Is my amp good enough?

there is then the issue of speaker break-in, an endless debate...

In some sense the question is "is good enough good enough"...you certainly can get better, but at what price? Did you compare the Arcam to the NAD ?    There is no question your NAD is "good enough"..

Yes, this was what I was alluding to in the second paragraph. As the audition was with the SA20, and I can not forget just how nice the speakers sounded, I am thinking the SA30 with more watts will be just as nice as the 20 if not even better. [Plus its a streamer which is a nice bonus!]

When I get the MA's home and I find its missing some of that glory, I will rush down for the SA30 before the sale is over. Or that is the plan anyway. A lot of it hinges on me getting the speakers in time, but it will be close.

In some sense the question is "is good enough good enough"...you certainly can get better, but at what price? Did you compare the Arcam to the NAD ?    There is no question your NAD is "good enough"...

I was almost about to order the Arcam SA30, and might still do so as it’s on a great sale price until the end of December. However, I just received a reply to an email I had sent to Monitor Audio in the UK. They said I should be good to go with the NAD C275bee .They claim that it puts out sufficient wattage to “comfortably drive the 300’s”

I am hoping the speakers come in with at least a few days to listen to them. And if I have the desire for an amp upgrade I can grab the SA30 before the sale ends. $1000 off is too hard to pass up. Plus my thinking is that it probably has a more musical preamp section than my C165bee.

I am no different than most of us here. It’s an addiction. No doubt further upgrades will happen. But I will spend some time with the new speakers first, letting them break in. Then we will see.

I may add a slightly higher grade of speaker wire to go with them even though something in my brain still wonders if that’s snake oil. I have a set of Audioquest Type 4 on my Silvers now. Maybe bump them up and move the old Type 4 down to my Focal towers in my home theatre setup.

my take is your aq type 4’s are just fine for where you are with your system, with the nice new speakers, just make sure they have solid contact on both ends... enjoy the process, glad you are taking time at each step, understand the impact of each change otherwise confusion will reign

To me watts are watts

I don't know any of the equipment you are running and buying, but regardless, I found this to be an interesting and informative (not to mention civil) discussion.  I will only chime in to add that not all watts are created equal.

Yes thank you kairosman. I’m already doing my on line shopping and reading reviews in preparation. Cheers!

Your NAD pre/power stack is good enough for now to break your speakers in and get to know them in comparison to what you had before. Indeed, your speakers might be such a revelation that you may not feel the need to upgrade your stack. BUT as a source-first then synergy next guy, I spend a higher % than most on source components, cables, power conditioning and isolation tweaks including a high quality stand. All the components in a hifi chain count. Rather than diving in to upgrading your stack, you could try an incremental approach starting with all the gear/tweaks you might have ignored to maximize your existing stack before you spend big money on a new stack. One thing others have mentioned about their amplification priorities and preferences ie preamp vs power amp, my preferred combo is tube preamp and SS amp with more $ spent on the preamp than the amp, particularly paying attention to the quality of the volume control parts/implementation. Just my 2 cents, hope it proves useful!

I would contact John Rutan. His tag here is Audioconnection. If he can't help, he knows someone who can.

Find a Vandersteen dealer

I never thought of asking for some loaner cables, good idea. I’ll ask when the speakers come in. I wouldn’t mind trying something a bit pricier that the AudioQuest Type 5, which right now I would probably go with.

I would hope the dealer you bought the speakers from would be happy to loan you some cables to try...I like your idea of just enjoying the new speakers, breaking them in, getting placement and room acoustics just right...fun stuff !!! relax and enjoy

Like those guys said- never been a fan of NAD but to each their own...

And that was constructive to me, how?

Like those guys said- never been a fan of NAD but to each their own...

You don't need a more expensive amplifier to "drive" your speakers. You can benefit from a better amplifier now. In my decades of being in the audio business I have often been surprised how much difference a better amplifer can be heard on an inexpensive pair of speakers, speaker that sell for $300 at pair. There is no doubt that the attributes toward more believable sound contributed by a superior amplifier are not attributes that a better speaker will offer.

The NAD M22 V2 which I think was their top amp fairly recently was the only amp I bought that I quickly returned. I have had a few cheaper amps than that which I thought were better.

• D-Sonic Class D using Pascal module (pretty good)
• LSA Voyager 350 GAN (not a bass monster but a very good amp for the price)
• PeachTree GAN1, love this amp AFTER I got it modded by tweakaudio.com. Even in stock form I liked it more than the NAD.

I still have the PeachTree since my modded unit is as good as $10k amps I own (given a not too demanding speaker). However, the GAN1 is for people who only stream digital music. No analog sources allowed.

GaN 1 | Peachtree Audio

BTW - speaker cable is the one cable I will spend money on. I like WyWire and Audience. You can get some good deals on WyWire on USAM.

I am no different than most of us here. It’s an addiction. No doubt further upgrades will happen. But I will spend some time with the new speakers first, letting them break in. Then we will see.

I may add a slightly higher grade of speaker wire to go with them even though something in my brain still wonders if that’s snake oil. I have a set of Audioquest Type 4 on my Silvers now. Maybe bump them up and move the old Type 4 down to my Focal towers in my home theatre setup.

Ummm, not to spend additional so soon, but maybe demo some amps at the dealer with the same MA Gold speakers. You don’t have to buy “now” but can gather info of your next amp upgrade. If you find an amp you like maybe later buy used to save some $. 

 Congrats on a your purchase. I am happy for you. Sit back and enjoy the speakers. 

Yes. Amp next. Actually the Arcam used for the audition was pretty nice. It was the integrated A25 I believe.

OP congrats on your decision. Frankly I’d expect a significant sonic uptick after 20yrs and moving up the product line and Monitor Audio’s innovation reputation with very positive reviews.

Now that your speakers are sorted out there’s more sonic upticks to be had, say in the electroniics like the amp…

Congrats !!!! 

So I just came back from the audition. They used the lowest Arcam model available which the salesman said would be comparable to my  amp. 
 

Absolutely amazing! I was totally blown away with how much better they sound vs my 20 year old Silver 10’s. It was immediately apparent. We listened to a good range of music styles to cover all the bases. He moved the speakers to where the amp was setup and I guess as it was not the highest end amp in the place, it was not in an ideal setting for room treatment. And yet still the speakers were outstanding.

I have no fear that they will not sound awe inspiring in my listening room here at home. I plunked down my Visa card without hesitation. The local warehouse was out of stock here in Canada so I am waiting for a shipment from the States. Should be a couple of weeks. I can’t wait.

First of all, if you are truly satisfied, don't waste time and money. I suspect that you really are not satisfied. If correct, the question is why is it that you are not satisfied.

I.M.O., if you are not experiencing listening fatigue, then you are wasting your money. If you are experiencing listening fatigue, you need to figure out what's bothering you.

Some are hyper sensitive to phase and time alignment. Some are concerned with hearing obscure details. If details are a big problem you may want to stick to monitors as they have less bass making details more readily audible. Then again some want details but also want bass. Some want "warm" systems, systems lacking in details. For them details are akin to brightness, even though it's really not bright. I know a guy who has serious high frequency hearing loss. To him a system that would send most out of the room holding their ears is awesome.

Music is personal. You like what you like, but you need to figure out what that is or you can spend many thousands and still be unhappy with your system.

If you want to seriously replicate a life like experience you're in big trouble. You need have a big pile of money. You can minimize the money somewhat if you can solder, or have a friend who can.

I am a detail, be there type. Open baffle is the ideal, but full range planer type speakers physically tend to have limited dynamics. Used Spatial Audio Saphire S speakers are supposed to be quite good, that's hearsay multiplied because I have not personally heard them. Perhaps the biggest problem will be finding neutral electronics, cables, etc.

if time and phase are critical to you Thiel, and Vandersteens are a good starting point. Unfortunately Thiel is only available used, and I have not heard the newest Vandersteens, the older ones are quite warm. I'm not sure that you could even hear cable differences with the older Vandersteens. The new ones are at least much better, but the system was less than ideal so I can't say if you can get details and phase/time alignment with them.

Personally while phase alignment is doable, I consider time alignment somewhat of a canard because it will only be correctly aligned at a specific distance, and your room may not allow for that.

IMO, the smart money is saving up to spend the most you are willing to pay for equipment regardless of your preferences. Otherwise you'll end up incrementally buying amp after amp for instance usually loosing money all the while.

Had I knuckled down and purchased a M.L. 27.5 decades ago, I would have ultimately spent a lot once, but far less over time on amplifiers. Today there are far more neutral, my preference, than just one or two. Even older good amps are expensive, and replacing their electrolytic capacitors is a good idea yet further increases the cost of older gear.

So, I doubt that I have resolved your issues, but hopefully I have told you something that you can find value in.

@neversatisfied 

The NAD 375BEE spits out 410 Watts into a 4 Ohm speaker. The Golds, at 4 Ohm, are rated at 250W RMS. (Think of 250W RMS as the average power your speakers will be given at any time). So together they are a good match with regard to specifications. 

Marrying up separates (varying manufacturers) can be daunting as making mistakes with your money can cause second thoughts and buyers remorse. But buying a set of new speakers that is highly rated is not really one of them. They are, after all, in the range of where you need to be in order to fill out your system with similar costing gear and they are highly rated with excellent feedback from other owners.

With relation to your intentions, your pre-amp, amp, source, and speakers should be in the 1K range with regards to price. If each speaker comes in around 1K each, that is a good fit for your overall plan of monetary attack. If you spend more on any one than the other - make it the source. A great DAC or Turntable will do more for your system sound (it's the starting point!) than any other component. 

It is reasonable that your current setup sounds a bit "thin". (I started my trek with the NAD 375BEE (with an NAD front end) and figure you are probably hearing what I heard many years ago). You likely only use a fraction of the watts of the amp (probably don't go past 10 o'clock on the volume dial in a listening session). So, a better set of speakers will push your amp to do more, which will end up creating "body" with regards to your sound. Think thick over thin. One surefire way to gauge this is to listen to your current speakers for a couple of hours and touch your amp afterwards. It will likely be warm. After installing your new speakers, and listening for the same amount of time, your amp will likely be much warmer to the touch - perhaps even hot - depending on the volume levels you are providing. This is proof that you have succeeded in making your gear work for you, or pushing it to the limits of what is is capable of doing. 

As others have said, another way to push your amp to do more for you would be to install sound dampening/baffles behind your speaker (and elsewhere) which again, allow you to be more aggressive with turning up the sound. Your amp should be working hard for you, but your speakers should be doing the same. Everyone here can agree that sound dampening enforces bass, which is another tool in the fight against a thin sound. Since you are forking out a couple grand, you should be asking the sales person to move the speakers you are buying around the showroom floor to understand how it works best in relation to your own room, as whatever dampening/distance from walls your speakers need in the store will be similar in regards to your own listening room.

I think the point many are trying to make is that you may want to go up the chain in terms of sound quality once you have had the speakers for a bit. Trust me, watts are not just watts, both amps and preamps make a big difference. There was always some degree of graininess in the sound of my earlier system, I have eliminated that through upgrades. 

Absolutely. Something I will no doubt consider down the road.

Yes, well..I have had my caffeine fix for the morning but have also realized I have finally caught my wife's cold. Hence the grumpy mood. I think new speakers are in order to cheer me up. So the cold will not stop me from going to the shop to audition those MA's.

I remain thankful for ALL the replies.

I commented earlier that you might consider some upgrades after you have had the speakers for a while. I had essentially the same amp in integrated form and was driving power hungry KEF’s. Your amp will definitely drive those speakers. NAD gear is conservatively rated regarding power and can handle difficult loads.
 

I think the point many are trying to make is that you may want to go up the chain in terms of sound quality once you have had the speakers for a bit. Trust me, watts are not just watts, both amps and preamps make a big difference. There was always some degree of graininess in the sound of my earlier system, I have eliminated that through upgrades. 

Relax, you have received conformation that your current amp will be capable of driving the new speakers. You already have separates, thus have many options to go with regarding changes in amplification when/if you choose to do so. 

The suggestions that you may want to consider an integrated amplifier at that time are valid. They represent a high value proposition. I would view these responses as positive. 

given the quality of serious modern hifi integrated amps i think one needs to be quite high (as in, very very high( on the hifi food chain for pre/power separates to show their sonic value over good quality integrateds from major, well respected brands ... wayyy higher than this op in his gear choices as stated

This must be a valid point. Having just browsed the two different websites of my usual local high end audio shops, I am finding that the current line up of integrated amps on offer [Moon, Naim, Macintosh, Arcam, Rotel,etc.] all have lower wattage specs then my kit. 

Now I must admit that the actual science of the technology is beyond my lay comprehension. To me watts are watts and I thought that's what drives my speakers, generally speaking. Yes of course one will sound DIFFERENT than the other. I don't want to split hairs at this time.

To my original question, I want to upgrade my speakers. I do not, at this moment in time. want to upgrade my amp and pre. Will my current kit provide me with a decent improvement in sound, one that will justify the price of the speakers. Of course I will most likely upgrade the amp at some point.

I understand this is a rabbit hole of immense proportions and that by simply asking a question it will result in as many different responses as there are stars in the sky. I wish I understood the numbers on the spec sheets better but I do not. It all becomes rather confusing. Hence the quest for a somewhat simple answer to my question. Thankfully most of the responses have been along the lines of what I needed to hear.

My apologies if that comes across a bit angrily but it's frustrating when the majority of the responses are positive only to get the negative ones pop up and then I start to worry about my desire to upgrade my speakers at all without the prospect of having to spend $$$ on a new amp. But I asked, so I should accept it.

And...it's early....I'm just ingesting my first coffee, so there's that.

Build me up, then knock me down! Just when my hopes are high.

given the quality of serious modern hifi integrated amps i think one needs to be quite high (as in, very very high( on the hifi food chain for pre/power separates to show their sonic value over good quality integrateds from major, well respected brands ... wayyy higher than this op in his gear choices as stated

that said, an amplifier (a power amplifier section, be in within an integrated or standing alone) has a tremendous impact on the sound produced in practicality as it is the amplifier that interacts with the speaker load... the power amp is specifically and solely ’doing the work’ of moving the speaker components to actually make the music -- given this, the advice to have one’s speakers carefully chosen before choosing the amp is ultimately wise

of course, during in the speaker audition process, the amp being used to play the speaker is hopefully correct... otherwise one gets caught up in the catch-22 pretty quickly

If you like changing amps and preamps, yes only separates will do...but at  a given price point there are advantages to an Integrated...and over the last few years as they've become more popular, there are some great sounding, high value Inregrateds out there...

I am sure it will be something I will look at down the road. However, as the majority of the replies here have suggested my kit should be sufficient to drive the speakers I am interested in, I will stick with the NAD components for the time being. Providing something does not alter that view when I demo the MA's.

If you like changing amps and preamps, yes only separates will do...but at  a given price point there are advantages to an Integrated...and over the last few years as they've become more popular, there are some great sounding, high value Inregrateds out there...

To me the difference in sound between different speakers is much greater than the sound of different amps..I agree the preamp is often overlooked as the major component it is....might also be time to consider an Integrated Amp...not simply a question of better or worse, but the speaker-amp matching...

So why integrated? I always thought separates were the way to go?

To me the difference in sound between different speakers is much greater than the sound of different amps..I agree the preamp is often overlooked as the major component it is....might also be time to consider an Integrated Amp...not simply a question of better or worse, but the speaker-amp matching...

One or two folks here mentioned the room acoustics and listener / speaker positioning. Do you have that nailed down ? Using your current speakers, get that dialed in, and go from there. IME, this should come 1st, if you already have a decent system. My best, and enjoy ! MrD.

I have had the NAD 375BEE for 8 years. Sweet sounding A/B Amp that comes alive with a tube preamp. Had a PrimaLuna 100 (6 tubes) but after trying a Rogue RP-1, I sold the PL. RP-1 can be had for around a grand. Upgrade the two tunes in the RP-1 and your current speakers will thank you for it. My experience in separates is that the preamp is what changes the sound the most (for the least amount of money) and that speakers are the most expensive upgrade and the least consequential. Surely, others will chime in that their Focals or Revel speakers made the biggest difference but at a major cost above and beyond what you currently have.

Is “sound” not more from the pre amp than the power amp?

I was under the assumption that the amp gives the bang for the buck whereas the pre is more for how the sound shapes up, detail, sound stage, etc.

No, I would say that is not correct.  Amps have a huge impact on all of the sound qualities you listed.  Both are important.  Changing my preamp made a huge impact.  Changing my amps also made a huge impact.

Is “sound” not more from the pre amp than the power amp?

I was under the assumption that the amp gives the bang for the buck whereas the pre is more for how the sound shapes up, detail, sound stage, etc.

@neversatisfied  said: I am not sure if I would get an honest answer from a salesperson as they might convince me I need a $6000 amp to drive the speakers

No you don't need a bigger etc amp to drive your speakers.  The NAD is a good amp.  But there are many much better (to me) sounding amps if you reach a little higher.  They just sound better.  You would get 20 options if you asked for better sound. That may or not be worth it to you.  I did not think so 10 years ago when your NAD, or my old Classe or Parasound Halo amps seemed great.  Now I have Audionet amps, climbing up their line from Amps, to MAX to top of their line.  They all sound special.  Many other great brands do as well.  Get your nice speakers and then down the road think about it.

It was all sounding very positive before the last reply

Looking at the Stereophile review, consider the statement below.

"The Monitor Audio needs to be partnered with an amplifier that is comfortable driving low impedances."

ozzy

Early on the congratulations I haven’t bought them yet.

Congratulations, The MA Gold 300 5Gs have only won like 6 major international awards. In other words, they're pretty awesome. They're also relatively efficient and relatively low impedance, both of which play well into your current amps strengths, which include 400W/Ch@4Ohm dynamic power. You don't need more power. 

The MA Gold 300 5Gs will require some break-in, and while not difficult to place need to be away from the back wall to avoid muddy mid-bass, which can be mitigated to some degree by using one or both of the port bungs. They will also respond to some degree of toe-in to focus the image and soundstage. Note that blocking the upper or lower port can matter a lot, especially to keep vocals from getting 'too thick'. On my MAs, in my room, blocking the lower port worked best.

If you haven't done any acoustical treatment to your room, I would do that long before upgrading your electronics. Your system easily justifies that, and you will be amazed at the results.

Once again, great speakers, congratulations.

How about take your existing speakers to A/B with the new speakers (if dealer allows). Use their same electronics to compare. This should tell you if there is enough difference worth it to you.
 

Yes, I was actually thinking that. I just might. I’ll go once this weekend and see what I can set up as far as having a listen goes. 

@neversatisfied 

I really don’t want to rip mine out as they are nicely installed as far as all the wiring goes.

How about take your existing speakers to A/B with the new speakers (if dealer allows). Use their same electronics to compare. This should tell you if there is enough difference worth it to you.

I think the Monitor Audio Gold 300 speakers will allow you to hear the quality of your current NAD amp.  If at a point in the future you find an itch to upgrade the amplifier I believe the speakers will be capable of performing at the level of your amplifier upgrade also.  I would listen and enjoy with your current amp and then see how you feel about taking any additional steps.