Had Three Different Speaker Thoughts; Now A Fourth

Try the Fritz 2 ways. Stellar values and prodigious bass in the right room.  Home trials.

The fourth option a friend mentioned and it has appeal is this... I also own a pair of Polk RTiA7 towers. They are a really nice cabinet with a nice build that house a 6.5 and two 7 inch drivers and a tweeter. He said I should think about replacing the drivers with Scan Speaks and upgrading the crossovers.

Thoughts?dadork07-06-2021 9:16pmHi
I justt completed a new xover for my 15+ yr old Seas Thors,
MTM,
Had Hovland caps,
Went with a a;; Mundorf. High end
I found some gains in the Millennium tweeter (has 4 caps, = cost me a bundle) and for the dual W18E001’s, made some mod to the cap, went from the original 8.2uf Hovland>> to a Mundorf Silver Oil 8.2($150ish?/) and a Mundorf SESGO 2.2($100 each!!) The W18’s now have rock solid punchy bass.
The higher end Scanspeak 7 inches are super woofers, but quite the price.
So on the 7’s you havea choice
The Seas Graphene $500 each
Of
Scanspeaks many options, some go as high as $800 EACH!!!
Both labs offer incredible new midwoofer designs,
The Seas Graph has a titanium voice coil, which IMHO is the best bet for upper mids to say 1500hz.
For the tweeter section, I have no suggestions.


https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/approx-6-7-woofers-scanspeak/scanspeak-ellipticor-18we/8542t-0...

Thoughts?

Well, you’re considering a monitor with concentric dynamic drivers, a floorstander with a horn midrange, a quasi-ribbon dipole panel speaker, and a more conventional floorstander you already own but you’re gonna swap out drivers and somehow change the crossover.  So yeah, I have one overriding thought — what the hell are you even looking for???  I mean, you’re all over the map here sonically man!  What specific improvements are you looking for over your 606es, and what sound characteristics are most important to you?  Some kinda focus is needed here to make any meaningful recommendations.

soix makes a good point. Each of those speakers has its strong points. It depends on your priorities.

Fritz is a good recommendation.  All the drivers he uses are from Scanspeak.  Search this site for plenty of recommendations.

The Razz is a nice sounding dynamic speaker and will not be overkill for your room.  Your amplifier complements them perfectly.
They improve greatly over the current Klipsch Heritage sound because Volti has done an amazing job at controlling cabinet resonances.    

Replacing drivers and crossovers to an existing cabinet is not a trivial operation and will be more work than imagined, results are not guaranteed either- drivers are tuned to the cabinet specifically.  
Voicing crossovers is a science and an art and the heart of any speaker.  You need to know what you are doing to get the best sound.  

If you have the Razz in your sights I say go for them.  A better sounding speaker than any Klipsch heritage.  Dynamic, musical and exciting with plenty of detail.   

+1 Fritz. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hn3h3Tk6PzE&ab_channel=DH

+1 Volti! Option 4 is just a waste of time and money!

The Razz is certainly the safe bet. It will give more people what they are looking for in a speaker without having to dance around deficiencies. I would not think about Maggies until you get to the 3.7i. Tannoys are good speakers but overpriced for what you get. Seems to be the way with our British friends. I expect more from the people who brought us the Spitfire and the XK-E. 

If you can get a good price on a used pair Volti and take the money saved for DSP they need it.

https://www.stereophile.com/content/volti-audio-razz-loudspeaker-measurements

I would go for the volti it will not be too much for your room because a large speaker loafing along is better than a small one straining to fill the space.

I currently have B&W 606 S2 bookshelves and I am thinking about doing something different, I haven't been overwhelmed by their build or performance.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Possibly the most over hyped speaker ever, 
Bose being #1 snakeoil-ed. 
B&W a  close 2nd place.
Is that company still in business? 
Hard to imagine those things  continue to sell.
The used market is flooded with B&W's. 

LMAO.
https://www.bowerswilkins.com/home-audio/nautilus

Maggies + sub or subs every time.

Looking at this from a different, more elementary angle, you should strongly consider the width of your room.  You say it's 12' wide, so unless you absolutely hug the walls with your loudspeakers, and the best people do not, the width of your speaker choice definitely matters.  If you hold them just 12" from your sidewalls, and they're over 20" wide, like the Tannoy and the Mangepan, they're going to be about 6' apart.  For me, that's not enough.  A tower that is 8" - 10" wide is probably a better option.  The Volti Razz is 15" wide, the slimmest of your first three choices.

djones51, That is not a terrible performance for a speaker in it's price range although the overlap at 4 kHz might be a problem in some situations you should be able to deal with it without resorting to DSP.
Having said that, there is no system alive that careful DSP can not improve and in very subtle ways. There are some things that DSP can not do. It is not an excuse for poor equipment, set up and room treatment. It is nothing short of a miracle when it comes to subwoofer management. 

I've been working to pay for these musings so forgive me for not responding sooner. @soix I'm looking for magic of course! I'm looking for imaging and soundstage, coherency, presence, smooth solid bass, dynamic and fun.  I live in the sticks and have never heard an electrostat or planar, never heard Tannoy and limited experience with horns.  I've gone batty trying to get my bookshelves and subs integrated, it finally sounds decent but not great. Not really any further ahead than when I was using the Polks which honestly punch above their weight. I think it's got a lot to do with timing and placement in my current set up. @erik_squires I've read up on the Fritz' in the past and I will revisit it for sure, just not convinced on the whole bookshelve / sub combo anymore. @avanti1960 I tend to agree with you after some sleep and thought. @jasonbourne That's the concensus. I can see it in the case of the Thors as @mozartfan has done but probably not with the Polks. @roxy54 I guess I did need to be a bit clearer! @kcpellethead  my house is a square within a square meaning my front wall opens into the dining room. I can place my right speaker where the wall would be without sidewall relections which allows me to put 8' between my bookshelves.

I’m looking for imaging and soundstage, coherency, presence, smooth solid bass, dynamic and fun.

Given this I’d recommend saving a ton of hard-earned $$$ and try a pair of LSA-20 Signatures available here from the manufacturer for only $2299/pr. Read the reviews. They’ll be a huge improvement in every parameter over your monitors, and they have enough bass that you’ll likely not feel the need for a sub anymore. If in the unlikely event they don’t absolutely knock your socks off (but they will) you can return them, which is a really nice option especially when you live in the sticks. Best of luck.

Ilumnia Vocalis MK2. Look at: Ilumnia.be

Have your dealer set up the Maggies in your room and give them a few days to listen to a wide variety of your favorite music.

If you do not like them IN YOUR ROOM, buy something else.  However, be sure to critically look at your hardware as well.  You will hear whatever it adds or subtracts from the music with these speakers, so it may be time to change some of your components, or not!

Cheers, and happy listening, which is what it is all about!

I think given the financial commitment you are going to make, that a road trip is in order.  If you have never heard Maggies, you definitely need to hear them.

I say this because people often are drawn to them, or not.  In my case, I knew they were for me immediately.  You nay or may not have the same reaction, but the only way to know isin person.  As an aside, on our first listening trip my wife liked them so much she was good buying 20.7a, we ended up with 3.6s and are content to this day.

Good luck on your journey, research, research, research!

Why would you use a book shelf speaker for such a large room?

Great German monitor ,the Elac Vela BS 403 it has the latest 
very refined Jet5 AMT tweeter , 6.5 inch sandwich Diamond Aluminum, paper mid Bass driver ,down firing Port, nicely done Xover even Van Dan hull Carbon  internal wiring , made in Germany not in China like the vast majority ,even B&W, Monitir Audio ,ps,audio, and paradigm Revel Sonus faber all China,for under $3k you are lucky to find anything 
fritz good drivers low end Xover and wiring owned $2500 I know first hand , I or others remove the driver to check ,I rebuild my own xovers many times . The Elac the exception to the rule
excellent paint finish and between $2-2500 with very good fast tight Bass mud 40 Hz which is very deceiving for a speaker not real big and the AMT tweeter is very fast but very refined and controlled.

Ever take a 3 day vacation?

How far are you from Denver? 2 hour flight. $300.

Why not go to RMAF in October and hear a few things?
People will say it is terrible way to judge how a speaker
may sound at your home. But it a good way to get familiar
with the different sound of some wide ranging options
you have thrown out. BTW I would take a listen to Spatial
open baffle products too. Tannoy is usually a no-show 
at these events but dealers do exist. Seattle has Hawthorne.

I own Tannoys and will be keeping them. 
Whoever you chose be sure to get a 30 day trail.

@chorus I'm in norhtern Michigan so my options driving are Detroit, Ann Arbor, Grand Rapids and maybe Chicago. 
The first three are limited and limited lines as well so Chicago might be my best choice. Not thrilled about going there with all the violence but I definitely have to hear some things before I invest. I'll have to research online and see what shops carry what. Doubt if I'll find Tannoys or Volti's but...

Definitely go to Chicago.  Some of the best audio dealers in that city are in the suburbs, so you're not actually in Chicago proper.  I'm in Kansas City, and I've made several trips to Chicagoland to hear many great loudspeakers.

Tannoy Eaton is very large standmount. unlike what someone else said, it is not overpriced for what you get. It is rather worth every penny. Out of all you mentioned, I’d go Tannoy and not look back. You could also make the bigger jump to the floor standing Tannoy Cheviot or Arden. If it were me, I’d dump the parasound and get something like a sugden, pass, accuphase or luxman class A. Maybe even a line magnetic.....

Regarding Maggies, consider the .7s instead. They’re better balanced, more efficient, and more dynamic than the 1.7. Despite being 2-ways, the .7s give up nothing in midrange quality compared to the 3-way 1.7s. The only real advantage of the latter is possibly a higher max SPL (at the cost of more juice).

Maggies tend to sound best with an isosceles triangle setup, the panels placed on the short side. That might be an advantage in your 12’ wide room.

Haven’t heard the Voltis but they might be a good option since you’re coming from the B&W sound.

The Spatial Audio M5 Sapphire is another you should consider. Spatials have a sound that falls somewhere between an planar-magnetic panel and a conventional box speaker. Not as much soundstage depth and not quite as transparent as Maggies but they’re higher in detail and bass extends lower. Good tweeters in the Spatials, the quality level of which are typically found only in >$6K/pair speakers.