First of all, I don’t own any high-end power cords, mostly because I can’t fit them behind my rack. Second, I am not trying to stir up controversy, as you will see from my question. I understand that the people who believe power cords make no difference argue that once the power gets into the component, the AC is converted to DC and the power supply of the component takes over completely. I think I have that right for the most part. So it that’s true, and it probably is from a traditional EE standpoint, why is it that I have not heard anyone say that power conditioners make no difference? I am not aware of anyone with a decent system ever saying that a Niagara or Triton or Audience teflon conditioner didn’t affect their sound, for good or for bad. So if the EE theory is true, wouldn’t power conditioners make no difference either? I have an Audience AR6T for almost 10 years and I think it made a big difference. BTW - I am not talking about Power Plants, which deal with voltage stabilization, which is a different topic. Obviously, if your AC voltage is way off, it's going to cause problems.
@holmz I went with Synergistic Research Foundation power cables. The friend that convinced me to try new cables uses Shunyata Research power cables. I can’t remember which version he uses.
I live in an area without any audio shops. I have drive a couple of hours to get to one. So I try cables from the Cable Company. There is a fee, but it applies to any purchases from their shop.
For what it’s worth, I was firmly in the “how can cables make a difference” camp before I started trying different versions 6 months ago. A friend of mine who has an amazing system talked me into giving it a try. He told me to look at all the cables as a single component in the system.
Now the changes are not earth shattering, but it really has improved what is coming out of my speakers. My wife and my son both asked if I did something different with my system after making the changes. Are these changes measurable on a spectrum analyzer or an oscilloscope? I have no idea. Is it confirmation bias on my part? I thought that was a possibility until I had two people who knew nothing about these changes asked if something was different with the system.
If you have the flexibility to try different cables with your system I would do it. What do you have to loose?
Which one(s) did you put in? I have an appointment at a shop on Tuesday.
For what it’s worth, I was firmly in the “how can cables make a difference” camp before I started trying different versions 6 months ago. A friend of mine who has an amazing system talked me into giving it a try. He told me to look at all the cables as a single component in the system.
Now the changes are not earth shattering, but it really has improved what is coming out of my speakers. My wife and my son both asked if I did something different with my system after making the changes. Are these changes measurable on a spectrum analyzer or an oscilloscope? I have no idea. Is it confirmation bias on my part? I thought that was a possibility until I had two people who knew nothing about these changes asked if something was different with the system.
If you have the flexibility to try different cables with your system I would do it. What do you have to loose?
I don’t know my man. Sherlock Holmes. I just use plain old fashion ears. Put it on. Listen. Repeat.
While you are at it, buy a $25,000 audio Precission equipment. Or a Null Tester from Ethan. Whatever turns you on. Or read stuff people with AP post in the Internet. Whatever makes you happy
Thanks @thyname I am in fact awaiting an order to arrive, which was placed 6-8 weeks ago. I’ll probably get some Furutech ends for the wall and the inlet, and some RF chokes to put on the cord.
I probably need to borrow an o-scope. If you fellows are hearing things, then if it is real I would be able to see something removed. However I could be in an area with less noise on the power. Or maybe my amp and preamp are more immune to it? Or maybe I am just lucky with how the system is grounded and wired? There has to be some reason why certain people find these things work, and others don’t. That seems pretty interesting. Maybe the incandescent lights and not using LED dimmers is helping me?
What do you think? Could it be environmental differences?
@holmz dude: breaking news to you: plenty of online shopping sites. Including the Cable Co. to try some cables. Do you have Internet? Obviously since you are WINNING the forums here. Credit card then?
You can add me to the camp that hears a difference with better power cables. I added a set of SR Foundation power cables to my amps and preamp. I’ve been listening to them all week and the sound from my system has absolutely improved. I actually notice more reverb from the instruments in the music I’ve been listening to this week. Drums sound more real than they did with my OEM cables. The higher frequency notes have much more clarity. All my cables now have silver conductors instead of the standard OEM copper. To my ears, this has absolutely been worth the upgrade.
It was not intended as an outburst. It is a question.
The point is where is all the 50 Hz, or 60 Hz switching? And if there is high frequency ripple, then that should be riding on top of the 50/60 Hz, so it would be like periodic switching distortion that happens in time-gates that are spaced at 50/60 Hz.
Or you can do what those of us in touch with reality do, and try it and hear for yourself. Then you will know what you are talking about and not be reduced to schoolyard taunts.
I am not sure where you get the school yard taunts from?
There are literally no shops within 1000 miles. So asking for some reasoning as to the theory, or some examples of what it is removing should not be viewed as an attack or a school yard taunt. I am not likely to spurge on cords when the system sounds pretty good as it is, unless/until I can better know what to expect.
Caps are also often times called smoothing caps, because they smooth out whatever varying current is going through them.
Sometimes there are diodes —> smoothing caps —> (choke) —> voltage regulator —> more capacitors at the rails.
If the cord is really better, then one would suspect that all the untoward frequencies are sneaking into the device would vanish?
Yeah, by magic, I guess. Remind me, weren’t you the one making such a big deal about taking alternative views seriously? That what you call this little outburst?
And one would also suspect that the 50 or 60 Hz would be booming out of the device if its power supply was not removing it.
Another one.
But most of the power supplies are supplying DC.
No, all of the power supplies are supplying DC. So?
What happens is, incoming AC is converted to DC via diode rectifiers. These devices allow current to pass one way only. AC being alternating this means the diodes must constantly switch on and off. This never happens perfectly smoothly. You want measurements, you can find measurements of exactly how fast and smooth diodes do this.
Their DC output then gets stored in the power supply caps. Because all components draw power in very fast transient surges, but we want them to get the same power no matter the surge, so we store it in caps. Caps are also often times called smoothing caps, because they smooth out whatever varying current is going through them.
Remember the diode switching smoothness? Turns out even a lot of capacitance cannot ever completely eliminate this. There is always ripple on the DC output. Another one you can measure.
Or you can do what those of us in touch with reality do, and try it and hear for yourself. Then you will know what you are talking about and not be reduced to schoolyard taunts.
“Detached” sometimes is followed by the phrase “with reality”
You said it. The one thing you got right. Never too late to try and get in touch with it.
On a positive note: if you really think you hear a big difference, awesome, enjoy your new 1000$ pair of power cables. Heck, I DO HEAR a difference in rca cables, copper, solid core, and silver….does make a difference.
If I had 1000$ dollars to burn, would hit several used audio shops, used record shops, and splurge on a non meat glue pair of 8 oz. Filet mignons’ and a couple Paulaner hefe-Weiss, before heading out to shop more.
If you can hear a difference, and it is for the better, sweeet! sometimes these small but expensive tweaks do have benefits. Enjoy. Sorry was so negative in previous email, cousin is a diehard tweaker with his gear, fuses, tube brands, constantly soldering new capacitors in his amps, to try to get ,….to where, I don’t know. his stereo is bada$$, yet he goes music less for a weekend replacing caps, swapping the speaker connectors, rca jacks.
He wants to do my old Sunfire, to do a power cord upgrade, no not that upgrade, he would essentially remove the cord, screw in a male socket, so the cord is removable. Thinking about it, but once inside, he will want to do all kinds of stuff. Damn, rambled again.
Try and be a little more detached, and I think you will find the logic easier to process.
^“Detached” sometimes is followed by the phrase “with reality”.^ But I am happy to move from emotion to reason. Perhaps with the measurements of the noise spectrum at the end of a good and a bad cord? If the cord is really better, then one would suspect that all the untoward frequencies are sneaking into the device would vanish? And one would also suspect that the 50 or 60 Hz would be booming out of the device if its power supply was not removing it.
But most of the power supplies are supplying DC.
I guess we can blame Westinghouse power for not having DC to DC?.
Fuse box to outlets, 150-200 feet of cheapo 20ga standard electrician wiring, yet a 500$ 1-2 foot cable will make the instruments float on a magical imaginary cloud of bunny farts, to your ears,which will send you into a musical epiphany and rapture will consume the earth. Take your hard earned money and buy more music, or speakers, cartridges, new CD player, or dac. don’t waste your money on a 2 foot shielded cable.
DIY.....Make your own, so you can experiment with all sorts of different cables and different constructions. Grab cheap Copper Electrical cables from Home Depot and try them out for yourself. Solid Copper cables in a litz construction sound very balanced, and cost of assembling one is about 60 dollars, for a 10 foot cable.
$749
World Class 6’ power cord compares to the competition at under $10,000.00 Yeah! Really
Yeah, really. $749 is "under" $10k. So is $50. So is zero. "World class" merely means compared to all free power cords made anywhere in the world. "Compares to" means "compares to" not better, just that you can compare them.
The ad in other words says absolutely nothing. All it does is play on the readers susceptibility to emotional appeals.
The "placebo" canard plays on fears just the same only different. Try and be a little more detached, and I think you will find the logic easier to process.
Core Power Technologies Diamond Xtreme 6 Foot Power Cord World Class 6’ power cord compares to the competition at under $10,000.00 Yeah! Really
It’s stuff like this that drives myself and newbies into a frenzy. Where is the outrage that a product dares compare itself with a product costing 13 and 1/3 times as much and what are they comparing?
Power cables do make a difference I’ve heard it and on surface this email either sounds like the biggest deal or biggest scam or power cables don’t really matter that much.
I have tried this power cable with 22 gauge and 18 gauge wires as well. 22 gauge sounds etched, treble is piercing and bass is affected. (At least on my system) 18 gauge sounds too thick, treble is attenuated.
I don’t know exactly why this is the case, but 20 gauge is the best, and is the goldilocks zone. I found it to be very neutral, and has fantastic resolution. The Litz construction, say over a simple stranded wire, has audibly less distortion
It seems at odds with how the power supply in the amp could be affected by it, but it is interesting that it was observed.
I have tried this power cable with 22 gauge and 18 gauge wires as well. 22 gauge sounds etched, treble is piercing and bass is affected. (At least on my system) 18 gauge sounds too thick, treble is attenuated.
I don’t know exactly why this is the case, but 20 gauge is the best, and is the goldilocks zone. I found it to be very neutral, and has fantastic resolution. The Litz construction, say over a simple stranded wire, has audibly less distortion.
You can build your own power cords for pretty cheap. Get some 20 gauge soft copper
wire, and use 6 lengths, 6x20gauge per conductor. 6
wires for hot, 6 for neutral, and 6 for ground...all braided, 18
wires total. And you have a fantastic Litz style construction, that
will sound about as good as anything else out there. DIY is the best
way to try different styles.
@avitacom - Actually I found my Audience power conditioner made a very positive improvement in my system. But I've had it plugged in for years and I am going to try going back to a straight power strip with no filtering, fuses or switches just to see how it sounds.
@jafant = Me? The thread got quite off topic, but that happens. I was asking why I don't hear an outcry from people who say power cords don't matter also saying power conditioners don't matter. If AC is AC, nothing in between the wall and the component should matter, absent something that does not allow the current to pass freely. We hear people all the time say power cords are BS, but usually not that power conditioners are BS. So that's it. We're on to the next thing, whatever that is.
^^^ Glad it worked out for you. I checked out the link but too bad it doesn't have any pictures of the cable. Could be some Chinese-made ones that you can get at Amazon for cheaper price.
Just got my new aftermarket power cord (10 awg with furtech connectors). While the cable looked impressive, I too was skeptical.
Plugged it in, and to my surprise… WOW!!!
the mid bass was noticeably more full and the bass detail was almost night and day. I’m sure my speakers were also now hitting lower frequencies. I was so impressed, that I gasped. I said to my wife (who couldn’t care less about my hifi passion), “can you notice a difference?”
She said: “absolutely. I really can. Now stop talking about your dumb cable:)”
It was so impactful that it felt like I replaced an entire component!!!
The powersupply is like a heart, pumping out blood, and the powercable is the main artery leading in to it. That`s is why the quality of this last worm is moore detectable than the rest of the circuit.
millercarbon: "I even swapped around gauge of wire with diameter of pipe. The analogy is darn near perfect. Voltage is exactly pressure. Just like water. We even call amps current.."
Yep, this is a good analogy but still most audiophiles believe they can use a bundle of tight twisted straws and still end up with the same flow-capacity as a single wide pipe gives.
miller again:
"
Fortunately I run 4ga all the way from the panel to the conditioner. So I got that one covered."
That`s a good start, but what about your low-voltage secondary side; your speakercables++
This guy… Arctic Death misspelled….probably drunk posting from what I can tell. Different folks different ways to behave while intoxicated. You guys should not give them much credit. Not worth your time. Let them be.
I like the sarcastic tone to it.It strikes a cord.
This guy… Arctic Death misspelled….probably drunk posting from what I can tell. Different folks different ways to behave while intoxicated. You guys should not give them much credit. Not worth your time. Let them be.
Unless u have 12ga from fuse box to your stereo system, power cords will be,only snake oil.
, 20ga thin basic wire from box to outlets in house, but add a 400$ power cord and the instruments are floating on a membrane of awesomness that whisks and makes everything just seem right...
give me a break. Tried power cables, same, same, same! The 12” of $400 power cable from outlet to wall with .....let’s say over 150-200,feet from basement breaker box with 20ga wire and. Zmost use thinner wire for running to outlets. Put springs under your amp and preamp to take away microvibrations which cause the sound to get mumbled, but with the $90 springs the sound just floats into my ears, like a country slow moving stream. The audio is night and day difference. The music is so liquid, and sounds s msound ch better.
One would think that they could put a scope (or A2D) on the power coming out the end of that cord… and then actually see some things that are other than 60 Hz (or 50Hz) being removed.
If I was able to see some high frequency noise on the bad cords, that was removed on the good cords, then it would be easier to imagine that that is a reason to believe in using a fancy power cable being worth having.
This post won the award for the most simpleton-minded.
Some people are so gullible, they feel the rain and open their umbrellas. Others are more sophisticated data people, they check the weather report and if it says dry, they act accordingly. Because they know weather reports are science and all the rest is just phychoacoustics.
I'm in the roofing business, and if I follow the weather reports my insurance company would be paying for a lot of interior damage.
Some people are so gullible, they feel the rain and open their umbrellas. Others are more sophisticated data people, they check the weather report and if it says dry, they act accordingly. Because they know weather reports are science and all the rest is just phychoacoustics.
@avitacom So if you want to improve the quality of current presented to these amplification devices, you would have to optimize components within the amp or preamp, the power transformer, rectifiier or voltage regulator, not add on external tweaks like boutique power cords or power conditioners. --------------------------------- Ok. A very practical advice. How come it never crossed my mind... Now. I have two amps - Lavardin IT and LTA Z40. Would you care to explain how exactly should I optimise the components within these amps and not turn these two wonderful fine-tuned devices with unique circuits into two useless boxes?
There was an auction out in Las Vegas a few months ago where they were practically giving away a whole bunch of auxiliary solar power trailers......Wish I had grabbed one!
That is bad. Very bad. This hobby is about listening and enjoying good audio, not reading some white papers and getting a hard on staring at some graphs
Obviously I fall into the data group. That is not bad, it is just how it is.
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