Looking for 50-100 watts of Tube Power (give or take) for my JBL 4349s

For under $2000. the Cayin 88t  is a great amp. They manufacture the prima luna amplifiers also. 45 watts ultra linear, 25 watts Triod. Can be used as a power amp also (pre amp input). 

+ 1 with Quicksilver Audio

decooney,

I really can't answer your question right now. I've had the CODA for about 6 weeks and the Transcend for about half of that. In addition I've just received an Aric Audio Motherlode XL preamp, so I'm really testing 3 components at about the same time. The CODA is broken in, the Transcend is about broken in as it was the same exact unit that was reviewed by Bob Grossman at "Enjoy The Music" with a few new upgrades, and the Motherlode XL is just recently installed.

The nice part is that the Motherlode XL allows for both amps to be connected at the same time, and I can switch back and forth. Both amps are brilliant and really easy to listen to, the best amps I have ever owned by a good margin. You can read my review of the CODA on the S5.5 thread started by Teejay here on Agon, and Terry London (Teejay) will have a review on it sometime soon at Stereo Times.....and you can go back and read Bob's review at "Enjoy The Music".

I never say never, but at least for the next bunch of years, I am off of the preamp/amp upgrade cycle......both amps and preamp are BRILLIANT. I don't know that I could review the entire combo, as I've run out of superlatives in my previous reviews (Clayton Shaw Caladans on Agon and the CODA S5.5 review). But for the money ($3,000 for Caladans, $6,000 for the CODA, $4,000 for the Transcend, and $6,000 Motherlode XL)....less than $20,000, I'd put this combo up with anything I've heard for less than $50,000. That is an opinion of course, but it's certainly up there

@vthokie83 if you don't mind the question, which do you prefer to sit back and just listen to music with for the longest amount of time - the Coda S5.5 or the Transcend tube push pull amp? And, do you run the same preamp with both amps when swapping amps. ack and forth?

I'm late to this thread, but I can throw 2 amps that I've recently purchased that are sounding amazing.....one solid state, and one tube. The solid state is the CODA S5.5, all class A 50WPC 8 ohm, 100WPC 4 ohms, and 200WPC 2 ohms.....100 amps peak power. I've got a review on another thread if you'd care to read it

Second is the Aric Audio Transcend "Push Pull" amp, I've only had it about a week....but it already beats my Tubes4hifi KT120 amp. Here's a review on it

https://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/1223/Aric_Audio_Transcend_Push_Pull_Amplifier_Review.htm

“My musical tastes are all over the place: rock, pop, jazz, world, electronic, classical. I listen to a lot of symphonic/orchestral”

As a JBL owner (4367) I will say don’t starve the speakers for wattage. Yes they don’t need much power to get loud but the bass punch and control seems better with more power. I don’t have much tube experience… just some food for thought. 

The unrecognized heavy weight that is made in California is canary audio. They are held in high esteem in many places just not thought of in North America. Cheap on the used market. Now beyond them look for a high end brand not kids stuff lol. Audio reseach, cary,vac,Conrad Johnson, McIntosh, sonic frontier, vtl, or bat or pathos. The last two are hybrids.

Regards

The thing about tube amps is that there is a VAST difference in sound among different types and brands, so you really need to do some auditioning to determine what best suits your taste.  For my own taste, I would be looking for something on the warmer, fuller sounding side, given the sound of your speakers.  At the same time, you don't want to sacrifice the terrific dynamics you get from those speakers.  I think you should also seriously consider integrated amps and not just power amps.  Most tube integrated amps are pretty much a tube power amp with switching and a volume control added to the amp and the gain stage from a linestage is really not needed.  

Your list includes some pretty divergent sound types like the leaner sounding Audio Research vs. the Conrad Johnson amps.  

Let me add another brand for your consideration:  look at Synthesis Audio amps.  They make amps that are on the warmer side--rich, full sound, but not sluggish or murky sounding.  They deliver a "big" sound and do a good job of flooding the room with sound.  They have a lot of punch too.  I particularly like the models utilizing KT-66 or 6L6 tubes.  This sound is so much more vibrant, energetic and alive than the sound of any Decware amps I've heard.

Just my two bits. There's been several really great suggestions already. I would like to pitch Cary products. I used to sell them in the 90's and always wanted an SLI 80 ever since I first set one up and played hundred of hours of musical enjoyment while "working" there. Regardless of what speaker combo i threw at it, Tannoy, Mission, Mordont Short, NHT, it was always engaging and musical. I finally ordered my own from Cary Direct last year and could not be happier. It's a great match with my Volti Razz. I also owned a very early Cary hybrid CAD 2500A, that was a nice and punchy 80WPC amp. I like the factory support, the fact they're still made in the US. 

A pair of nicely restored pair of Dynaco MkIII's with 6550's! I have the rare Paoli version!

@jerryrocks agree that combo is classic.   

Not on the OP list and worth considering - McIntosh MC275 with C2300. Amazing sound.

I suggest you review Quicksilver and BAT amplifiers. I found them both to be superb.

Good luck with your selection!

@pdreher, I've pretty much taken the AR 150SE out of the running. It's way more amp than I need and would be expensive to retube. I am strongly considering the VT80SE, and from what I've read they're designed to be used with any ol' preamp. This makes sense considering it's AR's entry-level amp at $9,500 new, while their entry-level pre is $10,000. 

I will say the transformers on the VT80SE seem small. Compared to the Quicksilver monos especially.

@pdreher, I’m a bit intimidated by the VAC gear for the reasons you mention. The QS KT Monos are very tempting. I actually quite like the aesthetics -- they look all business. And it’s surprising how affordable they are. There’s a pair on US Audio Mart for $2800, which seems like a steal for so much amp.

A friend of mine runs a pair of Altec Lancings with McIntosh MC60 monoblocks. I really enjoy this system. Lots of used MC275s in my price range, too. I will give this some thought.

@rischa As a US distributor of solid state amps, we have a CANOR "Virtus I2" KT88 Class-A demo available that may interest you.

40w/ch Ultralinear

20w/ch Triode

Shipped direct from Canor July,2023 and we’ll include NOS tube upgrades

More info here: https://www.tmhaudio.com/DEMOS.html

New UK "HiFiNews" review w/stock Russian EH tubes: 

@atmasphere, thanks, I will take a look closer at Class D options. I heard your monoblocks at Axpona last year and thought they sounded great.

@decooney Couldn't agree more with running 6SN7 based preamps from Cary, deHavilland and Supratek.  

@pdreher sounds like fun. My buddy had a pair of the MC-30s refreshed and ran them for many years.  Pretty neat amps.  In my larger QS amps, I found the KT150s need the right amount of plate voltage, bias,  and transformers to run their best. Going back and forth I found I actually prefer the KT120s in my QS mono amps,, and with the right input tubes and [higher-end] caps, and proper biasing - they truly sound like different amplifiers.

I'm an old EL34 fan from my Cary days, and similar amps.  From the get-go I was trying to get the QS to sound closer to those amps and this combination has me much closer to more of a hybrid golden era sound, yet there seems to be no loss of detail as long as I'm running my Cary SLP-98 tube preamp with the right 6SN7 tubes in it.  This combo of preamp and amps really sounds good, super happy with it.  Good luck with yours, enjoy!  :)  

@decooney While I didn't attempt to replace caps on the QS's, I did swap out the smaller tubes with ANOS Mullard CV4004's and CBS 12BH7 black plates... both of which yielded improvements over the stock tubes.  I also preferred Gold Lion KT88's to the KT150's.  I have no regrets replacing the QS's with McIntosh MC-30's, with the caveat that the 60+ year old Mac's will need more regular maintenance than the new QS's.   The QS's are rock solid dependable performers and I don't doubt they will improve with mods... but the vintage MC-30's have great synergy with my Altec's and I appreciate the nostalgia of amps that were built before I was born.

@pdreher i don’t recall if you mentioned this before, but have you swapped out the stock capacitors for something a few notches up in quality/design in your QS amps? The changes in mine and a few other members (8+) who’ve followed along have also reported surprising results back to me as well. Also, changing out the stock input/driver tubes to something much better also helped after changing out the caps first. All the sudden IC cable changes became more noticeable too. Results were the same with KT150s and KT120s in my amps at least.  

I ended up using the same Mundorf Evo Silver-Gold (non oilers) in mine, same as I had in my former Cary Audio amplifiers, now in my Quicksilver Mono 120s for two years, and quite pleased. Mike Sanders is quite content with the stock caps in some of these latest amps, and they may mate with the horns he uses, not so much in my electrostatic AMT series speakers i use for whatever reasons. The Mundorfs opened up nicely, better tone, better texture, better layering, and sound coming from just behind both of my shoulders once they formed and fully settled in, fwiw. Was just curious, Best of Luck.

OP,

ARC VT80 would be a great choice over the older but more powerful REF 150. It has auto biasing and more updated control on the tubes. 

Take a look at offerings from Aric Audio. I’ve owned the Transcend Push Pull for 14 months and it is excellent. With KT150 tubes, you get a stiff 65w of Class A in UL mode. It also takes KT120, KT88, and EL34 with respectively diminishing power. And you can run all in triode if you wish. VAC also makes excellent gear. I owned a Phi 300.1a for five years and still use a Phi Beta preamp, which is stellar. While I never had the chance to compare the 300.1a directly to the Aric, my aural memory, suspect though it may be, tells me I prefer the Aric. Sold the VAC but have no plans to sell the Aric. And it's a bargain.

The Audio Research 150 SE would be a nice choice, but I've always been under the impression that AR amps sound best paired with AR preamps in balanced mode.

I have JBL studio speakers and my Conrad Johnson CAV45 S2 tube amp pairs REALLY well with them and sounds delightful.

I have Altec 19’s... so somewhat similar to your JBL’s.

Of the suggestions above, I’ve owned the Quicksilver KT Mono’s and the VAC 70/70 Signature.

The VAC 70/70 Signature is one of the best amps I’ve owned with regards to sound quality and overall appeal. It’s outstanding with jazz, classical and vocals... but probably not hard rock. It is an older amp and repairs would typically require shipment to VAC, which is expensive and time consuming (typically 6-8 weeks in my experience).

The Quicksilver KT Mono’s with Gold Lion KT88’s or. Tung Sol  KT 120's are a solid all around choice. They are very dependable and focus more on quality construction than aesthetics. Sound quality is very good, but not elite (like the VAC 70/70 Sig that retails near $20K), which should not be expected from amps in the < $5K range. They are an excellent value new or used and often get overlooked due to their utilitarian aesthetics.

I’ve also auditioned a new Line Magnetic 845ia. The sound quality was excellent and I really wanted to buy it.. but the transformers hummed and buzzed significantly, so I had to pass on the purchase.  In addition to the transformer issues I experienced, I don't think these would have enough juice for your speakers or musical tastes

While some scoff at the idea of McIntosh, I’ve owned the MC275 MKV and currently own MC-30 mono blocks. The MC-30's are wonderful from a sound quality perspective, but might be underpowered for your speakers.  The MC275 is very enjoyable and would pair nicely with your speakers and varied musical tastes.  As good or better than the MC275 are vintage MC-60 monoblocks... or MC-75's.   

As far as pre-amps are concerned, I would immediately snag either of the deHavilland’s currently listed on US Audiomart. I own the deHavilland Ultraverve 3 and it’s the best preamp I’ve owned in 30 + years in this hobby. Don’t let the low price fool you... these preamps sound fantastic and respond well to tube rolling, which allows you to tailor the sound to your liking.

Also... in my experience, power ratings have to be taken with a grain of salt. A vintage push pull amp with 30 wpc can sound as powerful than a new Chinese amp rated at 100 wpc.  Focus on quality construction, before looking at power ratings.

@rischa Thanks for your reply. If you specifically want tubes in your system, the pre might be a better place to locate them, particularly from a reliability perspective. As for integrated's - not sure how Copland are availability in the US, but the CTA 407 is a fine tubed integrated amplifier - and extremely well built and reliable.

I’m open to the idea, but I use to run a Decware CSP2+ in front of an Odyssey Khartago, and I don’t remember this combo having the soundstaging of a good tube amp.

@rischa There are now some solid state amps (class D even) that cast a sound stage every bit as good as the best tube amps, while also being relaxed in the mids and highs, ceding no advantages to tube amps at all.

So if you want, you don't have to give up any sound quality while also not having to worry about finding good replacement power tubes.

The impedance and phase angles of this speaker allow it to be an easy load for most amps other than the need for power. You will need some power though; IMO 100-150 Watts should be good in most rooms; the measured sensitivity is a bit lower than what is stated on JBL's website.

There is a used LTA Z40+ integrated available local to me. I haven’t heard these in person but have read they’re great amps.

Any thoughts on a Benchmark la4 with Audio Research VT80SE vs the LTA Z40+?

Thanks to everyone for the additional reccomendations -- I will look into them all.

@auroravengeance, I was checking out the Lab 12 gear the other day -- looks really nice. I'm hoping to check them out at Axpona next month. I know they were there in previous years.

@yoyoyaya, ideally I would have the preamp sorted first, but I've been using integrateds for the last 12 or so years and don't have a power amp on hand to test preamps. I'll have to get pre and power sorted together this time, unless I decide to stick with an integrated.

Also another vote for a Rogers High Fidelity EHF-100 MK2 Tube Integrated Amplifier LIFETIME WARRANTY can be had for less by calling them. Ebay takes 13% Hint.

And this Air Tight ATM-2 Power Amplifier Tube Type High Power Amplifier  would be great too.

Get the vac this us an extraordinary amplifier that can drive jbls plus many other loudspeakers 

Although I have lusted after both the Audio Research and the PrimaLuna, the price point on a used Rogue ST100 was too good to pass up and I am very impressed with the amp. When purchasing a used tube amp an important consideration is the included tube package (i.e. stock current production vs. NOS vintage tubes), as at some point you may consider rolling in something different to tweak your system. Although I don’t have any experience with the Carver, there have been suggests that the weak link in those units are the under-powered transformers.

Audio GD HE-1 XLR......The best sounding Pre- amp that the Part Time Audiophile has EVER heard .....It’s only 4 K...I have one, it’s sound is way above it’s cost...10 tubes and a regenerative power supply of it’s own. Pair it with a great SS Amp and you’ve got musical Bliss with your JBL’s. I have JBL’s and they mate very nicely....Good Luck to you.

@OP The pre amp is more important than the power amp in terms of sound quality, so you might be better to get that sorted first. It's better to proceed in the direction of the signal when choosing components.

I just traded one of these in at Audio Concepts in Dallas,  Check it out

Might want to give the PrimaLuna Evo series a look as well. Very well made in China using above average components with excellent performance and top notch build quality. They can use a wide range of power tubes allowing you to get the output and sound you prefer. New ones fit in your price range. Upscale Audio is the US distributor and also the repair point. I also highly  recommend Vincent Audio if you are interested in hybrid designs with tubes in the pre section. Also made in China to the strict standards of their German designers. My SV-237MK is the piece of gear that never gets sold because It's my fallback between purchases. Every time I put it back in my system, I wonder why I switched because it sounds so good, but then the next shiny new thing catches my eye! They offer hybrid preamps, amps, and integrated amps. Available through Upscale and Audio Advisor. 

Ayon  spirit 3 ,best build quality by far for the money ,uses all Lundahl  transformers and chokes which is the heart of any tube amplifier ,Mundorf capacitors , a machined aluminum case,not sheet metal 

allGold Copper tube sockets, not cheap brass like most ,and microprocessor controlled , it automatically adjusts each kt150 tube , if a tube goes bad a led light comes on you just replace that one tube ,then hit a button , it then recalibrates all the tubes  made in Austria .and very powerful and detailed.

@rischa 

Truth be told, I have not heard a tube power amplifier. All the tube setups I have heard in showrooms, audio shows, and friends’ are all integrated. With the exception of lab12 pre1 and suara that I auditioned alongside Lab12 Integre4. The Suara is excellent power amplifier btw and do consider auditioning it if possible. Looking through audiogon earlier there is currently a BAT V56SE for sale. I’ve heard BAT’s higher end stuff and they were certainly impressive.

I would not assume more watts automatically mean bigger sound. My Cobra produces less than half the power of my Lab12, yet it throws bigger more expansive sound. 

Many ways to go. Are you committed to separates? 

Better places to spend your HiFi $ than that.

The AR 50 INT should do the job. You mention

reliability to be important. Tubes do not equal reliability.

I use a Pass INT 25, rated to 65wpc, which sadly I must sell due to new speakers.

I use a ANK 4.1x DAC which has tubes.  

My Pass can be had for $4k. Not a scratch on it, more reliable than

anything on your list and only 4 years old. 

A used Rogers High Fidelity integrated might show up close to your price range.  Class A, 112 watts.  
 

@ohlala, which Mark Levinson amp?

@bluethinker, thanks for this! I’ve been looking at a lot of the 90s and early 2000s era CJ amps. I like that they have some high-power el34 based amps. It would allow me to justify expensive el34 quads since I’d be able to use them with both amps.

I’m probably leaning more toward the Audio Reseach sound, however.

All I can add is my mark levinson amp was markedly better than a VAC 160 amp with my 4367s. It was actually far better than any other amp I tried. 

@auroravengeance, the Torii is only 20wpc and the 4349s measure more like 89db sensitive. That said, even the 20 watts from the Torri Jr sound incredible through the 4349s -- no complaints at all. But I do know the 50 watts from the Muzishare and the 90 watts from the Denon bring something to the music I like a lot, especially with large-scale symphonic music. It’s not necessarily better than the Torri Jr, but different in a way that I like having it as an option.

I’m open to integrateds, but I’m surprised you think a $5000 amp paired with a $3000 preamp isn’t as good as integrateds in this price range? I’ll have to give that some thought.

Beautiful gear, @fthompson251.

Thanks for rhe rec @artemus_5 -- I will check it out.

@ghdprentice, I'm very drawn to Audio Research. I think the 150SE is overkill, but the VT80SE might be perfect to start with. There is actually one for sale local to me for $4300.

No decisions until after Axpona!

I have the Conrad Johnson Classic 120 with EL34 tubes. I bought it used for around $6k. It’s a truly wonderful amp with 125 watts into 8 ohms. 
 

Conrad Johnson also makes a Classic 60, which will be half the power and cheaper. 
 

Big Conrad Johnson fan here. 

Nothing is better than Quicksilver M60.

They have reputable reliability and superb design.

The 6SN7 hybrid amp we build  ask John Rutan about it at Audio Connection.  For an inexpensive integrated Line Magnetics 22 wpc amp sounds great.