Is Not Responding To An Offer Just Plain Rude?

My favorite is when I make a reasonable offer (within 10% of asking price), that offer is completely ignored and then a month or two later they sell the item for 30+% less than their original asking price. 

usually Lowballers are profesional resellers ,they are predicting you may need money badly very quickly
But if you are buisness seller selling 200 items or more,and receiving 10-20offers or more a day below market value,probably they won't answer

Grace... not something this society has in abundance currently.

in all times, but especially in these times we live in, it benefits all to have patience, courtesy and grace... this very much applies to buying and selling audio gear... it is a pursuit we do for passion and joy, as a hobby

we are not talking getting a kidney for a transplant here

enjoy, be nice, worry less, have capacity for your fellow hobbyist, breathe... ✌

right now I am in the middle of a "make an offer" deal. Waiting my 48 hrs. I offered full asking price. Being my first experience at this I actually sent another offer $10 higher asking how the process works to get a status. No response on second offer 14 hrs later yet either.
Trying to understand if I'm in some bidding game without knowing it? I would think offering full price would end it? No?
What does it mean if 48hrs goes by with no seller response? Start again? Seems very inefficient!

I have gone through all the mind games when people wait a long time or do not respond. Only to sometimes later learn there was a perfectly normal reason for it. Or maybe not. You never know. Until the goods are in your room and hooked up and running you just never know. This is true by the way for every transaction. Read the guy recently who bought a brand new Prima Luna that when turned on sat there and smoked. Plenty of so-called professional retailers are negotiation horror shows, treat customers abysmally, on and on. People are people. It is what it is. Still way better than I'll trade my cow for a goat and four of your hens.

Seems like a mix of interested buyers and audiophiles looking for advice lately. I've made some nice connections with some folks that share common objectives or brands over the decades. Some continue, some quickly split when you sell the kids. I'm grateful to be able to trade with this group here and on the Mart. 

right now I am in the middle of a "make an offer" deal. Waiting my 48 hrs. I offered full asking price. Being my first experience at this I actually sent another offer $10 higher asking how the process works to get a status. No response on second offer 14 hrs later yet either.
Trying to understand if I'm in some bidding game without knowing it? I would think offering full price would end it? No?
What does it mean if 48hrs goes by with no seller response? Start again? Seems very inefficient!

I always respond to all offers no matter how low. A common courtesy. 

Without a responds from the seller, you are in a binding contract for 48 hours.  I like to see offers with a specified time attached.  This will prevent sellers to use offers coming in as leverage and tying up the buyer from making other offers.  

 It is patently rude to not reply to an offer. There is a lot of subjectivity in prices and offers. The person making the offer may also have entered an incorrect amount.  If the offer is not acceptable to you simply say so. You have lost nothing in a reply.

@arizonabob and @bubba12,

"Seems many of you change your audio systems like I change my socks."

"If I offer 60% after months on Audiogon you should be thrilled."

I'm late to this conversation, but you guys took the words right out of my mouth!  You expect to avoid depreciation on gear when you rotate it like I rotate my tires?  Go purchase a brand new vehicle off a dealership lot, drive it home, then try reselling it or trading it in 6 months later.  See how big a hit you take.  

No offer is an insult. Why anyone gets mad at an offer..... who knows? Just politely decline. I see most of the same stuff on here month after month. If I offer 60% after months on Audiogon you should be thrilled. The market works. People that price stuff to move get things sold.

@arizonabob.  I respectfully disagree with you.  The incentive for a person to buy is their own business.  If they want an item, for whatever reason, that is on them.  However, I stand by my statement that paypal protects the buyer and not the seller.  So, I have no use for it.

If a buyer is a looky loo type that wants to try an item, find out if they really like it or not, they can tell paypal that the item is faulty or some such and paypal will require a refund.

The misconception that many have here is that many of us that sell are not in a business.  we are not a store, dealership, etc.  I don't have time for tire kickers.  I like dealing with people that know what they want and why they want it.  not experimenting.  

I have no problem, having long conversations with potential buyers to discuss who I am, who they are, our interests and the item for sale.  For me (pre-covid) to not have any problem with buyers coming to my home, bringing their favorite music with them, and listening to the equipment, says a lot about me.  I'm not trying to hide anything. The equipment I sell (when I sell) is exactly as I described it.

When someone pays me by check, I make it clear that I won't ship until the check clears.  Yes, in this case, the buyer takes a risk, but, so do I in other examples.  That is where the many phone conversations and background checks come it. 

I sold a classic car on the internet to a buyer in Germany a few years ago.  He never physically saw the car.  The advertisements, phone calls, photos, paperwork, etc. really helped.  he transferred funds into my back account via wire transfer from a US bank.  My bank would not accept wire transfers from overseas.  When the boat arrived and the car was offloaded, he called me and told me that the car was exactly as I stated.  He was thrilled.  

Sometimes, you have to do your research, background checks, phone calls, etc. and take a chance.  Especially if you can't physically pick up a unit.

I've bought many items on Audiogon (pre paypal) with a check that I sent to the seller.  

So, I stand by my point.  Audiogon is in bed with paypal (business reasons) and therefore, is limiting how purchases can be made.  That is because of paypal trying to monopolize the industry.    That does not mean that I have to like it or eat the paypal fee.

What if the buyer lives within driving distance?   That person will come to my home (well.... not now... covid), listen to the unit, pay me and take it home.  Why should we use paypal in that case?

anyway,  enjoy

I have a simple compromise solution that mostly resolves my issues with the Make-an-Offer system.
If an offer comes in that’s not acceptable to you, for whatever reason, just hit the ‘Decline’ button right away so that the person making the offer can move on.
My biggest issue was submitting an offer then hearing nothing for 48 hrs until the offer expires. That’s the ‘rude’ part, mostly.

If the seller receives an offer and is genuinely thinking about it, let the bidder know - “thanks, I’m thinking about it”, that’s common courtesy at play and not too difficult to implement.

That’s it.
Decline the offer promptly or communicate your position to the bidder promptly.

Easy peasy.

I suspect that it's just contagious. 

What's happened to good old fashioned manners? If somebody offered 50% of asking price I would tell them they're being ridiculous and that they need to do some research and try again.

All other offers would receive a polite answer. It takes little effort and very little time to respond.

I notice some posters are not prepared to take the time to answer different offers. Why? Just consider how much time its taken you to assemble your system, to search for your components, to visit different outlets, audition and read reviews etc. and when selling to take photographs, post them , visit the site regularly to read the offers to buy yet resent the time required to respond.

Why is RUDE becoming fashionable?

I just bought an integrated amp using a straight Buy it Now when there was a Make an Offer option.
It actually felt quite good?!!

"Thank the higher powers for starting AudioMart."
+1
Merry Christmas!

YES.

um ... courtesy?

If I advertise something and it is sold, why would I respond to offers that might number in the dozens,  or worse?  I do, but why complain if someone does not. Of course, the ad should be removed before this happens.

@terry9
That one sure had me scratchin’ my head!

Sellers who don't bother to state all the conditions, like 'in person pick up only', shouldn't be in business. IMO.

Same goes for sellers who accept $275 when $300 asked 'in a heartbeat' ((8.3% off) and feel insulted by an offer of $6000 when $6500 asked (7.7% off). IMO

I just yesterday might well have seen the same listing stating price is firm/no lowball.. (playing hardball--who needs it?)  So, for me I need to move on and consider that a seller may well be
entrenched in a dynamic that is only going to annoy both parties due to the rigid mind set of the seller.
I had always considered that part of the fun of this "hobby" is to haggle a bit which means a back and forth discussion on price . Not to mention --Is it not accurate to say that a seller who exhibits some flexibility in pricing is going to generate and have more interest in their product?

Dear seller, you do have a use for paypal. The fact that they protect the buyer gives the buyer another incentive to make the purchase. I feel safe and comfortable using paypal. You are very likely a reputable seller, but unfortunately there are some who are not, especially if they have little or no feedback. If a buyer states cash, check or wired $ only and I send them 8K, all I'm left with is to hope I get what I paid for. Credit cards give you some protection but they can get messy. Not an easy feeling... 

Yeah, internet trading just isn’t what it used to be. Between shipping issues (I just dealt with one of the craziest ones EVER) a general lack of integrity in folks and a variety of other issues, it has made internet trading a PITA. In terms of offers an excepting them, it’s always a crap shoot. It’s rude to offer someone 50% of their asking... that just deserves a F-off reaction. I’ve never said that, but thought it for sure. I think the thing that burns me is when some one does make an offer on an item I’m selling, then it is excepted, and there are crickets. Happens more often than I care to acknowledge, and is technically a legal issue. Either way, it makes buying and selling less fun and sometimes more stressful than it’s worth.

What a bunch of thin skinned.... 

move on.

One thing you should take into consideration is the time of year you are responding to an item. This time of year people are traveling and involved in family gatherings (or they used to be ;-) They may not have access to thier Audiogon information. Yes, you can access it via a phone but the phone I use is a company phone and I won't use it for personal stuff. As a sailor I have changed my vacation plans due to weather and that puts me away from my access to the 'gon. I try not to list things when I am away but sometimes it is not preventable. If the seller wants to sell the item, he, she, will be in touch with you. 

@minorl ,

What happens if only one person puts an offer in and it is for your exact price, but the person is 1000 miles away? Do you really expect the party to pick up the item in person or do you relist and hope someone closer buys it?  Personally, I do not want anyone visiting me until this Covid escapade is all over.

I recently listed an item on Audiogon for $1050 that sells pretty regularly for $1500 or more. One guy offered $500. I rejected it right away, then he offered $600, I felt no obligation to do more than also reject quickly. BTW, the item sold quickly on Audio Mart.

ozzy

Just a quick response to the Paypal fee issue.  in the past, Audiogon had the paypal option, but also allowed payment via check, or other methods.  Actually, it isn't Audiogon's business at all what form of payment I prefer.  They chose to get into bed with Paypal and now Paypal is setting the rules for Audiogon.  That is well and good.  however, Paypal protects the buyer, not the seller, so I have zero use for paypal as a seller.

So, I tell potential buyers that if you chose to use paypal, they you are responsible for the paypal fee.  

Most of the items that I have sold here were sold directly out of my home.  Buyers, indicated on Audiogon that they will purchase the item.  They then came to my home and I had the unit in question connected and operating so that they can not only see it but hear it also.
Most times (actually all the time) each one stayed for over an hour listening and talking about music and equipment.  it was actually fun.
What I sell (when I sell) , it is because I either have too many pieces at home or typically, I am upgrading, purchased something else and want to sell the previous unit.

What I sell is exactly as advertised.  
But, as far as paypal is concerned, I don't appreciate Audiogon's new policy of only allowing paypal transactions, instead of cash or even checks.  I wouldn't ship the item until my bank told me that the check cleared.  Yes, there are ways that forgers can get around that, but that's on me.

Again, paypal protects the buyer, not the seller, so yeah, if the potential buyer only wants to use paypay, (not happening if they come to my home to pick up the unit, it is cash then), then, they pay the paypal fee.  

enjoy

If you're patient and informed, as a buyer you can use the offer system to your advantage.  I've had my eye on a DAC upgrade and had a couple in mind.  I made an offer on one and it was rejected. 

There were a couple of others that I've been watching for a couple of weeks.  There were two of the same item, with identical asking prices (one of them lowered their price after the 2nd one showed up). 

I made an offer to one of the sellers for $500 less than the asking price, sending a nice note with it, and the buyer accepted.  Did I "lowball" him?  Did he have it over-priced?  I say neither, we met at a place that was reasonable for us both. 

Context matters.  If I put something up for sale and they offer 80% of what I'm asking the first day I list it and use text speak, I'm going to ignore them.  If I've had it listed for a while, and someone approaches me in an intelligent way and sends signals that they'll be easy to work with, I'll be much more receptive. 

The system is what it is.  People will "work" the system in different ways.  If you'd rather just straight up pay an asking price and not have to deal with the risk that your offer might get rejected, then by all means do so.

Day and night on this one. Seems many of you change your audio systems like I change my socks. I keep and maintain my equipment a long time. I've been on USAudioMart for several years and bought one thing. I was only looking for one specific item and purchased it. I had no transactions at the time, so what's the big deal? My money was good on USAM, made a reasonable offer and it was accepted. I have more than 2K transactions on eBay and don't even use the make offer option, I was tired of absurd 'low ball' offers. If someone is really interested they will contact me with an offer. If you have a number in mind don't solicit offers! Buyers seem to commonly think sellers always ask more just to see if they can get it. If a seller has zero transactions, that's a horse of a different color. But paypal guarantees my purchase, only accepting cash, M.O. or wired funds? I don't think so. By the way, all you sellers adding 3% to paypal payments is contrary to their regulations, but I digress. I'm now looking for 3 McIntosh pieces and again have no transactions here. I have found what I'm looking for and about to offer a bit under 10%. That's not a lowball! I'm looking to keep these as long as I have my MC2105 and C28 (many many years). I know what I want and am willing to pay for them but I'm also looking for the best condition/best price (you know retired/fixed income, blah, blah, blah). One seller has 2 of the pieces and am going to offer 9.75% under asking. Most guys, not trying to be sexist here ladies, like to do a little 'horse trading'. Hope they're not offered from a certain seller on this blog, me thinks you don't seem to grasp the fact you're not the only game in town, and apparently you don't care either. And that's OK, I can always look elsewhere. AB

Lowball offers are like pornography. Difficult to describe, but you know it when you see it. 10% is a reasonable (not lowball) offer, however.

Me? I’m more likely to accept a lower offer from someone who takes the time to attach a brief note. So much of this is instinct/perception of how much pain the buyer will end up being.

As far as prompt replies are concerned, people have lives and don’t hang out here 24x7. More importantly, keep in mind that Audiogon is the ABSOLUTE WORST forum architecture on the interwebz.

I’ve noticed sometimes, I have a message in my inbox that doesn’t display in the notification bar, and if I didn’t catch it in my email inbox I’d miss it entirely.

At the end of the day (as noted above), this is business, and taking things personally is no good for either your physical or mental well-being.

... Thom @ Galibier Design

Most items for sale have a blue book value.  Basically, a low, average and high sale price range for the item.  I believe that Audiogon had/has a blue book option here as well.  Same for cars, watches, etc.
So, first, in my opinion, people that are selling and buying should do their research first on the price range for the item. I typically do.
So, when I list an item for sale, I typically price it to sell.  I don't have much room for dancing on the price and don't tolerate lowballers.
They come in many forms.  There are many out there that are dealers or flippers.  They want to buy something as low as possible so they can flip it for as much as they can. 

So, I am assuming that the potential buyer did their research first.  If they come at me with a ridiculously low offer, I simply ignore them and could not care less if a person feels that it is rude.  to me their offer was not worthy of even a response.  As I mentioned, there is some room for negotiations, but lets be real here.  You have an item that is blue book priced at (average) at $10,000 and some yahoo offers $2000? , $7000 or $8000.  yeah, that's lowballing and won't get a response from me.  Offer $9,000?  I probably would respond.

enjoy

When you make a low offer and it is ignored, that is a pretty loud response. Re being tied in for 48 hours- total nonsense. Go try again.

@stereo5, if you had read my previous post, you would have read that I posted as much. It’s not that big of a deal.  I’m not that offended.  I don’t need the rules changed. I just think it polite to reply to an inquiring response. If you don’t, don’t.
Happy holidays.

@stereo5 In scenario number one the offer is 33% below asking?  Yes, the initial offer is low, but I am not sure how rude it is.  They offered to buy.  Worst case, you can just straight up decline. 

In the latter scenario, that is an arrogant person making an offer that is 28% below asking and making demands on top of it.  I would click the decline button and maybe tell them it was absurd.  Maybe not bother saying anything.  In the end, we are talking about clicking a button and typing maybe 10 words.  

In both cases those scenarios are well outside of my 10% threshold. I would agree that in both cases, the offers were low-balls.  Believe me, I have received silly offers from folks on certain items.  Sometimes less than 50% of asking.  It takes me a few seconds to hit decline and say "not even close, needs to be X."  

Alternatively, your scenario above had someone offering $6000 on a $6500 item.  That is 7.7% below asking.  In that scenario, I would probably counter offer for $6250 or $6300.  I am not sure how an offer that is within 10% of asking price is "insulting to the seller."

In the end, makes not difference to me. Everyone is entitled to handle their business the way they see fit.  I was merely explaining my POV.  

@verdantaudio,

When I list something for $300.00 and get offers of $200.00 or less, thats lowballing and pretty rude.  If the offer came in at like$275.00, I would take it in a heartbeat.  Some people here are quite shameless in what they offer.   I had a pair of GE Triton 2+ for sale here back in 2017 which was a current model (I paid $3500.00 from my local dealer) and less than 3 months old.  I was asking $2800.00 and would have compromised at $2700.00.  Some buffoon offered me $2000.00 and wanted ME  to pay for shipping and insurance from Rhode Island to California!  At the time, it cost me about $200.00 to ship the speakers elsewhere.  Do you really think this person was warranted a reply from me?

@verdantaudio 

Offers are interesting and I guess it comes down to your philosophy. I respond to all offers as quickly as I decide. I have let one sit for a day because I was pondering it. Automated rejects would be nice but then again, I like discussing things. I will usually state what "range" they need to be in for the offer to be considered. I have never sold an item to someone in this scenario but in the same token, it takes a second to respond.  

What is clear though is what each of us define as a "low-ball offer" is wildly different.  If someone comes in with a reasonable offer that is a bit too low I will almost always counter offer. If you are within 10% of asking, I can't see how that is offensive. Worst case, I would counteroffer at asking price and say the price was firm.  

If you are trying to sell something and someone raises there hand and says "I want to buy it", seems like it is probably smart to try and negotiate with them. Basically, if I don't respond to you within 48 hours, I am likely in the hospital. Can't imagine why you wouldn't respond to someone.  

Agreed ^^

Offers are interesting and I guess it comes down to your philosophy.  I respond to all offers as quickly as I decide.  I have let one sit for a day because I was pondering it.  Automated rejects would be nice but then again, I like discussing things.  I will usually state what "range" they need to be in for the offer to be considered.  I have never sold an item to someone in this scenario but in the same token, it takes a second to respond.  

What is clear though is what each of us define as a "low-ball offer" is wildly different.  If someone comes in with a reasonable offer that is a bit too low I will almost always counter offer.  If you are within 10% of asking, I can't see how that is offensive.  Worst case, I would counteroffer at asking price and say the price was firm.   

If you are trying to sell something and someone raises there hand and says "I want to buy it", seems like it is probably smart to try and negotiate with them.  Basically, if I don't respond to you within 48 hours, I am likely in the hospital.  Can't imagine why you wouldn't respond to someone.  

@stereo5 You seem to take a very "black and white" stance to buying/selling online, where some might consider the exchange of goods for cash between two complete strangers to be more of a process.
My point is, as a buyer, we've little idea what's in the mind of the seller unless he or she specifically tells us - "Price is Firm" - "Make me an Offer" etc. So all we can do is pitch in with what we believe to be a subjectively fair offer, assuming there's a 'Make an Offer' invitation.

I can't see the hardship in saying "NO" to a dozen people. It releases them from the obligation of buying from you, and, more importantly, they don't have to sit around for two days waiting on a message from someone who has no intention of conducting business with them.

"Bottom line, if you don’t like the Audiogon rules, buy elsewhere" - No, I don't like Audiogon rules, nor do I like the rules imposed on me as a buyer and seller at Amazon and eBay. That doesn't mean I should pack-up and leave.

@unsound ,

If you actually read the Audiogon rules regarding making offers, it speciffically states "if you do not hear from the party within 48 hours, consider your offer rejected." Perhaps you need to go over the rules of service again? When I get 12 or more low ball offers, my obligation to the other party is zero, nada, zilch.

If you are offended you do not get a response, go elsewhere to buy, no one is stopping you. You have very few sales here so you probably haven’t run into many lowball offers compared to me with well over 100 sales and all positive feedback. If you want changes made, take it up with Audiogon management. No need for all the whiners to continuiously whine about it here.

12  “no” return e-mails would take about a minute.

You never know who you’re talking to, the safest bet is to use proper manners no matter how goofy the other person on the other hand acts. If you were rude to them it would give them reason to post some thing and your profile. I just as soon be nice, you sleep better at night.

The Audiogon rules are the seller has 48 hours to respond and if they don’t, then you don’t get the item. It is pretty simple. When you put your offer in, you are agreeing to Audiogon terms. You shouldn’t whine afterwards that you didn’t get a response.

Once I posted an amp for sale and I got over a dozen offers and none met my price range. I was not about to write to all those people to say “no”. The poster who offered 6K on an item that was going for $6500. I would never be willing to drop the price $500.00 on something I was selling unless it was a fire sale. That is insulting to the seller and I wouldn’t reply either. Had you offered a couple of hundred less, if I was the seller, I may have gone for it.

What about the person who lowballs the item and then wants free shipping and insurance too? I have come across that many times. I won’t sell to them because I am pretty sure they will be trouble even after the sale. Bottom line, if you don’t like the Audiogon rules, buy elsewhere.

Yes, I think it’s rude. But, not as much as so many other indignities that we suffer through out each day. I don’t sell often. I price by what I believe is fair value. I always get my asking price, with little wait. If I get an offer below asking, I simply reply:” Thank you for your offer, no.”.
Only once did I have problem with a buyer. I was selling an amp, that was not frequently available. Strangely enough, there were two others offered for sale at the same time . All three were listed within $25 of each other. This buyer actually started a thread suggesting we were all rip off artists trying to take advantage of the public, and tried to shame us into lowering our asking prices. Mine sold within two days at full asking price, and the other two sold in less than five days. BTW, my buyer told me it was not the first sample of this amp that he had purchased. He knew full well what he was buying, and was happy to do so. That thread was taken down by the moderators shortly there after.

@dchang05 - "I wish there is an automatic reject option to offers that are lower than seller's desired asking price" - that would go some way to fixing the problem. As I've said, a big part of the issue is being in limbo for 48hrs wondering whether the hole in your equipment rack has been filled, or not.

"In this particular case, the seller stated low offers will be politely ignored." - actually that wasn't the case. The ad had the 'Make an Offer' button and there was nothing in the text that said anything about (low) offers being ignored. 
Cheers
Rooze

I wish there is an automatic reject option to offers that are lower than seller's desired asking price. eBay has such options that if the offer is too low than it will be rejected automatically so seller does not need to respond. 

In this particular case, the seller stated low offers will be politely ignored. So he will not respond to offers he does not accept, some will not even say that up front. is 10% too low? It is up to the seller to decide. The seller would not wait for even a day if he think the offer is acceptable. 

+1 blainer55 I ask questions frequently and follow up by buying, frequently. Ebm’s comment was farcical.