of information about a CD, I can find it by searching the meta-data that is also stored with the music files.
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I have an Innuos Zenith Mk III that is well regarded and has excellent user software. It also has a CD slot for ripping, but not playing, CD's to the internal drive.
My suggestion however is to keep your CD player, get the best Innuos unit that you can afford, a subscription to Qobuz, and skip ripping all of your CD's. Use that for awhile and see if you are missing anything. I have all my CD's ripped and stored on mine, but rarely use them. Quite frequently a newer or better version of a recording is available on Qobuz.
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