Basic anti vibration? Cones vs pods? Is there "good enough solution"?
New to this part of high end audio. Cones (stability) vs "cushioning" (e.g. pods) Different schools of thought? Do most people use combinations of both? Trying to understand (if possible).
I’ve read recent threads but don’t have the energy to test zillions of combinations. Is there no "this will probably be pretty good?" e.g. I did online research and upgraded to prima luna tube preamp and parasound amp which are good enough for my purposes (at least now). Also 100 lbs floor standing speakers.
e.g. rack with shelves made of granite "bonded to a 3/4 inch thick anti-resonant substrate"
I have experimented with a few isolation solutions.
My first were squash balls. Cut in half and placed under equipment. Next I moved to sorbothane. Had been using shoe inserts to combat ankle and achilles issues for years, so knew of its ability. Built my own rack on an idea from TNT. This was with my old Plinius pre/power amp from 1986.
Plenty of upgrades since, as well as vibrapods under equipment.
Was also a little sceptical tbh of how effective more expensive solutions would be placed under different metal boxes (housing electronic equipment). I didn’t get it, and didn’t research into why.
Last year bought Black Ravioli Pads. They had been recommended. Had made many changes with Dac, power cables, interconnects, speakers, grounding box, and tweaks. System was sounding good.
My notes at the time of putting in the pads:
Put the Black Ravioli Pads on last week.
A set of 4 each for heavily modded Dac and Dac power supply. A set of 4 with Vibropods and cones underneath the Perreaux amp.
It has bought all the changes I’ve made, together. Synergy, I’d call it.
Really enjoying the music. Seems that was what I was missing.
My cynicism has disappeared. BR Pads work. Although pricey, they are well worth it; an investment.
Why settle? I have a soft spot for dual-layer heavy masses on springs iso platform of my own design with super hard nasa grade ceramic cones underneath both the component on the top layer and the lower heavy mass, which can be granite or bluestone. Superb sub Hertz performance and very cool looking. Build the whole thing for $200.
A set of 4 with Vibropods and cones underneath the Perreaux amp.
Well, color me a bit surprised. After months of debating how much an improvement of cones would make under my Belles amp, I looked into the Vibropod cones. For $8 each from Audio Adviser, I said, ‘heck, worth a shot’. Pretty inexpensive to try out, and liked that they have a ‘ball bearing’ imbedded at the contact point within the vinyl based cone, which intrigued me.
Just got them, put them under the Belles. Was changing a side of an album I was playing, and dang, could it be a placebo effect? But I swear everything sounded better almost immediately.
Hard to believe such a ‘small thing’ can make this kind of impact, but I’m sold. And didn’t have to spend a bunch of cash to find out.
Quick and dirty analysis of Vibrapods. Too much internal damping. Undamped steel springs would sound much better as they do not permit energy to be stored in the system. It’s the same principle for inner tubes and rubber bladders and rubber fabric air springs. There are other physics principles involved with these isolators, too, such as the ideal geometry — minimum Contact Area + maximum volume.
I started with pods between the component and the MDF shelf and switched to Cones onto a granite tile with thin foam drawer liner between the tile and the MDF shelf. I now experience very detailed and crisp sound form my system
I found too much damping of the pods tended to muddy the sound.
With either method - be sure to experiment with the position of the cone or pod under the component
E.G. With solid state amps (and my phono stage), I found locating a cone/pod under the transformer (or one either side of it) provided the best sound
However - tube amps are a different beast and normally have a very strong chassis, so placement can by quite different
Good info. As my Belles amp (55lb +/-) is also on a wood shelf (actual laminated wood not mdf). I also thought of a stone base(s) at the contact points of the cones. I don’t have any granite slabs or tiles at the moment, but do have a box of unused ceramic tiles, so tried that. I can’t say the change was as dramatic as installing the cones themselves, but it may bit a bit better, and actually makes some sense. I think; As my cones have, essentially, a small steel ball contact point, I would think it would be better for that contact/weight to be spread over a larger and more dense base and not directly into the wood shelf itself.
The key to controlling vibrations in a shelf is to make a sandwich of materials having very different densities. But for the foam layer - thinner is often better.
Sorbothane is commonly used, but too much can muddy the details. I use the 1/10" thick sorbothane to dampen between the shelf and the supporting struts of my steel rack.
Before moving to the more expensive Bronze/Brass cones I tried hardwood cones and they were surprisingly good, which then tempted me to try the Brass cones.
The bronze/brass cones I had made by a guy in the area that turns bearings and bushings. I had five sets of three made in different size=s for around $200
Yes, they are the Vibrapod *cones* As you linked to, not the origional ‘disc shape’ Viprapod. I’m using the cones alone, which Vibrapod states you can on their web site.
I just used the tile as a I had some on hand. As I’m in the design/build biz, I’m sure I can probably find a scrap piece of granite at some point, or buy a slab, or tiles. Actually, granite tiles are pretty cheap at Home Depot.
Everything is different....you have to experiment to find out what you like. I’m using brass cones....I have used steel, aluminum, some kind of plastic, etc., etc. All different
Burner, The best way to deal with this problem is to suspend your equipment rack from the ceiling with springs tuned to 2 Hz. Dampen the motion with motorcycle shocks. You can dress up the entire affair by making linen sock covers. This is not my idea. It is Edgar Villchur's
You wouldn’t have the problem in the first place if you’d only thought ahead and placed the appropriate size springs under the house during construction. That’s what Shannon Dickson did in Hawaii, you remember him, he was the author of Bad Vibes! - the seminal article on vibration isolation for audio components that appeared in Stereophile magazine in 1996. Think ahead. Maybe you can backfit the springs. Lots of laughs. 🤗
No matter how much you have in the end 🔚 you would have had even more if you had started out with more 🔜
geoffkait, it is more stable to hang your house from springs than to sit it on springs. If the houses center of gravity is not right in the center of the situation it will bobble to one side or another making everyone inside seasick. David Fletcher modified Edgar Villchur's design this way when he created the SOTA Sapphire back in the late 70's. You can't get seasick is a SOTA. You would construct three or four adjustable height towers and hang a reinforced concrete slab from the tops with steal cables that wrap over pulleys at the top then head down to dampened springs of some sort at the base of the towers. If we can find an environmental benefit we might be able to get Google of Bill Gates to build us one.
A good enough solution for me was Herbies sliders under my Proac d15's. No adverse effect and you can easily move your speakers around. I've had vibrapods but they seem to work better on amps, etc vs. speakers. Always wanted to try more advanced footers but cost was an issue. I'm now looking to change to Proac D2's and stands - not sure what isolation will be necessary for stands.
Is that what skyhooks are for? 😳 Does Herve Villschaise approve of them? Everybody and his brother has been using tension springs and bungee cords like forever. LIGO the project to detect gravity waves uses compression springs but whatever floats your boat as it were. I’m not sure I’d go back to the 70s for my technology. 😬
As for stability it helps a lot if you know what you’re doing. Low profile springs of the correct spring rate are extremely stable under most loads. And much easier to implement. Hanging stuff with springs is very tricky and inconvenient.
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