First of all, I don’t own any high-end power cords, mostly because I can’t fit them behind my rack. Second, I am not trying to stir up controversy, as you will see from my question. I understand that the people who believe power cords make no difference argue that once the power gets into the component, the AC is converted to DC and the power supply of the component takes over completely. I think I have that right for the most part. So it that’s true, and it probably is from a traditional EE standpoint, why is it that I have not heard anyone say that power conditioners make no difference? I am not aware of anyone with a decent system ever saying that a Niagara or Triton or Audience teflon conditioner didn’t affect their sound, for good or for bad. So if the EE theory is true, wouldn’t power conditioners make no difference either? I have an Audience AR6T for almost 10 years and I think it made a big difference. BTW - I am not talking about Power Plants, which deal with voltage stabilization, which is a different topic. Obviously, if your AC voltage is way off, it's going to cause problems.
Well let’s pretend that people actually DO hear a REAL difference. Then what is the causal mechanism that is happening?
One would think that they could put a scope (or A2D) on the power coming out the end of that cord… and then actually see some things that are other than 60 Hz (or 50Hz) being removed.
If I was able to see some high frequency noise on the bad cords, that was removed on the good cords, then it would be easier to imagine that that is a reason to believe in using a fancy power cable being worth having.
But when I have to really on my ears alone, then it might be more cost effective for me to just go to a hypnotist… and then I could end up at the same level of happiness for a lot less $. (I still would not have nice looking cables, but then I would also not care.)
If the manufactures are doing something good, then what is it?There most be some science driving their effort. Without some proof of it, then I am left to conclude that it must be voodoo or magic.
Obviously I fall into the data group. That is not bad, it is just how it is.
I started with trying out a couple of low priced power cables from a Chinese manufacturer a few years back. I heard a difference. I slowly have replaced every PC I could. All of these were purchased used. I hear a difference with my ears. I would love to run higher end cables and conditioners, but the reality is, I’m only willing to chase the “dragon” so far. I have other hobbies,and retirement is right around the corner. I am a firm believer in all these things matter,and make a difference.
The cable manufacturers have found the way to 'manipulate' with the 'sound' of their power cables and (Cardas and Nordost for examp.) their power cables have 'house sound' as the rest of their products. (ic or speaker c.)
Perhaps somebody with enough tecnical knowledge could try to explain that.
For the rest, finding the best pc cord for some component is a process of trying many 'flavours' and even more when you need to wire the system, then it is like fine cousine, carefuly matching the 'ingridients' so that nothing 'stands out'
"How do they work is my question? If a shielding worked then what about the distance from Hoover dam to the outlet? But then the last 5’ I need to run a $1000 cable?...."
I have found power cables make a difference more with some components than others. In the grand scheme of things, and with a fixed budget, I have found that money is best prioritized towards other aspects of your hifi system than power cords assuming you're at least starting with a basicly competent cable.
The latter. That’s my guess. Based on what I see on ALL audio forums, across the internet. The same usual people who post everywhere everyday. Sometimes they don’t even own any audio system
Do you think the cable skeptics represent half of the audiophile community? Or, perhaps, are they just a noisy minority?
How do they work is my question? If a shielding worked then what about the distance from Hoover dam to the outlet? But then the last 5’ I need to run a $1000 cable?
And with internet over power lines, it is not like the noise needs to be shielded from getting in… It can already be in there.
It cannot be much lower resistance
Do the high $ ones have more indictable or capacitance?Or do they use something that has an immeasurable quality?
My power cords improve the sound but yours do not. I haven't heard yours but they can't, Just because you say they improve the sound I don't need to hear them to know they don't work???
I am not an Electrical Engineer, but I know enough to respect electricity. That being said, as my components within my systems were upgraded/improved, the differences and appreciation of power cords/conditioners etc. also greatly improved.
However, if your audio rig is low fi it would be similar to putting high performance tires on a Yugo. (Are they still made?) It won’t matter.
Sorry guys, all you need to do is experience what a quality power cord can provide in a quality system. Please leave out the $50 Amazon waste of money power cord versions and the long drawn tired comments about power cords don’t matter.
Those comments are better stated on other websites.
Can anyone care to explain why that would be? Imagine the tiny little fuse between power cable and your equipment. Wouldn't it be a bottleneck? Then why would a power cable make any difference that whatever current has to pass through the tiny little fuse?
+1 for cheap power cords from Amazon. For $50 per power cord, even if it won’t satisfy you, you only lose $50 which is miniscule when it comes to HiFi. They are made in China but most of them are very decent in quality.
I got some myself and they definitely improve the sound.
Totally 🥜 Nuts , I owned a Audio store until 09 and without question a quality power cords improves the audio in several areas ,we have done blind comparisons with bunches of different power cords. .I have dedicated 20 amp lines awg10 with 4 wire 2-Dual grounds ,one common ground, the other a insulated isolated ground which makes a very noticeable improvement ,copper gold AC outlets , vs the garbage $3 brass zinc outlets in most house and the oxide they produce as well as any cheap power cord ,try taking Isopropyl alcohol on a paper towel ,see how much oxide comes off ,which is detail robbing for sure . a very respectable power cord still improves several areas ,even different brand power cords have their own Sonic characteristics. if this were not the case ,then why don’t everyone just stick with the crappy stock power cord it comes with ? That’s my point !!
When I got back into this hobby I addressed the power cord and cable issue myself with a trial of Shunyata Venom to stock power cables. The Venom series is Shunyata’s entry level, but contains their core technology. The difference was not subtle. The clarify and black background were very apparent. I don’t think it was placebo. Now, having said that does one need to spend a fortune optimizing their power cables and conditioners. No. There are in my opinion diminishing returns that depend on your gears, room and your hearing. So do you need to go up to Shunyata’s Sigma or Omega levels. For me, no. For someone else, their hearing, their gear and their room, possibly. However for most folks I think benefits will become unnoticeable in the mid range somewhere and that will require an in home trial. Additionally, having tried a bunch of cables from different companies, I think that one can follow some basic guidelines and get good performing power cables for less money. Try and get good oxygen free conductors. Get the largest gauge you can. Good connectors and shielding around the conductors. I recently tried the top line power cable from Pangea and I think it faired no worse than the AQ Tornados and Shunyata Deltas I normally use. The Pangeas are a fraction of the cost. So I think one can get improvements over stock cables without breaking the bank. But I do think in my experience that good power cables perform better than stock.
I have heard current is the most important aspect. So if that is the case, why do manufacturers only list watts. I honk they are trying to hide something.
Give me placebos, or give me death! I have repeatedly called on our valuable electrician freaks to publish the tests proving lamp cord equal to Synergistic Galileo. Why are they hiding these definitive tests that would save all of us so much money? Maybe there’s a placebo effect that makes cheap stuff sound great? Sign me up!
There certainly are a great many firm opinions expressed ton the topic of power cords/conditioners. I suggest that experience beats opinion every time. For power cord doubters, there are 5 foot, 10 gauge, shielded power cords available on Amazon for $50 ish each. $50 is cheap for fancy power cords. So I tried some. They improved the transparency or clarity or "revealed micro details" on both an Elekit 8600R (300B tubes, 9 wpc) system and a system using PuriFi's glorious 200 wpc output modules (used in NAD's new power amp and integrated). Three more cords will arrive today, says Amazon. Don't you think it's worth a try? I think it's the sheilding removing ultra sonic garbage from the power lines. Whatever it is, it works in my systems. I don't need to know exactly WHY if it improves the system. $50, how can you lose?
Chayro’s , miller carbon’s and willy t’s comments are on point. Expensive power conditioners and boutique power cords will make no difference in the characteristics of the DC current delivered to the amplification devices (tubes or transistors) which is produced by the amplifiers power supply, which incorporates, usually, “filter,” capacitors. I suspect that some of the anecdotes in posts, above, claiming improvement in SQ from such tweaks are really just descriptions of placebo effects.
millerecarbon forgot to mention the regulator, which have improved over the years (to higher speeds, like Hynes, etc)
But it’s still not an ideal situation when the rectifier is ’forcing’ the inversion DC/AC. The line is already alternating w/ caps (only) getting charged at the peak & low of the wave. Never when rising/dropping, where it spends most of its time.
Then the the noise caused by this charging process. Then the power cord trapping noise in a component (blocking path to house-ground). The problems of AC-audio are hard to enumerate...
Thanks for your response. I guess I missed the humor, sometimes I do. My handle is mispelled as I struggle with dyslexia. It is hard to type straight when I am tired. It talkes concentration, and where I can, on work or important things I always use spell check.
As we all know high end audio or the obsession for audio perfection, is an ocd hobby. I think we can all agree on that. I am included in the above label. The topic of power cords is pretty simple. If your ocd obsession is not strong enough to strive for better sound that it compels you to buy a $500 SR cable then dont buy one. I can safely say that a couple of these cords at least for amp and preamp definitely improved transparency in my system. I have been very satisfied with the results and would have never believed it unless I put two in place. I really don’t care how it works but it works so again if your obsession for audio perfection does not motivate you to purchase a $500 power cord then don’t. The guess work has been done and the manufacturers would stop making and selling them if audiophiles got no benefits from them in their systems. I don’t see the demand going away anytime soon. Have a safe holiday weekend Willy-T
I'm thinking a solar trailer, to tell the truth. If you have the room. I do. It cuts the maintenance, I can unplug, fold up and be GONE.. Have Power will Travel. They actually are less expensive. Depends how fancy of a trailer you want to. Full blown air ride, tandem axles and adjustable hydraulic surge breaks. Still 30 to 50% less than on the roof..
Hello, I saw a YouTube video of a bird on a transformer. The bird did not touch the connections or at least it looked like it didn’t. Poof! Gone! There was nothing left but smoke. The best thing I have found to show people power cables make a difference is putting them on a BlueSound Node 2i with a C19 to C7 adapter. All the way from stock to Nordost TYR and several in between. Power Cords can make a difference. I use a Nordost Blue Heaven. It sounds great.
I'm totally convinced that the best way to deal with all of this AC noise/distortion issue is to totally eliminate the WALL AC.....Period! The market is now aflush with extreme, high quality, lithium battery powered portable power generators.....$1000 get you near top of the line. One or two of these, a few solar panels outside and you are done. Or, charge it with an AC charger when you are not listening and disconnect it when listening. If you are into the whole alternate energy thing, A few DIY Lithium cells a BMS and a well regulated, quality 12-48VDC to 120VAC inverter and you are in High Cotton! Or how about a TESLA Power Wall.....Disconnect the whole freak'n house from the grid.....but be aware all the internal noise generating devices are still connected...Dimmers, Wall Warts, Compact Fluorescents..
This is the direction I'm headed....DIY cells, BMS, Inverter!
As always ... the only way to find out if adding / changing a component (unfortunately almost always an expensive one) makes the sound 'better' is a blind A/B listening test. But that's often difficult or impossible to set up because of the required instant switching.
Maybe you should explain how voltage is analogous to physical water pressure.
Gravity and pumps create water pressure and it is held back by a valve. On the other hand electricity does not need to be held back as there is no "pressure".
I can think of a lot of ways pedroeb, but this is the one I want to try. Since you think voltage is not pressure, I will put both hands across a 12v car battery if you will hold your hands half an inch above a 12kV panel. Since voltage isn't pressure and you have to complete a circuit you should be okay with doing this. When I am fine and you are fried we will see who still thinks voltage isn't pressure. Deal?
I use harmonic technology pro 10 OCC single Crystal power chords and I can tell you they made a big difference so anybody that says power cords don't need their hearing checked.
Yes, demand has to be created. Presence of the voltage in closed circuit creates current, hence magnetic field around the wire. Load creates electric filed between the wires. Electric and magnetic fields are always perpendicular. They are like XY plane with vector Z (Poynting vector) showing direction of energy flow. With AC both electric and magnetic fields change direction simultaneously, but Poynting vector (direction) stays the same. Current itself is just a flow of electric charge. Same amount of electric charge that leaves the source - comes back. Energy is delivered on the outside of the wire.
Maybe you should explain how voltage is analogous to physical water pressure.
Gravity and pumps create water pressure and it is held back by a valve. On the other hand electricity does not need to be held back as there is no "pressure". It does does not attempt or want to flow (i.e. no pressure) until a request is made by completing a circuit. A switch can camplete a circuit, but only if there is something connected to it. Unlike a valve, turning on a switch when there is nothing connected to it does not result in electricity flowing.
Their flow rates can be measured but in unconnected ways.
Both make a big difference in any system on any quality of decent gear for many reasons, but the big one is natural tonality, free cords make the gear work but aftermarket cords make the gear shine.
Caelin Gabriel takes the view that the component sits between two power conductors: the hot and the neutral. AC power oscillates (alternates) back and forth at a 50-60hz rate. So power does not pour into the component at all. The component’s power supply is within a complex network of wires and connectors. Due to their obvious proximity, all of the wire and connectors can and do affect the performance of the component’s power supply.
From his view the power cord is not the last 6 feet, it is the first 6 feet from the perspective of the component. The further a noise source is from a component, the less of an impact it will have on the components power supply. The high-frequency noise sources that have the greatest impact on audio and video performance are the system components themselves
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