Help me find a pre-amp

Why not a Mcintosh preamp to pair with your McIntosh amp? It has tone controls that will allow you to adjust for those shitty quality recordings and will have synergy with the McIntosh amp. Also look into warmer cables. 

 Im a very happy owner of the Modwright LS 100. Top notch company too.

Why not Mc pre?  No reason other than my initial thought was some thing more exotic might be better.  I’ll give it an audition however.  Thanks

@rkfaberdds Did you mean a Mac 611? The 612 does not come up in a google search as an amp. If yes, are you looking for a balanced preamp?

The preamp is really important. It will set the central sound quality. It is important to get it right. Mac vs Rogue is different. Mac is not detailed enough for me and Rogue not musical enough. I would recommend auditioning an all Mac, Rogue, and Audio Research system and see which sound family you like most. I personally prefer Audio Research or Conrad Johnson. Both of these companies really shine in preamps with great detail, natural, well balanced, and musical sound. 

" I want the shityy recordings of 70s & 80s rock to come to life & fill the room(Rush, Van Halen etc)"

" Source will be purely digital (Qobuz) streamed from Aurender A200 "

Unfortunate you're not spinning the original  LP's. Moving Pictures/VH debut outstanding via period press. 

Far from terrible recordings.

The LS 100 was my daily driver for a long time and was really good with many different amps. Dan Wright is great to work with. There's a pretty good deal on one right now, no relation with the seller:

When I settled on Atma-Sphere amps (first the M-60s and now the Class Ds) I eventually found an Alma-Sphere MP-3 which, unsurprisingly, has a bit more synergy. The MP-3 is generally more expensive than the LS 100 but I found my MP-3 for less than $5K; they come up occasionally if you're patient. Ralph Karsten is also very supportive.

My spare now is a LTA MicroZotl MZ2S which is surprising close to the MP-3 and can be found in the $1K range. LTA also makes higher end preamps which are less than $5K used and likely better than the MZ2 but I haven't heard them.

There are a LOT of good preamps in your price range.

Backert Labs!

My bad:McIntosh 312

I Truly appreciate everyone’s input here.  Backert looks like another interesting one!  Keep em coming

If you have $3,800 to spend, get a used Conrad Johnson ET5 preamp and buy a Telefunken 6922 tube from Brent Jessee.  If you can stretch to $7,000, buy a used Conrad Johnson GAT1 and don't look back.

@yogiboy A big +1

Although it doesn’t look like a Backert design, Bob has been working on my PS Audio PV-12L to the point that very little if any circuits from PS remain. I am fortunate to live within driving distance of Bob Backert and he has incrementally improved my line stage to the point that it is clean with incredible dynamic drive, due mostly to his proprietary “Green Force” power supply. A true gentleman who really listens! as he develops new circuits.  

Try a BAT VK-33SE tube pre or a VTL TL5.5 tube pre. They're a step above the rest in that price range. The BAT has a mono switch that sounds better with some material like King Crimson Red album for example. maybe Rogue Audio RP7

I just bought a used PS Audio, BHK Preamp that I hope to have by Monday or Tuesday. It’s a hybrid with a couple of tubes for the input stage that can easily be rolled to give you a warmer sound, so you can use either of your amps.

All the best.

Supratek’s are very musical sounding and quite affordable for what you get.

@OP. I am also looking for a new preamp.  My power amp is a BHK250. I have a PS Audio BHK preamp and I just finished home auditioning an LTA microZOTL preamp.  I prefer the microZOTL - it has a more delicate, but full smooth, sound.  I can hear more detail at a lower volume; voices are more natural; and instruments sound more realistic. The microZOTL is a great preamp and I may buy it.  

Today, I received a recently purchased Luxman CL-38uC preamp.  It is a beautiful piece of gear.  I plan to spend the next couple of days auditioning it and then decided between the microZOTL and CL-38uC, and sell the BHK preamp.

LTA has a very good 14-day home audition program, and you can get a fully loaded new one for just north of $5K.  It may be worth your while to look into it.  

Don’t forget to sprinkle some magic fuses and power cables in. Magical thinking is key!

+1 million Backert!

For $5K just have a customer preamp built for you.

Happy Listening.

@rkfaberdds

I also have a  PS Audio BHK preamp. I love what it does to my system.  I can immerse myself in the music and float away for hours.  It's like meditation and all is good.  No drugs needed.

I’ve had a Krell Illusions ii, Zesto Leto, Coda and now the PS Audio BHK Pre.  Synergy is so important, my amp is a Krell duo 300xd.  I also tried a Lumin P1 to use as an all in one solution, pre, streamer, DAC.  My favorites are the PS Audio and Coda.  LTA makes outstanding gear and I’m sure there Pre’s would be a home run, again, assuming it pairs well with your amp, gear.  Suggestions on looking at a Mac pre make a lot of sense.  Aric Audio if you are looking for exotic, custom, high quality but made right here in the USA should be on your short list.  If you search this forum and others, you’ll find many raving about the gear, owner builds and designs all the gear, will do custom builds.  
 

Good Luck, 

Problem is they are all good at that price range 

you really need to audition at home to decide

Yes they will all sound different but they are all good for $5 grand

Good

luck Willy-T

rkfaberdds,

We are in the same boat, I am in the process of choosing a preamp as we speak, and am making my decision this week....stretching to $6,000 will bring a few really good preamps into the mix. The list I have as of this writing after adding and subtracting some options.

(1) Aric Audio Motherlode II $5,125 or Motherlode XL $6,125 - https://aricaudio.com/

(2) Backert Labs Rhumba 1.4 $5,000 or used Rhumba Extreme 1.3 $5,000ish if you can find one. I was able to find a new Rhumba Extreme 1.4 for a discounted $7,300

https://backertlabs.com/linestages-no-phono

(3) Atma-Sphere MP3 Mk 3.3 $5,650 -  http://www.atma-sphere.com/en/mp-3.html

(4) Linear Tube Audio MicorZOTL $5,750 with balanced inputs and Level 2 upgrades

(5) Audio Research Ref 5SE - Used around $6,000 if you can find a good one

Best of luck!

Vthokie, that is great list of candidates.  Curious if you have auditioned all of them and what are the other main components in your system that you’re pairing with?

rkfaberdds,

So far have auditioned: Rogue RP9, Audio Research Ref 5SE, and BAT VK-80. Tomorrow I am going to audition the Backert Labs Rhumba 1.4 and the Rhumba Extreme 1.4. Auditioning has been more difficult than I thought, because of differing amps and speakers at stores. The valuable piece is that each dealer has the Rogue RP9, so I can compare each preamp to that model to get a baseline.

I also had 2 6SN7 based preamps, the Aric Audio Motherlodes, and the Don Sachs Revelation; I have since dropped the Sachs for a variety of reasons, in favor of the Aric Audio....and it will definitely be a finalist for me. Aric has been a dream to deal with, honest in his opinions, and extremely responsive. I want fully balanced design, so the Motherlode XL is what I am considering.

I mean how is the Aesthetix, Calypso not in your sights? They're still a few bucks under $5K new aren't they? I have a Calypso Signature you & might find pre-owned for $5K-ish. Should definately be on your list - up your tube game with some great NOS Telefunken/Siemans/Amperex and you're in business

bgross,

I am sure that the Aesthetix is a great preamp, but I couldn't consider everything....I'm guessing there are a dozens of really good preamps, something for everyone.

I’d be very interested in how the high value tube preamps mentioned above which are also on my short list compare with something like the Holo Serene KTE at $3100. The assumption is that the Serene would lack tube magic.  I get that but based on some of the very positive reviews that are out there it may still be worth considering.  It seems only a very few have been able to do this comparison.

I found myself in a very similar predicament... Huge fan of both Rush and Van Halen, as well. An even bigger fan of Stuart Jones' T-7s. But it seemed with my current set up, which is powered by a PrimaLuna integrated, liked to reproduce more intimate music such as jazz combos, classical quintets, etc. with very satisfying detail. Every so often, though, I need to rock! And the PL wasn't getting me there... low dynamics on great songs such as 'Barchetta' won't do. John, at The Audio Connection in Seattle, recommended a modded Cary SLI-80 integrated would give me the dynamics, smoothness, AND detail I was looking for - he sent me home with a loaner(as I live locally). I didn't want to give it back! It'll be the next upgrade to my system and I'm in good hands as John has never steered my wrong. Fwiw, I got to meet Stuart, who sadly passed away last year, and at the time he recommended a Cary tubed pre-amp to go with the Rogue Dragon as his recommended components for my eclectic tastes. Good luck on your search and call the Audio Connection, John's a great fountain of knowledge.

Well Snowdog, we have these people in common.  I bought nearly all of my gear from John & I pop in to see him when I’m up in SEA.  Stuart picked up my T7s from SoCal and upgraded them in his workshop.  So you understand these are unique loudspeakers for everything I have into them and how sonically excellent they are for the $$.

John indeed recommended the same gear to me, but I would like to hear it first.  He has nothing to demo.

BTW, I’ve kind of dismissed Cary bc -rightly or wrongly, I assume a lot of my $$ would be going into phono stage related build. I’ll never see ROI from that.

Yup Conrad Johnson 

A lot of good suggestions.

In my experience the Backert sounded like AI - very dynamic, but artificial sounding.  A sax should sound like a sax and the difference between a piano, harp and harpsichord is easily confused with the pre.

I passed on the Pre in favor of the Aesthetics Calypso...which gets the timbre and dynamics right...as did the Atma Pre - just not as deep a stage.

Another recommendation for Backert Labs.  I recently purchased the Rhumba Extreme and a sax sounds very much like a sax on my system.  It's also very responsive to tube rolling.

Rkfaberdds,

I just finished my preamp listening journey, and I'll try to get my notes out later today......I'm not great at putting that into words, but I'll give it a go. Was a fun experience....and I've ordered my preamp.

So I pulled the trigger and got an LS100 for $2k on here.  The combo of good reviews, low price and aesthetics got me.  I ordered some Sophia Elec blue glass 6SN7 tubes and a NOS Mullard 5AR4 rectifier.  Should be sonically excellent for for the MidFi (circa $20k) system I’m building.
 

Next purchase will be Rogue dragoN and an Aurender A200(unless someone talks me into a Cary DMS 700).  And new cabling other than some older Shunyata stuff I have.

 Congrats.  think you'll be happy. Let us know what you think after you get some time with it.

The importance of synergy between amp and preamp cannot be overlooked.  Whether or not a preamp, of the same brand as your amplifier, is considered the absolute best at its price point, it will 9 times out of 10 sound the best when partnered with its matching (same brand) amplifier.  Go with synergy!  

Here is what I think about the LS100 now that I’m running it with the NOS Mullard & Sophia Electric blue tubes: 

1)Resolution is stupid good as is soundstage..very 3D

2)Female vocals like Fiona Apple, Jennifer Warnes & Nora Jones are just so present & perfectly reproduced.  You could listen all day.

3)Those 70s & 80s recordings that I want to fill the room certainly do.  I get a good bit more volume & extension even though I’m still using my old B&K ex4420 while I await the arrival of the dragonN (Tuesday). Rocking out already with Zep, Rush & Van Halen.

*Im demoing an Aurender A200 with Qobuz as source.  Hopefully I can try a HiFi Rose and another lower price unit just to see, but there’s nothing not to like about the Aurender other than it’s lack of HDMI & it would be the most expensive component in my rig.

**My Chapman T-7s remain a super loudspeaker.  For the $5-6k I have into them, they do everything very well & I simply do not want for anything more-even after listening to Magico & SF offerings 

 Nice to hear.  Enjoy!

@oldschool1948

Where can I purchase a Luxman CL-38uC preamp new or used but preferably NOS with US voltage preset?

@tyray Used ones are hard to find.  Call Alex at Alma Audio.  Alex is a good guy and I think he'll work with you on the price. 

Having said that, I recommend the LTA microZOTL preamp.  The microZOTL is lower priced, and it sounds noticeably better than the CL-38uC and my BHK Signature.  I bought the microZOTL and sold the CL-38uC.  I'm going to keep the BHK Signature for now.

With the microZOTL, the sound is more delicate; I hear more micro details; instrument separation is better; cymbals decay longer; chimes sparkle; instruments and voices sound more natural; and there’s no harshness or listening fatigue. PRAT is superb.

Sugden Masterclass LA-4

@oldschool1948 ,when I read your post I was actually ordering (2) Telefunken ECC801S / 12AT7WA’s and had just talked to Andy at Vintage Tube Services about sending my (1) Sylvania 6SNLW metal plate tube back to him so he can send me back (2) matched and balanced Sylvania 6SNLW’s for my MicrozotlMZ3 I had bought from Nichols at LTA. When I first called him to inquire about the MZ3, after our conversation he told me he had one for sale in trade that was two months old and basically brand new. He told me the price, saved me a lot of coin and I pulled the trigger.

At first I didn’t think the MZ3 would work with what I wanted to do because so many users of that kit used it as a headphone amp. But the MZ3 was described as a MICROZOTL MZ3 HEADPHONE AMP / PREAMP / INTEGRATED AMP so I gave it a shot. Turns out it had everything I needed for my rig. (2) outputs and (3) inputs. I hooked up my Clayton Audio amp, (2) PSA subwoofers, my dac at the time, Technics turntable and there was (1) input left for my future streamer. That was all I needed.

And when I first played the MZ3 I was taken aback by the black background and what was coming out of my speakers sounded just as you described. And to me it was Ethereal in the way this thing reproduced music. And this with the stock tubes and not broken in.

Below is some lite reading I found on the MZ3 while trying to figure this kit out.

Review: Linear Tube Audio MZ3 - July 30, 2019 Darren Henly HiFi Reviews The LTA MZ3 is a Class A push-pull amplifier that utilizes two amplification stages (12AT7 input tubes and 12SN7 output power tubes) and no feedback. Of course, the patented David Berning ZOTL circuit is central to the design.

From @twl here on audiogon: Black glass KenRad 6SN7s take the cake

Give me the Sylvania 1940s 6SN7 WGT any day. IMO the best there is. If you really want to hear what a 6SN7 can do, just listen to it as an output triode in a Berning MicroZOTL, driving a pair of Lowthers direct. This is where you really hear the soul of the tube, with nothing between the tube and the speaker but a few feet of wire. Nothing after it in the circuit at all. Pure 6SN7 coming out the single drivers. The Sylvania does it all. And the sound difference was amazing. The observations made by others regarding the delicacy of detail, midrange liquidity, strong bottom end, crystal-clear high end were all there, far better than any other tube I’ve used in it.

Now perhaps with preamps, where it is combined with other circuits, and passed through a power amp on the way to the speaker, there could be some "synergy" considerations that I didn’t encounter on my system. The Berning MicroZOTL is the only amp ever to use a 6SN7 as an output triode, as far as I know, and it uses it in a push-pull arrangement with each 1/2 of the twin-triodes inside the single glass envelope performing the push-pull functions. Linearity is excellent with this configuration, and gives terrific frequency extension on both ends, and of course, no output transformer to saturate or cause hysteresis problems.

Now, as I stated, this is a different application of the tube, but I did not get as good overall sound from the Black Glass KenRad in my application, although it was very good sounding with them. The KenRad, Sylvania WGT, GTA and GTB, RCA Black Plate 5692, all were far superior to the stock Sovteks that came with the amp, and would all be a big improvement. I was more disappointed with the 5692 than anything, as it was well balanced, but did not have any real "twinkle" like these others had.

And there is a definite difference between the Sylvania stuff, as the years went by. The older is decidedly better, and after the 1st couple of years of the GTB, it was a bad downhill slide. The 6SN7 W and WGT from the 40’s are the best, and then the 50’s, and then the early 60’s chromedomes in the GTA version, and finally the early GTB.

I think the MZ3 is a keeper.