Is there a DAC ranking list?

@tcotruvo - Congratulations - great to hear of your successful outcome! I recently went through the same revelation when moving from computer-based to server-based digital. For those who are doubtful of the benefits (as I was), provided your system has good resolve, there is indeed a discernible improvement.

I am going to submit the Theta Genviii s3 to this list as well, ask me or bulldogger as owners

OP,

Great!

Amazing isn’t it? There is almost no end to the improves possible.

The sound is AMAZING!  Before I bought this system, I was a daily music listener via earphones, so music has always been an important part of my life.  I listen while I bike ride.  Sometimes when I don’t feel like riding I’ll go anyway just to listen to music.  But this is a whole new experience - here’s what’s good about my new sound:

-  Even a very low levels, the music is still very clear, vibrant, musical, enjoyable

-  The sounds are so realistic, I sometimes look to see if they’re in the room

-  Music I don’t like - such a Mideastern style music - sounds good, enjoyable

-  I stay up very late listening

-  I can’t imagine how it could be improved

I wasn’t optimistic about what I could achieve because if you look at my room description you’ll see that it wasn’t designed for acoustics.  Now, like a lottery winner, I’ll be ready to take another chance on a future upgrade.  Who wouldn’t?

And contrast that with another endeavor in life that I have - roasting, grinding and brewing espresso - where I’ve had exactly  one ‘great’ espresso in 13 years of daily brewing…but I still keep trying anyway.

A 'one post' wonder. You could at least reference your source.

https://www.themasterswitch.com/best-dacs

OP,

Congratulations on your new Bluesound. It is so rewarding when you get a big jump in sound quality with a new piece of equipment. It is what can keep you in the pursuit for a lifetime. 

Love reading the DAC comparisons and sounds, but man...If my wife ever found out I was going to spend $150K on a DAC, she would say to me are you ____________  ____________!  Not saying a $150K DAC isn't good sounding, but will it be 149x better than a $1K DAC.

hey my system is entirely asr approved

i sit in the other room and enjoy it on my oscilloscope

i always follow the advice of people who have 1 post... i ordered all those dacs from amazon just now...

maybe you should just frequent ASR more often than here now that you have those DACs....Lol

You join today so you can post that the best dac is a RME?

i always follow the advice of people who have 1 post... i ordered all those dacs from amazon just now...

Congrats, you're at a perfect starting point. Now you can begin listening to a wider variety of music instead of equipment like many do here.

@kirstensegura007 

You join today so you can post that the best dac is a RME?

Hello,

Best overall DAC: RME ADI-2 DAC FS.
Best High & DAC: Cord Electronics Hugo 2.
Best budget less than DAC $ 200: Schiit Modi 3+
Perfect Portable DAC: Audio Quest Dragon Fly Cobalt.
Best DAC / Amp Combo: Cord Electronics Mojo.

Regards: Uninstall The Sims 2

UPDATE: I bought a Bluesound NODE 3rd gen, and connected it through an AiMesh WiFi repeater dual band 300+867Mpbs.  I started by tuning in to Radio Paradise MOA music.

WOW!!  I was impressed!!  Prior to this, I was pleased hearing a few notes on a few selections that sounded real and present.  With the above, everything sounded that way. I was looking for an upgrade, and I have more than I could have hoped for.  I'm going to sit back and enjoy this for a while!

I have cat5 wiring nearby,  Would using that be an improvement over using the repeater?

Does anyone have a suggested way to access free jazz radio stations on the NODE?  I’ll explore subscriptions after I settle in to how and what I want to listen to.

My background story is that due to work and outdoor play, I had stopped listening to music on my JBL L220 system and sold it.  I do listen to music trough my earphones daily.  Then I ran across a set of B&O BeoLab8000 speakers and decided to get back into listening.  Since then I’ve added 2 subwoofers, new earphones and now the NODE.  Every choice has been a good one so far.

My original post was to find a good value DAC because that had been suggested.  I ended up with a different outcome and it worked well for me.

The NODE is too far away from my chair to use my Moondrop Blessing 2 earphones, but I can plug them into my iPad and go back radio.garden jazz stations when the need arises.

@audioguy85 he specifically asked for a list.

Yeah, your ears.

Thanks for all the responses and input!  I appreciate your taking the time to look at my situation and comment on it.  I’ve ordered a Bluesound NODE.  Given my room and the rest of my equipment, it might be a good match to improve my music with what I have.  It’s about the quality of the sound, and also the interface and access to the music that I like.  If the NODE is a plus, I’ll look for the next step to improve my listening experience and will circle back to this thread to consider more of the suggestions.  I’ll also be working on my room acoustics.

 

05-21-2022 at 01:51pm 

Headphones for the win in that room. No question.

Yes, you are probably right.  My Moondrop Blessings sound great using the iPad Pro.  I noticed that sounds like xylophones and musical sticks often sound very realistic though my speakers.

Headphones for the win in that room. No question.

Is the Musician Pegasus available in the UK.?

I would second Musician Pegasus mentioned here earlier, great modern DAC design by a team who know what they are doing and a solid investment at £1000. I'd say it's a steal compared to some popular DACs. A versatile, robust R2R DAC that punches well above your current system.

You may add their Andromeda headphones amp later and further upgrade the system, and the DAC won't be a weak link by any measure. For just £850 on a used market it is way above the level of you current digital source. 

I am using the Aqua La Voce S3 R2R DAC which is excellent at 4x the price, and can easily recommend it, but I could easily live with the Musician Pegasus also, it's a proper DAC.

@jerrybj is right. John Darko still maintains the DAC ranking list. It is available to subscribers of his via Patreon. If I am not mistaken, it is available to those that subscribe to the US$10 tier. Personally, I found it useful. 

Shout out for SW1X DACs. I have the DAC III

@worldwidewholesales   Can you explain / expand upon this recommendation in more detail? Thanks.

I recommend that everybody buys their server/streamer first and then focuses on the DAC.

There are many DACs out there, ranking is almost impossible, we would never agree on criteria. In the dollar range suggested by the the OP, something like the RME ADI-2 DAC would be a contender, very well regarded. Brands like Schitt, Denafrips and Holo Audio are also in the mix. Chi-fi options from Topping etc definitely worth considering as well.
Now if you want to add streaming, well that opens a whole new can of worms, Bluesound Node is a contender at an entry level, from there you might look at Matrix Audio, Lumin, Auralic Altair G1 is a bit of a Swiss Army knife and worth considering for a few more bucks. My DAC of choice atm is an Auralic Vega G2.1, a great DAC with streaming capability, a bit more cost but not drug money.

The first question to ask yourself is what problem you're trying to solve. For example, when I bought a small-format desktop computer its sound output was awful because it used the minimal sound support on the motherboard and because there was so much electronic noise inside the box. I realized that this was a use case for the Griffin iMic I'd had in a drawer for years. Moving the D->A conversion outside the computer made a huge improvement even with a low-end, decades-old chip.

I took the same approach in the living room. My TV set is the hub for all the digital inputs, so I fed the TV's TOSlink optical digital output to an entry-level Schiit DAC and now hear a big improvement because the outboard DAC is so much better than what's in the TV.

So, how good is the DAC circuitry in the devices that are now in your system's signal chain? Adding a better DAC is a cost-effective way to improve the sound if what you have is marginal, just as choosing a better cartridge is the most cost-effective way to improve the sound you hear from your LPs.

"The CH Precision Factory certified $29K dac is a bargain with a HD streamer board. "

I just ordered three, one for each one of my homes.  I got a 10% discount because i am a senior citizen. hahaha

@smer319 

The CH Precision Factory certified $29K dac is a bargain with a HD streamer board. 

A fine example of the kind of comment that only a high end dealer living in their high end world might come out with.

I bet even Stereopile would baulk at uttering such obvious drivel.

Hi,

Just my 2 cents and I am an importer/distributor for audio brands.

We have A/B tested slightly over 100 DAC's and approximately 30 different servers/streamers. The most overlooked part of digital is the actual set up. Running a separate router, upgraded connection from the router to the server/streamer and the digital cable from the DAC to the server/streamer.

In terms of DAC's, my personal favorite is the 130 lbs Aries Cerat Kassandra. However as a combination and at a much more realistic price point I really like the Rockna DAC's and matching Rockna Wavedream Net server/streamer. If I had to keep just 1 DAC for the remainder of my life it would be the Aries Cerat Kassandra paired with the Pink Faun 2.16 Ultra server/streamer.

There is lots of good digital product but it very difficult to find digital manufacturers that build both a server/streamer with the matching DAC and clock them together perfectly. I recommend that everybody buys their server/streamer first and then focuses on the DAC.

These are just my opinions so please be gentle and have a nice weekend.

Cheers,

Based Upon the Responses…it looks like buying a Bluesound NODE would be the best next step.  That would replace streaming from my iPad Pro and AirPort Express.  Then I could follow up later with a better DAC.  
The responses will help me narrow down the best Value in a DAC.

What's the point with a ranking List?  "punch above their price category? "  Most of the choices, recommendations from just about any corner of the market are subjective.  Some reviewers go cheap and cheerful and don't believe in pricey models and the same goes for reviewers who are only interested in the best sound, screw price.  And of course the great middle ground.  Don't make a choice by what you hear on YOUTUBE!  It's fraught with so many reasons why that's not the best way to go that I think are obvious and self explanatory.  Maybe the biggest reason is that some reviewers are much better at demonstrations than others, kind of like the brightest, most vivid tv set on the floor.  I always find a good starting point with many things is to find someone whose taste sinks up with yours, and build relationships where you can.  Then go and listen, taste, touch, and lock eyes with whatever you can.

Dac's I own and sell

Wadax Reference DAC and streamer

CH Precision C1 will be upgraded to 1.2. All previous customers can get their Dacs upgraded.

Brinkmann Nyquist Mark 2

EMM Labs MA3

Hifi Rose 150 and RS250

NAD / Bluesound. 

Dac's should match the level of electronics, speakers etc you have. The Hifi Rose at $2495.00 rs250 is a great buy especially if you have a 2 channel/cinema system combo. The Wadax makes sense for guys who want ultimate systems, The CH Precision Factory certified $29K dac is a bargain with a HD streamer board. 

Its a personal taste thing.

The best DAC I have owned is the Doge 7.

Better than  Lumin X1, Auralic G2 or any if them, Berkley Audio Aplha, or Danafrips Terminator which I have all owned and tested with my system.

VAC 70/70 and Wilson Sasha 

Also much cheaper

Since we manufacturer audio products included a 101D DHT DAC with a separate 25lb power supply, we have heard so many DACs, etc.  There are no giant killers period.  There are good sounding DACs at their price points.  DACs in one persons system may not have the same SQ in your system.  We have 5 systems in our listening room in Northern New Jersey - all are welcome to come in and even bring some of your gear to hear how it may sound with the different speakers  we have in there.

You need to begin to lean what makes a component sound the way it does.  Tube vs SS.  Different tubes, different resistors, capacitors, chokes, etc.  Learn the basics and then you can get a better handle on what may work in your system.  I bet very few if any people hear have even heard a DHT product. Probably nobody has heard a DAC with V-Caps, Dueland Caps, Audio Note Caps, etc., let alone DACs with separate power supplies.  Hearing something at a show and not in your own system is nice but you still have no idea how it will change the sound in your own system.

Any one in NJ come by for a listen, we are always open to entertain.

Happy Listening.

with due respect to other responders - there are clear and salient alternatives to the chord qutest, as good as a dac as it is

at $1500 used, the other terrific alternatives are, based on my travels through dac land... prime examples

- denafrips pontus

- soekris 1541 or newer model 2541

- mdht orchid or istanbul (for less money, about a grand), but doing a tube upgrade, perhaps with a tube adapter closes the cost gap some

qutest is excellent, on the clear and clean, slightly lean side of the spectrum... excellent spatial capabilities, filters are nice but barely perceptible, fixed output

denafrips and soekris provide the spatial excellence but more midrange midbass warmth and fullness many appreciate, xlr outputs, additionally the soekris adds remote volume capability and headphone out, big plusses for some

mhdt tube dacs are yang to the chord’s ying -- warm, flowing, slightly softer focus, more natural less robotic sound, more coherent top to bottom, more analog in presentation overall, a more rose colored glasses view of the world... many systems can benefit from this front end

just my 2 cents

@rpurcz 

I think no DAC is the best DAC. Peachtree offers GAN amps that don't require a DAC. So, why spend $15k on a device to color the sound.

Good question! Especially when some technically superior ones come in under $1k.

Besides, haven't the differences in DACs grown progressively smaller year by year since the 1990s? 

By 2022 even most smartphones seem to come with acceptable DACs.

@holmz 

I own a CD player, and I do some DSP.
And my main experience is that we have been hearing since the 80s that CD would destroy vinyl in term on sound quality.

And that's the point, isn't it, albeit a contentious one.

We are all democratically entitled to have our opinions and the reader is free to decide what to make of them.

Holo Audio

Holo Audio

I recently purchased a Chord Qutest.

cakyol is on the money. (“unbeatable price” lol). 

I currently own (and use) five very different DACS (AK240, AQ Dragonfly Cobalt, Bryston BDA3, Classe’ CDP10, and the Qutest). Don’t ask.

The obvious differences are use oriented features in input, output etc. The Qutest stands out by offering versatility but also ability to shape sound. Filtering options and voltage output. (If there’s such a thing as a “giant killer” here’s maybe a factor).

The Chord is interesting to my ears because it does stand out combining a naturalness with clarity..analytics but relaxed and non fatiguing.I am still playing with the filtering options! 
 

I can’t put my finger on it but it is anything but a typical DAC. And I do like all the other DAC’s I own but the Qutest is rapidly growing on me….

Go for the Chord Qutest at about $1500 - $1800.  At that price, it is unbeatable.

This reminds me of the problem I had when studying the Psychology module at university. The sheer amount of terminology being thrown at us really exasperated me.

I found it frustrating that they were using so many words and phrases that would have no meaning if I tried to use them on the street or with my family and friends.

It bothered me back then in the pre internet age, and I guess it still does now, albeit to a lesser extent.

Anyway, in the end, since folks like Amir have far, far more knowledge and experience than most of us here do, and their findings are open to scrutiny and challenge, then why not at least have a look?

I have and engineering/.science degree, but also took a course in psychology in uni and a biology course.
I don’t call myself a psychologist nor an expert on infectious diseases.

A lot of people do seem comfortable to opine on topics that that they are not necessarily expert in.

I own a CD player, and I do some DSP.
And my main experience is that we have been hearing since the 80s that CD would destroy vinyl in term on sound quality.

But I keep seeing digital systems that cost as much as some is comfortable spending or a lot more.

Maybe I am expert at at least knowing that measurements exist and that different perspectives could be worth considering?

I think no DAC is the best DAC. Peachtree offers GAN amps that don't require a DAC. So, why spend $15k on a device to color the sound.

+1 @ozzy62

lovely room, all that glass and foliage outside... but not so much for sound...

@holmz

I would still like to see some measurements showing impulse response.
The band limiting filters, around 20 kHz, that are used in DACS can give low SINAD for steady state tones, but can cause pre ringing or post ringing.

The multi tine signal graphs may cover that, but I would have to think about it.
And I have an old “pre millennium” CD player, and no state of the art digital.

It's a good argument, but I must admit that I needed the help of a search engine to follow your reasoning - SINAD = Signal to noise and distortion ratio.

As you may have guessed, I also have a similar difficulty with much of what’s being presented on the ASR website.

For example, the $899 Topping DS90se DAC (no 1 on their list) is said to have a metric value of 123dB at 4.2volts.

On the other hand PS Audio $6000 PerfectWave DirectStream DAC has a value of 75dB at 1.4 volts.

Now what does this really mean?

Obviously 123dB is better than 75dB, but for me anyway, it would be really helpful if there was some indicator of where the threshold of human hearing lies.

Another example might be if a turntable that has wow and flutter measurement of 0.1% and another has one of 0.01% and a third has one of 0.001%.

Obviously, less wow and flutter is better but again, where does the threshold of human hearing lie?

Yet another question, as you mentioned, might be, what about other possible relevant measurements?

Which ones are the most relevant?

Anyway, ASR is nevertheless a wonderful resource. Hopefully in time, as our own personal knowledge increases, more of this terminology will become clearer.

This reminds me of the problem I had when studying the Psychology module at university. The sheer amount of terminology being thrown at us really exasperated me.

I found it frustrating that they were using so many words and phrases that would have no meaning if I tried to use them on the street or with my family and friends.

It bothered me back then in the pre internet age, and I guess it still does now, albeit to a lesser extent.

Anyway, in the end, since folks like Amir have far, far more knowledge and experience than most of us here do, and their findings are open to scrutiny and challenge, then why not at least have a look?

You have some serious hard reflection points in that room. I would bet it sounds like an echo chamber. Good luck.

• Thx ozzy and Peter!  By LP I meant listening position.  Here it is, the red lounge chair in the foreground.  You can see the 2 B&O ‘pencil’ speakers on the right and left, connected by a 10ft cable.  I put mats under them for room treatment.  The subs are about 10ft behind the LP, 1 connected with the 25ft cable and the other wireless.

   

Agree with @ozzy62   Your cabling also. The monoprice long cable likely degrades sound. I would start with a Bluesound Node 2 and get your streaming in order, then you can add an outboard DAC later if you want to further improve sound quality. 

Ranking DAC's is a silly idea IMO.

You nailed it. My first pause for concern was the room as you described it. No curtains or carpet makes for a very lively space. If you are addressing that, we can cross that off the list. The second one is the streaming configuration. You’d be much better served with a dedicated streamer connected to your modem and/or hard drive, if sound quality is of import.

And by "LP triangle in the corner" can I assume you mean a record player? If so, this is a very bad place to locate it. Standing bass waves can wreak havoc in corners and don’t play nice with a turntable. If I misunderstood, please disregard.

Lastly, the B&O speakers would be another weak link I'd be looking at.