Is There Any Reason To Buy A Reel-To-Reel Machine Nowadays??

Why, so you can listen to dubs of second or third generation masters at exorbitant prices? Digital is it now and the analog guys need to get use to it. You want to be analog, buy a turntable, you can still get records at a decent price. Reel to reel machines are like Ferraris. They make rich guys look cool. 

Silly answer above. R2R’s are fun to look at, operate and to listen to.

mitch4t

No one is making new recordings on reel-to-reel ...
Please chime in for reasons to buy an open-reel deck today.

There are a handful of places with interesting offerings, such as the Tape Project and Acoustic Sounds. They're too pricey for my tastes, but I keep my reel machines around to play some historic recordings that I have. Someday I'll get around to transferring them to digital.

I have three RTR tape decks: Teac, Pioneer and a Sony tube deck. Plus a collection of vintage open-reel tapes. Without the last there would be no reason to own any tape decks. The format has been obsolete for decades! Making new copies on blank tape from LPs or digital sources is a waste of time and money. 

Ever notice at HiFi/AV shows today, most high end manufacturers use R2R tape to demonstrate their equipment. Wonder why? All I can say is I just got back into R2R and purchased a fully refurbished Revox B77 MK2, HS 2T machine. First tape (15ips, NAB) I purchased to go with it was Lyn Stanley London With A Twist, Live at Bernies ( https://lynstanley.com/product/reel-to-reel-london-with-a-twist-live-sampler/ ). As close to live music I have ever heard in my home, staggeringly realistic. Absurdly expensive, but, if you want the very best SQ format available, R2R is probably it. Of course, not all pre-recorded tapes are this good; some are OK, some are awful.

SQ aside, R2R running at 15ips on 10.5" NAB reels looks stunning to me, guaranteed to get visitors attentions. Not so streaming or CDs.

I love my R2R, an am surprised that audiophiles who spend a LOT of money for minor improvements don’t add R2R to their systems. It’s not easy that’s for sure, but very rewarding. I progressed bit by bit, settled on Teac’s last Prosumer x2000r and prior x1000r. If you get into it, go for 6 head auto reverse. These decks are built like tanks.

The content is limited, BUT, the R2R tapes are my BEST sounding source (even though S/N is the lowest ratio).

I did many listening shootouts here, same music CD/LP/R2R. Everyone chooses LP over CD; Everyone chooses R2R over LP. And Everyone chooses Tubes over SS.

Why? The S/N progressively worsens while appreciation increases, it ain’t a love of noise. I’m 73, after listening, reading ... I came to believe/sum it up: Analog ’gets’ the overtones ’right’.
..............................

I play mostly 4 track stereo pre-recorded tapes, 7-1/2 ips. 50-60 years old, amazingly they still sound terrific. Actually my 2 Track Stereo Tapes from 1956 sound the absolute best, 65 years old. Wider tracks, like faster speed means more magnetic material for the content. 15 ips; pro 30 ips even better, but no pre-recorded content at those speeds.

I bought over 500 R2R years ago, let’s guess avg around $10. plus $3.50 shipping. Later, I sold about 150 of them. The 7-1/2 ips versions have gotten rarer, and the costs have gone way way up.
.....................................

You hear things you do not hear on LP or CD versions, i.e.

Moody Blues, original band, strong piano based blues, the intro to the 1st song is a mess on LP, it sounds great on the tape. Curiously, the CD also sounds a mess on the intro, it must have been made from an LP master, I guess the tapes were made from the tape masters at the time.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/113891127741?hash=item1a8470b1bd:g:5EEAAOSwFDddgZ-1

Iron Butterfly

https://www.ebay.com/itm/333887968944?hash=item4dbd4616b0:g:elgAAOSwDrdgJteW

this one is the less desirable slower 3-3/4 ips version. On my 7-1/2 ips you can hear him drunkenly say ’Garden of Eden’

Beatles

https://www.ebay.com/itm/184891757815?hash=item2b0c6854f7:g:OvgAAOSwpDRgvS6-

Sgt. Peppers (again, the less desirable 3-3/4 ips version). On my 7-1/2 ips version, you hear subtleties of their voices, you gain a lot of respect for Paul’s bass playing talents ... I played it for my nephew, a musician, I glanced sideways, tears were starting to flow.
....................................

Jazz, Rock, Crooners, the era when the greats became great all exist on pre-recorded tape, then it stops. I don’t know when they stopped making them, but the content is limited by that cessation.

Technicians with knowledge about these things are getting more rare these days, unless someone gets really involved and devotes a good time on them. Generally spares can be found relatively easy depending on deck and blank tapes are not so expensive. But still it is the most expensive format to keep. Surely an eye catcher with great sonics. Currently own a Revox B77MKII 4 track, two speed 3 1/4 & 7 1/2, a box full of spares and a good number of tapes, mostly RMG SM911, SM468 and Maxell XLI. 

Home made tapes are darn good, but not as astounding as pre-recorded tapes made from 1" 30 ips masters.

We need to be realistic about the difference between pre-recorded from masters and home recorded (which has validity, but not the same SQ).

On 1/4" tape? Record What? Copy an already compromised version, i.e. LP, CD? What speed: 30 ips;15 ips; 7-1/2 ips; 3-/4 ips?

We used to record live radio broadcasts, otherwise unavailable; live musician friends; borrowed LP’s. Many people made long playing compilations on 10-1/2" reels, even using the slower 3-3/4 ips speed for a huge amount of music on 1 tape. Fun, party: press play, walk away.

I bought a collection of 17 tapes pre-recorded by a dude named ’Stoneman’. He hand painted the box edges with pastel paints, a great collection of 60’s rock. They are a treat, sound good, he knew what he was doing, but not the same SQ as studio produced.

Today, everything is accessible, and a 1/4" copy will not sound superior like a pre-recorded one will.

.............................................

check out these guys methods

https://tapeproject.com/why-tape/

I see audiophiles spending crazy money on equipment upgrades when the fact is the difference will not be as great as hearing a superior-sounding format in your system. Going from a 10K amp to a 20K amp will not make as big of an SQ improvement as hearing a different format altogether. Nothing sounds like TAPE! Put 2-3K on a reel to reel deck and spend the rest on tapes. I’ve posted on this topic last year.
Reel to reel is not meant to replace your existing formats, there’s not enough music available and most of us here already have a turntable we’re happy with. But reel to reel gives us an opportunity to start listening to master tape quality for 2-3K, a price some of us pay for a cable or a tweak.
Also, it’s good to have friends that are into tapes. Making copies of master tapes for one another really helps with the cost and a good way to build a collection. I’m all in for making new friends...even if you’re just starting out.

https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/4524

Anthony

I heard a great R2R setup at the hifi store in Gig Harbor WA (cool place, cook dudes ... beer on tap!). Sounded wonderful. I've looked at the prices of tapes though, and they're steep. If I had more money, maybe. I'd rather have an R2R than a turntable, arguably.

@scar972 I was realizing the importance of FORMAT last night. I got a mini library digital of music from someone I am helping. For the most part I had many of the tunes on the library from CD and SACD. However, the digital copies on this mini library was extraordinary. Way better than my FLAC copies using dbPoweramp.

It turned out the mini library was created from pristine vinyl involving a cleaning process, specific turntables, A2D convertors, and software that the FBI uses. Now that is an audiophile level of crazy,  but the sound is fabulous.

I managed to TAG each of the 200GB of music with a specific TAG so I can find just those on ROON from my own music. A little bummed out about my own collection now. I re-subscribed to Qobuz to see if any of the Hi-Res there match what I heard on the library. Not yet.

The improvement between this format and my other stuff is way more than any component that I replaced.

Some claim that nothing can beat high-end R2Rs.

I thought the big boys were using the RTR as a digital source? Am I wrong? 

russ69

I thought the big boys were using the RTR as a digital source? Am I wrong?

I think so. There can only be disadvantages to putting digital on tape rather than HD or SSD.

"...I think so. There can only be disadvantages to putting digital on tape rather than HD or SSD..."

You can put a lot of data on a tape. I think big computer systems still use tape for backup? I think? 

Silly answers above. Taping adds a generation.
Veil. If you think THAT is euphonic you got on the wrong boat. Unless you own original recordings there is no reason for one except nostalgia. The "tape" sound is readily replicated with a transfer function. Kinda like a software tube buffer.
I have a wall of tapes I don’t listen to because I have better copies of all the tracks.Like the original LP. Anyone who thinks the tape sounds better is hypnotized by the spinning reels.
I have better things to do than calibrate via MRL to make inferior copies that I don’t need..
I’ve worn out 8 R2Rs. Their time has passed.

The long answer being hell no.

The deal with tape is the quality of the tape and what it's being used for.
Magnetic tape for digital storage is a great idea. It's a physical media that can be recovered pretty easy for one. The right kind of tape will last for 100 years AND can be transferred without data loss.
In the analog world Tape is still king. The problem has always been WHAT you can get on 7.5-30 ips recordings. When R2R was at it's height, you could find a LOT of classical or contemporary music.

But POP, Jazz,  Rock and Roll, MOST Country western, wasn't on R2T.
SOME not a lot. I had about 35 masters 50 2nds and 50 or so 3rds. 

Well they went with the 750 Fairchild, RtR (Otari) MC240s and C22 in a theft..

Guess what there is even LESS now..

I like a R2R simple as that. I like to record my own stuff and play it back.

I'm NOT a source snob. I use to get high quality recordings that I liked.

Who else is there to please? Were the recordings perfect? Perfect for me!!

Does anything else matter? Same with vinyl I really enjoy the old 78s mono and about 5-10 watts from a MC225.
I know they will be in heaven.. :-) Pop, Crack!.. Not to often..

Thank to the mighty Puffin.. All kinds of thing are possible pretty dog gone CHEAP. The new Decware ZP3/tape and the Puffin.. WOW..
Now STL KEQ-200 balanced big valve EQ for the Otari.. Double WOW.

Digital? OK.. I like it too.. I like ALL of it.. Including transistor radios, and Victrola's

Regards

Yes-if you can't get to a laundromat.......

(Sorry-I've been drinking, and I thought that was oh-so Clever!) 

ETSY and eBay are good sources for prerecorded tapes at fairly reasonable prices. When combined with a compander such as the Dolby 3-BX, nothing else really comes close to reel to reel sounds. 

I have mint Tandberg TD20A SE aligned by SoundSmith and collection of about 300 factory pre-recorded 71/2ips tapes - mostly classical, from 1958 to 70s.
The machine is fun to look at and use. On well recorded tapes (mostly from pre - high speed dubbing era) the sound is amazing and there is a feel of unlimited dynamics.
For DOLBY B tapes I use Nakamichi NR-200 Dolby B-C noise-reduction (NR) processor.

Is RTR is convenient? Much less than CD player. Is it fun? Big time!

In the 80’s I bought a Teac X-10R R2R, dbx 224 Type II noise reduction unit, and dbx 3bx dynamic range expander.  I recorded about 30 reels of my favorite vinyl albums of that time.  Each reel holds 6 hours of music.

I’ve got some decent gear, but the R2R and dbx components is the best sound to me.  I have mine sitting in a Teac rack, which also makes it very functional and cool to look at.  The remote control has about a 10’ cord.

224’s are a great compromise but they used really cheap ass switches that drop contact. Like Otari.  And its motors need to be rebuilt before they self destruct. No replacements are available except from a boneyard. Like I said if you think nostalgia is fun, have at it.
Been there, done that.

HO....R2R tape still has this romance about it.  I used to own a Revox A77 & the 10.5 reels....
( I believe ) Mid to later '80's, was using a VHS to record audio...touted at the time to have 'near digital' quality....
...and it actually Worked....*L*

Cheap seats, J ;)

Well, looks like a few others are doing it.

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=reel+to+reel+tape+recorder&_sacat=0&LH_Sold=1&LH_Complete=1&_sop=16

I miss 2 of my R2R tapes, East West by Paul Butterfield Blues Band, prerecorded 3.75 ips.  The second was a recording I made while working in an audio store, a never released preview of Fever by Bruce Springsteen with the original E St Band.  It was in acapella, via FM radio.  A fellow employee borrowed and never returned it.  The store was Audio Lab on 20th Ave and Indian School Rd.  The radio station was KDKB  a Dwight Karma Broadcasting affiliate, downtown Phoenix.  Those were the days.

I sold Revox in the 70’s, played around with both the A77 and A700. Great sound, but…tape wears, loses oxide, it’s mechanical, wildly impractical. It does sound better than lp’s, at least the direct recordings I made were. But what a pain in the ass to store the tapes.

Looks like others are selling it ...

This is one of those "Because I want to" moments, and there's nothing wrong with that, but unless you have lots of tapes that you really want to play that can't be duplicated any other way (if you taped simulcasts from your stereo or when they played full sides without interruption, band tapes, your kids or parents talking on them), I'd say no unless you really want to.  NOS tapes are expensive, prerecorded tapes are, what, 40-50 years old?  Every time you play it you lose a little bit of the information, finding someone who will work on it and, more importantly, finding parts for it gets exceedingly difficult, the noise level and dynamic range aren't quite up to snuff with today's offerings, worrying about the dreaded tape-eating monster showing up and so on.  I've read of people who really prefer their RTR in place of other sources but me myself never went down that rabbit hole so I have no stake in pursuing that.

Nothing like spending the cost of an entire season of concerts on one album, that you probably already have multiple copies of.  Rich fool's hobby reel-to-reel is (says Yoda).

Maybe not as good as R2R, but I regularly still use my two Aiwa 3 head cassette decks. I use them to listen to my many pre recorded cassettes, as well as taping from Fm radio or from lp's. I use them not only because they sound great, but because they are fun to use. Never sought out a R2R, due to costs and unfamiliarity. Cassettes are much cheaper and easier to come across, both blank tapes and pre recorded music. My decks are the Aiwa AD f770 and f660. Also have a Nak bx100, but it's apart to replace belts and idler tire.

https://www.nagraaudio.com/

If you want a professional tape recorder to record live music.

Cheers!

I have always loved the R2R sound. What about HIFI VCR? Long ago I watched the movie, Eddie and the Cruisers 2 and just loved the soundtrack. I bought the CD and it didn't sound nearly as good as the Super HIFI VCR tape. I was astounded. I asked about it at my upscale Hifi store and was told that due to size of tape that the VCR recordings equaled or were better than the best R2R's and were then being used to record in studios. Thoughts?

I had a sizable stock of NOS blank reels I got out of storage last year and bought a refurbished Teac X-10M -- a two track deck capable of 15 i.p.s. I love it to death. It just sounds fantastic to my ears.

I've been dubbing LPs and 45s to 'hi-rez' (24/192) for many years, have a Nakamichi CR-7 (fantastic deck especially with metal tape, but cassette just can't beat RTR), and a Pioneer RT-707 (OK for 7.5 i.p.s. but no match for the Teac). 

When it's all said and done a good tape with the Teac sounds better to my ears than anything else. A good recording on an audiophile vinyl press sounds better to me dubbed to reel than any other of the formats I listed above. They all have their place, but as the end user who's in it for the sound more than anything else, I have to say RTR is a rich and wonderful experience. Yes, it finicky, it's not convenient, I'll have to get it maintained regularly...but so what. I don't care when I get this kind of pleasure from the sound.

Hello,
If I could get the R2R and the music I love to listen to at a good price I would but good analog is not cheap or convenient for that matter.  I love to listen to it but I would rather buy better speakers, amp, preamp, DAC before I went on the full analog kick. I love spinning vinyl. In fact I am spinning vinyl as I write this. Stuff that I can’t find on digital. The minimum I think you are dropping on a decent analog media rig like Vinyl or R2R is $1500 to $2000. I would rather buy a Puritan PSM156 power conditioner or vibration control equipment for my gear like IsoAcoustics. Only because these things make all your music sound better regardless of the type you listen to. Don’t even get me started how good it is to add subwoofers to your system. MC has $5000 Tekton speakers added the vibration control platform by Townsend for probably a few grand. I have listened to these Tekton speakers at Dave Thompson’s house who is a reviewer for StereoTimes. They were really good! I am in the process of upgrading my foundation system. Amp, Preamp, DAC, cables, vibration control,  speakers, Power conditioner,  and subs. Mainly because if you have a great foundation you can listen to whatever you want. If you have not done this it’s like buying the $5k racing tires for your used $3k Honda Civic. If you want to hear the difference of what a good system can do with the music you already have and live near the Chicagoland area this is the store I buy my gear from. They let you try before you buy and I believe they have used R2R units for you to try out. https://holmaudio.com/
I don’t want to have to sell gear I wasn’t happy with due to buyers remorse. They do let you trade in used gear towards a purchase which I did for my surround sound setup last year. I hope this helped put things in perspective. 

Back in the 70’s, I loved my Sony R2R deck. The tape section on my Pioneer receiver was better than the phono section, and nothing beat the tape sound for me.  Plus, a local radio station had an evening program intended for recording whole albums, with recording level signals and everything — those were the days!

About 6 months ago, I considered buying a Teac deck from the late 70’s that a neighbor wanted to sell.  After posting the question to Audiogon, I found that the source material for R2R was much too expensive for me, so I passed on the purchase.  Rich guys’ hobby, for sure.  The guy still has the deck, an A6300 as I recall, as far as I know.

I make party tapes from LPs played on my Technics SL-1200G using modern blank tape on an Otari MX-5050B2-II (1/2track, 1/4") and Teac A3300-SX (1/4 track, 1/4"), both at 7.5 ips.  The decks were refurbished by Reel Pro Sound Guys, both had light use and great head life left.  

The sound is fantastic, and my friends think they look cool.  The dynamic range and S/N seems excellent with modern tape.  True, the rec/play amps are decades old, but both machines use discreet transistors.  I think the tape sounds better than dubs to my Tascam DA-3000 in 192/24 mode.

Yes because they are Big and Sexy!! You can see the music being "made" as the reels go round and the meters dance! A digital streamer won't get you laid.

Don't let any of the "digital" folk take you off what you are hearing.  Digital was originally designed for cost optimization, not high fidelity.  That is what Sony and Philips were looking for when they invented the CD player.  .MP3's are just the next step to lower cost.  Digital has improved markedly over the decades, with the highest quality digital sounding pleasant, though not up to a good reel to reel setup or turntable.

It is interesting: the biggest digital success story in the last 20 years, perhaps ever, was Steve Jobs.  But when he went home, this is what he listened to

https://www.speakerscornerrecords.com/news/details/18/steve-jobs-and-vinyl

Digital could probably be fixed (as mentioned in the article), but then it will be less cheap and convenient.

The big secret with reel to reel is the idler arm drive used in system.  There are other reasons, but the idler arm drive is probably the most important piece.

The problem is getting tapes and keeping reel to reels running.

Though you do now have an option that gets you 98% of the way there w/o the cost, inconvenience of tapes, and problems with getting the decks serviced.  Here, take a look at this:

http://www.idler-wheel-drive.com/science-art/drive-system/

I have one of these, and all the claims made are true.  My table is the best sounding source I've ever heard except for older pro Ampex reel to reels.  It even sounds better than the Tandberg I used to record live concerts in school.  Nantais does a very good job of explaining the advantages of idler arm technology.

It is definitely easier to deal with records over reel to reels, and recordings are generally cheaper on vinyl.

Just finished reading your review of the review of the Naim Solstice. Been out of vinyl 26 years, but it holds a place close in my heart. When I started listening critically to music I had a 4 track hard wired in one of my Hippiemobiles.
I'm sure some of you in bigger citys had this, but I was living in KC, MO and they would simulcast concerts via FM from Arrowhead Stadium. The first was Peter Frampton. Oh, I put my R2R on 15ips and made a really good recording. 
I'm surprised you members are even surprised that Decaware suggest this set up will blow away ANY analog source by far.
https://www.decware.com/newsite/UATAPE.html

I have absolutely no need - not even .1%, for a reel to reel. But I remember back in the 70’s when I was starting my audio journey, no serious audio guy was without a reel to reel. It’s damned cool, albeit useless. A relative has a 50 plus yr old Tandberg socked away in his basement, unused for years and he’s the original owner. I’d love to have that sitting on a shelf in my place!