I made my own with a tube rectified polypropylene filter capacitor pi filter choke power supply for both channels (crosstalk due to low series equivalence resistance of the final 100 microfarad filter capacitor a small fraction of an Ohm) so I don't have to put up with future replacement of electrolytic capacitors. I used this to feed both channels of NOS #26 Arcturus triodes. The transformer for both cathode heaters has to be center tap grounded to prevent hum. Mundorf cathode bypass capacitors and a capacitor output to the main amplifier and you are ready to go. Also an Alps 100k volume control sounds much better than a stepped attenuator.
It is every bit as good and probably better sounding than anything you would pay thousands of dollars to buy and it has none of the embellishments you don't want.
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I find myself in the camp that wants the DAC outboard, but the preamp is where the analog and digital meet on the way to amplifier and speakers. If you are considering a DAC an ‘extra,’ then you must be looking for an all analog system, which many people feel is the best way to go. My advice is to consider carefully which features you really need. For instance, I didn’t think I needed a balance control until I bought a power amp without one. I also became very frustrated with the types of controls avaible on some pared down versions of equipment. I’ll not name names, but rotating knobs are very convenient for changing source selections. Another issue is being able to view the way your equipment is set, how much volume? Any balance? Any tone control invoked? Which source is currently selected? You don’t know how much you miss this information, until you can’t see it, or you have to get out a flashlight, get down on your hands and knees and get your eyeballs two inches away from the face plate to determine the state of all the settings just mentioned. Again, I’m not naming names, but I have one in mind. If these things are important to you, in-home trials, careful thought, and lots of trials of inexpensive used gear seem in order. Just my two cents worth. And I agree with the fellow who said he thought adding a DAC adds $1,000.00 to the price of a $6,000.00 preamp. Of course, audio engineers will tell you that how many of these user controls are implemented can have a detrimental affect on sound quality. Choose wisely.
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I'm like you, I prefer a "pure" preamp with the least bells & whistles, but ultimately the choice you make comes down to the sound, and not how many add-on's.
I'm pretty happy with my Parasound JC2. The only add-on that you don't need is the Home Theater Bypass. For me the HT bypass is a must have. That actually limits my list of available preamps.
Anyway, good luck with your search.
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The Schiit Freya + has no bells or whistles and gives you huge flexibility - passive, active SS or active tube. And it's under $1k, yet very well reviewed.
The tube option lets you listen to some edgy recordings that are otherwise hard to listen to. And you can roll tubes.
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Just watched Passion for Sounds YT video comparing the Spring (sans preamp board) to the Schiit Yggy, which is ~ $1000 less, but he preferred it.
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Holo (Audio?) Spring KTE ~ $4000
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The cost of features is too much if you don't want them. This true at all price points. The cost of features in a preamp would depend on the quality of those features. This differs widely between units.
Too many quality DACs available at all price points to want one internal to a preamp unless simplicity is a major concern. I prefer to keep digital components electrically isolated from amplification.
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The Quicksilver Line Stage is built like a rock, with clean, simple, point to point wiring. It is not expensive but brings amazing value. I upgraded the caps for a few hundred dollars. It can be found used for about $1k.
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Well, as you surmised. no easy answer, or is there?
My system is cd only. I have the Audio Alchemy DDP-1 + PS 5 (outboard PS) when available MSRP was $1995 + $695. The combo can be found ~ $1000-1200. After 2 years I am still very happy with it, BUT, have wondered about R2R dacs. There is ONE I read about recently, with an optional built in preamp in the $5K range. Sadly, I don't recall the model/brand. If I do, Ill update. Maybe someone will chime in. I watched it on YouTube
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Or….you could use the DAC - Streamer as a pre-amp…
Since the recent APEX Upgrades to the DCS line of DACS, there are a few Bartok’s out there for good prices on an amazing sounding DAC.
Or… get a used ARC Ref 6 - maybe one of the finest Pre-Amps out there and work your way up the DAC ladder over time.
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If its a $6k pre, an add in DAC probably adds around $1K to the retail price - that's very much a ballpark estimate. However, the critical point is that unless you need dac / streaming functionality, then you are better spending your money on a preamp that doesn't have those features.
It's worth taking account of your long term plans for your system. If you plan any digital upgrades, then you may end up with a separate DAC and a redundant DAC in your pre, and a less good pre than you would have had if you had forgone the inbuilt DAC in the first place.
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Have a look at a canary c803 there is a nos one on eBay at the moment it is a four chassis design so true channel preamplifier. Each channel has its own power supply and each channel has its own volume control. The volume control is a stepped resistor ladder. Is is at 7500 USD. This is at the very top end in my opinion. So that would be what I would like if I wanted tubes.
Solid State my favorite is Ayre k1xe preamplifiers. Same thing it has a stepped resistor ladder for a volume control.
Now to your question minimalist design s are generally more money than ones with a bunch of extra junk on them. That being said there are some cheap minimalist design preamplifier s that only offer one feature which is low sound quality.
Regards
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Integrated might be a sound option (hehe)
Seriously, I stumbled across Odyssey Audio a couple years ago ... thank the Lord!
Give them a look!
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If a preamp with an outstanding volume control as well as the ability to adjust the amount of gain on each individual input is important, consider the Coda 07X. It’s volume control is the best in my limited experience.
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I had a Belles Aria integrated amp and loved it!
@rustler , why not go integrated? Do you already have an amplifier?
I’ve heard Audible Illusions preamps are nice. If going separates and just starting out, I’f look into tube preamps, ideally with a sub out as well
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I agree , some of the best sounding preamps are minimalist designs . I prefer separate everything as it opens upgrade paths and helps put off obsolescence
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Not only do the add-ons cost more money but the extras CAN cause sonic distractions as well. This is the premise behind stand-alone units. Many expensive preamps don't include tone controls, headphone amps, phono inputs, etc.
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Its a hard question to answer, and you need to be specific about which add-ons. A DAC, after all, is an entire additional component. On the other hand, the chassis, jacks, power supply etc are far and away the most costly part of any component - so there is clearly economic of scope at work here. But a good DAC is not cheap to add. A cheap DAC ...well . is :-)
IN small volumes everything costs if its done well. But lot fo the cost is a fixed investment in engineering and tooling.
As you see, its not a simple question. Just buy what gives you what you want, and provides good value (sound/dollar). If the bets sound/dollar has gee-gaws, who cares?
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Spending more $$$ doesn't really add more bells and whistles. There are a lot of budget preamps with tons of features and there are tons of expensive ones without many features. I ended up getting a used McIntosh c47. I love the McIntosh sound and it can do everything the newer and more expensive models can do. The C53 has a few more inputs but the sound quality to my ears was identical, so I couldn't justify spending more then double the price.
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Hard to answer your question but that’s probably a good guess of if it were not including DAC. The thing about preamps is they are becoming more like DACs with volume and inputs Some DACs even have analog inputs.
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Do you want a classic stereo preamp or more of a DAC that serves as your preamp?
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I have to have remote, XLR in and out along with RCA inputs and outputs . Bare bones other than that . No internal DAC , would probably get an outboard phono stage ….
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I guess I wasn't completely clear in my initial posting. I'm wondering how much add-ons add to a preamp's price. For example, is a $6K preamp with a DAC and streaming really a $4K, $4.5K, 5K preamp. I'm asking just in case I find something I like but it has extras, I'd like to know exactly what I'm paying for.
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Take a look at the Aesthetix Pallene you can get it with line leveler or you can add a phono,DAC or upgrade the headphone amp you can add them at any time I have one just with line level it is a new preamp for Aesthetix it is not on their web site but it is the preamp from the Mimus integrated amp a few of us on Audiogon have it
Enjoy the Music
Tom
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Belles Audio Aria Signature preamp would be perfect. Talk to John Rutan at Audio Connection.
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I’ve heard great things about Belles, possibly look into Don Sachs,Aric Audio, Space Tech Laboratory, and I’m sure there are many more smaller builders that make some wonderful gear without many of the features you don’t need. I was in the same boat. I have no need for tape loops, HT bypass. In my world, remote wasn’t even something I needed to have.
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I would give the Musical Fidelity Ms8 preamp a hard long look.
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Belles Aria Signature pre fits your desires (it does have bypass, but simply do not use it). Straight forward pre that is only 2 channel analog w/a MM phono included, and that is where David put all his emphasis, as usual.
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Just buy what you want. It's easier to find lack of features rather than any uneeded attributes.
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rustler, if you don't want or need any of those bells and whistles, why are you looking into units that have them? that doesn't make any sense. look for a simple pre-amp. there's a messload out there. |
Not set. I'm just wondering if a preamp listed at about 6K also has DAC HTBP Streaming capacity, etc., how much of that 6K is for the stuff other than a line preamp?
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