I think this is really a pretty unfair assessment. PL equipment is subtle at worst.
Maybe instead of making this thread about something you hate, you could try focusing on something you like. What is it about tube amps you like, what speakers are you going to drive, and what is your price range.
It is still easier on Audiogon to attract participation with passion rather than fury.
Best,
E
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@erik_squires
Erik, thank you for your response. Does subtlety befit tube amplifiers? The best ones (Western Electric) were unabashedly industrial.
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Defiant,
I'm not going to go there with you. Good luck finding something you like.
Best,
E
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I love all of the equipment that a German company makes called AudioValve.
Amazing sound, tight bass and auto bias system and I have four different models. There's a new USA distributer and he advertises them on Audiogon.
I don't know what their audition policy is but I would strongly recommend them!
If you like them I know the owner of the Company very well and I could probably get them for you
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Stereophile says their preamp is one of the best buys for the money and kills other preAmps costing 5 times their price, I know for a fact that one of the writers has some of their equipment in his home reference system. www.AudioValve.info |
One persons esthetic issues should be deemed irrelevant. And so I deem! |
Check out the tasteful and understated looks (like a Scandinavian home!) of the Music Reference RM-200 amplifier. It also sounds real good, Michael Fremer putting it in Class A in Stereophile’s Recommended Components list. |
Best tube amp aesthetics: SHINDO!!! Love that cool green finish! And impeccable internal build! |
The PL tube cages turned me off for years until I saw one real . I bought a demo Prologue Premium integrated then upgraded to Prologue Premium pre-amp and Prologue Premium mono-amps. Very happy |
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Defiant,
It would be helpful to indicate your price range, new or used amp.
Check out Audio Research VT-80.
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I think my rogue audio cronus magnum 2 is a very good looking as well as a great sounding piece. The latter being most important. Just leave the cage off of the PL |
Hmmm!!! First time poster bashing a product. Credence??? I don’t think so. |
Not sure what Line Magnetic amps you've listened to but I fully expeecty it wasn't a 518IA, a 219IA or a 508IA. If it was you have totally different listening experiences than me and a number of others |
@lalitk
Good points. I prefer vintage gear. I think manufacturers were more honest about their goals in the past.
My budget is $10,000 at most, for something really spectacular. But realistically, more in the 6k ballpark.
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@soundwatts
yes, that is a good looking machine. Can you run it on KT88s? Or do you have to use KT120s?
I don’t like KT120 as much, because they lack the historical pedigree of KT88s.
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@facten
I auditioned the LM216. It is a really good looking machine, but the sound quality was disappointing. There was even mains hum?! Also, I heard ringing.
As as regards the LM518, I remember reading a less than stellar review in the Stereophile magazine. JA found the amplifier to be noisy. While the rest of the review was passable, I have a strong preference for very quiet amplifiers.
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defiantboomerang, you must be new to the audiophile hobby. You complain about the looks of PrimaLuna products and they’re basically borrowing the same aesthetics as used by a number of high end manufacturers. For decades! And then you declare that you’re interested in amps costing more than twice the cost of a PrimaLuna. Why did you even mention PrimaLuna in the first place? Product bashing in the subject line and you're really not even interested in the product. Nice. |
Okay, I will take a bite of this troll...
The OP has phrased his request poorly. He bashes a line without mentioning if he even heard a system with said brand.
He expects everyone else to have HIS ears and perception as to what's a "decent" alternative?
Lame. A very weak first post
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@tablejockey
We can have polite disagreements. No need to call me names. I have asked for advice. Many have given valuable advice. You have chosen to insult me. No need for that, bro.
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@tketcham
You are right. I am relatively new. But I have to start learning somehow.
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@yogiboy
Thank you. Very nice amplifiers.
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Check out www.zestoaudio.com. I've had the opportunity to listen to their system several times. I have the Andros PS1 Phonostage in my system since 2012. I would definitely transition to their pre-amp and monoblocks if I had the money. I'm considering upgrading the Andros to the Tessera because I have two tonearms, both with MC cartridges. I'm kind of tired swapping the cables. The Tessera supports four connected tonearms and you can simply flick a switch. And I love the way that they look. But then again, I'd be happy with the Primaluna as well |
Defiant-Your response indicates you "don't get it" "troll" is not meant as a desparaging remark.Wait, Im explaining myself... If you can't understand what I meant by "this troll"....apolgies. We just have your words to go by, so I take it at face value. You're reading these responses, others here are essentially interpreting your opening remarks as I have. Just listen to a PL system WITHOUT the cage, it will look pretty much the same as a LM piece, then report back to give a thumbs up or down. Sound quality and aesthetics, ultimately are subjective. No one here, has your ears and perception Otherwise,research and listen to as much as possible. Consider used, and ignore listing prices, while RESPECTFULLY submitting your offer. Everything is negotiable. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll |
@tablejockey
No hard feelings, bro.
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Defiant "
As as regards the LM518, I remember reading a less than stellar review in the Stereophile magazine. JA found the amplifier to be noisy. While the rest of the review was passable, I have a strong preference for very quiet amplifiers."
My 518IA is dead quiet; and if you had any tube hum, which I haven't had, there's a hum adjustment on the top of the amp.
There's other reviews on the 518 , 219 that you might want to check out, along with Agon member commentary in the FORUMs |
@facten
Many thanks. Just two follow up questions.
* Which amp is better in your view, LM518 or LM219?
* Are LM amplifiers quality products? I am troubled by the fact that JA discovered so much noise in his review.
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Well, you could look at Rogers or Jadis. But I recommend just sticking to Rogue. |
Defiant I haven't heard the 219ia so I can't offer a personal opinion between the 2 but from reading it would seem that the 219ia has a little more refinement. From my vantage point the 518ia is a quality made product, I have had zero issues with it. Specific to the 518ia - here's the link to Herb Reichert's Stereophile Review of the 518IA - you may want to read it in its entirety - https://www.stereophile.com/content/line-magnetic-audio-lm-518ia-integrated-amplifier - but here's an excerpt from his conclusion "
But now, under full review-level scrutiny, I at last recognized the LM-518IA's complete array of virtues. It is musically alive and vigorous. It moves forward like a caffeinated child chasing a scared cat. It is strong. It has easily driven every speaker I have tried with it. It plays music with rare charm and sensitivity. Its beguiling light illuminates one of the most detailed soundstages I have ever heard as a reviewer. It is reliable: I have used and abused this 77-lb machine for more than a year and, more than any other amp I have reviewed, it seems indestructible. Here are links to 2 other reviews http://wallofsound.ca/audioreviews/line-magnetic-518ia-integrated-amplifier/https://witchdoctor.co.nz/index.php/2014/06/line-magnetic-lm-518ia-integrated-set-amplifier-review/In the witchdoctor review he claims that he had some transformer hum; I can honestly state that I have not heard any in the almost 2 years that I have had the amp |
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To the OP, I remember that look but it appears they have reverted to a more traditional design. Anyway, to each his own. Have you checked out decware.com? Look there and see if they have something more to your liking. And 'no', I am not compensated by, or affiliated with, decware...just in case anyone reading this thinks otherwise. |
I think there are many tube amps out there. It really depends on your budget. Also I respect your opinion on LM Audio but you are the first person I have heard who has stated they sound terrible. I have the 216ia and it sounds better than Rogue or Primaluna to my ears and fits my budget. If you have easy-to-drive speakers, take a look at Border Patrol amps. |
something you hate is a fine topic - to fix this, either put them in a custom made box that looks like the LM's you like the looks of or repl. with something you like better in looks and still like the osund of
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It's a good performer. If you don't like the way it looks, listen with the lights out. What is the point of investing in great-performing equipment, anyway? Is it for you to stare at or are you actually going to listen to music?
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I saw the PrimaLuna amp in person about a month ago. Quite frankly I thought they were very classy looking. To each his own I guess.
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The cage is not affixed or welded . Simply take it off and put back in the shipping box if you do not like it's looks ! |
I highly recommend that you visit Dave @ Audio Doctor in Jersey City, NJ (even if you have to hire private jet to get there).
Can’t imagine the two of you not hitting it off.
DeKay |
@mdeblanc
Now, these are some good looking amplifiers. Much more revealing of their functions. Thank you.
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@bpoletti
I am a very visual type. If I think that my equipment is an eyesore, it spoils the music. I guess you are lucky not to have this issue.
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@falconquest
Agree to disagree. I saw it too and my reaction was different.
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@maplegrovemusic
It looks much better without the cage, that is true. But the fact that it is so shiny/smooth and that all transformers are in the same housing puts me off.
To see where I'm coming from let me give you an example of an amplifier that I find beautiful: Audio Research Dual 50. Now that is a beauty! Form follows function to the max. Or a Marantz 8b. Just gorgeous!
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To me, it seems like you're just NOT interested in the music.
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@bpoletti
Not cool, bro. I am grateful to those colleagues who posted useful advice. You could have done the same. I'm sure you know a lot about audio.
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The Primalunas, without cages, are great looking. I wsh quicksilver’s preamps looked as good as their power amps |
I would check out the Rogue Cronus Magnum 2 or the Leben CS600, both in my view look great and sound great. |
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The Primalunas just need to lose the cages.
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