McIntosh -- good for show, not for sound, says dealer

What are you talking about laoman? It doesn't need to be in any quotes at all. Putting the word done in italics is perfectly fine.

@jjss49 My apologies....

Roxy54 "but I’m getting pretty good at it." Actually you are not, as "done" should be in inverted commas as you are quoting it.

@szore

i posted earlier my sense of the mcintosh sound, didn’t you see it?

i also posted in another earlier post here about excellent youtube videos by audio excellence in canada on the brand, a rich treasure trove of info on mcintosh gear and their sound

so, not sure a 3rd request was needed -- you just need to patiently read what has been already posted... (just ignore some of the petty meaningless threads with laoman and others, they are admittedly snippy and unpleasant, sorry)

To my ears, the sound is very grounded, the opposite of "thin" or analytical, not the very last word in resolution, but still very good. I think that it has gravitas that other amps that I have owned didn't have, and what I like to call "architecture". By that I mean that the picture is big, tall and solid. Imaging is as good as the source and preamplifier allow. I will also say that compared to ARC as an example, and some other amps i have owned, it is not super fast sounding, although it's not at all sluggish, and it's a bit on the dark side not a lot, which I don't mind at all. 

All of that said, it is very good at getting out of the way and letting the music play.

Getting back to my question, can anyone describe the McIntosh 'house sound'? 3rd request.....

Perhaps we need Starfleet’s universal translator.  It can translate over 30,000 different languages😂😂

@laoman is just an angry little man from an angry little country. He should stick to websites in the Father Land. 

OH BS, Navajo, code talker!! I can communicate to a 100 different cultures. So what. Brag somewhere else.. Talk is cheap. Teha' te to'. I like peanuts and I have and ingrown toenail. Big deal. How about Gaelic?

Regards

@roxy54

you friggin' kill me 🤣🤣🤣🤣

laoman, I think that you meant done. Sorry, I only speak one language fluently, but I'm getting pretty good at it.

jjss49, I am doing with responding to your nonsense. Have a nice life.

Mercy the stuff you read from the uninformed and jealous. It’s one thing to not care for a brand, but to call great gear that has been around for as long as Mcintosh "MidFi" gear or elude that by using it your not in the audiophile community is as funny as saying "something else" will some how propel you there. I can tell you this it’s sure not my way of thinking.

It’s never been the gear, it’s the ability to get the gear to do what you need. Mcintosh just happens to be an avenue a lot of folks world wide chose. Why pick gear because what someone else thinks. There is a lot of cars I don’t know about, doesn’t mean I don’t like them.. I think in most cases, it’s I can’t afford them, so I don’t like them.

If room acoustics are 50% of the sound how is the gear the other 50%. That 10-25% is being forced down a lot of peoples throat by choice as if it was 100% of the answer to better sound and it’s not. Just like the gear quest, or the cable quest, or the speaker quest. CRAP make up your mind and go from there. What on earth changes folks minds to change types of speakers or gear or color of paint in the room?

Just askin’

I can make just about anything work. I like Mac and Cary, and GR and Farm Girl, I don’t have to put  gear down to make me feel better about the gear I’m using.

Regards.

@laoman

i do hope you approach your real life rather differently than how you handle yourself here, if not, i would only say i feel sorry for you, and for all who those need to deal with you... wish you good luck dude, somehow i feel you will need some to see your way through

"Nevertheless, to consider the McIntosh solely on looks to give others an impression of the owner being sophisticated really cracks me up."

That's just one of the silly myths of McIntosh lore.

Just watched the video to see what’s the fuss all about after noticing that this thread was getting very popular, 6 pages and going strong.

Not much to say here but the guy in the video is hilarious. I have to admit that for some people, the hifi needs to look good apart from sounding good. Nevertheless, to consider the McIntosh solely on looks to give others an impression of the owner being sophisticated really cracks me up.

I didn't say it was an insult, I just wanted to clarify what you said. As far as Jay is concerned, I have zero interest in his opinions of audio gear. His opinion of McIntosh gear is one of the reasons why.

Yes, I certainly did and that is correct. How is that an insult? By the way, did you watch Jay’s youtube? - talk about damning with faint praise. He called it "mid range", a comment with which I concur.

Actually laoman, you said that it did not sound good and was not good value for money. 

jjss49. Ah that explains it. English is your third language

. Else you would comprehend that not one phrase I wrote is insulting to McIntosh. I said I did not like it and would never buy it. How is that insulting? You on the other hand.......

I’m not sure if this follow up video by OCD Mike’s friend and fellow Audiogon contributor was posted.

Shows the ignorance of the dealer. I will say Mac can sound amazing with the right speakers and not so great with others.

They sound as good or better than anything with Klipsch and other horn loaded speakers, also with B&W diamonds, raidho, marten, spendor D series.

Not so great pairings would be smooth brit mons, the new wave of big box speakers like wharfdale and KLH,  Audio note or DeVore.  

@laoman - from reading your posts, I'd have never guessed that English is a second language - you're much better at it than most native-speakers!

As for spelling, I can't believe that anybody on the Internet can take anybody else to task for spelling. Few and far between are the posts and messages I've seen over the decades with even an attempt at correct spelling, and I'm talking about native English speakers. I like correct spelling and wish more people did it, but I quit expecting it a long time ago! 🤣

@laoman

since you asked, i speak three languages fluently but i don’t feel the need to advertise it

and i suspect i am the same race you are

you want to play here, grow some thicker skin

@roxy54, long time contributor, good guy, makes joke about spelling error, that is because you repeatedly insult the brand of gear discussed here, bring wrong facts (international sales and following of the brand, where @stereo5 corrected you), then you keep arguing, being defensive, have to put people down every time... @roxy54 makes joke about another person misspelling too, a guy who owns mac gear... he is just poking a little fun, what is the big deal to you?

i then make a little post, say i enjoy @roxy54 being silly, funny, i have a laugh, talk about spelling bee at his house, then you protest to mod and get that post removed, your name not even mentioned .. grow up, buddy

stop being a child, deal with your own sense of inadequacy elsewhere, don’t wear it on your sleeve - this is an anonymous forum, but respect is still earned, and cannot be demanded, do you see the difference?

you want people to be nice to you, you start by being nice yourself ...

juvenile fools exist in all cultures races nationalities, as your case proves - your posts, just on THIS thread alone

jjss49, as English is my second language, I am curious to see how you would spell in Lao. Thai, French and German, in all of which I am completely fluent. Do you even speak another language?

 

@thecarpathian

Thank you. As I stated, I certainly do not hate McIntosh. Why on earth would anyone hate any product unless you bought it and were then extremely disappointed? I assume those that buy it are for the most part not disappointed.

I would ask other posters one question though, why does this company feel the need to sell merchandise? Do you not find this ridiculous and demeaning? Would you believe they even sell McIntosh covid masks?

 

Really pathetic. Because someone tells the truth about your beloved McIntosh some of you get defensive.

 

"suggest you try to read more, and post less" Strong suggestion that you post something of some worth.

 

What a pathetic little reply. It must have taken all your brain cells to come up with that. By they way before you criticise my spelling, look at your punctuation. There should be a semi colon after "laoman".

 

"I would venture to guess 80% of the members here are North Americans. "

 

So what? Are you suggesting that people of other nationalities do not have the right to post here?

 

Please do say many things. Is anything I said inaccurate? Is Macintosh as popular in Asia and Europe as the US? Are the only posters who post on this site of US Nationality? Do some Americans have a loyalty towards the Macintosh brand? Are any of my rhetorical questions wrong?

 

What most of you are forgetting is that this site does not have just Americans posting. Macintosh is far less purchased outside of America. It appears that some Americans have a loyalty towards the brand; that’s fine.

 

As I stated in a previous post in this thread, Macintosh is not for me; it would be pretty close to the bottom in the line of hi fi equipment I would consider.

 

I do not hate Macintosh. It is your money; if you want to spend your money on Macintosh, go right ahead. Personally I would never buy anything from Macintosh because in my opinion there is far better sounding and better built equipment available for far less money.

However Macintosh does appeal to a certain demographic; my friends and I call it the Harley Davidson of hi fi

we can’t see you in person, but we can see the sorry, argumentative, defensive attitude you bring 

jjss49, as English is my second language, I am curious to see how you would spell in Lao. Thai, French and German, in all of which I am completely fluent. Do you even speak another language?

I recently purchased an Audio by Van Alstine VISION SET 400 AMPLIFIER for two grand that sounds better than the two solid-state Mac's I've owned previously. Two thousand dollars is a fraction of the cost of these Mac's. Yes, it's a utilitarian black box, no meters and doesn't need a hand truck to bring into your sound room, but it sounds more like music to my ears for a fraction of the price.

Now, on the other side, I have a  MAC MC-275 IV that is magical in the way tube amps can be. I wouldn't part with it unless I was being held hostage at gunpoint, and to be honest I might not let it go and take the bullet. Now of course that's blatant bullshit, however I might die for Angie Harman, but I digress.  It gets to the point of how good a MAC 275 sounds but not their solid state for lots of money.

@ rimo

Way back in 2002 I purchased an MR-71 FM tube tuner from Audio Classics that was performance certified by you. It continues to work flawlessly to this day and is easily one of the most satisfying audio-related purchases I have ever made.

Thank you for your brilliant contributions to modern FM tuner performance.   

@rimo

thank you for your post... useful historical perspective, reminders about respect, enjoyment, how short life is, real music, the power of positivity

@roxy54

hey -- you've done good -- i see you taught one laoman to spell... 🤣👍

I started out with Mac solid state gear in the late 70's (2205 amp and C28 pre).  It was fine for it's time and there wasn't as many choices as today.  Used if for 20 years and sold it for what I paid for it.  I haven't listened to any of the current offerings and moved in another direction after my Mac gear.

Of the multiple systems in my home, two are currently comprised predominantly or exclusively of McIntosh components. I love the Mac stuff for what it is and what it does! In my office I have a C 2300 preamplifier driving a 275 Mark six amplifier. The sound is lovely with several pair of speakers that I have on hand. At first I did not like the green LEDs on the tubes, but they have grown on me.  In my  finished basement, I have a 452 amplifier with a C 50 preamplifier.  I also have the 550 SACD/CD player in that system as well. Another system in the basement features a BHK 250 amplifier with an audia flight preamplifier and esoteric SA50 disc player. Available speakers are KEF Blade twos and Paradigm signature S6V3. I would not characterize the BHK or 452 as better or worse. Both provide outstanding results, but they are different. The BHK is more delicate/subtle. There may be a larger window into subtle details. Both amplifiers do a phenomenal job and I enjoy them both immensely.

my belief is that Macintosh makes outstanding equipment. At one time I considered it to be expensive and overpriced, but no longer. There are so many brands which cost many times what Macintosh is charging these days. After going to their factory tour I understand the cost involved in producing their equipment and providing the excellent service that they are known for. Is McIntosh the be-all/end-all? Probably not but they produce wonderful gear at a fair price. I have owned many brands and would put Mac up there with the best of them.

jjss49,

Just so you know that I have been properly deputized, here's my badge...

 Amazon.com: Grammar Police Lapel Pin : Clothing, Shoes & Jewelry

Hello!

Could not resist getting into this discussion. I was hired by MAC in 1968 to come and design tuners. MR77, MR78 and part of MR74 are mine. My current audio system is all MAC using all-tube circuitry. System finished in 1988, after I had left MAC in 1974 to do speakers.

(1) 2-box 8 tube preamp borrowing from Marantz 7 and MAC C22.

(2) 50WPC triode power amp with MAC output transformers

(3) Yes, a TUBE MR78!

(4) Usual turntable and CD player.

(5) Joseph Pearl loudspeakers

I do not judge audiophile hobby to deeply. Life is short and no time to indulge in uninformed opinions and trash talk. There is enough good stuff from others than MAC to satisfy any well-informed listener. Please check my article published in December 2021 issue of Audioxpress for more ideas regarding good sound.

My reference for sound are two seats for wife and myself at the Symphony. There is no argument for best sound, real live music, which cannot be duplicated by any audio system.

 Hey.. It's one guy's opinion. I had a McIntosh amp and preamp for 25 years that sadly didn't survive the Harvey flood and I wish I still had them.

Having owned many pieces of McIntosh equipment, including a pair of the very first 1201 amps to roll out of Binghamton, it’s a certain sound.  It’s warm and laidback to me. Here’s the deal, it’s beautiful to look at and it sounds lush and warm, the equipment wasn’t made for just plain old you.  What sounds good to you might not sound good to someone else.  I prefer fast, forward, and bright equipment, that’s because my hearing is just that, mine   McIntosh didn’t design their equipment around me.  

All ya gotta do is look at those toobs and transfoormers and ooo la la, you know it's gonna be just fine.

I started with Kenwood, Realistic, Yamaha. Onkyo, and Marantz ....with cheap Bose or Advent speakers.

Then I graduated to a Luxman 505 UxII and some Epos Elan speakers. The sound was not all that much superior.

I then decluttered my room and treated with GIK products.

Quite a vast change and likely the biggest improvement.

However I since have went tube gear with McIntosh C2500 and MC75 monoblocks---mated to Sonus Faber Oly 1s. I also changed my streaming products from a Node 2i to a sonore rendu, Small Green Machine Roon device and a Mytek DAC+.

Nearly everything has made an improvement. But the Luxman I still have as a backup. I will say I FAR prefer my McGear to the Luxman.

I checked out that guy’s "store". Yeah he states buyers need to convince him to sell to them. Yeah right---I did not see one thing in his place I’d want. I checked out his super room vid too. Well I’ll just say I don’t care for this Jay either that he says states his system is the best ever---much prefer the Jay that used to work with Adrian and Villup.

So far I seem to be the only thumbs down on his most recent you tubes.

LIkely wont be visiting his channel in the future,

Im not a huge fan of dealman or ask paul or darko either but these guys are saints compared to this dude, jay labs, the SR magic props Denby (whatever his nam eis--who cares) guy, and the audio circle guy (ASR-Amir?) that hates just about everything. Frankly, IMO, we need more Audiofiliac and Gene Della Sala types.

"It’s about bashing people that own McIntosh gear." Well this has to be one of the silliest comments I have come across in any fora. It is about saying that McIntosh gear does not appeal to many people because some of us believe it does not sound that good and is not value for money. End of story.

I know much of this thread and speaking of McIntosh sound, the conversations are mostly centered around their Amps. What  about their preamps?

How do people feel newer preamps like the C52 and C53 stack up?

Perhaps because I'm old school, I like that there is some onboard sound shaping provided.  Or is that a monkey wrench with added garbage in the audio path?

I imagine there's some number of ways to look at it.

Well I have many pieces a d from ma y of the top end. Brands I have Krell mark Levinson,Ayre,audio research, sonic frontier, transparent,canary,harbeth,neat,and equation. But among my stereo pieces I have two McIntosh tuners. I love them and I find them fun to listen to. I have an mr71 and a mr73. In many ways and I feel like I should duck after I say this but I prefer the mr73. It maybe just plays better with the rest of the equipment in that system. I have a solid state system with an all tube front end. And I have a tube system with a solid state from end. I enjoyed the mix of the two. I really don't care what anyone thinks of my system or the other system. They have been thought out and pieces auditioned and I liked what I bought and how it sounds in each case. So if that fellow doesn't like McIntosh so be it. I love both of my tuners and in my opinion I have never heard better and I have no need to change either one of them no matter what anyone says. In fact the main problem up here is the FM stations have gone down hill big-time. I  happy with my decision s and if I decide I want a little bit more I will go looking yet there is no yen to do that at the moment. 

Regards Tom

Another McIntosh thread 🤣. Pretty much similar to a cable thread. Gets old but bottom line you like Mac or you don’t. Most haven’t either heard Mac or properly matched. However, if you don’t like the sound move on. Pretty simple, but I can think the same about an amp another audiophile raves over. Why trash or make disparaging remarks? Overall, McIntosh isn’t overpriced when you compare it to higher end gear that doesn’t sound much better. It actually is quite the bargain. There’s a very interesting YouTube review of the McIntosh MC452. He does a fantastic but fair assessment that made me realize what a great amp it is. Not everyone will agree but made me realize performance per dollar is quite high.

Haters are going to hate (so are the jealous who can’t afford Mac).  
Mcintosh have a strong sound through a decent speaker.  

Yeah I have 2 pieces of Macintosh equipment. That I bought used .But i only can afford a Honda Civic. But that Civic is now $25,000 lol....

How can anybody have a problem with an American made product that is 75 years old? 150 hard working folks build some great stuff for us to enjoy. What’s not to like ?. Oh btw, Mikey needs some professional grade help.