Audio Technica cartridges for the budget minded.
Looking for a good system for my apartment. Any advise?
I have a medium sized living room. Any ideas for this fledgling audiophile?
I'm looking for a decent turn table, amp, speakers and a cd player. Money IS an object so if there is anything you can recommend that won't break the bank but still offer a nice sonic experience (We love classical, jazz and the Grateful Dead).
Thank you.
fojomo
I'm looking for a decent turn table, amp, speakers and a cd player. Money IS an object so if there is anything you can recommend that won't break the bank but still offer a nice sonic experience (We love classical, jazz and the Grateful Dead).
Thank you.
fojomo
74 responses Add your response
I use Canare Starquad microphone cable for interconnect. Buy it bulk for $1 a foot. Starquad is available almost everywhere. A recent audition put Switchcraft connectors near the pinnacle - WBT. Switchcraft connectors are available from Digikey for peanuts. Anybody with a soldering pencil can do it for you. Put the dollars you saved into the cartridge. Of course, you could spend the entire $5K on cabling, but I wouldn't - and I doubt if you'll find much better than the above for any money. IMO. YMMV. |
Canton Chrono 70 - $1895 NAD C388 w/ Blu OS Card $2199 NAD C538 CD Player $349 NAD C588 Turntable $899 (Comes with Ortofon 2M Red Cartridge) NAD PP2e Phono Stage $189 Total is $5531 The C388 would have the Blu OS streaming from the unit or you can connect a PC to it directly if you prefer to stream off of a PC. Most retailers will give you 10% off which would put you on budget at $4978. One perk is that all the parts would fit together aesthetically and it would look good. The other thing is you should get between 30 and 60 days as an in-home demo and your only obligation would be return shipping. Which, in fairness would not be insignificant. The reality is you don't NEED an external phono stage as the C388 has one built in but the PP2e is a nice unit, will give you better sound and would give you more flex if you wanted to try a different cartridge, especially a MC like a Denon DL 301 or something like it in the future. Full disclosure, I am a Canton and NAD dealer. If you are interested PM me. |
I believe the Canare speaker cable is one of the best buys in audio. The locking bananas would be nice. Check out the Blue jeans Cable site. They sell the Canare speaker cable and Belden digital coax. Both are sold by the foot. It is generally recommended that the digital coax should be 1.5 meter so I would go with 5ft. You might check out digital cable threads on this forum. The Belden cable is so inexpensive it could easily be replaced later. I would not worry about cables too much until you have spent time getting familiar with your system. Always an opportunity to make adjustments at that time. I would also check out the Signal cable and Cullen cable sites recommended by b_limo. They make a highly regarded cable for the money. I have purchased many of my cables used. 50% or less of retail. |
@fojomo, if your setup is directly between your speakers, 8-10 feet is usually good for speaker cables. I like the locking bananas that blue jeans cold welds to their cables. Highly recommend them. I had these at one point! Signal Cable Silver Resolution is a step up. May want to check them out as well. I had these after the blue jeans. I can recommend Cullen Cables as well. My set-up uses all Cullen Cable powercords and Analysis Plus cables. I’d take the Ragnarok! The headphone amp is really great. Later when you get some cans, the Ragnarok will power any headphones really well. If you get the fully loaded Ragnarok, it comes with a dac, phono stage, headphone amp... covers many bases. They offer a 15 day trial as well. |
Cullen Cables https://www.cullencable.com I agree with the Rega CD player over any other at this price point. fojomo, you need to choose a cartridge. |
Rega IO for $360! https://www.audio-connexion.com/REGA-87183.html Rega R CD player, Rega table for what you can afford, Rega RX 1 speakers and the rest on cables, stands, etc. Signal Cable makes a nice product for little scratch. |
After reading everyone's posts (thank you!) and doing a bit of research, I think I've narrowed my options down to the following:
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@twoleftears. One deficiency of looking for speakers first is that if the amp you have currently doesn't have the control over the speakers you are testing to demonstrate what the speakers under test are capable of. Last year I was looking to upgrade my system so I started by looking at speakers. One of the hifi shop owners suggested that I bring my amp and speakers in so I could get broader comparison. Making a long story short, When I heard my speakers through a resolving and powerful amp that was able to get the bass I'd been missing from my own speakers I ended up buying an amp instead. It was like I had never heard my speakers!!! The surprise to me is both amps rated for 100Watts RMS per channel. Old amp Rotel RA-1570 - new amp Simaudio 340dpx - speakers B&W CM5 S2. So the caveat I have with starting with upgrading speakers first is make sure you have good enough gear to drive them when you are testing them so that you can tell that you are listening to the speakers and not deficiencies in the amp. |
How loud do you listen to music? I listen to classical mostly, but it is LOUD (a Shostakovich symphony has mega decibels at the climaxes). If you are limited to how loud you can listen, because of being in an apartment, or you just don't like lifelike volumes of sound, I would recommend a pair of dipole planar speakers. Magnepans, or similar. They can be made, for not very much money, if you are handy that way. Very lifelike presentation, quick, low distortion. If you occasionally want mega bass, add a subwoofer or two, start with inexpensive models. After you have speakers that work for you, get the least expensive turntable and amp. My personal faves for absolute best bang for buck, is an original NAD 3020 Series 20 (in excellent shape - meaning someone has gone over the solder joints and recapped and fixed any problems with the controls being problematic) and a Technics SL-D2. The NAD can drive most speakers, even planars and Linn Isobariks, and the Technics is rock solid and seems to last forever. My two cents. Good luck! So much good vintage and new affordable gear out there |
I've owned 3 pairs of those Quads for a dozen years, and only one panel has failed. Also a HV transformer. They sound great in the stereo room and unbelievable as HT center channel. Magnepans sound very fine too - but different. And they're a whole lot cheaper and a whole lot more robust. Magnepans do not have a HV supply, and so arcing is NOT a possibility. But it's a good idea to keep them out of the sun or the cement which holds the mylar to the frame will deteriorate. |
I have to disagree with purchasing Magnipan or any other electrostatic speaker. I own Quad 2905's and while they sound great, I've had to replace a good number of panels due to a mistake which caused arcing. The best way to own electrostatics is to own two pair so that when one pair is getting repaired, there's another pair as a backup. And while the comment that vinylrestingplace makes is true, that speakers will make the biggest contribution to a system, don't overlook how an amp or cd player will improve the sound and will reduce listening fatigue. Used Harbeth and Spencer speakers come up frequently on the various sights from reputable sellers. I'm somewhat calculating in my head what this system will cost based on the recommendations in this thread and I don't see how you'll do yourself any favor by investing in a vinyl setup. If I can be candid, for a good vinyl setup, you'll need to spend roughly 2,000.00 for a good mc phono stage, about $ 1,200.00 on a turntable and $800.00 for something like a Hana cartridge. On the other hand, you could do something like buy a running Thorens TD 160 and modify it and then the Rogue amp, I believe, has a phono stage but that will still eat into your other pieces. |
The most important factor is your room/speaker interface. Get a pair of speakers that drive your room and fit in the space you have. Borrow or beg anything that might work. Try everything. Don't overlook used or vintage or unusual, like small Maggies. Once you find speakers, get an amp big enough to drive them (if Maggies, you'll need some power, more efficient speakers will give you more options). Then spend whatever's left on front-end gear. The best cheap turntable available is the $699 Pioneer and the $1,000 MoFi is also a good buy. The right speakers will make the rest of the gear sound good. A Linn dealer will tell you the opposite, that the front end is more important, but he's trying to sell a turntable ranging from $4k-17k. At your budget level, it works quite the other way. |
I’d say the Rogue Tube Integrated and the flagship Rega CD player. I helped a friend put together a small system for his apartment and he chose a Rega amp, Rega CD player, Herbies Audio Super Black Hole cd mat, Rega phonostage, Clear Audio turntable, Wireworld cables and I sold him my Monitor Audio GR Gold speakers. It all sounded good except for his vinyl rig for which he purchased an Ortofon Red mm cartridge. I’d really reconsider purchasing a vinyl rig because of the need to spend a lot in order to get acceptable results. A good sounding phono stage and cartridge combination will be costly. Plus, living in an apartment, you’ll at least need a good power conditioner. Consider that most all of those Grateful Dead Rhino remasters are strictly on cd and the MOFI Grateful Dead reissues are available on hybrid SACD. As far as classical is concerned, 98 % of new classical recordings are solely in digital format. I like vinyl as an option but I only play early mono micro groove because all of the stereo options are remastered for digital and a stereo cartridge is a compromise without a great tonearm. |
Ok, to ammend my last post, I’d buy used. I forgot to mention that... I saw a pair of Lintons withstands for $850 awhile back. A Belles Aria can be had for $1400, same with an Ayre AX7e. Both are very high quality units and are rated at 60 and 75 watts respectively. You can get a Schiit Bifrost Multibit for $500 or a Schiit Gungir Multibit for $800. I’d pair it with a Bluesound node 2i ($450 refurbed) and a used Cambridge CXC for $400. Thats $3150, lets round up to $3300. Then I’d spend around $200 on cables from Blue Jeans. The Belles Aria has a great Headphone Amp and supposedly has a nice phono pre as well. My Aria streaming Amazon HD through my Gungir Multibit into my Periodic Audio BE’s sounds fantastic! Listening to my headphones is no longer a downgrade. |
Although I have major $’s invested in my analog system (well over $5K), I wouldn’t recommend starting with one, unless you have an extensive vinyl collection already. Do you have a large CD collection? If not, pass on the CD player. Or rip your CDs and play them through an audio streamer. Focus on speakers, integrated amp (w/FM tuner), an audio streamer, DAC and headphones. For speakers, audition as many as you can. Preferably in YOUR apartment. You have already been given a lot of advice here. I’d recommend budgeting $1,500 - $2,000. Integrated amp: going used gives you a lot of bang for your buck. I’m partial to Yamaha but Sony, Luxman and Accuphase can also be great value. Some models bundle in FM receivers and phono preamps as well, so if you do decide to dive into a vinyl rig at a later date, you won’t need to buy a separate phono pre. Budget: up to $1,300 Streamer vs audio PC: The choice between these two largely depends on your skillset and how much time you want to commit. A streamer is simply a specialized computer that is optimized for audio. Personally, I run a fan-less, small footprint PC connected to an external HD. The software I use is JRiver Media Centre 26. Budget: up to $1,000. DAC: The expected resolution of the digital files you will stream will dictate the type of DAC. e.g. if you listen to MP3 vs CD rips (44.1kHz/16 bit) vs 96kHz/24bit vs DSD files. As with everything in audio, there are very vigorous (and passionate) debates on this subject. It’s a personal preference. There are lots of very good DACs to be found, used, for under $500 (Teac, Schiit, Topping, Bryston, Bel Canto, etc.). Budget: $500. Headphones: Seeing as you live in an apartment, I would be remiss in not recommending headphones (for those times when you want to re-live that concert experience). Planar magnetic headphones represent very good value. HiFiMan HE-4xx, as an example, can be had, new, for $120. Of course, as with everything in audio, the sky is the limit. Whether or not you’ll also require a headphone DAC will depend on your choice of integrated amp or DAC. Some models have headphone amps built-in. Budget: $120 - $200 Hopefully something in the above mess I wrote is helpful to you in your search. Happy hunting! |
Lots of good advice here. I think those who suggest deciding on speakers first are spot on. If you get a speaker that is too bright/boomy/laid back/etc. for your personal tastes, then it doesn't matter what else you put in the system. You won't like it. Personally, I agree with the recommendation of the Wharfedale Lintons. By all accounts, they have enough bass to fill your room, are easy to drive, have a very musical sound, are a good bargain, can be ordered with stands, and can be demoed with Music Direct's return policy. I think it's about as safe a choice as you can find. You'd then be able to drive them with any number of reasonably priced integrated amps that have a good phono stage built in - Rega Brio ($995), Music Hall 15.3a ($549). This would be the foundation of a very musical, enjoyable system, and would put you at about $2.500 if purchased new. Then, you could look at a turntable like the Mobile Fidelity Studio Deck Foundation turntable with cartridge ($1000), your choice of streamer/CD player (sorry, I don't have a digital setup, so I can't really recommend anything specific) for around $1,000), and cables for $500. In my opinion, an approach like this will allow you to build an enjoyable, engaging system that will just let you enjoy your music collection. And that's what this hobby is all about. A couple of years ago, I downsized from a much more expensive rig to components in the price range you are considering. I was pleasantly surprised by how much good sound could be had for reasonable money. Feel free to PM me if you want to talk more. Good luck, and enjoy the journey! Scott |
First thing is to audition speakers. They are as different as cuisine. I would be absolutely certain to audition Magnepan speakers. When I was in a similar situation, I fell in love with Magnepan speakers and spent 70% of the budget there. It was a very good decision. Spend as little as possible on cables, I mean like $20 each. Cables do make a difference, BUT (1) it is a major profit centre for someone else (2) expensive is not better (3) cost benefit ratio is lower than for anything else (4) when you buy real cheap, you can wait for the upgrade itch, test alternative cabling in your own system at your leisure, and let something prove it's worth. Then buy it and throw away the old stuff. Or, you can risk burning 20% of your budget for nothing. IMO. YMMV. For perspective, my system is costly, DIY, and high end. |
Ok, $5000 is the upper limit of your budget, you would prefer less. You want a Turntable and CD playback. You would consider upgrades as money becomes available. Lets start with CD playback. I would purchase a CD transport that plays into a DAC. I own a Cambridge CXC which retails at $600 however can be found discounted. There are others, check out Cd transports on this forum. Audio Advisor sells the Cambridge and the Audiolab, both aforementioned herein. Another option is to purchase a CD player having digital output. Either way you can take advantage of upgrading the DAC should you choose. Regarding the TT. I would allocate ~$700 to $1000 for this source. You are purchasing 3 components, table, arm and cartridge. Most in this price range have compatible table and arm with a budget moving magnet (MM) cartridge. You will also need a phonostage between the TT and amplifier. There are some budget phonostages available. Project, NAD, Schiit to name three. Next we consider the integrated amplifier. As you know they can be found as line level only, or having a internal DAC, and/or internal phonostage. Now this is where some discussion regarding possible future upgrades comes in. If one owns quality CD transport and turntable, one can upgrade the DAC. If one owns a quality TT, one can make improvements upgrading the cartridge and/or the phonostage. The key is to have an amplifier that mates well with the speaker. Speakers, room size, and loudness levels will dictate the power need of the amplifier. There are a number of speaker what would play well into your room when provided with a 50-100wpc integrated. If one were to find one having both an internal DAC and MM phonostage. That said it is easier to find one that has DAC only. This would save money on separate components and additional cables. This approach would be a good starting point when on a sub $5000 budget, allowing greater expenditure on sources and speakers, significant improvements at a later date and while allowing you to experience your music collection now. I will mentionone such amp, the Yamaha A-S701. I retails at $750 and can be found discounted. It provides 100wpc, and has internal DAC with coax and optical input and a MM phonostage. I own one and find it to be very good. I have not used the phonostage. Ok, the choice of speakers is the most subjective of choices and therefore hardest for others to recommend. Again when on a budget I suggest those the reasonable sensitivity, 86-90dB and 6-8ohm impedance. There are so many that would work well within your situation. The Wharfedale Linton speaker has been mentioned.. There is a review in The Absolute Sound. Cost is $1200 w/out stands, $1500 with. An east to drive speaker with a 50-100wpc amp. Music Direct carries it and allows for returns. Speakers are one place to save purchasing used, or dealer demos. Moving forward I advise you to check out local stores, Music direct and Audio Advisor as online outlets, and then consider starting specific threads on this forum concerning component options. A CD transport playing into the Yamaha A-S701 using it's DAC driving a pair of Wharfdale Lintons on there stands would make for a very nice system at a retain cost of $2850. Leaving considerable funds for a vinyl system for a total under $5000. This to serve as an example, not the only option component wise. Good luck in your endeavor and please keep us posted. |
Try Elac speakers and integrated amp. Andrew Jones is a brilliant engineer. He created some of the best speakers, TAD, and now he is using his talent to create affordable speakers for Elac. Their discovery integrated has built in room correction, lots of bang for the buck. Try finding a used Parasound JC3+ phone stage. |
fojomo the Quatros never fail to amaze me I am a fan of Vandersteens you might want to demo a pair of 2ce sigII you could fined a good price on them sense the new model is out and I would get one front end piece turntable or CD player I would do a steamer or the turntable if you are going to do tubes for the amp demo a Rogue Cronus Mag I had one with my Vandersteen 2ce sigII great combo Enjoy the Music Tom |
Parasound makes a great integrated amp with just about everything you could want.The prior model Halo 5 should be available used for $1500 and it will work magic with a used pair of Magnepan 1.7i or 1.7 which should be available for another $1500 or less if you go with the 1.7 leaving enough for a tt, CD player and possibly a used sub. Enjoy the journey |
Try Elac speakers and integrated amp. Andrew Jones is a brilliant engineer. He created some of the best speakers, TAD, and now he is using his talent to create affordable speakers for Elac. Their discovery integrated has built in room correction, lots of bang for the buck. Try finding a used Parasound JC3+ phone stage. |
Agree 100% with maxwave and twoleftears on researching speakers first. Also, heed millercarbons advice on speaker sensitivity. Look up the exponential energy requirements as it relates to how loud you need/want to go. As a newbie to this hobby, I bought my first speakers not knowing any better than to consider power requirements. Didn't even think about which type of speaker to best match my music preferences. Thus my diminutive Magnepan LRSs refused to shine with a 50wpc class A Forte 1A. Stepping up to a 100wpc class A/B Michael Yee Audio PA-1 yielded a noticeable improvement. A Hegel H190 - even better. BUT,... it wasn't until breaking the budget on a Bryston BP26 preamp along with a pair of 300wpc Ampzilla 2000 2nd editions that the power hungry Magnepans started to perform at or near their best. Don't fall into the same rabbit hole! All the best, Happy Thanksgiving and stay safe! |
Except listening to many systems you can also read some reviews or listen to Youtube reviews. Here is Steve Guttenburgs recommendations for a sub $2500 system. I don't think it contained both streaming and LP so you will go up a bit in price. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Y3SUdc7J2M I have not seen this video but it may be of use for you https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2b45ydywWss Also The Absolute Sound and Stereophile both has recommended components in varying price ranges. TAS has more "cheap" systems if I remember correctly. IMHO it is worth buying a magazine or two to get their lists. |
Since you're starting off fresh forget about Dac's, streamers, etc. for now. They can come later after the basic system is built. Take millercarbon's advice about a standalone phono stage. I learned that early on. Avoid tables with a built in phono stage or amps that have them. You will be rewarded later if you decide to upgrade the table and/or cartridge. The OLD philosophy about building a good system was to spend about half of one's budget on speakers. That may or may not still hold true but in "those days" attention wasn't paid much to the quality of cables and other factors. But speakers are still a critical component. Since you like strong bass there's a major cost consideration here. Floor standers can deliver that. But you may find a sound that you prefer as much or more with good stand mounts plus a sub or two and be a bit easier on your budget. An integrated amp seems to be your best option for now since you will be able to add components as budget and wants warrant. You can read for decades about user opinions and equipment reviewers and not find many that agree with each other. There is no replacement for an in person audition. If you live in an area that has at least one or more dealers go there and do some listening. If a friend has some vinyl recordings that you know well take those along. The listening room at the dealer will not sound the same as the one at your home. But it is a good starting point. Room treatments can be significant but that's something to address once you have your basic system going. Best of luck in your voyage. |
Integrated amps to consider: -Belles Aria -Ayre AX7e -Schiit Ragnarok -Rogue Sphinx DACs to consider: -MHDT Orchid -Audio Mirror Tubadour -Schiit Gungir Multibit -Schiit Bifrost Multibit CD Transports to consider: -Cambridge Audio CXC -Audiolab CDT6000 Cables to consider: -Blue Jeans -Signal Cable -Analysis Plus Streamer to consider: -Bluesound Node2i -Speakers to consider -Wharfedale Linton -Wharfedale Evo Completely different option... -KEF LS50W 2 (Metas) -phono preamp + turntable -CD TRANSPORT (Audiolab / Cambridge Audio -SUBS (REL, Rythmik, SVS) Anyway you cut it though, $5k is on the low end to get a nice system together if you are trying to do 3 different sources... cd, streaming, turntable. I’d almost recommend spending that same $5k on cables, stands, a few acoustic panels, speakers, preamp and amp, dac, and either a transport or streamer. THEN later on I’d add a turntable, THEN whichever I didn’t buy first, the transport or streamer. You could do things in phases. If you got the Belles Aria for instance, you could use the on board phono stage until you were ready to buy something that would be a substantial upgrade. |
As a retailor who specializes in systems in this price range we think we can offer you real advice based on 30 years experience a limítedrange monitor you Will hate on the Dead you need a speaker which Will offer good performance at reasonable levels one if the Best sounding ndtotañly apartamen friendly speakers is the new warfedale lintons A rega p3 is a great table An nad c368 preampdac and streamer with room correction Will give you everythingyou need A tiny nuprime sta9 Will drive the speakers wonderfully well Lintons speakers 1500 Preamp/dac/streamer 1500 Table. 1145 Amp795 In a word extraordinary performance full streaming and room correction to help optomize the system to the room Unbeatable for the price andyou can later add another nuprime amp and run them as mono blocks for improved sound So in one system you have a dac and streamer room corection an upgrade path to mono amps And a great looking set of speakers that are very apartament friendly Dave and troy Audio intellect nj Rega nuprime nad dealers |
Seems to me you want amp/pre/radio/cd/tt/speakers. And you want a system that (1) sounds good. (2) is of interest (in some way) to audiophiles. Now lots of us have systems under 5K that sound fantastic. But to get what you want on point 2, you're pressing it here: every component you get means a bit less you can spend on another one, and there will be compromises throughout that system (which will become apparent as/if you upgrade). Why not look for a reconditioned tube receiver, which will only set you back say 1-1.5K. Then you don't have to worry about which phono-pre-amp and DAC converter you need or that your $300 interconnects mean you have to downgrade the speakers you want, or go through the whole 'which should I spend on? pre- or power-amp). You'll have plenty left over to buy the best tt, speakers, and cd-player you want. And the whole set up will look cool as hell. (You'll have plenty of power--my amps run from 8-20W and they fill rooms bigger than that). And I've found they sound just fine either with modern speakers or old KLH ones. |
@mesch
Thanks for the sage advise! As for the neighbors, we only share (1) wall.. so a non-issue. I agree that with a $5000 budget you can put together a very nice system. Are you willing to purchase some items used?- Yes of course! Any way to bring that 5k down a rung or two, the better. For the same sound quality, vinyl is more expensive that digital. Which is most important? Good question. I prefer vinyl (the sound is just richer and more flavorful in my opinion). That being said, it'll be a healthy mix of the two since (as of now) the majority of the music i listen to is "streaming" from the internet or from my own dig. library. I would limit my choices of speakers that would play well with 50-80wpc into a medium size room. What is room size?Room size is: roughly 13' x 25'. Good to know. I read that.. "As a general guideline, it is better to get an amplifier that is slightly more powerful than your speakers are rated for. " So perhaps go w/a 150pc amp in this case? Consider integrated amplifiers. There are many that have both internal DACs and phonostages. A great way to get started within budget. If desired an external DAC or phonostage can be added at a later date as funds become available.Good suggestion. Select speakers that have reasonable sensitivity and not difficult to drive impedance wise (therefore fitting the 50-80wpc power restriction).What is a good example of this? Well, I need to get a bird on, happy Thanksgiving!I should do the same .. but I'm trapped in this sonic rabbit hole. I'll need a lifeline if I can't pull myself out on my own. |
