Funny how streaming/digital still chases that analog benchmark.

+1 skypunk!

......but with a streamer plus a $15/month subscription you can access unlimited HD music.  Who’s ahead now?  

You can make an argument for each format, but in the end one chooses what works for them.  

Using digital, I can use DSP to pervert what the musician intended and produce a frequency response like you get from vinyl. I can set up a number of different DSP profiles for each track to replicate the way the sound worsens as the needle heads towards the hole. I can add a sample of surface noise. I can add random pops and clicks. I can make all lower frequency sound mono instead of stereo. I can make these pops and rumbles a little more annoying each time I play the same album. I can sequence the music so that after 20 minutes I have to get up and fiddle about a bit. If I want to give Qobuz £20 per album I can, even if I only listen to one of the tracks once. I could pay large insurance premiums to cover the cost of losing my vinyl in a fire or theft.
But I’d rather not.

".....but with a streamer plus a $15/month subscription you can access unlimited HD music."
Depends on what your definition of "HD" is.

Too bad everything is not available on vinyl, but the sad truth is that it's not. I too enjoy streaming music from my collection as well as Qobuz. It sounds very good and I love the convenience of all that music from my listening chair. No, it's not quite vinyl, but it is still very good.

Oz

It’s great that you enjoy analog, but your need to rant against digital indicates a little insecurity. Do the rants make your vinyl sound better?

I would just enjoy your music however you please and allow others the same courtesy.

Just FYI, vinyl sound is not the goal for most digital listeners.  We are looking for something much better and I think we will inevitably get it.

A example of $15 a month put to good use.

Someone recommended this album, Dominique Fils Aime', her "Three Little Words" album. I used Qobuz to give it a listen, enjoyed what I heard , so then purchased the album off of Amazon as a preorder due in the states in about a week. My point is, I listen to digital but still try to support the musician buy purchasing their music in vinyl format.

bluemoodriver-

Using digital, I can use DSP to pervert what the musician intended and produce a frequency response like you get from vinyl. I can set up a number of different DSP profiles for each track to replicate the way the sound worsens as the needle heads towards the hole. I can add a sample of surface noise. I can add random pops and clicks. I can make all lower frequency sound mono instead of stereo. I can make these pops and rumbles a little more annoying each time I play the same album.

Okay, okay, you're a pervert. Got it. But there you go again, trying to make digital sound like analog. Which is the point. It's never the other way around. Joke all you want, you know it's true, the standard is analog. Digital is for when you just don't care that much that it sucks.

@tomcy6 .
Rant?
Stating my pinion.
Insecurity? Clearly you are the one with the issue.

As I stated I enjoy both formats. I have a Simaudio 280D and the 260D transport $5000.00 in my digital and that is probably more than you do. So dump another $3500 in for good measure.

I will post what I like and you can opine about what you like.

Analog is the benchmark and you can not deny it.

later insecure digitalia boy.

please quit taking yourself so serious and stop being easily offended.

I would just enjoy your music however you please and allow others the same courtesy.

Did I deny you that right? I do not care if you enjoy midget porn. I was simply stating fact.

Just FYI, vinyl sound is not the goal for most digital listeners. We are looking for something much better and I think we will inevitably get it.

I said analog is the benchmark and it truly is. When you go see a band is it live analog or is it dead digital?

putz

Insecure digitalia boy

Har har 
I love it

@testpilot ......but with a streamer plus a $15/month subscription you can access unlimited HD music.  Who’s ahead now?  

I am,  I am into sound quality. It is quality not quantity kind of like the Airforce in Russia lots of cheap junk, One F18 can shoot down 16 of them at once..

Also remember those digital files are created from an analog master then butchered  err digitized by so called digital audio engineers (an apple app I am sure).

You can make an argument for each format, but in the end one chooses what works for them.  

@skypunk wrote

I am, I am into sound quality. It is quality not quantity kind of like the Airforce in Russia lots of cheap junk, One F18 can shoot down 16 of them at once..

If sound quality is your priority, why aren’t you using a R2R deck and playing master tapes?  Oh btw, the Russians in the early 80’s had a little fighter jet that you may have heard of named the Mig29. 

Funny how manufacturers of streaming and digital gear continues to chase that elusive analog sound.

I reject this assumption in it's entirety.  There's no such evidence of this being the case today.  Given this, the rest of the OP's argument is moot.

Analog sound quality varies quite a bit depending upon the vinyl quality and the setup quality of each particular turntable/arm/cartridge.

Analog does not always beat all digital, especially high Rez PCM and SACD playback.

Each can sound great and very enjoyable.

I like analog for music recorded before digital, and digital in the modern digital era.

The benchmark is only the best sounding recording in a particular format!

Analog is in the rear view mirror as far as I'm concerned. No disrespect for the medium because I have owned some of the best and it was very very good. But (goodness knows) with the likes of Tidal and the capabilities of quality DACs and access to virtually unlimited Master Quality recordings, streaming is a slam dunk... unless there's something in the equation that  has more to do with the intangibles than the enjoyment of a wide spectrum quality recorded music.

@erik_squires Yep now that you have chirped off my night is made. Analog is the benchmark and so is concrete.

@testpilot . IDK why are you not listening to a R2R deck? So now you have made my point, analog is the benchmark period. Mig29 jeez and how many? Not many they churned out 15’s and 17’s , 21’s like VW did the Bug.

Digital is as good or betterthen analog IMO a $3k network switch is a rip off 
$300 maybe , in a custom built Pc buy the latest Jcat usb,and ethernet card for streaming linear power supply ,a final touch audio cable for usb to dac.
spend at least $200 x2 for ethernet cables modem to router and from computer switch hub to computer and need a good dac once there you get very high quality playback ,it costs noticeably more to get digital to 
meet or surpass analog . Please remember digital is always progressing analog is not ,a record 12.5 bits tops ,digital true 20 bits max far more information.much better S/N ratio , dynamic range, Low Bass response ,no pops and clicks, no maintainence.  And R2R dacs ,
as well as vacuum tube dacs , or discreet opamps give you the option to change the sound exactly to your taste .having been into digital since the 80s  modding them totally transforms them 
And not a lot of money is needed , under $2k for a very respectable build to -$15k just as turntables and cartridges can cost Big bucks .myself change cables or electronics until it sounds right .no system is great without fine tuning.

@skypunk, more Mig29’s were produced than all variants of the F18.  

I don’t own a R2R due to the high cost, limited selection, inconvenience and readily availability of quality of tapes.  In addition, I was not the one who stated that their primary goal was fidelity over “all” other aspects of playback including available music. 

Master tapes on a R2R?
MehI got better things to listen to on my R2R.
I prefer not to miss music worrying about the stupid format.

@testpilot 

@skypunk, more Mig29’s were produced than all variants of the F18.

Exactly my point quantity over quality....jeez!

BTW I am streaming Nick Caves new album and it sounds wonderful on my Moon 280D through my Raven Blackhawk.

Frag out!

You digital dudes sure get your digitalia twisted in a knot. 
Move on...

3500 for a freaking network switch that you can buy from net gear for 50 bucks???

It seems that audiofools and their money are very quickly separated.

I have a new handy dandy audiophile product that I am going to start selling... its a power plug that guarantees fresh electrons into your power supply....PLUS.....each electron is vacuume treated. Hint...its a 2 dollar power strip.

See how impressive that audiophile speel sounded?

To answer your question in a reasonable fashion....digital is an approximation of an analog signal. An lp is not. Yes, digital will sound "fine" but an approximation will never fully sound like the real thing.

Those of you who are streaming fans can disagree to your hearts content, but MY ears know the difference. Yours may varry.

Pass the popcorn, this is going to be fun.

@lexx21  “audiofools and their money are very quickly separated”

audiofools? So why are you here?

oh to get info so you don’t become an audiofool?

@tooblue.  That is why I tossed the grenade, to have fun!

I really enjoy all audio formats I just wanted to be entertained by this thread.

Sorry nerds.

testpilot:

"but with a streamer plus a $15/month subscription you can access unlimited HD music.  Who’s ahead now?"

I am...

In that I have pretty much have everything I care to listen to on LP and CD, and I rarely like anything new* that I sample (last 10+ years*).

I somtimes seek CD versions of my favorite vinyl music simply for the convenience of the format.

I also have gobs of LP's that never made it to the digital realm.

If one it interested in contemporary/recent music I get your drift, but this does not (so far) interest me.

I sample mainly from YT, plus a few other sites.

DeKay

@skypunk....I enjoy great sounding audio just like the next bloke. But think about it....ANYONE who knows networking would see right through that bs. Its the "special" individual who would see an add for that 3500 dollar switch and think "its audiophile grade... I have GOT to have me one of them" when ANY network switch will do. Think about it...audio does not use a lot of bandwidth in the networking world. Want a top of the line switch for audio streaming? Cisco 2900... totally configurable switch...20 years old...will handle any digital audio stream you can put through it.

I admit that I do have a knee jerk reaction to stupidity in advertising, especially for companies that try to obviously rip you off. That must be from my EE degree and 27 years in the IT business.

My system consists of a CJ mv55, a proton receiver acting as my preamp, project se box 2 phono preamp. I almost have enough saved for the technics 1200g, after which I save for a dynavector 20x2 and a mcintosh c2300. All well thought out purchases which I can sonically justify buying.

Its the stupid stuff designed to rip people off that makes me grow as thorns and sets them to grinding.

"Joke all you want, you know it's true, the standard is analog."

Hanging out with stuffy old people much?

The standard has, for decades now, been digital. 17-year-olds do not even know what you are talking about.

@glupson.....uh no. It may have been the "standard" but that does not make it "better".

Hell dude... not having air bags in cars was "the standard" for decades when the technology was available for 30 years. Does that make it "better"?

lexx21,

The statement was that "the standard is analog", it was not about quality (which gets debated ad nauseam anyways). Prevailing standard has been digital for a while. What is better is another topic.

*10 @lexx21

@gulpson Frag Out.....lol digitalia is twisted.

now lets talk fuses and cement speakers...

@gulpson I did not say in my OP “apology is the standard”

Funny how manufacturers of streaming and digital gear continues to chase that elusive analog sound. I thought digital was better?

But analog is the core of even digital, and digital is then converted to analog.

don’t like the subject or thread then why are you here??

skypunk,

Classy gentleman as always.

By the way, you accidentally posted a picture of the wading pool among pictures of your system.

So skypunk, your ambition is to be the obnoxious drunk of Audiogon?  Congrats.  You've got a good start here. 

And you chose such a unique way to demonstrate your bravado.  Analog is better than digital?  Never heard that one before!

My suggestion is for you to grow up.  You'll find it makes music and all kinds of things better.

Everyone hears differently.  We build a DHT DAC and a excellent phono stage.  Our DAC typically sounds better than most TT set-ups we compare it to.  I love to see the expression on a persons face when there analog set-up just does not sound as good as our DAC.  BUT even when we use a JC Penny TT ( we think CE made them back in the day), the sound beats our DAC every time.

Happy Listening.

My St Louis office was about 20 yards from where most every F/A-18 made before the E/F/G....and about 2 miles from the new factory, know lots of F18 drivers and more ( F-22 etc... ), i can think of very very few who with stupid bravado would go up against an SU-27 at moronic 18;1 odds.....

You should be able to learn something ( from your “ grenade “ post, read about Red Flag....even the highly vaunted F-22 has limits and vulnerability..... )

will your ego allow you to learn ?????
ps i ran the Boeing F-22 wing aft fuselage factory  production and other fun real world stuff......

@tomic601 LOL ego has nothing to do with it.

Matter of fact my team builds all the bearings in the landing gear of you F22 and the high speed bearings for the turbines.  Boing is one of our OE Aerospace accounts. We also made all the bearings for both Mars rovers and the booms on the ISS.

So if you want to talk “real world stuff” I am all in.

BTW Aerospace is in the tank and I am heading up a team in renewables next Wind and Solar. 

Ah yes, the media wars. I have a pal thats a media hoarder. He buys vinyl, CD, SACD and is signed up to a couple streaming services and also has a large digital library. He complains about gaps in streaming catalogs as a reason why he buys obscure SACDs and CDs. To each his own. I have a vinyl and streaming rig and that's about it. He brings over an SACD player and a hard drive and we can kill a day comparing the nuances of the same song on 4 different medias, sometimes we start swapping DACs to get really neurotic. Its a lot of fun but man that's a lot of variables to sort through to make a sound conclusion, especially with scotch and bourbon involved. Bottom line in my book is, if you limit yourself to one source (who cares which one) you are missing out on something. 

BTW F22’s are built here in Ft Worth too and I work on the v22 project in Amarillo with Bell. Helped them set a couple of speed records for AC Type. Real engineering and tribology.

tin bangers.

Frag Out!

ego is telling you to dig a deeper 18:1 hole.......

with all that bearing expertise, you should be building a better tonearm........

cant engage reverse gear can ya ?.....

Red Flag been around since Top Gun.

SU27is a remarkable aircraft.

skypunk,

You are an amazing man.

Is bragging on an Internet audio forum about provenance of parts for military equipment acceptable, or is it considered at least slightly silly?

Have you ever considered hitching a ride on a Mars rover?

The bees versus the spiders all over again. But at least that argument was done in style. 
I stand on the digital side btw. Though I do like a good tuna fish sandwich every now and then
 

@glupson 
 I was conversing with another member and not you.

as for your other comments I have tuned you’re comments right on out. At least I post my system. 

Later glupson.

Is this a digitally remastered copy of the original digital vs. analog argument or just a re-issue of the original analog vs. digital argument? I can’t tell the difference.

@tomic601 no freaking money in tone arm bearings. Now skateboards maybe. Tonearms are the shallow end of the pool, you know the end you hang out in.

We only do TRB, Gears, Drives and Linear....

skypunk,

"I was conversing with another member and not you."

You were doing it in an open Internet forum. Expect it to be read.

How does a person with so much expertise in bearings succeed to be unbearable? It must be hard work.

"...the shallow end of the pool, you know the end you hang out in."

This one?

skypunk's System rev 4 - Virtual Systems (audiogon.com)