I need an almost 10 feet interconnect between pre amp and power amp. Both with tubes.
I know all cables affects the signal and naturally I I want this effect to be as small as possible.
I've just bought Klipsch Heresy IV and I don't want the cable to emphase the midrange bump in these speakers even more.
Sorry the speaker toe in/out did not work well for you. I believe it was someone else who made this suggestion.
" I read on another forum a post from a guy having the same problem. He got the advice to experiment with toe out."
I thought was a reasonable solution to try in that it was a) cheap (free), b) not difficult to impliment, c) low risk of breaking something, and d) you can easily revert to prior state if not happy with the result.
I'm still sticking with my original suggestion to dampen the horn bodies.
I would also suggest that if you can borrow or rent cables, try something above your comfort level as a reference. You may find they are not worth the extra investment -- and return them. Or, you may discover they're the best thing to ever happen to your system, fork over the cash/credit card, or put them on your list of future upgrades.
Just remember that Heresys will definitely will let you how they feel about any changes you make -- good or bad.
@waytoomuchstuff
Toeing in the speakers did not work for me. It only messed up the imaging.
@swann
Very interesting. Unfortunately not available here in Sweden. And I'm a little "afraid" of silver cables. I like the warmer sound from copper cables.
I have found a brand none have mentioned; Neotech. They have a copper cable called Nemoi-3220 that seems interesting. I will test that cable coming weekend.
I agree about the importance of dielectric. Of course air is best, but teflon and cross-linked polyester are a good second. The issue with teflon is soldering - if you make up your own, do so outside and at eye level - burning teflon releases HF, one of the nastiest gasses in the universe.
About six years ago I discovered a little known interconnect called "Stager Silver solids", made using pure solid core silver wire in Teflon sleeves.
The performance of these cables is astonishingly good. Totally accurate and transparent, every detail and nuance of music passes through it without hindrance.
I've recommended it to several others who appreciate high-end quality sound reproduction and they have been similarly impressed.
At the Silversolids.com website you'll find dozens of user evaluations and rave reviews - many reviewers bought and kept them. And the best part is: they're very reasonably priced and offer a 30 day satisfaction guarantee.
Cardas Cygnus. A lot of trickle-down technology. If you can stretch your budget, it should be the endgame! I have Mogami's incredible value/performance but not in the league of $1K cables.
OP, yes I have tried Wire World Eclipse… I think it was 7. To me they seemed worth the money.. but, as always they must be tried in your system. In comparisons, for me in my systems I preferred DHLabs. But that is not saying anything against WireWorld.
Dynamat makes some good material that you can purchase in sheets. Just slice out what you need with a carton knife, remove the backing and stick them on. Literally takes 10 minutes per driver.
The Klipsch drivers are held in with machine screws. So, they can be removed and retightened with zero risk of damaging the cabinet or the fasteners. The midrange horn is pretty bulky, so I’d have a friend near by to support them. IF you feel the need to remove the assembly from the cabinet, there will likely be push in connectors for the speaker wires. No tools (or, special skill) required.
Your amp setup may be the perfect companion to your Heresys. Well played.
Best of luck to you. Looks like you’ve made some good choices. Enjoy.
Thanks for a really interesting and informative post.
Have you any recommendations for damping material?
Feels a little scary to remove the horns from the box.
I will try another thing first. I read on another forum a post from a guy having the same problem. He got the advice to experiment with toe out. I have tried many placements, but not that.
Actually, I like the British polite sound more, but I can´t find any speakers sensitive enough for my 12w SET.
@simnaLots of good posts here that should point you in the right direction.
I’d like to comment briefly on your statement:
"I’ve just bought Klipsch Heresy IV and I don’t want the cable to emphase the midrange bump in these speakers even more."
The Heresys will measure ruler flat in an anechoic chamber. No midrange bump "engineered" in. The response is measured using an industry standard 1 watt @ 1 meter reference. Place these in a listening space with real amplification and results may vary. The midrange "push" or emphasis can be caused by many factors, including the room. The Heresys are quite revealing and unforgiving of "warts" present elsewhere in the signal path. So, yes, interconnects matter.
The Heresys like all speakers are imperfect and have errors of both commission and ommission. They make sounds they shouldn’t and filter out information that would be nice to hear. To be specific related to acts of commission, Klipsch horn bodies have a tendency to set up symphathetic resonances with other vibrating objects in the speakers. So they, themselves, become "involuntary" transducers making sounds that are not part of the original signal. The midrange horn body shares a cabinet space with the woofer thus mimicing the lower midrange signals. The body is also directly coupled to the midrange driver and "sings along" thru a portion of the midrange & upper midrange as well. Same is true for the tweeter although woofer vibrations are below the resonant frequencies of the horn body. This added energy generates in-phase out-of-phase signals in concert with the drivers, thus emphasizing or sucking out certain frequencies. The louder the signal the more pronouced this phenominon. These "rogue" signals get bounced around the room like "ordinary" signals making matters worse, so room acoustics come further into play. Focus, detail and spacial information also suffer.
I’d highly recommend that you apply some quality dampening material to the back side of the horn bodies. For an investment of less than $20, it will offer the best bang for the buck you can do to calm down the midrange and smooth out the highs. The Heresys willl probably never sound like polite British monitors, but you can have high efficiency AND linear response -- with a little work.
Oh shoot. I didn't notice the 10m. Sorry! In that case, I would strongly recommend Straight Wire IC's. Best bang for the buck and I had their Crescendo's for 20 years before my switch. If you can swing them, get used OG Crescendo's not the new Crescendo 3's. Minimal differences except slightly thicker insulation. If Crescendo's are out of reach, look into the Virtuoso's. Good luck!
Look like you will be having fun this week-end with your cable shoot out. I think you need to audition mogami too, you will be pleasantly surprised, have fun.
This is an incredible, fantastic value cable. Just terminate it with your choice of RCA plugs, using one silver wire for +, one silver wire for -, cutting the drain wire flush at both sides, and connecting the shield only at source end.
It's the best cable I've heard and just unbeatable at the price IMHO.
@1971gto455ho That was a very odd comment. Is my English that bad?
@digsmithd I would love to test these cables made by Chris Van Haus. But it's too much hassle when living in Sweden.
@kota1 I will actually have a pair of Supras for evaluation this weekend too.
@ghdprentice I will try out Wireworld Eclipse 8 this weekend. Do you have any experience of them?
@muvluv This cabel will not be near any other cables (behind my cd-shelves), so I think it will be fine.
@retiredfarmer I need 3 meters (about 10 feet) and a budget at $1000. I will have Wireworld Eclipse 8 for test this weekend. But I don't know how much that will say if ghdprentice is right when he says "it takes a couple hundred hours for them to break in".
@duynguyen7307 Yes, I´v heard about the SKW cables. Problem is the thickness. I don't think there is space enough between my CD-shelves and the wall for them.
Exactly, the cabel is to be used between an tube pre amp and a tube power amp.
I don´t think there will be a problem with 3 meter RCA-RCA interconnect. I haven't seen anyone saying so. And why would manufaturers offer this length?
@audphile1 I don't think there will be a problem with a 3 meter (10 feet) RCA-RCA interconnect. If the length was the double maybe I would run in to trouble.
Many votes for checking out Supra. Will be interesting.
My bad. I stand corrected - RCA it is.
However, RCA in 3m length should not be an issue at all. I’ve used a 4m BlueJeans RCAs and still do use them as a backup without any issues.
My recommendation with Audience stands.
Forgot to recommend the ICs if you do want to pursue a longer run. Look into Audience Ohno. No emphasis in mids or any frequency range and without a doubt better than the Mogami.
@simna you will sacrifice on cable quality with a long run of XLRs. You won’t be happy. The long cables you will get for $1000 are overpriced cheap pair of 1m interconnects.
I have experimented with a long 15ft run of Mogami Studio Gold. Spent several weeks listening and eventually moved everything back to be able to use my 1m Acoustic Zen Absolute Copper XLRs.
In my experience the gains you plan to achieve by moving your components and freeing up space between the speakers for a potentially better soundstage are nullified by using lesser quality interconnects. Mogami just didn’t cut it. I got much better results overall by using the 1m better cables.
If at all possible, keep your cable runs as short as possible to be able to use the best quality cables possible.
I have used professional recording cables in my systems forever. Mogami is very good, but its shield is not quite as good as Canare Starquad - this will only make a performance difference in an environment rich in radio waves. But Canare is far harder to make up. I use Canare with ETI connectors when they will fit, Switchcraft when they will not.
Microphone cable costs a dollar a foot or so. Put the money you saved into an upgrade that will make a serious difference in sound quality. Cables are the least bang for buck IMO. YMMV
On those interconnects, I would look for used. There are many companies in the EU that make what you want. I just bought a 3 meter set of XLR’s for $500 that sold new for $1300 new. No box, but it lovely shape. I’m sure you could do better!
Since you are in Sweden, definitely look at Supra cables as Kota suggested; made in Sweden. I’m in the US, and I have their RCA analog, digital co-ax, and USB cables…..very well made and reviewed
OP you are in the backyard of a very good cable manufacturer in Supra. I have their CAT * ethernet cables and Excalibur USB cables, and they are excellent.
Thinking about their IC also.
Sounds like you’ve got all the answers and are just opening a debate again on the pros and cons of cables. Respectfully, a waste of time.
I personally like the used transparent or wire world idea. Also I don't think there is anything wrong with the dhlabs recommendation either I would add furutech to that list. The most expensive furutech is decent nothing wrong with it. It is not up to the level of the better transparent cables I have at ultra reference and reference xl. But they don't wreck anything. It's been along time since I had wire world but it was nice cable.
10 feet is a short run for rca you shouldn’t run into any problems unless you have a lot of loose electricity flying around in the air. Xlr is great for long runs since it’s redundant and also shielded at the same time the cable carries 2 signals a forward and reverse signal so if one signal is compromised the sound still comes through. Have a nice journey with your audio experience
Given what you have said I would consider DHLabs, Transparent, or WireWorld. The later two go for used. UsedCables web site. I would try to make sure they are doing whst you want. If new… remember it takes a couple hundred hours for them to break in.
My system are shown under my ID so you can see where I am coming from.
Fwiw...i dont know if stereo5 is talkin about "v twist"...have 2 pairs eti/2 pairs aeco.There are other cu models as well... "pulsar" is a killer little wire as well.
Hmm... I´m in Sweden...
Just the cable and the connectors with shipping, tax, and fees will almost be as if I bought say, Wireworld Eclipse 8, 3 meters/10 feet (which I will try out this weekend) here in Sweden.
I think you have to compare yourself on your equipment, just add Mogami to your audition list. They can be ordered from Amazon with a 30 day return. I like Audioquest but in my system for my needs and budget the Mogami were preferrable.
I needed an interconnect to go between my preamp and amp so I called Chris Van Haus and he made me a wonderful sounding cable which he calls a CU Twist with very high end connectors. Price was around $300. It was 2 meters long. Most of the price was the connectors and labor, the wire itself was very reasonable. You can call VH Audio and talk to Chris. He is a wealth of knowledge on what works well with various equipment.
It would be interesting to know which cables you compared Mogami Gold with and what made Mogami better.
Did a quick search on the net and found this about Mogami Gold:
"Mogami is the recording industry standard, and I have a home studio wired up with Mogami Gold.
That said, I did try the XLRs out in my home system between DAC, preamp, and amp, and they were handily crushed by Audioquest Colorado. The Colorados are not the most impressive XLRs I have owned. Mogami are reasonably priced industry workhorses, but are not very impressive compared to most audiophile cables over $100."
I have done comparison and these just get out of the way of the music. I have compared with very inexpensive cables like blue jeans up to $1000 cables from Virtual Dynamics. These cables don’t "sound" like anything, they just let the music pass through without adding or taking away anything. Check out the reviews from people who bought them here, You can order in the length you need NP. FWIW Mogami is the cable most often used for pro applications in recording studios:
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