In 1978, I was playing my vintage 1976 Khorns extremely loud (Cheap Trick Live at Budokan) and I fried both woofers. I didn’t damage the tweeters or midranges which does seem strange now. At that time, I called Klipsch, and they sent me two new drivers for free! I was using a McIntosh MC 2100 at the time of the incident.
I assume I could get my Klipschorns to measure better with digital processor, but at the cost of colorations of that processor, nothing that signal passes through doesn't have sound signature. I don't want a single change here from the status quo. And whats not to like in my ss or imaging department, illusion of live performers in room. Life size, fully dimensional, height, width, depth all in proper proportion, well defined on sound stage. Sound stage spreads across room, far into room, well past my listening position, the only thing missing I've heard with previous setups and speakers is that sound stage doesn't extend outside and behind speakers on front wall, Klipschorn required placement impinges on this.
Most importantly, I don't have to work at all in order to imagine this, this is the sound quality I get from each and every listening session and it lasts over many hours, five and six hour listening sessions not uncommon. I'll remain satisfied until we get visual 3 dimensional holograms to go along with our music. And I'm not saying my imaging couldn't possibly get better, but why would one feel the need to change out something that isn't a problem. Back to the point of this thread. OP reiterates his son only cares about loud, Klipschorn with 300 watts will provide that! The issue then becomes whether the drivers can handle that wattage without frying. For sure you'd need a Kipschorn with the tweeter protection circuit, not all have it. Next I'd be worried about mid driver, diaphragms on stock Klipschorn drivers are pretty fragile, especially on a vintage Klipschorn. Don't know if new production has increased durability?
sns, in order to make it work you would have to use a multi channel processor like a Trinnov Altitude 8 and use it's DSP to create the two cross over points then tri amp the K horns and measure the group delay of each driver. You delay the early drivers to match the latest ones. Then you would run the room control measurement and finally you would use a measurement microphone system to check the results and make adjustments in delay as indicated and correct the frequency response so that the two channels match as perfectly as possible. I can usually get within 1 dB from 100 Hz to 10 kHz. I think that would do the trick but I could never be 10% sure without hearing the results. This approach works perfectly with Sound Labs speakers but the Acoustat 2+2 did not get there all the way and I am not sure why, probably the transformer I used.
I am not trying to be derogatory in talking about this. Only a small percentage of audiophiles have the experience of hearing a system that images at the level I am talking about. I doubt you would ever hear it at an audio show. In my experience only one system ever imaged this way without digital correction, the very first time I heard this, and as I said above I was flabbergasted. It took me another decade to get a system to imaging that way and it was probably more luck than brains the first time, I was using Apogee Divas.
My wife is dragging me out for a bike ride. Talk about it later.
Well, I have been posting this sentence for several years, so I guess I should win multiple-year awards.
Tell you what, go to your Klipsch dealer and listen to a spoken voice and then do it with, oh, I don't know, an ACCURATE speaker like one from Magnepan that does not color the sound.
Or, you could do what we used to do at my shop. Put your hands on your face in the shape of a horn and speak to someone and then move them away. Hear the difference? No? Then buy whatever garbage horn you love, pal.
I like russ69’s advice, and you can also get Belle Klipsch’s if you want a better looking speaker.
I sold Klipsch’s when I was in college and I sold more Belle’s and La Scala’s than K-horns because they were much easier to place in a room.
Another consideration is the fact that your son is likely to move multiple times during his career and Belle’s/La Scala’s will be much easier to place in a new room. The best sounding Klipsch system I ever sold was a pair of Belle’s to a wealthy doctor who had a 60’ x 30’ listening room, but no corners. He powered them with an Audio Research power amp and in his room, they were the BEST SOUNDING Klipsch’s I ever head.
And I believe jasonbourne52 makes a good point with his JBL recommendation. Less expensive, somewhat similar sound, and MUCH EASIER to move.
It is hard for me to imagine listening to a Khorn w/o serious modifications. Some of the inherent problems of this speaker in stock form (older models) just get worse as volume is increased. Some of these mods arent terribly expensive.
mijostyn, yeah sure, I've never heard real three dimensional imaging. How would you know, have you been here in my listening room? Also, I did state imaging of STOCK Klipschorn was SURPRISING, taking in account it's design liabilities.
My Klipschorns are most definitely not stock, only the bass cabinet remains stock, they image spectacularly, performers in room illusion. Some of the mods I've done are available to anyone, they can improve the imaging of Klipschorn.
Also, in the realm of someone looking for speakers that will shake the room, when did imaging become important? I didn't bring up that aspect of performance, simply responding to you.
I would also like to recommend the crite’s speaker (formally known as the cornscala). I absolutely love mine. I run it with a McIntosh mx110z and Bob Latino ST-120. You can save quite a bit of $$$ with these and get a hell of a lot more bass than the k-horns. They’re quite efficient at about 100db per 1 watt. They’ll rock out, but I’m also amazed how well they do during delicate passages as well.
K horn will play loud and if they are not to his liking hold value on resale and if he does like can be the last loudspeaker one needs I know more than a few running K horns till the grave. But I do see many logic fallacies posted above maybe consider those who post such to be moot.
Khorns will rock your son, I owned a pair of 93’s for many years, and still have a set of 00 LaScalas, but I recommend a tube setup over solid state, they seem to sound alot warmer with tubes in my opinion. They do need corners, or he can build a false wall designed for Khorns with diagrams on the net(not expensive). I would also recommend he join the Klipsch website and the forums section there has a wealth of information he can utilize, enjoy!
@sns , no they don't. You are mistaking venue depth for 3 dimensional imaging. I have spent hours with K horns set up perfectly using early Krell amplification. These speakers as they are, are incapable of relaying the third dimension. This is a common misunderstanding many listeners have because they have never heard a system image correctly. I was an audiophile for almost 20 years before I heard a system that imaged the third dimension and it was not my system. I was flabbergasted. I spent another 10 years trying to get my system to image the same way and to understand what the requirements for proper imaging were. They all center on the speakers and the room. For multiway speakers the crossover, group delays and phasing are major issues. The K horns major fault is that it has three different group delays. The difference at the woofer/midrange crossover which use to be at 500 Hz and is now at 350 Hz is huge. Lowering the crossover may have helped a bit but I would be stunned if it resolved the problem entirely. That crossover is right at middle C.
Look into Cornscala, if you’re reasonably handy you can build a pair. I built a pair using the eliptrac midrange horns for a second low watt tube system. They move lots of air and bass has a tactile feel. Nice midrange and detail
Nice company, LOUD speakers (very efficient), but not very accurate.
Sorry, horns belong on the top of poles at high school football stadiums, not in boxes in your house.
Not sure if they are still around, but Cerwin-Vega made some wildly loud speakers for many years. Not very accurate, but certainly better than any horn.
If they are not around any more, ask for some super-efficient speakers at your dealer and I am sure they will have some.
It is a very good choice if you buy a klipschhorn made prior to 1965 he will pay more for it but the money spent is well worth the extra time and cost to find one good luck searching but when he does he will be so much more happy.
My buddy upgraded from his lascala’s to the Khorns and he nearly returned them, he was so used to the huge mid bass boost of the lascala’s that the k horns took some getting used to. They don’t sound like they’re putting out any bass but they do pressurize a room and if you play lp’s and like tubes...
Loud isn't going to be the problem, thats the easy part...
But, if the room is too small, and you start going over 100db, something changes...
I have a pair or Cornwalls - heavily modded - which I am super happy with.
My room is approx 11X17??? And if I go over 95db, something changes. Granted, the room is not treated, but, its a forgiving room and I've managed to position the chair/speakers so they work quite well. What I've noticed, is the musicality goes away, and the sound gets muddled and noisy.
Been meaning to look into big speakers/small room/high db's and how the room getting pressurized can be effecting this distortion/noise.
Save a lot of money and get a pair of the new JBL Century 100's. A fraction of the cost of the K-Horns! Capable of rockin' out without driving listeners from the room!
Klipschorns can produce wonderful dimensional imaging if set up properly and fed with the right equipment. My other speakers are Merlin VSM-MM, highly modified with Duelund VSF caps in crossover, bam modded with far too many boutique parts to go through here. Even stock, the Merlins are image champs, very much part of Bobby's design intention. My Klipschorns image as well or better than the Merlins, wonderful 3D center image and plenty of depth, Merlins only superior in that they 'disappear' to a greater extent. Mid freq material does 'stick' to the mouth of mid horn to some extent. Keep in mind my Klipshcorns are highly modded, but I do recall even in stock form imaging was not the problem. I've also been through single driver, open baffle speaker ownership, imaging is extremely important to me, Klipschorns can image, total falsehood they can't. Yes, stock Klipschorns do have imaging liabilities in the sense of driver placement, horn mouth, room placement limitations, amazing they image as well as they do. My modded Klipschorns excel in this department.
Agan, I just don't see Klipschorns as head banger speakers, yes they do macro dynamics, but so do lots of speakers. The special thing about Klipschorns are the MICRO DYNAMICS, even in stock form never heard such immediacy, the sense of live performers in room. Add SET and their inherent sense of the same and you get magic. But superior micro dynamics and loudness brought about by extreme efficiency doesn't add up to head banger speaker.
I will modify my original negative comment about them not being head banger speakers, In the sense that I don't see Klipschorns as rocker speakers, in stock form I don't believe they do well with metal, or hard rock, bass not done justice for this type music, too round, lack of control, won't be doing the slam thing. They'll do much better with electronic dance music, bass will be harder hitting, synthesized bass works much better, you can get some slam here. Subs will be needed to reach EDM lower bass frequencies.
Now, my modded Klipshcorns can do any genre of music well, just this weekend listening to Alice Cooper, Love it to death, an album I hadn't listened to in years, never heard it so alive and compelling in my life, brought me back to my young adolescent self! And EDM played on my system would certainly entice a dance party. The major problem with the Klipschorn in stock form is timbre, tonality, they simply lack the naturalness required for long term listening pleasure, even at a party. I'd expect they would initially blow a party crowd away, but over time fatigue would set in. I'll reiterate mids will begin to shout, mids bothered me in stock form within minutes. Better supply lots of beer and other mind altering substances so listener fatigue doesn't set in! Perhaps your son has heard about the new fad of house concerts using Klipschorns, many double stacked. Around where I live the people giving these concerts are more about various folk genres, perhaps some EDM mixed in. These are generally not head banging concerts, they are house based, moderate volume, even in student housing areas they can only play so loud for so long. I totally get why many don't like Klipschorns and/or any horn loudspeakers. Improper horn design and materials, driver and driver placement liabilities, crossover component liabilities, room placement liabilities. Add it up, you got problems, redesign and upgrade components you get natural, live performers in room with you. Inherently superior micro dynamic performance is font of magic from horns, add proper timbre and speaker alignment, sympathetic system matching, proper room, proper placement in room, get every i dotted and t crossed, you get sublime! Bottom line, for me Klipschorns are a speaker with enough inherent goodness to draw you in, but with enough flaws to drive you away. I get the polarized response to the speaker, I guess some can hear past the flaws, others can't. Being an inveterate modder I saw the flaws as fertile ground for improvement and the inherent positive qualities as motivation to fix the flaws.
I sense this thread isn't going to make any difference whether or not he'll purchases them. I assume he's obsessed with owning a pair, and I can understand the lure.
However, your son is on the wrong path for his intended use - these are probably one of the worse speakers for playing loud and retaining any real musical qualities. There are so many other choices he would be much better off with, but he's likely not entertaining other options, which is too bad.
Hopefully, this failure will be a good lesson for him down the road.
+1 @fatdaddy2 A pair of klipschorns will be wasted in this situation. The recommendation of a pair of CVs is spot on, although add a pair of cheap subs for good effect.
I'll bet dollars to donuts the OPs son doesn't have a room that will support khorns. IMHO you need to have them on at least a 17' wall to get the best performance. But when the stars align, you'll be hard pressed to beat them without spending a lot more $$.
1+ jallan, any frequency response problems can be managed but there is no way you can get them to image properly. They will do the basic 2 dimension image but that is it. You will never get that sense of space around the instruments like they are standing in your room. Jallan is probably correct. The woofer is five feet behind the rest of the loudspeaker and the midrange 18" behind the tweeter. You have three different group delays. We had them in the store comparing them to Magneplanar 3.6i's and the difference in imaging was night and day. It would be an interesting experiment to tri amp the K horns and manage the delays digitally to see what happens.
I always wanted to like Klipsch speakers but could never quite get there. I've heard. Chorus, Forte, Belles and the K Horn, their flagship. I heard rock music through the K-Horn (your interest) back in '83 at a hi-fi shop. Not impressed. Folks here who mate a sub to their Ks know what they're talking about, because Ks standing alone won't produce the sort of bass your son appears to want.
I used the foam pipe insulation from the hardware store to create the seal on mine. My feeling is the bigger the room the better they sound. They seem to need space to open up but man do they ever fill a room. The other great thing is I didn't spend a lot of time fiddling with speaker placement.
300 watts, oh mercy. Get a good insurance policy. That boy is gonna scramble the NEIGHBORS brains..
30 watt for Corners or KHs, heck even La Scala. NO SS at least on the older original Klipsch stuff.
The Mac has one good thing tone control. I don’t know maybe it won’t slice to the bone but SS and the old horns, I’m runnin’ the other way..
Maybe the way a Pass or First Watt is voiced, maybe..
Definite ear plugs AND muffs for me though.... :-)
The BASS thing. Oh he needs 4 new 21" 90 db E subs from Dayton.. 10 cf boxes aught to work. LOL lift the house off the foundation.. A pair of NU12K Behringer aught to do it.. 20,000 watts or so.. You know a little BASS reinforcement.
The Klipschorn hasn't been a speaker of so much talk for 60 years for no reason. There's something interesting, some say magical, there. It's an iconic audio piece and looks beautiful in the right room.
If he wants loud chest thumping sound with no perceivable limit, then yes go for it. They do great in the kickdrum frequency area. If he wants bone rattling bass then add a sub.. However, when I crack mine up with bassy tracks like "Flight of the Cosmic Hippo" I swear they go deeper than they're given credit for. Wow.
Either way, they're meant for jazzy acoustic music which is where their flavor meets the mood IMO.
Btw, I run them on Mcintosh and PS Audio M700 class D amps.. Both sound supurb and get really loud with zero distortion. It's a party setup for sure.
I owned them for years and really enjoyed them with all genres of music. They can be played very loud, but that's not their finest virtue. If you have the space and a good system preceding them, there will be beautiful music. Maybe not the most accurate, but beautiful.
Heard a lot of people’s Klipschorns, in a lot of different rooms, even in 4 corners and even stacked, and been impressed maybe twice. It’s one of those speakers that posers buy for the name and don’t dial them in well. Shouty and piercing more times than not IMO.
I sold Klipschorn for a couple of years. That treble from the horn was sword sharp,the imaging gawdawful from the extreme lack of time coherence between drivers. Just not for me, though I imagine the distortion characteristics of lower-order harmonic distortion rich SET’s probably match up well. I can think of many other speakers with much deeper and better bass response.
Hope you're aware Klipschorn can run on as little as a couple watts, 300w of 7300 is complete overkill. I'd never like Klipschorns with high powered solid state amp, but then I'm sensitive to things like timbre, tonality. I run my highly modded Klipschorns with SET and push pull tube amps, much more sympathetic partnering imo. I don't consider Klipshcorns to be head banger speaker, really need subs for that kind of bass. Yes, they'll get plenty loud, but might run you right out of room, in stock form they can get shouty at loud volumes. They also need proper corner placement with extreme care in getting speakers to seal with wall for maximum bass output, they also want a larger room for optimum sound quality. While I love my Klipshcorns, I'd not recommend these for what I presume you're looking for.
I’d personally not want to hear those very loud unless the source room and equipment were all totally dialed in. Horns can get ear piercing fast. More wiggle room to go loud and enjoy the sound with mellower speakers. Just my opinion. Keep us posted.
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